Conference noted::sf

    	Sounds a bit like THE FORBIN PROJECT, where the US and USSR
    built computers to handle our nuclear arsenal, with the result that
    the computers combined into one unit, Colossus, and took over the
    world, since they held all the weapons.
    
    	Larry
    

The same basic idea is also used in THIS PERFECT DAY by Ira Levin.
One of my favorites!

Jim

Also remotely similar to Harlan Ellison's "I Have No Mouth and I 
Must Scream".

fw

    
    Re .0:
    
    I've been reading the series. Chalker has become one of my favorite
    authors. He seems to be really stuck on this theme of "body-switching"
    though. I can't think of a single one of his books that didn't involve
    that to some degree.
    
    Anyway, I think it is a pretty good adventure, I like the doubt
    in the characters that things are going a little too easy.
    
    re .1,.2,.3:
    
    The similarity is purely superficial, i.e. a computer dictatorship.
    Actually, I think the series has more in common with "Lord of the
    Rings" in that it is the story of a quest to defeat an evil
    dictatorship, by means of ring(s) of power.
    
                                    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

Yeah, the body switching is pretty heavy duty.  He really seems to have
taken a long look at different possible cultures also.

I can't wait for the next one to come out.....

fw

    There was a Jack Vance novel on exactly these lines called "The
    Five Gold Bands".  The idea there was that someone had discovered
    the secret to interstellar travel and set up a suffocating monopoly.
    He inscribed the secret on five gold bands and gave one 
    to each of his five sons.  The hero has to roam over all of space
    to find the bands and break the monopoly.  The book is almost forty
    years old and not that good, so no wonder Chalker thought he could
    rip it off.
    /jlr

    Odd how the mind works.  The first ones I thought of was "With Folded
    Hands"/THE HUMANOIDS and LotR.  Protecting Humankind from itself
    is (obviously) a good basis for a story. 
                                    
    Has the quest for the microchips been on-going or has the existance
    just been discovered?
    
    							Don

    re .7:
    
    The quest for the chips is new, knowledge of their existence is
    not. They are known to be important, powerful objects, and Master
    System is programmed to keep them in existence and the knowledge
    available. But like a contract with Satan, MS is allowed to interpret
    his instructions "to the letter" and not the spirit. Thus it can
    make it VERY difficult to uncover their true purpose, and locations.
    
    I think MS is engineering the whole quest to free itself from its
    programming in some diabolical way.
    
    				Sm
     

re: -1

    <I think MS is engineering the whole quest to free itself from its
     programming in some diabolical way.>
    
Could be.  What I'm interested in finding out is how the Vals are
playing this whole thing.  Could they have been infiltrated by this
"other race" that MS is supposedly at war with?  And could some
or most of the Vals be like double agents?

Cannot wait for the next book to come out.  If anyone sees it
please let me know....

fw

    Re .8:  "Ahh.", he said.
    
    Re .9:  There are valley girls in this one?
    
    							Don

    
    <Re .9:  There are valley girls in this one?>

Fer sure, dude....

But (and not wanting to spoil anything) you wouldn't want to mess
with 'em.  Gagging you with a spoon would be about the nicest thing
they'd do to you ;^)

fw    

    I've read the first 2 and have been looking for the third, and have
    been very impressed so far!
    
    Willie

    
    The third book has been out for at least a few months.  I've read
    all three and am awaiting the fourth.  I can't remember the name
    of the third book.
    
    
    Steve
    

    The first three books are:
                                                      
    	Book One: Lords of the Middle Dark
    	Book Two: Pirates of the Thunder
    	Book Three: Warriors of the Storm
    
    The next book is going to be Masks of the Martyrs.

    I am also enjoying this series by Chalker.
    The only previous works by him that I have read are the "Dancing
    Gods" series and the first two books of the "G.O.D., Inc." series.
    
    Chalker's "Ring's" books are the first of his works that I have
    read that have no attempt at humer.  
    
