Conference noted::sf

	The original "V" will be rerun at the end of April (29-30 I think).

	The new 6-hour conclusion will be run 6-8 May.


bob

Isn't this in book form, also?  Does the book include ``the new 6-hour
conclusion''?

Jim Stratton

Yes, the book does contain the entire 10 hours.  (I just picked up the book
last night).

				*** Kristy ***

   I saw the ad for the conclusion last night but I still haven't seen anything 
about the first parts being reshown.

    I sure hope they do reshow them.  I can't remember anything but broad 
outlines and a few scattered details from the first showing.

tlh

For the benefit of Tracey and anyone else who doesn't have time to read the 
first section of the book "V" before next Sunday, here is a capsule summary of 
"What Has Gone Before."

******************** SPOILER WARNING! *** SPOILER WARNING! *******************

The following summary will spoil the suspense of watching the first two 
episodes of "V."  If you haven't already seen them, don't read it unless you 
are sure you're not going to see them.

Huge saucer shaped ships appear in the skies over Earth's major cities.  [This
reminded me strongly of Arthur Clarke's CHILDHOOD'S END.]  A voice from the 
ship over New York requests a meeting with the Secretary General of the U.N. 
atop the U.N. building at a certain time.  At the appointed hour, a small 
shuttle decends from the mother ship, lands on the roof, and the S.-G. is 
invited inside.  As the whole world watches, he emerges moments later with 
"John," the leader of the aliens, who appears entirely human, but wears 
sunglasses because, as he explains, the eyes of his people are used to less 
light than earthpeople.  Only his strange voice distinguishes him from a 
human. 

John explains that his people need certain chemicals to support their planet, 
which they can no longer manufacture for themselves.  They ask the Earth's 
help in producing these chemicals, in return for which they will teach the 
earthpeople their technology.  Everyone is happy and agreeable, and very few 
are suspicious.

A virtual army of Visitor (as the aliens come to be known) technicians and
engineers decend from the ships and start directing various construction
operations.  An accident occurs at one chemical plant, exposing several human
workers to extreme cold.  They are rescued by an alien (the only truly nice
one we meet, as it turns out), who is entirely undamaged, though the humans
are badly injured. 

A TV reporter is asked by the Visitors to be their spokeswoman.  She is
extremely flattered and accepts, putting aside her journalistic fairness and
responsibility.  A cameraman who she is friendly with is becoming suspicious
of the Visitors, and tries to dissuade her.  He decides to try to find out
what's really going on. 

The Visitors plant "evidence" that Earth's scientists have been withholding 
vitally needed discoveries from society in order to profit from research 
money.  Just before the technology transfer seminars for the scientists are 
scheduled to begin, this evidence is "discovered," and the Visitors start 
quietly directing a pogrom against Earth's best and brightest.  Human
scientists and engineers are forced to go underground in order to survive. 
[I found this scenario frightening realistic.]

Our hero the cameraman sneaks aboard the Visitors flagship with his camera and 
discovers that the Visitors are really sentient reptiles who eat live prey.  
They have covered themselves in an artifical "skin" in order to appear human.
He also discovers their true purpose:  to steal Earth's water, and to capture 
humans to take back to their planet for food and slave labor.  The chemical 
plants are just a cover for this scheme, and of course, the Visitors never 
intended to share their technology with Earth.

The Visitors' beautiful chief scientist is in reality a sadistic reptile.  She 
enlists the aid of one of the male aliens with whom a young earthgirl has 
fallen in love.  The girl is impregnated and held captive as an experiment to 
see what the offspring will be like.

In the middle of the night, the Visitors raid a small Midwestern town and 
force it's entire population aboard shuttles.  The humans are frozen aboard 
the motherships for transport back to the Visitors' planet.

While all this is going on, a resistance movement has formed, consisting of
doctors, scientists, engineers and others who don't believe that the Visitors
are benevolent.  There are several important characters:  

- a blonde who slowly becomes the leader, Princess Leia-style.  She has been
hit in the hip by a Visitor blaster, and now walks with a cane. 

- an elderly Jewish man who was a resistance fighter in World War II.  It is 
he who defines the symbol of the resistance:  a red "V" spray painted over 
propaganda posters of smiling Visitors.

- a young urban black whose successful brother, a doctor, is killed by the 
Visitors.

