Conference noted::sf

    	I would say Tom Swift is one of the definitive starts for children
    in SF; or at least they used to be.  They're a bit dated, but they
    do have a certain charm (probably nostalgic).
    
    	One of the first SF authors I remember reading was Ray Bradbury,
    specifically THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES.  I noticed how he was one of
    the VERY few SF authors whose works were considered "literate" enough
    to put in school English books.  I would like to think that times
    have changed enough that SF is now considered "good" literature.
                                                 
    	Larry
    

    How about Hienlien's juvenile stuff?  I've been a real R.A.H. fan
    since way back, when I was reading stuff like:
    
    Have Space Suit, Will Travel
    Podkayne of Mars
    Citizen of the Galaxy (does this count?)
    The Rolling Stones
    Starman Jones
    The Star Beast
    Rocket Ship Galileo
    Space Cadet
    Time For The Stars
    Red Planet
    Tunnel In The Sky
    
    Not sure all of these count as 'juvenile' (heck, I still enjoy them
    today!), but they are good books for kids (too).
    
    Willie

    	How could you forget ORPHANS OF THE SKY?  That too was an early
    SF novel for me.  Its implications - that the peopel on a generation
    starship could forget their mission and the fact that they are on
    a ship - still impresses me today.
    
    	Larry
    

    I dunno how I forgot Isaac Asimov (writing as Paul French) and his
    David Starr/Lucky Starr series:
    
    David Starr, Space Ranger
    Lucky Starr and The Pirates Of The Asteroids
    			Oceans Of Venus 
    			{one that I'm missing, dunno the name}
    			Moons Of Jupiter
                                                              
    

    I will second the recommendation of Heinlein's "Have Spacesuit, Will
    Travel."
    
    I also recommend "The Witches of Karres" by James Schmidt, which might
    best be described as "science fantasy," since we have aliens and space
    ships and all that, but the witches of the title have very magical
    powers indeed.
    
    I think Asimov's "I, Robot" makes good reading for early teens, though not
    pitched at them.
    
    How about "Mistress Masham's Repose" by T. H. White?  In it, the
    heroine (a girl of about ten) discovers a colony of Lilliputians living
    near her home.  This is also midway between sf and fantasy, since you
    CAN'T just scale humans down like that, but White much enlivens the
    story with meticulous working out of what life WOULD be like for humans
    of that size, square-cube law and all (up to the point where it would
    make human life impossible).
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I remember "The Wonderful Flight to the Mushroom Planet", and at
    least one sequel (?).  Thanks at least for the author's name, if
    we're thinking of the same books. (In my case, this was about 30
    years ago!)  One of the characters was a Mr. Bass (somehow related
    to basidiomycetes, which is a species (?) of mushroom)?  I'd assumed
    these books were long out of print, and nevere bothered getting
    an out-of-print dealer to initiate a search.
    
    len.
    

    While I don't want to restrict people from mentioning books they
    read as a kid (after all, I did phrase it that way), I want to
    point out that I was really intending this as a discussion of
    books specifically written *for* children. But feel free to
    mention whatever you want.
    
    re:.1
    
    The Tom Swift Jr. series was a childhood favorite. I must've read
    each one about 20 times. Around 1980, I made the mistake of reading
    the last three books out of a friend's set while visiting for a
    week (I stopped reading the series before these were published,
    so I hadn't read them before). They were *awful*. If they didn't
    take only an hour or so each to read, I wouldn't've made it
    through them. I said to myself, "I don't remember these as being
    this bad. I'll have to re-read one of the earlier ones as a sanity
    check." So, I picked up one that was one of my favorites, and it
    was just as bad. You can't go home again.
    
    re:.6
    
    Yes, those are the same books. The character was Tycho Bass, and
    there are actually five books in the series:
    
    	THE WONDERFUL FLIGHT TO THE MUSHROOM PLANET
    	STOWAWAY TO THE MUSHROOM PLANET
    	MR. BASS'S PLANETOID
    	A MYSTERY FOR MR. BASS
    	TIME AND MR. BASS
    
    They were still in print from Little, Brown as of the early 80's,
    though I don't think they currently are. Being a collector, I'm
    after first editions, though.
    
    --- jerry

    
    Anyone remember Scholastic Book Service?
    
    When I was small I got two books by Lester Del Rey from them.  *The
    Runaway Robot* and *Tunnel Through Time*.  I think they're both
    aimed at children (given they have an interest in SF stuff) and
    they're pretty well written.  At least I think so.  I looked at
    them again recently after not having opened either in about ten
    years, and they were still fun to read.
    
    I don't know where you'd get them today.
    
    DFW

    	I bought TUNNEL THROUGH TIME from the same service, and I enjoyed
    it too!  Although it was your standard scientist builds a time machine
    in his home and takes his motherless children on a time trip type
    plot, what I remember being pleased about was that when they journeyed
    to the age of the dinosaurs, they were NOT attacked by a Tyrannosaurus
    Rex (thought they did see one). :^)
    
    	Larry
                             

    For a childhood favorite, how about the "Big Little Books"?  I read 
    numbers 1-16 as a kid, some of which I still have.
    For some pre-teen and young teens, I recommend Edgar Rice Burroughs 
    "Tarzan" series and also his "John Carter of Mars" series.  Along the 
    same genre, there's also Robert E. Howards "Conan" series.
    
    Mike_L

    Then there are the "Danny Dunn" books.  I've forgotten the author. 
    Danny Dunn is a high-school kid whose widowed mother is housekeeper or
    landlady to an eccentric professor.  The professor, in a grand
    tradition of stereotypical scientists, was about as technically expert
    as Mr. Spock or Dr. Who.  Each story revolved around some invention or
    discovery of his as exploited or mucked up by Danny, his girl friend,
    and his best buddy.  The actual invention might be totally implausible,
    but the consequences were worked out sf-ishly and much real science got
    mentioned along the way.
    
    I remember the following titles:
    
    	Danny Dunn and the Antigravity Paint
    
    	DD and the Weather Machine
    
    	DD, Time Traveler
    
    	DD and the Smallifying Machine
    
    	DD and the Homework Machine
    
    There were several more.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I think the first SF I ever read was John Christopher's series,
    "The White Mountains", "The City Of Gold and Lead", and "The Pyramids
    of Fire" (I think those were the titles).
    
    Following fast on their heels were works by Jules Verne and H.G.
    Wells.  C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia are more fantasy than SF,
    but they fell in around this time, too.  

    -Jody
    

    does anyone remember the "REVOLT ON ALPHA C" i don't remember the
    author
    but it was a neat replay of the american revoltion, you know no
    taxation without representation.  i just remember the young
    protangonist commenting on how primitive the colony was when he
    first arrivide because they still used concrete...also i think
    the planet was like earth's in the age of the dinisours so
    he gets a chance to see a few from a futuristic hovercraft.
    fun book for a kid, a coming of age story for the boy and the colony.
    pete
    p.s. thank God for the weekly reader book club, who first got me
    hooked on this reading for pleasure jones!
    pps speaking of jones the first rah i read when i was a kid was
    starman jones, what a rush it was going thru everything he wrote.
    always wanted to be a rah hero!

    How about "The Borrowers"?  This was a series of four books about
    tiny people that hid in houses, stealing safety pins for swords,
    living luxuriously in the walls, and so on.  These were *fun*. 
    I used to pretend that I was a borrower, sneaking around table 
    legs, climbing up string.  
    
