Conference noted::sf

    
    >then the good guy should be a space slug too, although he might be a
    >cuter space slug (how the hell do you make a cute slug?  FX can only
    >do so much).     
    
    Yeah, but in _Gremlins_ you had a cute "gremlin" and a lot of uglier
    ones.  Therefore ...
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

Except for the modern touches (sex, violence, etc etc), isn't this the same
plot that was in the book  NEEDLE  many years ago (author's name escapes me
at the moment)?

-Joe

    _Needle_ was written by Hal Clement.
    
    					andrew

Path: muscat!decwrl!decvax!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!throopw
From: throopw@xyzzy.UUCP (Wayne A. Throop)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: THE HIDDEN and Hal Clement's NEEDLE
Message-ID: <370@xyzzy.UUCP>
Date: 9 Nov 87 19:15:25 GMT
Organization: Data General, RTP NC.
Lines: 26
 
    Was anybody else struck by the similarity of the recent SF film
THE HIDDEN to the Hal Clement story NEEDLE?  There are
dissimilarities, but the common ground is striking:  Two
body-inhabiting physically repulsive alien creatures crash-land on
Earth (in the film the crash is only implied), and the good-guy alien
starts a search for the bad-guy alien, but can only succeed in
destroying the bad guy while the bad guy is attempting to transfer
between bodies, and the use of fire in effecting the transfer itself. 
 
    Granted, there are dissimilarities, such as the exact mode of body
entry, the fact that the host can survive in NEEDLE and not in THE
HIDDEN, the reason for waiting for an attempted transfer; but I was
surprised to see no mention of NEEDLE in the credits for this film -
it seemed so obviously inspired by NEEDLE despite the equally
obvious adaptation to an action-adventure orientation from the usual
Clement contemplative style. 
 
    Does anybody know any details here?  Does Hal Clement merely lack
a killer lawyer, or what? 
 
    Hmmmmm...I *am* pretty darned invulnerable...
 
        --- Mighty Mouse to The Cow, upon the receipt of The Cow's
            challenge to the League of Super Rodents
-- 
Wayne Throop      <the-known-world>!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!throopw

My friend Mona Wheeler, a writing student of Hal Clement's, spoke to 
him about The Hidden at the Star Trek BASH 87. Hal has not seen the 
The Hidden, and was not consulted. Harlan Ellison woke Hal at midnight 
on Friday November 6 to say that he had just seen the ad and it 
sounded like Hal's book The Needle (the rights for which were bought 
by Disney over the summer). Harlan did suggest a lawyer's name. 
However, Hal says he'll wait till he sees it, but stories about 
"possession" are older than science fiction.

Glenn Axelrod
Maynard, MA

(Also posted to rec.arts.sf-lovers)

Path: muscat!decwrl!hplabs!sri-unix!rutgers!ukma!gatech!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!throopw
From: throopw@xyzzy.UUCP (Wayne A. Throop)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers
Subject: Re: THE HIDDEN
Summary: Detailed listing of similarities and differences: NEEDLE vs THE HIDDEN
Message-ID: <380@xyzzy.UUCP>
Date: 18 Nov 87 18:37:28 GMT
References: <8711171624.AA17613@decwrl.dec.com>
Organization: Data General, RTP NC.
Lines: 57
 
    This article contains minor spoilers of NEEDLE and/or THE HIDDEN.
 
> axelrod@video.dec.com (Glenn PKO3-1/K90 223-7957)
> However, Hal says he'll wait till he sees it, but stories about 
> "possession" are older than science fiction.
 
    True, true, most of the ideas in THE HIDDEN have been used many
times and in many places.  But the similarities and numerous and
striking, and are by no means limited just to the central notion of
posession: 
 
     1) Good-guy alien vs bad-guy alien.
     2) Both repulsive-to-humans body-inhabiting aliens of a few Kg mass.
     3) They are continuing a conflict on Earth that started elsewhere.
     4) It is stated in the book and implied in the movie that they both
        crash landed on Earth.
     5) Bad guy unconcerned with hosts, and notorious for host abuse
        (in the book the bad guys crime was host abuse, and something
        similar is implied in the movie).
     6) The good guy does not change hosts while the bad guy does 
        (or is suspected of so doing).
     7) The process of changing hosts is crucial to stopping the bad guy.
     8) Fire is used to force the bad guy to change hosts.
     9) The good guy's host is relatively young.
    10) An alien-inhabited human becomes less vulnerable to disease and trauma.
 
        And so on.
 
    Now on the other hand, there are differences:
 
     1) The book is a search for the bad guy, who is hiding, while the
        book is an action adventure chase, and the bad guy is definitely
        not hiding.
     2) In the book, the aliens are amorphous, and in the movie they are
        slug-like (though calling this a difference is generous perhaps).
     3) In the book the focus is on the good-guy alien and his host,
        while in the movie the focus is on other human collaborators of
        the good-guy-plus-host.
     4) In the book a host may survive possession, in the movie it does not.
     5) In the book no working artifacts survive landing, in the movie
        the good guy retains an advanced weapon.
     6) The book tells its story by focusing on the mundane details of
        the search, while the movie was largely composed of chase scenes.
     7) There is essentially no dialogue or specific events in common,
        and the movie introduces several gratuitous "alien powers" that
        the book does not.
        
        And so on.
 
    But, I just can't imagine that the the points of similarity are
coincidence.  They may be unintentional, but so many detailed
background points in common is just too much for me to swallow. 
 
    "When The Cow MOOS... udders TREMBLE!"

            --- The Cow, speaking to Madame Marsupial
                (from The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse)

Wayne Throop      <the-known-world>!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!throopw

A blantant item that was omitted in the net article.  Weren't both good guys
actually described as 'policemen' who trailed the bad guy to Earth?  I did not
see the movie.

-Joe

      re -1:
    
    In the movie there was one police office and one federal agent.
    And since you haven't seen the movie, 'nuf said.
    
    ***mild spoiler***
    
    
      re .0:
    
    I was under the impression that the two aliens were from different
    races.  Remember the jail scene, where the bad guy says something
    to the effect of "The Alterians are an ugly race"?  I thought he
    was trying to goad the good guy into making a mistake (like sticking
    his head out so it could get blown off!)

    Just saw The Hidden on videotape, and liked it quite a bit.  Kind
    of too bad it was touted as 'horror' rather than as SF, it probably
    would have been worth seeing on the big screen.
    
    Willie