There are lots of skirmishes between the Visitors and the resistance.
Eventually the cameraman steals a Visitor shuttle and arrives just in the nick
of time to save the mountain headquarters of the resistance from a Visitor
attack.  This is the first real victory for the resistance, and during the
battle, the chief scientist's "skin" is damaged, and we see her as she really
is. 

The resistance has discovered that the Visitors have an enemy out in space.  
Though they don't know anything else about them, they attempt to contact them 
by beaming out a coded message from an observatory, in the hope that an enemy 
of the Visitors will prove to be a friend of Earth.

At this point our saga ends.

[I'm sure I left out a lot of details, and some of this may be distorted.  
Others may be able to fill in the gaps.]

					-- Roger

I didn't are a whole hell of a lot for the original 4 hours when I saw it last
time, though I might have watched the rerun if I'd been home. I'll probably
watch the rest of it when it's on. The only important point I remember that
Roger fails to mention is that there were Human-sympathizers among the Visitors
who helped the cameraman in his efforts.

I've seen the book around, but I've been somewhat put of by the promo that the
author, A. C. Crispin, is a "best-selling" author. Well, she *is*, but only
because her only previous effort was a Star Trek novel.

---jayembee (Jerry Boyajian)

Well, I saw (and taped) the first episode of "The Final Battle".  It's just
as hokey and self-inconsistent as the original "V" was, but if it teaches
some people that "Yes, this could happen to me", then it has served some
purpose.  (I'm referring to the super-obvious parallel to the Nazis, wight
(right) down to a swastika.)

					Steve

P.S.  I'd hate to see a shootout between the Visitor troopers and
Imperial Stormtroopers from SW: they'd hit everything in sight but each other.

My husband and I have taped 8 out of the 10 hours of "V" and are anxiously
awaiting tonight's episode.  I admit, it does have some weak points, but 
some goods points do exist; like good vs. evil, suspense up to your ears,
and a little bit of romance/caring, etc.  Add those qualities up and you'll
get a whole heck of a lot of people glued (not literally) to their sets
waiting to see what happens next.  I have to admit, after seeing last night's
episode, I'm not too sure I ever want to get pregnant again!

			*** Kristy ***
		(No...I'm not married to a lizard...a MicroVax maybe...)

The Return of the Battle for the Conquest of the Revenge of the Escape from
Beneath the Planet of the Nazi Space Lizards, Part II --- The Sequel

	Well, I taped the whole thing, but I don't think that I'll keep it.
For one, two or three times, my cable blitzed the picture for a few seconds,
for two, NBC put one of those stupid running foots along the screen about the
primaries (when only a minute beforehand, they were in commercials), and for
three, minus the commercials, each of the two-hour-gross episodes were 1-1/2-
hour-net, and I used an L-830 when an L-750 would have been sufficient.
	As to the content. I have to agree that it was about on the same level
as the original film. Very frustrating. It wasn't very good, but it was *just
good enough* that it was extremely irritating that it was't a whole lot better.
It just missed the mark. If it wasn't for the scientific idiocies (eg. a rep-
tilian creature from another planet able to mate with a human being? We can't
even cross-breed with other primates, for pete's sake) or the hoary sci-fi cliches
(reptile men try to conquer Earth to steal water and eat human beings), this
might have been a lot better movie. At least they toned down the subtle-as-a-
sledgehammer Nazi analogies.

---jayembee (Jerry Boyajian)

V The final Battle.....   All those of you reading this who run the
films track at science fiction conventions should get the last 2hour
episode of this movie.  It's well up there with Attack of The Killer
Tomatoes as a late night turkey.

This film annoyed me. It was so badly done; the effects were up to the
standard of the old Gerry Anderson puppet shows, but, unfortunately, so
was the acting and the script. (I assume that they had a script, although the
lst 30 minutes of the last episode may prove me wrong).

And this is what the great unwashed american public (eg, my mother-in-law)
thinks we science fiction enthusiasts enjoy!

Argh
Nigel

ps: By the end, I wanted the lizards to win.

   I didn't think it was *that* bad.  Sure it's not up to the standards of 
the things that I read, but it was good mindless entertainment.  I was mainly 
disappointed in the end.  Elizabeth and her magic critical mass dispersing 
hands leave a lot to be explained.  Oh well,  maybe we'll find out more about
her in ...