    There was "The Borrowers", "The Borrowers Afloat", "The Borrowers
    Aloft", and "The Borrowers Afield".  I don't know if I've got the
    titles completely right, or the order, but that's the basics.

    I can also recommend the Heinlein juveniles, and I too devoured
    them as a kid.  Looking at them now, though, they seem to have a
    strong and deliberate political slant.  Almost all of his heros
    seem to struggle against vicious and incompetent statists and
    bureaucrats.   That might be why so many sf fans seem to be
    libertarians; they were exposed at an early age.   Does anyone
    know if Heinlein had political education in mind when he wrote
    them?  Lord knows he became didactic enough in the novels he wrote
    in the sixties. 
    
    /jlr

    re:.8
    
    Actually, both of those del Rey's (and a handful of others) were
    ghost-written by Paul Fairman.
    
    re:.11
    
    The Danny Dunn series was by Jay Williams and Raymond Abrashkin.
    I'd have to check to be sure, but I believe there were 15 of them
    altogether. If you remember the Danny Dunn series, do you also
    remember the Miss Pickerall series, by Ellen MacGregor?
    
    re:.13
    
    REVOLT ON ALPHA C was by Robert Silverberg.
    
    re:.14
    
    The Borrowers series was by, if memory hasn't failed me, Mary
    Norton.
    
    --- jerry

    
    No one seems to have mentioned books by Madeleine L'Engle:
    
    	A Wrinkle in Time
    	The Wind in the Door
    	A Swiftly Tilting Planet
    	Many Waters
    
    and a number of others.  They're a mix of science fiction and
    fantasy, and I still find them interesting.
    
    >M

    
    How could I forget the Danny Dunn books!  Danny Dunn adn the Homework
    Machine was the first time I'd ever heard of a 'computer.'  That
    book is one of the reasons I'm sitting here now.
    
    Those were great.  My hometwon library had a whole slew of 'em.
    
    DFW

    Re .16
    
    I never read the "Miss Pickerel" series, though I remember that the
    worthy lady wound up in outer space on at least one occasion.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I remember A Wrinkle In Time, were the others sequels, and if so,
    where do I find them?
    
    Willie

    Yes, there are two, possibly three sequels to "A Wrinkle in Time."
    I think they coincide with the titles listed above.  Seek them in the
    children's or young adult sections of bookstores.  You might give
    special attention to religious bookstores.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    I would recommend the following two series to any "serious"
    child reader of around 10-15 years (or the young-at-heart):

    The Chronicles of Prydain, by Lloyd Alexander
	The Black Cauldron
	The Book of Three
	The Castle of Llyr
	Taran Wanderer
	The High King

    The Dark is Rising, by Susan Cooper
	Over Sea, Under Stone
	The Dark is Rising
	Greenwitch
	The Silver on the Tree (I think)
	...more?

    Having just re-read the Prydain stories within the last year,
    I'd guess that they could be read aloud to a younger child.
    I found the characters a little irritating this time 'round,
    but _Taran_Wanderer_ was *much* better than I remembered.
    (Wasn't some of this on TV last year?  I have neither
    children nor TV, so I didn't see it.) 

    I haven't re-read the Cooper series since I was a teenager
    myself, so I'm going on a fuzzy memory of having liked it
    then.  I'm sure of the titles of the first three books
    (although not the order) but not the fourth.  I think there
    were only four books, but I'm not sure of that either.


    re .-last several

    Yea for Wrinkle in Time sequels!  I discovered these when I
    was in-between domiciles in college and staying with a friend
    who had three children (ages 7, 9, 12).  She was reading the
    entire series aloud to them, and I listened in.  What a great
    study break! 


    re .0

    Thanks, Jerry, for coming up with the author of the Mushroom
    Planet books.  I hadn't known there was more than one.  Must
    look for these next bookstore trip ... 


    -- Linda

re: .22
_Silver on the Tree_ was the last book in the Susan Cooper series
...the fourth book was the Newberry award winner, _The Grey King_.

re: .others

I saw one of the Mushroom Planet books at New England Mobile Book
Fair, either the first or second.

In addition to Tom Swift, there was Rick Brant, whose family lived
on an island in a sort of pre-60s "intentional community" with a
bunch of other scientists.  More "high tech" than overt science
fiction usually.  Both TS & RB were from Grossett & Dunlap, i think.

Heinlein's juveniles, especially _Tunnel in the Sky_ and _Citizen of
the Galaxy_ were better by far than his adult books (except maybe
_Waldo_).

Edgar Rice Burroughs (and some of his contemporaries like Otis
Adelbert Kline and A. Merritt) is more oriented toward adolescents
than children (heavy hormonal angle:^)).

Andre Norton (prior to _Witch World_) was also especially good for
children on the threshold of adolescence, with the theme of personal
growth usually getting equal billing with the adventure aspect.
						paul c.

    re: Madeleine L'Engle
    
    I didn't mention these mostly because I hadn't read a one until
    I was 26 years old. I was looking for some obscure sf and came
    across her books THE ARM OF THE STARFISH and THE YOUNG UNICORNS.
    They looked like they might be marginal sf, so I read them and
    got hooked. Both *are* a bit marginal, but I still consider them
    sf. Anyways, I went on a L'Engle binge and in the time since have
    picked up almost all of her fiction. I could go on for screenfuls
    about L'Engle. She's one of my favorite authors. I finally met her
    a couple of years ago at an sf convention, and she was an absolutely
    delightful person. She was also a bit surprised to find someone
    who was a real fan. Everyone had copies of the Time Trilogy and
    a couple of the other sf novels to have autographed. I, however,
    pulled out first editions of some of her early novels, as well as
    some very obscure recent books.

    The odd thing is, though, that when I finally got around to
    reading A WRINKLE IN TIME and its sequels, I was disappointed.
    I consider them among her lesser works. It should be noted that
    the bulk of her work is not sf or fantasy. She's not even a
    strictly "children's" author, either. Some of her best work is
    written for adults.    
    
    re:.20
    
    These books are constantly kept in print, so you should find
    them in any reasonably well-stocked bookstore. The first three
    books were often found in a single boxed set as "The Time
    Trilogy". MANY WATERS just recently came out in paperback, and
    the other week, I noticed that it was added to the boxed set,
    which is now called "The Time Quartet".
    
    Note that MANY WATERS actually focuses upon the twins Sandy and
    Dennis, rather than Meg or Charles Wallace.
    
    The other interesting thing to note is that just about all of
    L'Engle's fiction is tied together in one (albeit inconsistent)
    universe. Characters crossover all of the time. The main characters
    in THE ARM OF THE STARFISH, DRAGONS IN THE WATERS (also marginally
    sf), and A HOUSE LIKE A LOTUS are the children of Calvin O'Keefe
    and Meg Murry from the Time Trilogy.
    
    The only other novel of hers that's sf is A RING OF ENDLESS LIGHT,
    which features one of the main characters from THE ARM OF THE
    STARFISH, and most of the cast from THE YOUNG UNICORNS. RING is
    my favorite of L'Engle's novels.
    
    
    --- jerry

    re: .-2
    
    Someone else remembers the Rick Brant series?  I loved those too 
    as a kid, but have lost all my copies.  The science in them was a lot
    more believable than the Tom Swift, and the characters weren't quite
    as irritating.  Does anyone remember the titles?  How many were there
    all together?
    
