Conference noted::hackers_v1

Matt,
I'm not sure exactly what position you currently hold, but I'm guessing from 
your node addres that you are an Operator - and it appears that you want to 
become a S/W Engineer I (J15).  In DEC, without a BS degree, to become a J15 
you must pass the Engineering Review Board (ERB).  The ERB is a group of 
selected engineers who, more or less, test you and decide if you are qualified 
to become a J15.  An ERB is being assembled now for my benefit, I am not a 
S/W Eng either.  My current title is Release Engineer III, but I have been 
working as a developer, with all resposibilities of a J15, for over a year 
now (and have been programming in DEC for about 3 years).  If I'm on the right 
track, let me know, and I'll tell you how I went about making the 
transformation from Operator to Software Engineer.	-Don Mac

    Have you considered Software Services.  I am a Senior Software
    Specialist and I dont have a degree either.  I know of several other
    Specialists who started as Secrataries ...  If this is the route
    you want to go, get some books on programming (C and Pascal might
    be good choices) and play.  If you have the opportuinity, you might
    also learn Datatrieve and All-in-One.  Then after you can do some
    basic things, find someone who will hire you.  (I came from Field
    Service but had a machine to play with).  The big thing is to get
    knowledge and skill in a needed area.  Good areas now would be Unix,
    Data Bases and Networking.
    
    The above are the ramblings of a deranged Fortran and RSX Hacker.
    
    Larry

    Get Data Structures down pat.  Know all about arrays, trees, and
    linked lists, and get good at writing code that uses them.

    Write lots of code; lots of small, slightly non-trivial programs.
    Lots of code; using arrays, trees, and linked lists.  It helps
    if the interfaces to the routines are well-designed and re-usable.
    I.e., hack.

    Help lots of beginning programmers with machine problems.  This
    will give you some skills in telling what's good, and what's bad,
    and after a while, you'll learn how to write code that's obvious.

    Write one perfect program or set of routines.  Does everything you'd
    want from it, as fast as possible, completely bug-free, and easily
    understandable.  For example, *the* quintessential solution to some
    machine problem.

    Keep a diary of how you spend your time.

    Write some readable documentation.  You'll spend considerable time
    writing specs, memos, proposals, and so on.

    Most of what I know about VMS and programming comes from being willing
    to spend all nighters hacking once in a while (situation similar to .2,
    from FS and had a machine available, plenty of available nights when
    you work for FS).  I am still in the office after 8 or 9 most nights
    playing with one personal project or another.
    
    I have had no really formal training in computer programming.  I
    took a computer course in high school where we learned BASIC, FORTRAN
    and assembly on the PDP-8/E.  Took another course covering the same
    on a PDP-11 while in tech school.  There I learned the basics about
    programming (which is essentially what you'll learn in college courses)
    but the real experience comes from sitting down at a terminal and
    putting together some useful code, learn the system services and
    RTL routines, etc.
    
    tom_p

Another way of getting started in non-trivial code is to take someone else's
code and fix it or extend it.  One of the ways I learned about asynchronous
stuff on a VAX was to take another person's communication program (sort
of like SET HOST/DTE before that existed in VMS), figure out why it was
such a CPU hog, and fix it.

Burns

    
    RE: all
    
    	Thanks for all the information.  I have been studying lexical
    functions for about a week, and am going to start on the RTL book
    after that.  I've been hitting some other notesfiles as well, looking
    for ways to expand my knowlege even more.  I'm hoping to become
    a constant contributor to this file, when I get my head outta' the
    books and know enough to contribute.  Internal (non-destructive)
    hacking really interests me, and I'm hoping to find out as much
    as I can about it.  Thanks again, and hope you all have or had a
    Happy Easter.
    
    Matt :^)

    There is a program in DIS called the Programmer Training Program.
    (PTP) It is managed by a guy named John  Hopkins at the Concord,
    MA facility (VRO). I think it runs for about 13 weeks. The end result
    is you get classified as a programmer/analyst D??. Give john a call
    for more detail.
    
    Joe
    
    

    re: .7
    
    	Thanks.  That sounds interesting.  ( Hmmm...now if I could only
    get the Boss to bite on sending me there, I should be all set. :^) )
    
    Matt :^)