   "V: The *Really* Final Battle"

You can't tell me there won't be a sequel.  Shawn is running around converted to
the bad lizards.  Darth Va... I mean Diana is on the loose.  The world is 
flooded with bacteria and no on e knows how long the good lizards antidote will
last.  (Not to mention the fact that the tests on the effects on humans were 
less than rigorous.)  And then there's Elizabeth...
   Stayed tuned for the next adventure of "v"...

tlh

re. 11 - maybe they should title it "V: The Battle to End All Battles"
         after all, there's a precedent;

re. 10 - Why pick on Killer Tomatoes?  That was *intentionally* funny.
         I enjoyed its spoofing of many an old SF movie cliche.

					John

Ah, now we discover that "The Final Battle" is only beginning, and it's the
battle to get sensible, competent, enjoyable science fiction on TV. Millions
(well, maybe dozens) of science fiction fans vs. the reptillian forces of
network television. Unfortunately, a little red dust won't make them go
away.

Still, you can put thinking on "hold" and enjoy "V". It's at least as 
plausible as "UFO", "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", etc. The Union Leader
called it a "treat for sci fi fans", I believe. The only embarrassment is
that the leader of the reptiles is played by a former Miss New Hampshire.
So much for beauty contests...

Actually, most of the background matte paintings are very good. Anyone notice
the credit for these?

jdo

There were so many inconsistencies that it sort of ruined my enjoyment
of it.

1) At the end of part 2, they were screaming in horror over the lizard
   baby, and within 5 minutes of the start of part 3 they felt sorry for it
2) Where did they get the facilities to produce the tons of red dust that
   were dropped from balloons all over the world? How did they get it to
   these other poeple in other countries?
3) Is it possible for a bacteria to kill you in two seconds?
4) How come on a ship as large as the mother ship, there were only about 
   nine lizards on the whole ship?
5) What happened to Elizabeth's lizard tongue?

I could go on all day.

Charlie

	RE: .11

	Entertainment  Tonight  (They Never Lie!) has given advanced word of
	NBC's fall schedule and "V" is on it as an hour series (the original
	presentation plan).

	The  novelization  of "V" has a better version of Elizabeth's world-
	saving  schtick.  She  does some programming magic to put the Killer
	Kaboom  Program  into "an infinite loop".  It's not Shakespeare, but
	it  beats  "turning sparkly" (as my daughter put it when she stomped
	off to bed, pissed at the deux ex machina <YOU SPELL IT!> ending).


bob "I think I just gave new meaning to the phrase 'parenthetical expression"
collins

.10 Actually, I thought the special effects were quite well done. not to the level
of ILM, perhaps, but certainly acceptable.

.11 As far as the bio-toxin test on humans goes, there was a scene in which one of
the rebels remarks that it was safe for humans, and another said, "Yeah, and that's
what they said about DDT and dioxin." So it *was* a considered a long-range

<whoops>
possible long-range problem. They really didn't have that much choice, though.
	Was I the only one to notice that the other 49 or so ships got away with
their load of water and human beings?

.12 Well, John, I can understand your defense of ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES. As
you well know, I liked it, too. But, after seeing on cable a few months ago (and
taping it), I have to admit that regardless of its intent, it was still a badly
produced movie.

.14 Well, I hate to be an apologist for this thing, but...
	(1) There seemed to be some amount of time between the end of the second
part, and the beginning of the third. Their horror at seeing the baby lizard was
most likely largely due to shock surprise. They probably got used to it. Look how
easy it took the mother to decide she loved Eliza(rd)beth, despite the latter's
forked tongue.
	(2) Who knows how they manufactured all that red dust? This is certainly
no more silly than the coordination of launcching millions of balloons all over
the planet at once.
	(3) Yes.
	(4) Well, we only *saw* nine lizards at any given time. Surely there were
more.
	(5) Who said anything happened to her tongue? They were obviously very
careful not to let her (or any of the lizards' for that matter) human tongue
show.

Question: How many people noticed that the other female commander (Pamela) was
played by Sarah Douglas, who was Ursa in SUPERMAN II?

---jayembee (Jerry Boyajian)

Perhaps I should elaborate about the bacteria. As far as I know, there is
no known bacteria that can kill you in two seconds (actually, the anti-
Visitor bacteria took a bit longer than two seconds, more like a minute).
However, there are a couple of chemical toxins that can kill you in that
short a time, so I would guess that it's theoretically possible for a
bacterium to do the same.

re: .15  Actually, I was taken aback by the glowing bit. I thought that she
*was* going to pull some de-programming trick. Either that or do something
*really* silly, like simply pull the keys out.