    /jlr

re: .25
>    more believable than the Tom Swift, and the characters weren't quite
>    as irritating.  Does anyone remember the titles?  How many were there
>    all together?

Yes, the Rick Brant stories were much better written than the Tom Swift
(Jr.--what incarnation is Tom in these days?) books, at least from my 11-12
year old perspective.  I think there were about 15-18 of them in all.
Rick's buddy Scotty starts off as a returned underaged WWII vet (lied
about his age), as I seem to recall, so the first in the series must've
been late 40s or early 50s vintage.  I was still buying them in the 63-64
timeframe, but I forget how they covered up for Scotty's advanced age at
that point.  Only title I remember right now is "The Wailing Octopus".

    I read the Rick Brant's, too. Even though I agree that they were
    better-written and had more believable science, they never quite
    grabbed me like the Tom Swift's.
    
    They were written by Harold Leland Goodwin, under the pseudonym
    "John Blaine", and there 23 in the series:
    
     1	THE ROCKET'S SHADOW		1947
     2	THE LOST CITY			1947
     3  SEA GOLD			1947
     4	100 FATHOMS UNDER		1947
     5	THE WHISPERING BOX MYSTERY	1948
     6	THE PHANTOM SHARK		1949
     7	SMUGGLER'S REEF			1950
     8	THE CAVES OF FEAR		1951
     9	STAIRWAY TO DANGER		1952
    10	THE GOLDEN SKULL		1954
    11	THE WAILING OCTOPUS		1956
    12	THE ELECTRONIC MIND READER	1957
    13	THE SCARLET LAKE MYSTERY	1958
    14	THE PIRATES OF SHAN		1958
    15	THE BLUE GHOST MYSTERY		1960
    16	THE EGYPTIAN CAT MYSTERY	1961
    17	THE FLAMING MOUNTAIN		1962
    18	THE FLYING STINGAREE		1963
    19	THE RUBY RAY MYSTERY		1964
    20	THE VEILED RAIDERS		1965
    21	ROCKET JUMPER			1966
    22	THE DEADLY DUTCHMAN		1967
    23	DANGER BELOW!			1968
    
    --- jerry

    There was a series of children's books that I remember reading in grade
    school.  The first book was called _Spaceship_Under_the_Apple_Tree_ and
    there were at least two or three additional books in the series. Does
    anyone else remember them?  All I can remember was that the alien had
    all kind of gadgets and that he spend a summer on earth going to a
    summer camp for kids. 
    
    Wook

    re:.28
    
    I never read them, but I know there were at least five books in
    the series:
    
    THE SPACE SHIP UNDER THE APPLE TREE
    THE SPACE SHIP RETURNS TO THE APPLE TREE
    THE THREE-SEATED SPACE SHIP
    THE ROUND TRIP SPACE SHIP
    THE SPACE SHIP IN THE PARK
    
    The author was Louis Slobodkin.
    
    --- jerry

    	I only knew of and read the first one, but I thought it was
    cute.  I especially got a kick out of the device the alien (who
    looked like a little man) had on his shoes, which he could activate
    to go at just about any speed he wanted.  It was especially amusing
    when he would come across a car speed limit sign on the road and
    adjust to the speed written. :^)
    
    	Larry
    

    
    Someone in .-many mentioned Scholastic Book Service.  They put out a
    number of SF books; we still have "The Lost Race of Mars" by Robert
    Silverberg.  Does anyone know if SBS is still around?
    
    I reread "Tunnel in the Sky" recently, and was not nearly as impressed
    ass I was with "Citizen of the Galaxy" -- *that* one is written on many
    levels; like the protagonist, I found that I understood things looking
    back that I hadn't when I was younger.  I think the best juvenile SF is
    that way -- a child can enjoy it; for an adult it is still thought
    provoking.
    
    Beverly
    

    re:.31
    
    Yes, SBS is still around and has even been distributing to bookstores
    for the past 10 or more years (before that, they were only distributed
    through schools as part of the TAB or Arrow Book Clubs). They publish
    under a few different imprints these days, though, rather than just
    under the "Scholastic" imprint. The only imprints that come to mind
    are "Apple" (trade-sized paperback) and "Vanguard".
    
    --- jerry

    
    Lost Race of Mars.  I got that one, too!
    
    DFW

    
    		Absolute, No contest winner of my favorite book from
        five or six years ago, and even now it is up there:
    	
    		_A Wizard of Earthsea_
    		_The Tombs of Atuan_
    		_The Farthest Shore_
    
    		Collectively known as the Earthsea Trilogy, these 
    	were written by Ursula Kroeber LeGuin, who also wrote 
    	_Rocannon's World_, The left Hand of Darkness etc. The 
    	first one won the Horn Book Award, the second the Newberry
    	Award, and the last won the national book Award for Children.
    		Absolutely, bar none, the BEST dragons anywhere.
    		Absolutely, bar none, the BEST wizards anywhere.
    		
    		Considering I am still in the age we are talking 
    	about, I would have to say that I started on LOTR in 4th
    	grade, and it was the single series that made me read, since
    	I really never read before that. Dune at 9th, Asimov at 9th,
    	Donaldsen at 10th, and everything else before that. Moorcock,
    	too. All of his stuff I used to sneak behind my English books
    	in 5th grade so I could read it during class. I got busted 
    	though.
    
    						sam
    	

    Sam,
    
    I was wondering when someone would mention The Earthsea Trilogy.
    I read it a couple of years ago, and it's still one of my favorites.
    
    I also always think of The Hobbit as being more of a children's
    book.  The first few chapters of Lord of the Rings are, too.
    
    Michelle
    

    We haven't mentioned Oz yet.  I don't know how I missed it; my family
    on my mother's side practically has dual citizenship there.  The series
    starts, of course, with "The Wizard of Oz" by L. Frank Baum, which was
    made into the famous MGM movie.  But Baum went on to write about a
    dozen more Oz stories, some featuring Dorothy and her old friends, many
    featuring new Oz folk.
    
    When Baum died, Ruth Plumly Thompson took over and wrote a whole 
    bunch more.  She retired and one of the Oz illustrators, John R. Neil, 
    wrote a few.  Then the publishers began getting less steady workers 
    and the quality of output declined.  The International Wizard of 
    Oz Club recognizes a "canon" of about 40 Oz stories.
    
    Baum also wrote a few stories set in the Oz universe, but with no
    direct connection to Oz.  The only ones that come to mind are "The
    Magical Monarch of Mo" and "Queen Zixi of Ix."  Baum liked two-letter
    names, as you may gather.
    
    Earl Wajenberg 

    While we're talking classics, there's also "Alice in Wonderland" and
    "Alice Through the Looking-Glass."  I don't know if they actually
    qualify as fantasy, since both turn out to be dreams, but they are
    enormously influential on authors of science fiction and popular
    science.
    
    They are, of course, by Charles Dodgson, aka Lewis Carrol, and concern
    his friend Alice Pleasance Liddle, second daughter of one of his fellow
    dons.  I forget, did Dodgson teach at Oxford or Cambridge?
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    re: Oxford or Cambridge
    
    You mean there's a difference? :-)
    
    --- jerry

    RE: -.1 & -.2
    
    Please gentlemen, don't blaspheme like that!  My husband (Queens
    College, Cambridge) would have a fit at the thought of someone
    comparing his beloved Cambridge with *that other place*!
    
    In answer to the original question, it was Oxford, but I can't remember
    which college.
    