    Does Chalker write anything but serial books?
    
    Is any other of his work as serious (as in non-humerous)?
    
    Is anyone else reading the G.O.D., Inc. series and what do you think
    of it?
    
    Mike S.
    

	I agree that the G.O.D. series is very interesting. One big thing
	is the use of a Black female, not too frequently seen in these realms.
	The form of speech Brandy used (when she was the slave) at times
	distracted me. I have a habit of hearing the characters speaking if
	a line takes my fancy but I'm so middle-class suburbia I could never 
	get the feel of her voice in my mind. At any rate, that habit goes
	better with poetry than prose anyway. It's along the lines of whether
	and acter playing the part of a German in Germany should speak
	English with a German accent. 

	I also liked our heros being a little less than beautifull though
	that long stay in an alternate world did change that. I always find
	myself imagining screen plays and trying to cast the parts. The
	kind of radical changes Brandy goes through physically would be tough
	to cast with only one actress. 

	liesl

    
    Does anyone know when the next book in the Rings of the Master
    is coming out?  Also, I've been reading another book by Chalker.
    It's called _When_the_Changewinds_Blow_, does anyone out there in
    notesland know when _Riders_of_the_Winds_ (the next in the series)
    is coming out?  Thanks in advance.

    According to a bibliography compiled by Chalker himself in the
    latest issue of Chuq von Rospach's electronic fanzine OTHERREALMS:
    
    Masks of the Martyrs, Del Rey, January, 1988.
    
    Riders of the Winds, Second book in the Changewinds series for
    Ace/Putnam. Delivered May 22, 1987. Now slated for May, 1988.
    
    --- jerry

    I was not too thrilled with G.O.D. Inc #1, but I got #2 to give
    it another shot just in case I was having a bad day or two when
    I read #1.  It just didn't seem up to the standards of his other
    work, though even Rings seems to have a lot of overlap with his
    other work.  He seems determined to pound the concept of changing
    bodies into the ground.... :+)
    
    Willie

    
    I gave up on chalker during the third book of the flux and anchor
    series (is that the title??).  Did/does he get better or is he still 
    going down the rat hole.
    
    btw, I read the full Well World series, all 4 Lords of the Diamond,
    The Laughing Gods doulogy, and a couple of his stand alone novels,
    but by the time I got thru the first 3 or 4 (its been awhile) books
    of Flux and Anchor it seemed he was going in circles.  
    
    So, are his latest works similar to Flux, or more along the lines
    of the older series which I really enjoyed.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Clark.

1.  "Masks of the Martyrs" is out.  I picked it up last Tuesday at Lauriat's
in Framingham.  It's an okay book.  I've only skimmed it so far.  I skipped
ahead to the ending to see if I was right about the pattern to insert the rings,
and I was.  I figured it out during the first book, and have finally been
vindicated!!!  :-)

2.  Having said that, I agree that most of Chalker's recent books are very 
similar.  He has always had a constant theme of transformation, ultimate 
power, and corruption vs heroism.  You know, the generic Jack Chalker book.
Lately, however, his series seem even more alike.  It's as if he is writing
so many that they become the same story in different settings.
    I also think that his work for Del Rey is much better than his work for 
Ace.  I didn't bother to finish "the Messiah Choice", and "G.O.D., Inc." 
left me cold.  Del Rey has printed what I feel are Chalker's better works 
("Midnight at the Well of Souls", "The Devil Will Drag You Under", and the 
Warden Diamond series).  Perhaps they simply have better editors.


  Scott

    
    My God!  Scott - you've given me the answer -
    
    Chalker is nothing more than a Text fill (white noise of print)
    program following basic parameters...Del Ray just used better
    parameters and then sold the package to ace!!
    
    It all makes sense now!!
    
    Clark.
    
    Many :-)'s

Hi,

I've been away for awhile (vacation, then training).