---jayembee (Jerry Boyajian) [in temporary exile to AKOV75::]

I rather liked "V," actually.  Overall, it was pretty well done.  Especially
for TV.  To address one of the complaints earlier on, about how the
reptile and human could have a baby ... I've been reading the book (half
way through now -- and still in last year's show!), and it expands on the
background of that a bit.  This was Diana's `experiment,' and involved a
fair amount of lab work with Brian (the father) beforehand.  It was fairly
obvious that this included external work to make his sexual equipment
compatible, and reasonably certain that genetic work was involved, as well.
I think it's reasonable to assume that a good enough genetic engineer could
probably come up with a modified alien sperm-like crittur which might do
the job.  Another point - while everyone assumes that they are reptilian,
how do we know that for sure?  No one actually says that except the rebels
(based solely on the skin and eyes).  For all we know they could actually
be mammals, and relatively similar to humans.

In any case, you can get around most of the flaws (except for Elizabeth's
nuke-swallowing act, anyway) with a little open mindedness.  Which is no
less than can be said for most other SF movies ... ESPECIALLY for TV, where
the competition makes "V" look better than ST II by comparison ...

	/dave

[From the AP Newswire]

   ``V,'' the high-rated miniseries that was broadcast in May of
1983 and had a successful sequel this month, will return Marc
Singer, Faye Grant and Jane Badler to the series. The show will
anchor NBC's Friday nights, where the network has been floundering
throughout the 1980s. NBC introduced an entire new slate of Friday
programs twice this past season.

[Now, some flames of my own]

Like others, I watched and taped the whole of "The Final Battle".  I
don't think I'll keep the tape, though; I'm not sure I'd want to tie up
$16 worth of tape for it.  My overall opinion was that it was worth watching,
but incredibly silly.

Some of the points that bothered me (and a few others, obviously):

1.  Considering the amount of testing that the "toxin" got, I can imagine
    a sequel two weeks in the future where all of the humans on the Earth are
    dead.  Ya see, while the toxin killed the visitors in 2 seconds, it took
    maybe 8 or 9 days for humans.  Aw, gee.

2.  What is Darth Vader, oops, Diana going to do now?  She can't set foot on
    Earth because the toxin will kill her.  Maybe she can catch up with
    her fleet in her little TIE fighter?  Maybe she can concoct an antidote.
    Anyway, I didn't think you could have vaccines against bacteria.

3.  Where is the precedent for Elizabeth?  Not only did she do the sparkle
    bit at the end, but her growth from a 7 pound baby to a 7-year old just
    defies all reason!  (Then again, it isn't quite so strange when I look
    at my 5-month old son who's the size of a 1-year old..)  And who
    taught her alien-speak anyway?  Diana certainly wouldn't have used the
    word "peace" for anything.  Besides, EVERYBODY spoke English, even
    such obvious colloquialisms such as a "Code 9 alert", etc.  (Perhaps
    the previous 8 failed: see also "Plan 9 From Outer Space".)

4.  What are the various mixed couples going to do?  Are they all going to
    have twin monsters?

5.  Earth now has a spaceship.  I wonder what they'll do with it.

I must admit I was surprised in one respect.  I fully expected the day to
be saved by the Visitors being attacked by new and different aliens, perhaps
Han Solo.  Remember that at the end of the original "V" they were beaming a
message out from a radio-telescope.  Of course, said message would take over
4 years just to reach the nearest star, so help might be a while in coming.
					Steve

Anyone note the similarity between this and the Twilight Zone 'To Serve Man'?
It was on last night. Story line:

Space ships appear above earth and a spokesman wants to talk to the Secrety
General of the UN.  They offer technology to earth in exchange for nothing.
Before leaving, he drops a book on a table.  So US gets cryptologists on it,
only to find that a) it's difficult but the get the title (To Serve Man) and 
b) after a while of peace and plenty, only one person is interested in
deciphering it.  Meanwhile people are taking long vacations to their home
planet. As the main character of the story is about to board, the girl
(doing the deciphering) runs up and yells that it was a cookbook.  End of
story.  No word as to whether bad guys leave or there is war or what.