    Michelle
    

    "For almost half a century [Charles Lutwidge Dodgson] was a resident
    of Christ Church, the Oxford college that was his alma mater.  For
    more than half period, he was a teacher of mathematics." 
    
    			-from the Introduction of "The Annotated Alice"
    				edited by Martin Gardner
    
    BTW, Earl, Alice's last name is spelled Liddell.

    re:.39
    
    I was making a joke. I'm sure that well over 90% of the people
    in the United States have no idea that there's a difference.
    I'm sure that most people in the US wouldn't know there was a
    difference between Harvard and Yale if the two universities
    didn't play football against each other once in a while.
    
    Come to think of it, if you mentioned Cambridge University to
    someone around Boston, they'd probably think you were talking
    about Harvard (it's in the city of Cambridge).
    
    --- jerry

wait a minute, jerry, are you sure you're talking about citizens
of the US of A, where all the men are strong and intelligent, and
where all the women are beautiful and well-read?

    RE: 39/41/42
    
    I was joking as well.  I think if yu asked most English people,
    they'd think Yale was a door lock!  The only reason most of them
    know the difference between Oxford and Cambridge is because they
    play each other at rugby, soccer, tiddleywinks etc.
    
    Dodgson was an unusual character, to say the least.  There was a
    very big article in The Guardian newspaper about him some time ago.
    His frindship with the Liddel family (Liddel was the Master of Christ
    Church) was an strange one, and Alice one of a couple of children.
    I'll see if I can dig out a copy and will post anything of relevance
    to this conference.
    
    Michelle
    

I get a kick out of the anecdote concerning Queen Victoria, in which, after 
having read "Alice in Wonderland", the queer old dean (oops! dear old queen) 
stated that she wouldn't be displeased to have Dodgson's next book dedicated
to her,...so it was, only it turned out to be some work on mathematics, and 
not very widely read.

Dave

    I've heard that Dodgson had an, uh, interest in young ladies.  I
    don't know if Alice Liddel was one such object of his affection,
    though.

    	From a very nice 1960 version of the ALICE books I have, the
    Foreward states that Dodgson (Carroll) had a purely chaste, but
    very intense, attraction to the real Alice.  In any event, it was
    a rather peculiar behavior from an adult man.  The book also says
    that Alice's mother was not fond of Dodgson's attention towards
    Alice, and she burned many of his letters to her.  Dodgson also
    never married in his life.  I guess you can make of this as you wish.
    
    	In stark contrast, Dodgson despised little boys, considering
    them to be dirty little monsters.
    
    	And I also could be wrong, but I never thought the ALICE series
    was exactly for children.  Just because the plots were in a fantasy
    setting does not mean it is for children.
                                                                         
    	Larry
          

    From the annotations in "The Annotated Alice," (said annotations by
    Martin Gardner), I gather that Dodgson was indeed powerfully attracted
    to little girls, but, being good and Victorian (or perhaps just plain
    decent), did nothing more about it than photograph a number of little
    girls in artistically nude positions.  This he did with their mothers'
    consent, of course, and left orders that, at his death, all these
    pictures be destroyed lest they embarass the girls in adult life.  This
    seems to have been done.
    
    Alice in particular seems to have been an unusually charming and pretty
    little girl, and attracted the attentions of a great many adults, not
    just Dodgson.
    
    I think that the Alice stories WERE written for children.  It is at
    least highly probably that "Wonderland" got started as an impromptu
    story told to Alice and her sisters while out boating one summer, just
    as the introductory poem suggests.  Dodgson then worked it up into a
    full-blown novel and gave it for review to George MacDonald and family.
    (MacDonald is a prolific Victorian author of adult novels, children's
    fairytales, and adult fantasies.)  Dodgson asked them if they thought
    it was good enough to publish.  They said yes.  Loudly.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

        To continue on children's SF...
        
        Anyone remember the Digby Allen space adventures?

    re:.48
    
    Yes, I have a set of the Dig Allen books. Only five of them
    were published, though.
    
    --- jerry

    Richard Peck is an author of fiction for children and young adults.
    A lot of his stuff is gritty, hard-hitting and completely realistic,
    but he blows off steam with his "Bluff City" series.
    
    Bluff City is a fictionalized version of Decatur, Illinois, around
    1912 to 1914.  The narrators of the stories are Blossom Culp and
    Alexander Armsworth, kids from this town, though from opposite ends
    of the economic spectrum.  What they have in common is that they
    are neighbors and both are psychic.  Blossom, in particular, is
    a powerful clairvoyant.  Alaxander might be able to be, but the
    stuff scares him.  Mostly, they are junior ghostbusters.  The
    situations are very funny, though, and Blossom's character is
    delightful.  The titles are:
    
    	The Ghost Belonged to Me
    
    	Ghosts I Have Been
    
    	The Dreadful Future of Blossom Culp
    
    	Blossom Culp and the Mummy's Curse
    
    Another good set of juvenile ghost story / horror fantasy is the
    Capharnum County trilogy by John Bellairs:
    
    	The House with a Clock in Its Walls
    
    	The Figure in the Shadows
    
    	The Letter, the Ring, and the Witch
    
    (I may have gotten the order of elements muddled on that last title.)
    Once again, we have a little boy and a little girl -- Louis Barnavelt
    and Rose Rita Pottinger.  They are a few years younger than Alexander
    and Blossom, however, and live in Capharnum County, Michigan, 1950-52.
    Louis is an orphan who comes to live with his uncle Jonathon.  Jonathon
    Barnavelt and his neighbor, Mrs. Zimmerman, are amature magicians.
    Well, Jonathon is an amature;  Mrs. Zimmerman has a D.Mag.A from
    the University of Gottingen.  These four get involved putting down
    some particularly nasty magic left over from a less benevolent
    generation of back-country magicians.  Sometimes, it gets so horrific,
    I am a little surprised to find this stuff ina children's book.
    But the author is only living up to the scare-yourself-witless
    childhood tradition of ghost stories told around campfires and under
    bedsheets.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

    Hmm....I zipped through this particular topic and didn't see any
    mention of Lloyd Alexander's Pyrdain (sp?) series--The Book of Three,
    The Black Cauldron, somethingthemiddleIdon'tremember, Taran Wanderer
    and the Newberry Award Winning The High King.
    
    Also, how about James and the Giant Peach, or the Phantom Tollbooth?
    Funny, funny, funny.....I may go buy these sometimes soon and see
    if they are like what I remembered.
    
                                                  ---kim

    re .52 - The Chronicles of Prydain, based on the Mabinogion.  Good
    reading.  Disney Studios was supposed to be working on an animation of
    The Black Cauldron, but I haven't seen anything further about it.
    
    Who was it who did the Song of Rhiannon?  Evelyn somebody?  Another
    series based on Welsh mythology.  Also excellent, albeit somewhat
    bleaker than Alexander's series.  Or did this get mentioned earlier
    in this note and I've just forgotten.  Evelyn Walsh?  Walton?
    Evangeline Walton?  Why doesn't my brain work when I need it to?
    
    len (who still hasn't installed parity on his memory).
    

Re .53

>    Disney Studios was supposed to be working on an animation of
>    The Black Cauldron, but I haven't seen anything further about it.

The Black Cauldron was released a few years ago.  It didn't do that
well at the box office.

Re .52

The third book in the Prydain pentalogy is called CASTLE OF LLYR.

Back to .53

Evangeline Walton did a set of four books based on the Mabinogion.
    