I finished MOTM and I found the whole series to be wrapped up quite
nicely.

re .21 --  Congrats, Scott.  I didn't pick up the pattern until the
           fourth book, and quite honestly I figured 54321 would have
	   been too simple, but couldn't quite grasp the real pattern
           until it was almost time for them to use it.  Guess I would
	   have gotten fried! ;^)

I haven't read that much Chalker, so I haven't gotten tired of the
Body Changing stuff yet, but I really think there is only so far that
you can go with it.

Have to try the Change winds series and let you know what i think then...

frank

    
    
      I'm somewhat new in this conference (just found it the other day).
    
    I'm half way through MOTM,  and so far have been pretty pleased
    with the series as a whole.  
    
    I really liked the Soul Rider series, and read all 5 books.  Thats
    basically what prompted me to get another Jack Chalker book.
    
    Thanks for not giving away the secret.
    
    I also read the Thomas Covenant series by Stephen Donaldson and
    really liked that,  however,  I'm begginning to like the sci-fi
    type books more than pure fantasy.
    
    I thought the concept of life after a computer saved the world
    scenario was the biggest similarity between the two series.
    So far I'm not sick of Jack Chalker, however I think I'll try a
    different author after this series.  
    
    Considering I liked Soul Rider, and the Pirates of Thunder series,
    any suggestions.
    
    Thanks
    Paul

    
    	Actually, the pirates of thunder series turned me right off
    Chalker.
    
    	All the books had some interesting feature that was used to
    hold the whole book together, but I believe he would have been better
    of condensing the whole thing into one large volume.
    
    Charlie

    Re .25:
    
    No, Chalker wouldn't have been better off condensing it all into
    one large volume. He gets much more money this way.
    
    YOU might have been better off as a reader.
    
    - Richard

>        No, Chalker wouldn't have been better off condensing it all into
>    one large volume. He gets much more money this way.
>    
>    YOU might have been better off as a reader.
    
    
    I definitely would have been better off as the reader, but if a
    significant percentage of readers were turned off by this series,
    then Chalker is the real loser.
    There are too many good authors out there for me to waste my money
    buying purposely written pulp. I will not buy another.
    
    Charlie
           
    ps JMO :-)

      I'm glad Chalker wrote the story like he did.   I just finished
    the 4th book and enjoyed the series very much.
    
      I think if the story were condensed,  he would have had to simplify
    the theft of each ring.  As it is, if I were to complain about any
    aspect of the book, I would say that they gained each ring a bit
    too easily.  If the book were shortened, the theft of each ring
    would have had to have been much easier, with far fewer problems.
    
      paul
      

    
    Having read a number of Chalker's books and finding them anywhere from
    good (And the Devil Will Drag You Under, the River of the Dancing Gods
    series) to fair (G.O.D. Inc, The Web of the Chozen) to awful (The
    Messiah Choice), I've found that I still enjoy the transformation
    device, but have gotten tired of Chalker's use of it.  Does anyone have
    recommendation for any other Science Fiction (preferably) or Fantasy
    authors, or better yet specific books, which use this device?
    
    Joe                                            

    Oops... knew I forgot something.  I'm interested in recommendations for
    other novels/series using EITHER a physical OR mental transformation.
    Chalker's novel's concentrate much more on the former, but I'm
    interested in examples of both devices.  Thanks.
    
    Joe

    I think the device you speak of was done best (and certainly more
    interestingly) by Piers Anthony in the "Kirlian Quest" series about
    ten years before Chalker "discovered" it.
    
    I've read an awful lot of Chalker (is it that he seems to write a lot,
    or that it takes me subjectively so much time to read it?) and he
    reminds me an awful lot of Philip Jose Farmer - particularly in the
    "Riverworld" series - four long and intricate books, and when you
    finish reading them, you feel strangely empty handed.
    
    Harshly critical, perhaps, but when I count the hours wasted...
    
    Max