Conference noted::sf

    I just finished RED PROPHET myself.  Very good.
    
    I was not able to figure out who taleswapper was, care to enlighten
    me?
    
    By the way, I doubt that that was the devil.  Sounded a lot like
    the serpent from the Garden of Eden.  Red Prophet also has a clue
    that hints at that.

    re .1:
    
    > By the way, I doubt that that was the devil.  Sounded a lot like
    > the serpent from the Garden of Eden.
      
    Isn't the the serpent just the form Satan took in order to tempt
    Eve?
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

re: .1 - identity of Taleswapper

Spoiler warning

At one point, Taleswapper recites one of his poems, "Oh rose, thou 
art sick", which was actually written by William Blake.

/jlr

	I enjoyed Seventh Son also and plan to read more of Card.
	*But* - did I miss something?  The ending seemed to leave
	a lot of loose ends.  Like there were 200 or so pages
	missing.  Are we to infer "continued in book 2"?  If
	so, I'm a little peeved.  I kind of like to finish a
	book on the last page.  I read "The Mirror of Her Dreams"
	(by I forget who) and after 687 pages it ended with (sic) 
	"This concludes this book, for the conclusion please buy the
	sequel".  I think there's a dent in the wall where the book
	hit.  If I wanted a cliff-hanger I'd watch a soap opera.

	Ok, I guess that's enough of a flame on the subject but am 
	I the only one or do other people find this irritating, too?

    Yes, Alvin Maker is still only a kid when 7S ends, so there's lots
    to come.  The first sequel is "Red Prophet", which apparently deals
    more with an Indian magician than it does with Alvin.
    /jlr

"Seventh Son" does have a particularly weak ending.
There are far too many loose ends for a standalone book (which I won't
discuss for fear of spoiling).
In a lesser book, I really would have been pissed.  From Card, in this
book, I find it in my heart to forgive.
It would have been nice had the cover or the blurb indicated that this
was the start of a series.
At least P J Farmer (Riverworld series) and L. Ron Hubbard (the dekalogy)
had the decency to warn us first.

However, it is a great book.  Be forewarned it won't wrap up at the end,
but read it and enjoy.
Card writes to present a warmth and feeling I've seen nowhere else.
"Seventh Son" is very similar to "Speaker for the Dead" in this regard.

- tom]

    Re .2:
    
>    > By the way, I doubt that that was the devil.  Sounded a lot like
>    > the serpent from the Garden of Eden.
>      
>    Isn't the the serpent just the form Satan took in order to tempt
>    Eve?
    
    (some spoilers here)
    
    
    These 2 are equivelant only if you accept that the Bible recounts
    storys of a religion that is genuine, and I doubt that Card is going
    to portray the Bible / Christianity / ANY religion in that light.

    The distinction is one of religious veracity.  That is, to say that
    someone or something IS Satan implies that there such a thing as
    Satan (ie. the near-omnipotent, near-omniscient, evil adversary
    of a Biblical God).  To say that someone or something is the serpent
    from the garden of eden, does not really admit to the truth of the
    religion itself.
    
    I suspect that the 'Evil' being Card is portraying will not be shown
    to have any true religious role as I doubt that Card is going to
    admit to any 'true' religions.  But he may say that this person
    was 'the basis' for the serpent in the garden of eden.  Thus this
    would put the "Garden of Eden" in the category of Mythical/Legendary 
    story.

    --  Barry

    I just finished reading 'Seventh Son'.  I enjoyed it a great deal
    and intend to read it again soon (I hope).  The imagery and the
    details of the assumed history and 'laws' are terrific.  Card does 
    not do the easy thing and present his world to us on a platter (al 
    a Hogen, who I also like) but unveils it a morsal at a time. 
    
    I get the impression we are reading about a parellel history that
    branched during the English Civil War.  This is one of the reasons
    I want to read the book again.  Does anyone have any ideas?
    
    BTW One nit.  I loved Card's map of the new world but the name 'Canada'
    would not have been in effect until 1867.  At the very least it
    should have been called 'Kanata', which the former is a corruption
    of. And I doubt that is what the French would have called it.
    

    I enjoyed both "Seventh Son" and "Red Prophet."  The first part
    of "Red Prophet" overlaps the timeframe covered by "Seventh Son,"
    but from the the red prophet's perspective.  I love the way Card
    writes.  Maybe it's more fantasy than science fiction (oh no let's
    not start that again) but whatever it is, I just can't wait for
    more of the Tales of Alvin Maker.
    