				Andrew

>    len (who still hasn't installed parity on his memory).
 
    I love it! What an image!
    
    - Richard

    re .55 - for the ultimate extension of this notion, see Gregory
    Benford's recent novels.  "Tides of Light" is the latest, the sequel
    to, uh, [undetected parity error in long term biomemory]
    
    len.
    
                     

re: .-1
"Tides of Light" is the sequel to "Great Sky River".  I read it in 
hardback and liked it, but I don't think it's in paperback yet.
/jlr

    re .57 - yes, that's it.  I greatly enjoyed Great Sky River and
    have just started Tides of Light.  Tides of Light features
    megaengineering on the scale of Greg Bear's Eon.
    
    But we're a bit off the subject of kids' SF/fantasy.
    
    len.
    

    Back to the subject then!
    
    Has anyone ever read any of Nicholas Fisk's childrens' SF books.
    They include:
    		Grinny
    		Trillions
    		A Rag, a Bone, and a Hank of Hair
    		Time Trap
    		Antigrav
    
    and some others that I can't remember.  I don't know if they're
    available outside the UK.  Many years ago, when I was just a kid
    (I'm an ancient 20 years old now), Mr Fisk was my favourite author.
    It's a while since I read any of these, so I don't know if I'd still
    think they were good.  Certainly worth a look though.
    
    Mat.
    *:o)
    

    re 52
    
    	Someone else has read _The Phantom Tollbooth_, wow, that brings
    back memories from looonng ago. Yeah I should read it again and
    compare it to my memories of it.
    
    Charlie

    Yeah, I read the Phantom Tollbooth way back when (when enough that
    I can't remember--elementary school, methinks).  I remember the
    Watchdog, and the hero not being able to say anything in a kingdom
    of silence, or something like that, etc....
    
    Who was the writer of the Phantom Tollbooth, anyway?  And of James
    and the Giant Peach?
    
                                                    ---kim

    Just noticed .60's personal name--love it!!!!!!
    
    I didn't think anyone else remembered that line--anytime I hear
    or say "Big (substitute noun)" I go off onto that line....  ;D
    
                                               ---kim

    THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH was by Norman Juster.
    
    The animated film is also good, though as is usually the case,
    can't compare with its source.
    
    --- jerry

    When did that film come out, Jerry?  I musta missed it.  Was it
    feature or TV?
    
    Thanks 
    
                                                   ---kim

    _James and the Giant Peach_ was written by the author of
    _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_ and _Charlie and the Great Glass
    Elevator_ -- Roald Dahl.    
    
    					andrew

    That's what I sorta kinda maybe thought....went looking for it this
    weekend.  Thanks much, tho!   :)
    
                                                            ---kim

    During childhood I discovered the following, roughly in order :-

	Wind in the Willows
	Alice in Wonderland / Through the Looking Glass
	At the Back of the North Wind
	Chronicles of Narnia
	The Hobbit
	Lord of the Rings
	Day of the Triffids
	The Owl Story ((?) I think this was the title)
	Lord of the Flies

	Dr Who (TV and banned but watched avidly all the same 8^})
	Thunderbirds
	Fireball XL5
	
	+ many, many more

     All introduced me to the premise that there are far more interesting
     worlds out there than the relitively boring world of school and 
     homework !! 

    
    
    	I also remember, early in public school, reading an OZ book about
    a bird called an OCK or something like that. I remember it was quite
    a moving book for a child of the age that I was, but I cannot remember
    too much more than that about the book.
    
    Charlie

    re: .67

    What was "At the Back of the North Wind" about and who was it by?

    re:.69
    
    I haven't read it, so I can't tell you what it's about, but it's
    written by George MacDonald, whose other rather well-known children's
    fantasies are THE PRINCESS AND THE GOBLIN and THE PRINCESS AND
    CURDIE.
    
    He's also written a number of books for adults, three of which were
    part of Lin Carter's Adult Fantasy Series for Ballantine back in
    the late 60's/early 70's: PHANTASTES, LILITH (both novels), and
    EVENOR (collection).
    
    --- jerry

Most of George MacDonald's books are difficult to describe, since
the plot is usually secondary to the archetypes.;-)  Well worth
reading, unless you're totally cynical.

Could "The Owl's Story" refer to the "The Owl Service" by Alan
Garner?
						paul

	Re: - a few

> Most of George MacDonald's books are difficult to describe, ......

	Ditto.   All I remember was that I enjoyed it, the title, and that
	it made a big impression on me.   It was basically a fairy story
	along the lines of Grimms fairy tales, but then again I could well
	be confusing it with something else.   There's nothing for it, I'm
	just going to have to read it again  :-)
	

> Could "The Owl's Story" refer to the "The Owl Service" by Alan
> Garner?

	That's the one.  I could remember the cover of the book and roughly
	what it was about, but not the title !

From: holbrook@apollo.COM (Alan R. Holbrook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Re:  Children's SF
Date: 18 May 89 16:40:00 GMT
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, Mass.
  
    When the topic first came up several weeks ago, I started collecting
    replies.  I had intended to verify some stuff, reformat it and the
    like, and THEN publish, but I don't seem to have the time these days.
    So, for what it's worth, here's the (semi)-raw file.
 
Doctor Doolittle series (Hugh Lofting)
 
Freddy the Pig series (Walter Brooks)
 
The Little Ball from Mars (???)
 
Peter Graves (William Pene DuBois)
The Twenty-One Baloons (William Pene DuBois)
 
Sir MacHinery (???)
 
Alan Mendelsohn, The Boy From Mars (Daniel Pinkwater)
Lizard Music (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Magic Moscow trilogy (Daniel Pinkwater)
    The Magic Moscow, 
    Attila the Pun
    Slaves of Spiegel
Fat Men from Space (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Hoboken Chicken Emergency (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Last Guru (Daniel Pinkwater)
Yobgorgle, Mystery Monster of Lake Ontario (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Worms of Kukumlima (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Snarkout Boys and the Avocado of Death (Daniel Pinkwater)
The Snarkout Boys and the Baconburg Horror (Daniel Pinkwater)
 
A Wrinkle in Time (?Madeline L'Engle??)
 
The Chronicles of Narnia (C.S. Lewis)
 
Escape to Witch Mountain (???)
 
The Forgotten Door (Alexander Key)
The Magic Meadow (Alexander Key)
 
The Dark is Rising (Susan Cooper)
    Over Sea, Under Stone
    The Dark is Rising
    Greenwitch
    The Grey King
    Silver on the Tree
 
Mushroom Planet series (Eleanor Cameron)
 
Alice in Wonderland (Lewis Carroll)
Through the Looking Glass (Lewis Carroll)
 
The Wind in the Willows (???)
 
The Phantom Tollbooth (???)
 
The Silver Crown (???)
 
Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH (???)
 
The Forgotten Door (???)
 