RE: .17

From the early days of our chemical warfare efforts I remember reading that
the bacterium Clostridium botulinum secretes the toxin botulin which is
supposed to be something like 100,000 times more toxic to the human body
than cyanide gas, both in their puest form.  I don't remember how long they
said it would take to kill you, but it was probably only minutes.  It is
also a vetry painful death - botulin is resposible for botulism, which is
more commonly known as food poisoning.

	Mike

re: .19

Yeah, I wondered about that, too. I seemed to recall that at the end of the
first movie, there was a plan to get in touch with the alien enemies of the
Space Nazi Lizards. Then, in "The Final Battle", there wasn't a word said
about them. Even a simple, "We can't wait for an answer; we might all be
dead by then." would have been sufficient.

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian)

It would be nice to have more of the couple dozen loose ends tied up. Tho
it is supposed to be more "realistic", leaving a lot of characters and sit-
uations unresolved deliberately so that you can have a (sequel/series/prequel/
bunch of greeting cards/book/crossword puzzle) is sometimes unsatisfying,
particularly if you don't care about the (sequel/series/etc.).

(Can you imagine friendship cards with the Visitors' poster? "Friendship is
Universal"?)

Did anyone notice how closely the shots of the "unbelievers" in the Toyota
commercial resembled the Visitors?

I agree I tend to use a visual shorthand- any creature having scales, yellow
eyes with slit pupils, an extensible forked tongue, and a tendancy to  eat
live prey whole I would label as "reptillian", not "mammalian". Alien species
may indeed look much different than any earthly prototypes, although I tend
to think convergent evolution may limit this somewhat. I'm not so sure that
aliens would have even remotely similar set of amino acids or protein struc-
tures. Or what their motives for hybridizing themselves with their food
animals would be. ("Gee, if we could only have man-cows"?). One possible
explanation for it all might be that the Visitors have terrible identity
problems, and assuming the disguise of an alien creature, such as homo sapiens,
makes them want to BE homo sapiens (clothes make the man- er, alien). But I
suspect this is more likely ordinary human chauvanizm by the human writers.

John O

re .20
"To Serve Man" is a Damon Knight short story, from which the Twilight
Zone episode was derived.

It's a good story, and slightly different from the TZ episdoe (which was
also good)

re .23:  I, too, noticed the resemblance between the Toyota Skeptics turned
Believers and the Visitors.  

				*** Kristy ***

This is from the page after the last page of the actual story in the paperback
version of V (``the terrifying novel based on the full, ten-hour NBC-TV
miniseries''), with a first printing of May, 1984:

COMING IN SEPTEMBER!

The alien forces hold all of Earth in an iron grip of repression and terror.

But as long as one human soul struggles to resist, hope remains alive.

The resistance grows as the saga continues in ...

V - East Coast Crisis

by A. C. Crispin and Howard Weinstein

Re my previous response:

This seems inconsistent with the end of the book/10-hour series.

Or perhaps they meant ``November'' and were referring to politics...

Jim

It's possible that the new book will be taking place at the same
time [as the mini-series-&-novel] but with a different set of
characters in a different location (I must admit I was curious
about what other people elsewhere were up to; after all, Tyler
did mention the existence of other resistance groups that were
tied together).

---jayembee (Jerry Boyajian)

I don't think that it would make much of a series if the Earth is truly
rid of the Visitors (except for Diana), so I will presume that the victory
celebrations are only temporary.
					Steve

I just discovered this notes file (hence this rather outdated note!). My
14 year old daughter Heather is crazy about all aspects of the "V" series,
and would be eternally grateful to anyone who could supply any information
for her "V" file which she is creating. This includes: articles, adver-
tisements, posters, books, blurbs, pictures, or any information as to
where and how these could be obtained. She's hungry for anything at this
point, no matter how small or inconsequential. (This notes file is already
in her folder/collection.)

Also, she just bought and read the new V book - V: East Coast Crisis. She
says it does take place at the same time as the miniseries, but in New
York instead of California.  It also explains in greater detail the
production and distribution of the toxin, as well as how communications
between the different resistance groups were set up and maintained. She
says it all sounds fairly reasonable.

P.S.
I found the series interesting but scientifically too farfetched.

Just re-read some of the comments regarding V.  Boy, some of you
were rather harsh on V.  I thought it was brilliant...
Anyway, thought you may be interested to hear of a V homepage
that now exists.

it's URL is   http://www.crl.com/~jase/html/vhome.html


Andy.