  --Simon
    

    
    The third part must be out in hard-cover, 'cause the SFBC is offering
    an omnibus edition this month.
    
    DFW

Re .10
    
>    The third part must be out in hard-cover, 'cause the SFBC is offering
>    an omnibus edition this month.
    
Yes, the third volume, 'PRENTICE ALVIN, is already out; I saw it at the
Walden Books in Leominster yesterday.  Price was either $17.95 or $18.95 --
I can't remember which.  The price of the SFBC 3-in-1 edition was $9.95,
which is cheaper than all three paperbacks will be, even after you pay
SFBC shipping and handling.

    Has anyone got any idea what happened to the UK version of Red Prophet? 
    The imported US version was on sale for a while in some bookshops, but
    they were apparently forced to stop selling it, because of some legal
    matter.  Apparently, they're only allowed to sell the UK version.
    
    Unfortunately, the UK version seems to have disappeared!  Where did it
    go?  I think I'm going to have to emigrate across the pond, just so
    that I can get books within a decade of them being written...
    
    Frustrated,
    
    Mat of the UK,
    *:o)
    

    Read "Prentice Alvin" over the week-end.  Card is rapidly becoming my
    favorite contemporary author.  This is one of those rare series that
    just gets better as it goes.  Actually, I wasn't particularly impressed
    with the first book I ever read by Card.  But after the "Ender" books
    and the first three "Alvin Maker" books I simply can't wait for his
    next effort.
    
    One measure of a good author that I use is how much effort it takes to
    put a book down once I start reading it.  This one kept me reading till
    I literally couldn't keep my eyes open, then to pick it up upon waking
    the next morning to finish it.  I literally got lost in his world and 
    found myself wanting the next book when I finished.  Card has given life 
    to his world, much the same as Alvin gives life to an inanimate plow. 
    His version of "magic" is one that fits his world naturally.
    
    "Prentice Alvin" deals with slavery, and the psychological and physical
    treatment of blacks by whites in much the same manner as "Red Prophet"
    dealt with the treatment of reds by whites.  Much of his alternate
    history seems to have a basis in the real world, at least as I
    interpret reality.  His descriptions of the thoughts and feelings of
    the characters seem somehow more real than most.  His characters aren't
    simply good or bad, they're a complex product of their environment same
    as in real life.  His way of dealing with how people justify their
    actions, either good or bad, leaves me thinking how much this guy
    understands human psychology.
    
    But enough of the accolades.  I'd urge anyone looking for GOOD fantasy
    to read the Alvin Maker series (and for that matter, the Ender Wiggins
    books too).  They touch the heart as well as the mind.
    
    ... Bob

    I thought 'Prentice Alvin' was better than 'Red Prophet',
    less mysticism.
    
    Anybody know when the next book is due ?
    And is there another Ender Wiggin story coming ?

	A few years ago, I heard Card joke about wanting to do another 
book in this world about Ender's children but being afraid to do it, because he
would *have* to name it "Children of Ender", but that then he might have to 
write "Ender Messiah", "Chapterhouse Ender", "God Emperor Ender", and God knows 
where it would all end.  :-)

	In all seriousness, I did get the feeling that he really did want to 
write another one someday.

Tracey

    Scott has been talking about "Ender the Traitor" for some time.  I
    don't know when or if it will ever come to be.

    Reading this topic and its replies got me enthusiastic enough to
    re-read my copy of Seventh Son.  I agree with all the comments on its
    ability to draw you in, and I am awaiting the sequels eagerly (here in
    Australia, we tend to lag a little in publication dates).
    
    One thing I'd like to mention in reply to .3, concerning Taleswapper's
    identity.  I didn't think it was a mystery at all, as, in my copy at
    least, Card himself says, in the acknowledgements in the front of the
    book, "And, though he is long dead,, I owe a considerable debt to
    William Blake (1757-1827), for writing poems and proverbs that came so
    perfectly to Taleswapper's lips."
    
    Also, in chapter nine, where we are introduced to Taleswapper, during a
    flashback discussion with Benjamin Franklin, Ben says "If one of your
    prophecies comes true, Bill Blake, then I'll believe it, but not
    until."
    
    I realize I'm probably nit picking, but, as I said before, I didn't
    think it was a mystery.
    
    
    regards
    
    
    ....klaas....
    