The Wonderful Voyage to the Mushroom Planet (Eleanor Cameron)
Stowaway to the Mushroom Planet (Eleanor Cameron)
A Mystery for Mr. Bass (Eleanor Cameron)
Time and Mr. Bass (Eleanor Cameron)
 
The Taran Series (Llyod Alexander
	The Book of Three
	The Black Cauldron
	The Castle of Llyr
	Taran Wanderer
	The High King
The Westmark Trilogy (Lloyd Alexander)
	Westmark
	The Kestrel
	The Beggar Queen
 
The Face in the Frost (John Bellairs)
The House with the Clock in its Walls (John Bellairs)
 
The Abalok books (Jane Louise Curry)
	 The Change Child        (Elizabethean period, Wales)
	 The Sleepers            (Modern period, Scotland/London)
	 Beneath the Hill        (Modern period, West Virginia)
	 The Daybreakers         (Modern/Elizabethan, West Virginia)
	 Over the Edge of the Sea (Modern/11th Century, WV and Wales)
	 The Watchers            (Modern, WV)
	 The Birdstones          (Modern/Elizabethan, WV)
	 The Wolves of Aam       (Prehistoric, Northern Europe?)
	 The Shadow Dancers      (Prehistoric, Northern Europe?)
 
Enchantress from the Stars (Sylvia Louise Engdahl)
The Far Side of Evil (Sylvia Louise Engdahl)
Beyond the Tomorrow Mountains (Sylvia Louise Engdahl)
 
Knee-Deep in Thunder (Sheila Moon)
 
Half Magic, Magic by the Lake (Edward Eager)
Knight's Castle, The Time Garden (Edward Eager)
Magic or Not, The Well Wishers (Edward Eager)
Seven Day Magic (Edward Eager)
 
Witch Week (Diane Wynne Jones)
The Time of the Ghost (Diane Wynne Jones)
The Homeward Bounders (Diane Wynne Jones) 
The Spellcoats (Diane Wynne Jones)
Charmed Life (Diane Wynne Jones)
Drowned Ammet (Diane Wynne Jones) 
The Power of Three (Diane Wynne Jones)
Dogsbody (Diane Wynne Jones)
Cart and Cwidder (Diane Wynne Jones)
Eight Days of Luke (Diane Wynne Jones)
The Ogre Downstairs (Diane Wynne Jones)
Wilkin's Tooth (Diane Wynne Jones)
Archer's Goon (Diane Wynne Jones)
The Lives of Christopher Chant (Diane Wynne Jones)
A Tale of Time City (Diane Wynne Jones)
Howl's Moving Castle (Diane Wynne Jones)
Warlock at the Wheel (Diane Wynne Jones)
Who Got Rid of Angus Flint? (Diane Wynne Jones)
The Magicians of Caprona (Diane Wynne Jones)
The Four Grannies (Diane Wynne Jones)
Fire and Hemlock (Diane Wynne Jones)
 
The Sherwood Ring (Elizabeth Post)
The Perilous Gard (Elizabeth Post)
 
A Walk out of the World (???)
 
Drujiana's Harp (???)
 
Tom's Midnight Garden (???)
 
The Brave Little Toaster (Thomas A. Disch)
 
The Runaway Robot (???)
 
Matthew Looney's Voyage to the Earth (???)
 
Children of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
The Delakon (H. M. Hoover)
The Rains of Eridan (H. M. Hoover)
Treasures of Morrow (H. M. Hoover)
This Time of Darkness (H. M. Hoover)
The Shepherd Moon (H. M. Hoover)
The Lost Star (H. M. Hoover)
The Bell Tree/Jar (?) (H. M. Hoover)
 
The Hero and the Crown (Robin McKinley)
The Blue Sword (Robin McKinley)
Beauty (Robin McKinley)
 
The Little Prince (Antoine de St.Exuperie (sp?))
 
The Arthurian Trilogy (T.H. White)
 
Danny Dunn series (Jay Williams and Raymond Abrashkin)
 
The Green Sky Trilogy (Zilpha Keatly Snyder)
 
=======================================================================
 
    Enjoy, either with your children or with the child within you.
 
    Alan
 
    No .sig, I just post on impulse.

    I can't believe it!  Somebody else knows of Freddy the Pig!
    
    Oh, heart be still!!!!
    
    After decades (I won't say how many) of getting odd looks from
    everybody I ever mentioned these books to, I finally have confirmation
    that they were not just a figment of my imagination!  I recall
    devouring the entire series during elementary school, and I have more
    vivid recollections of these books than most others I have read more
    recently (that is to say, in the intervening decades).  I never
    considered them to be SF, but fantasy, or fantastical or just
    fantastically imaginative.  Perhaps they are to blame (or get credit?)
    for my preference for SF/F as an alleged adult.
    
    Thanks for bringing up Freddy the Pig.  What memories.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Re: Children's SF
Date: 19 May 89 06:14:05 GMT
Sender: news@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu
Organization: Penn State University Computer Science
Copyright: None. Public domain.
 
    Here's a version of the children's SF booklist in a regular
format, with random corrections and additions.  The list is incomplete
because I've only used on-line sources available to me (notably,
MARC). Sometime this weekend, I'll search through more conventional
sources for further data.  In particular, I'm thinking of adding
age-bracket data, since the books listed sprawl something like 6-60
years old. Results in (maybe) a week.  Unless /John makes this list
redundant. :-) 
--
Felix Lee	flee@shire.cs.psu.edu	*!psuvax1!shire!flee
 
 
....
  The little ball from Mars
 
....
  Tom's midnight garden
 
.... (Lester Del Rey?)
  The runaway robot
 
Alexander, Lloyd
  The chronicles of Prydain
    The Book of Three [1964]
    The Black Cauldron [1965]
    The castle of Llyr [1966]
    Taran Wanderer [1967]
    The high king [1968]
  The marvellous misadventures of Sebastian [1970]
  The Westmark trilogy
    Westmark [1981]
    The Kestrel [1982]
    The Beggar Queen [1984]
 
Beatty, Jerome
  Matthew Looney's voyage to the earth [1961]
 
Bellairs, John
  The face in the frost [1969]
  The house with a clock in its walls [1973]
  The dark secret of Weatherend [1984]
 
Brooks, Walter
  Freddy the pig ...
 
Cameron, Eleanor (1912-)
  Mushroom Planet series
    The wonderful flight to the Mushroom Planet [1954]
    Stowaway to the Mushroom Planet [1956]
    A mystery for Mr. Bass [1960]
    Time and Mr. Bass [1967]
    ...
  The mysterious Christmas shell [1961]
 
 
Carroll, Lewis (Rev. Charles Dodgson) (1832-1898)
  Alice's adventures in Wonderland
  Through the looking-glass
 
Conly, Jane Leslie (daughter of Robert C. O'Brien)
  Racso and the rats of NIMH [1986]
	[sequel to: Mrs. Frisby and the rats of NIMH / O'Brien, Robert C.]
 
Cooper, Susan
  Dawn of fear [1970]
  The Dark is rising
    Over sea, under stone [1965]
    The Dark is rising [1973]
    Greenwitch [1974]
    The Grey King [1975]
    Silver on the Tree [1977]
 
Curry, Jane Louise
  Beneath the hill [1967]
  The sleepers [1968]
  The change-child [1969]
  The daybreakers [1970]
  The watchers [1975]
  The birdstones [1977]
  The wolves of Aam [1981]
  Shadow dancers [1983]
  Over the edge of the sea
 
Disch, Thomas M.
  The Brave Little Toaster [1986]
  The Brave Little Toaster goes to Mars [1988]
 
Duane, Diane
  So you want to be a wizard [1983]
  Deep wizardry [1985]
 
Dubois, William Pene (1916-)
  The twenty-one balloons [1947]
  Peter Graves [1969]
 
Eager, Edward
  Half magic [1954]
  Magic by the lake [1985]	<< suspicious
  Knight's castle [1956]
  The time garden [1958]
  Magic or not? [1959]
  The well-wishers [1960]
  Seven-day magic [1962]
 
Engdahl, Sylvia Louise
  ...
    Enchantress from the stars [1970]
    The far side of evil [1971]
  ...
    This star shall abide [1972]
    Beyond the Tomorrow Mountains [1973]
 
Grahame, Kenneth (1859-1932)
  The wind in the willows
 
Hoban, Russell
  The mouse and his child [1967]
 
Hoover, H. M.
  ...
    Children of Morrow [1973]
    Tresures of Morrow [1976]
  The rains of Eridan [1977]
  The Delikon [1977]
  The lost star [1979]
  This time of darkness [1980]
  The bell tree [1982]
  The Shepherd Moon [1984]
 
Jones, Diana Wynne (1934-)
  Wilkin's tooth [1973] [aka Witch's business]
  The ogre downstairs [1974]
  Eight days of Luke [1974]
  Cart and cwidder [1975]
  Dogsbody [1975]
  Power of three [1976]
  The Chrestomanci books
    Charmed life [1977]
    The magicians of Caprona [1980]
    Witch week [1982]
    The lives of Christopher Chant [1988]
  Drowned Ammet [1977]
  Who got rid of Angus Flint? [1978]
  The spellcoats [1979]
  The four grannies [1980]
  The time of the ghost [1981]
  The Homeward Bounders [1981]
  Archer's goon [1984]
  Warlock at the wheel and other stories [1984]
  Fire and hemlock [1985]
  Howl's moving castle [1986]
  A tale of Time City [1987]
 
Juster, Norton (1929-)
  The phantom tollbooth [1961]
 
Key, Alexander (1904-)
  The forgotten door
  The magic meadow [1975]
  Escape to Witch Mountain [1968]
  Return from Witch Mountain [1978]
 
Lee, Tanith
  The dragon hoard [1971]
 
L'Engle, Madeleine
  The time trilogy
    A wrinkle in time [1962]
    A wind in the door [1973]
    A swiftly tilting planet [1978]
 
Lewis, C(lives) S(taples)
  The chronicicles of Narnia
    The lion, the witch, and the wardrobe [1950]
    Prince Caspian [1951]
    The voyage of the Dawn Treader [1952]
    The silver chair [1953]
    The horse and his boy [1954]
    The magician's nephew [1955]
    The last battle [1956]
 
Lofting, Hugh (1886-1947)
  Doctor Doolittle ...
 
McGowen, Tom
  Sir MacHinery [1970]
 
McKenzie, Ellen Kindt
  Drujienna's harp [1971]
 
McKinley, Robin
  Beauty [1978]
  The kingdom of Damar
    The blue sword [1982]
    The hero and the crown [1985]
 
Mahy, Margaret
  The changeover: a supernatural romance [1984]
  The tricksters [1986]
  Memory [1987]
 
Moon, Sheila
  Knee-deep in thunder [1967]
 
Nichols, Ruth (1948-)
  A walk out of the world [1969]
 
O'Brien, Robert C.
  The silver crown [1968]
  Mrs. Frisby and the rats of NIMH [1971]
	[sequel: Racso and the rats of NIMH / Conly, Jane Leslie]
  Z for Zachariah [1975]
 
Pierce, Meredith Ann
  The darkangel trilogy
    The darkangel [1982]
    A gathering of gargoyles [1984]
    [no third book yet]
 
Pierce, Tamora
  The song of the lioness
    Alanna: the first adventure [1983]
    In the hand of the Goddess [1985]
    The woman who rides like a man [1986]
    Lioness rampant [1988]
 
Pinkwater, Daniel Manus (1941-)
  The terrible roar [1970]
  Bear's picture [1972]
  Wizard crystal [1973]
  Fat Elliot and the gorilla [1974]
  Magic camera [1974]
  Blue moose [1975]
  Three big hogs [1975]
  Wingman [1975]
  Around Fred's bed [1976]
  Lizard music [1976]
  The big orange splot [1977]
  The blue thing [1977]
  Fat men from space [1977]
  The Hoboken chicken emergency [1977]
  Superpuppy: how to choose, raise, and train the best possible dog
    for you [1977]
  The last guru [1978]
  Alan Mendelsohn, the boy from Mars [1979]
  Pickle creature [1979]
  Return of the Moose [1979]
  Yobgorgle, mystery monster of Lake Ontario [1979]
  The Magic Moscow trilogy
    The Magic Moscow [1980]
    Attila the pun: a Magic Moscow story [1981]
    Slaves of Spiegel: a Magic Moscow story [1982]
  Java Jack [1980]
  The Wuggie Norple story [1980]
  Tooth-gnasher Superflash [1981]
  The worms of Kukumlima [1981]
  Roger's umbrella [1982]
  Young adult novel [1982]
  The Snarkout Boys
    The Snarkout Boys and the avocado of death [1982]
    The Snarkout Boys and the Baconburg horror [1984]
  I was a second grade werewolf [1983]
  Devil in the drain [1984]
  Ducks! [1984]
  Jolly Roger: a dog of Hoboken [1985]
  Young adults [1985]
  The Frankenbagel monster [1986]
  The Moosepire [1986]
  The muffin fiend [1986]
  Aunt Lulu [1988]
  Guys from space [1989]
  Uncle Melvin [1989]
 
Post, Elizabeth
  The Sherwood ring
  The perilous gard
 
Saint-Exupery, Antoine de (1900-1944)
  The little prince 
 
Sleator, William
  Blackbriar [1972]
  House of stairs [1974]
  Interstellar Pig [1984]
  Singularity [1985]
 
Snyder, Zilpha Keatley
  Heirs of darkness [1978]
  The green sky trilogy ...
 
Vinge, Joan
  ...
    Psion [1982]
    Catspaw [1988]
 
White, T(erence) H(anbury) (1906-1964)
  The once and future king
    The once and future king [1958]
      The sword in the stone [1939]
      The ill-made knight [1940]
    The book of Merlyn [1977]
  Mistress Masham's repose [1946]
 
Williams, Jay (1914-) & Raymond Abrashkin
  Danny Dunn, invisible boy [1974]
  Danny Dunn on the ocean floor [1960]
  Danny Dunn, scientific detective [1975]
  Danny Dunn and the anti-gravity paint [1956]
  Danny Dunn and the homework machine [1958]
  Danny Dunn and the smallifying machine [1969]
  Danny Dunn and the swamp monster [1971]
  Danny Dunn and the universal glue [1977]
  Danny Dunn and the voice from space [1967]
  Danny Dunn, time traveler [1963]
 
Yolen, Jane
  ...
    Dragon's blood
    Heart's blood
    A sending of dragons

    Another Alan Garner book - The Wierdstone of Brisingamen (sp?)
    
    Terry Pratchet's trilogy - "Truckers" , "Diggers" and I think "Wings".
    