I finally managed to read SEVENTH SON before I lost the book again (this is the
third copy I had to buy, must be the Devil's work, matey!). While I had kind of
shied away from it for awhile because of that fantasy thing, I knew that when
I did read it, it would be good. In fact, it was fantastic! A true joy to read.
One thing I kind of liked is that nothing really *ugly* happened to anybody.
Card has a habit of putting his characters through horrific events. A little
Pollyana every once in a while is nice!

The ending was quite annoying. At this late date, knowing that there were two
more books, I was both peeved and relieved. Peeved that it ends so arbitrarily,
with so much left to tell. Relieved that I could go out and get more without
waiting! One thing that really does tick me off is it seems like he is 
manipulating his market. The ending is clearly a buy-the-next-book thing, from
a guy who put out a new version of A PLANET CALLED TREASON. Did he really
feel that compelled to rewrite and republish it? Maybe he just has an 
avaricious agent; I can't believe someone who writes the kind of stuff he does
would deliberately milk us that way. After all, writers are all thoughtful and
kind, and agents are all slimy and greedy, right? ;^)

>       <<< Note 746.22 by ABSZK::SZETO "Simon Szeto, ISEDA/US at ZKO" >>>
>                         -< Maps in a Mirror (again) >-
    [other stuff]
>    Treason was a somewhat hastily revised version of A Planet Called
>    Treason, pressured by his publisher (St. Martin's Press, in this case,
>    not Tor) in the face of the commercial success of Ender's Game.  As a
>    result, only the opening was revised and the rest was merely edited
>    "heavily" so that the result was "no longer embarassing."  Card would
>    have liked to rewrite the story with "many more characters and subplots
>    that would make it one of [his] deepest novels instead of shallowest."
>    However, we'll not see it happen because he said a third version of the
>    same book would be "too absurd to contemplate."
    

    In topic 1052 a new series by Orson Scott Card is being discussed.
    What happened to the Tales of Alvin Maker?  Was Prentice Alvin the
    end?
    
    --Simon
    

Re .20

>    In topic 1052 a new series by Orson Scott Card is being discussed.
>    What happened to the Tales of Alvin Maker?  Was Prentice Alvin the
>    end?

No, PRENTICE ALVIN was not the end of the series.  There will be at
least two more volumes to come.  However, Card is not ready to write
them, and so won't be writing them until he is ready.  In the mean time
there are four more volumes in the "Homecoming" series -- I know he's
written at least two of these, and possibly all four.  What comes next
is unknown -- he could get back to the Alvin Maker series, or he could
write the next volume after XENOCIDE.  He's aware that there are a lot
of people out there eagerly awaiting the next Alvin Maker book, but that
book just isn't there in his mind yet.  And we'll have to wait until it is.

Is there anything new since the last note (over 18 months ago)? Or is he 
attempting to a Patrick Tilley & wait 5 years 'twixt books?

Chele

    Next book please........
    
    Monica

What is Mr Card _doing_??? (apart from Patrick Tilley impressions)
Has anyone any news?  That barrel of beans is probably going to be empty soon!



Chele

Re .24

ALVIN JOURNEYMAN has been turned in to Tor, and will, I believe, be
published in hardcover sometime this fall.  I'll try to remember to
post here when I see I definitive schedule for Tor's fall list.

Thankyou thankyou thankyou!

I don't really expect him to come out with another book in that series, though
it'd be nice.  What do you say about a Super Character?  Perhaps a "biography"
of Alvin after he's "dead" would be possible, though, by that kid?

Re .26

ALVIN JOURNEYMAN is on the schedule for hardcover release from
Tor books in September 1995.  Three and a half months to go....

-- Andrew

	... According to what Card said in 1986, he was planning on seven books
in the series.

Tracey 
(Who got to hear Card read Part of Seventh Son at that con)

When Card was working on the fourth Alvin book (which has been turned
into Tor, as someone else mentioned), he said that there would only be
one more book after Alvin Journeyman - five Maker books in total.

At that time he said book 5 was his next project, so presumably he's
working on it now.

As an aside, the fourth and last Ender book is also in preliminary stages
but is on the backburner, at least until Alvin is finished.

	Peter,

	(currently reading Earthfall, with Earthborn next in line)

This is fantastic news!  I can't imagine how he's going to do this.