    Dave 8*)

>================================================================================
>Note 592.76                   Children's sf/fantasy                     76 of 76
>ESSB::DEARLY "Give up religion. Become a Diagnostic"  5 lines  24-JUN-1991 11:21
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    Another Alan Garner book - The Wierdstone of Brisingamen (sp?)
>    
>    Terry Pratchet's trilogy - "Truckers" , "Diggers" and I think "Wings".
>    
>    Dave 8*)

I thought that the Wierdstone of Brisingamen was by Diana Paxton...
BobW

    Re .76
    
>>
>>    Another Alan Garner book - The Wierdstone of Brisingamen (sp?)
>>    
>>    Terry Pratchet's trilogy - "Truckers" , "Diggers" and I think "Wings".
>>    
>>    Dave 8*)
>
> I thought that the Wierdstone of Brisingamen was by Diana Paxton...
> BobW
    
    No way. What follows is a brief list of childrens fiction written by
    Alan Garner:
    
    The Wierdstone of Brisingamen
    The Moon of Gomrath
    
    Elidor
    
    The Owl Service
    
    Red Shift
    
    The Book of Goblins (Anthology ed A Garner)
    
    The Moon of Gomrath is a sequel to TWoB, and all were originally
    published in the UK in the period 1965 to 1973.
    
    Independant Television in the UK made a seri based on the Owl Service,
    and the BBC did a television film version of Red Shift.
    
    
    Clive  _an avid Alan Garner fan since he was 7 years old_

Re .76
    
>>
>>    Another Alan Garner book - The Wierdstone of Brisingamen (sp?)
>>    
>>    Terry Pratchet's trilogy - "Truckers" , "Diggers" and I think "Wings".
>>    
>>    Dave 8*)
>
> I thought that the Wierdstone of Brisingamen was by Diana Paxton...
> BobW

Diana Paxson wrote a book simply entitled BRISINGAMEN.  As previous people
have pointed out, Alan Garner wrote THE WEIRDSTONE OF BRISINGAMEN.  (The
Paxson novel appeared some 15 years after the Garner novel.)

One warning to those who have not sampled Garner before:  his books end
very abruptly.  It is the primary reason I am not as fond of his writing
as some.

				Andrew

    Yes, The Owl Service!  I remember reading this as a youth, and just a
    couple of years ago I bought a beat-up paperback of it, and the story
    was none the worse for wear (on the book itself, and perhaps on the
    reader as well.) I recommend this STRONGLY for young readers.
    
    Really good stuff.
    
    - M
    

    I second "Owl Service" - better than "Wierdstone" - also any of Joan
    Aiken's books (particularly liked "The Whispering Mountain" or Susan
    Cooper's "The Dark is Rising" series.
    
    Kate
    (Happy in second childhood:-)

    Wow--reading these notes brings back such happy memories!
    
    The Danny Dunn and Rick Brant books--that's goin way back. :-)
    
    To this day I will re-read Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising books and the
    Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander. (As a kid I used to imagine
    writinga fan letter to Ms. cooper that would get her to write more of
    Will Stanton and the Light vs. the Dark.  I can still remember the plot
    I wanted her to start off with!:-) )
    
    I enjoyed the Princess and the Goblins and the Princess and Curdie by
    George MacDonald also.  Though I recall not quite comprehending it all. 
    I just knew there was something beyond the story I was reading.  Maybe
    now, (at the ripe old age of 25) I can re-read and understand?
    
    Loved the Weirdstone of Brisingamen by Alan Garner.  (my mom would
    worry that with all these fantasy books I was going to start believing
    in "it"!
    
    Another good fantasy/ghost author was Patricia Clapp.  She wrote two
    books about children who learned to fly and a great ghost story called
    "Jane-Emily".
    
    Anybody ever read "The Magic Three of Solatia"?  I forget the author,
    but a great tale!
    
    Anyone ever pick the books by E. Nesbit?  About 5 (?) brothers and
    sisters and an unusual creature (called "It", I think)
    
    Lastly, a question...What is the "Mabinogion"  Is it a basic Welsh
    myth?  Can I find the original someplace?
    
    --Tricia

    I recently bought a copy of The Mabinogion, translated by Gwyn Jones
    and Thomas Jones.  I think it's the oldest Celtic myths that were
    committed to paper.  Here's what the back cover says:
    
    This translation of the complete Mabinogion presents in modern English
    eleven Welsh stories which are among the finest flowerings of the
    Celtic genius and, taken together, a masterpiece of medieval European
    literature. Preserved in, but much older than, two Welsh manuscripts,
    the White Book of Rhydderch (written between 1300 and 1325) and the Red
    Book of Hergest (1375-1425), they are grouped as follows: the Four
    Branches of the Mabinogi, "Pwyll", "Branwen", Manawydan", and "Math", a
    moving assemblage of story from the Celtic dawn; four independent
    native tales, "The Dream of Macsen Wledig", "Lludd and Llefelys",
    "Culwch and Olwen", a literary tour-de-force and the earliest Autherian
    prose-narrative in any language, and "The Dream of Rhonabwy", a
    romantic and sometimes humorously appreciative looking back at the
    heroic age of Britain; and three romances, "The Lady of the Fountain",
    "Peredur" and "Gereint son of Erbin", later Arthurian stories with
    abundant evidence of Norman-French Influences.
    
    
    It's interesting reading (though slow) - having grown up on the
    Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson, I keep expecting the bad
    guys to get punished at the end of the stories but so far it hasn't
    happened - I guess medieval (or earlier) storytellers weren't all that
    concerned with morals.  It'll be interesting to read the derivative
    stories after I finish and see if that's been changed.
    
    Ginny

    I'm very interested in also reading this!!  Where did you find this
    translation--at a regular bookstore?  Was the cost high or reasonable? 
    I love welsh mythology!
    
    --Tricia

    It was a regular bookstore (but not a chain) in my neighborhood.  It's
    an oversized paperback, 291 pages, and cost $6.95.  The original price
    printed on the book is in UK pounds so I don't know if that's the same
    price it would be in another bookstore.
    
    The ISBN is 0-460-87066-1.  Published by J.M. Dent & Sons Ltd.
    
    
    Ginny

re: .82, ff.
    
>    Anyone ever pick the books by E. Nesbit?  About 5 (?) brothers and
>    sisters and an unusual creature (called "It", I think)
    
I think i read all of Edith Nesbit's books when i was a kid (in a galaxy
far far away;-)), but i can't remember titles other than "Five Children
and It" and "The Phoenix and the Carpet" (and something else with "Amulet"
in the title).  I have this vague (and maybe incorrect) recollection that
she was somehow related to or connected to Andrew Lang, who compiled all
the "The [substitute_color_name_here] Fairy Book" series books.

I assume from your nodename that you're around Nashua, NH.  The Toadstool
Bookshop in Milford, NH, and Barnes & Noble in Nashua almost certainly
both have "The Mabinogion" in stock.  Evangeline Walton has three books
that are a modern novelization of the Mabinogion stories.  There are also
collections of (and novelizations of) the comparable Irish myths (like
the "Tain Bo Cualgne" and the Finn and Ossian stories) floating around.

							paul

    
    I'm pretty sure that the (paperback, realtively
    inexpensive)copies of _The Mabinogion_ that I've seen
    locally were published by Penguin Classics. Penguin books
    have offices worldwide, listed in the back of any
    of their editions. U.S. offices are in East Rutherford, 
    N.J.; call them and they'll send you a catalog with ordering
    information. 
    
    (Back in the late 60's there used to be a group called _Pentangle_
    that recorded some of the old Welsh stuff. I remember they did a
    version of Taeslin...probably long gone by now...)

    
    _The Mabinogion_, trans and intrro. by J. Gantz...Dorset
    Press. Barnes and Noble stock # 1332360. $6.95 plus s&h.
    
    Phone 201-767-7079, 24 hr/7 days.
    
    (Plus, they enter you in a sweepstakes drawing, with a first prize
    of a Mercedes-Benz convertable.)