Conference noted::hackers_v1

re .0

Sheesh, where do these jerks come from!!! Listen jerk, Hacking is not breaking
into systems where you are not meant to be. Doing same is contrary to your
employement contract and could get you fired tommorrow. You wan't to become
a better hacker. Then read the following. It describes how a hacker thinks
and might give you a better idea of what you are talking about.

You sound not like a hacker, but more like a malicious practical joker.

	"To be a real hacker means to dedicate a substantial part of your
life to the advancement of a technology..."

	"To be a real hacker means to make a magnificent obsession of creating
some effect previously unknown..."

	Leo Felsenstein 1985 (excerpt from a quote in CTnotes)


If you wan't to learn to hack

1. Learn the morals of hacking and don't befoul the name by claiming to
be a hacker until you do.

2. Stick you nose in a VMS manual set and don't come out until you have
invented something innovative and worthwhile.

flame off...

.1:  Right!

.0:
The real hacker is creative, not destructive or intrusive. The
real hacker is creative because he knows and understands details and
intricacies of the system few, if any, other people do, and because he
gets pleasure from the invention of interesting devices which are
useful, or might conceivably be useful even if just for instruction.

Read "Hacker" by Steven Levy, "The Existential Pleasures of
Engineering" by Samuel Florman, and "The Inventions of Daedalus" by
David E.H. Jones, to get a broad appreciation of the kinds of things
that can be done or imagined, and why.

Anyway, there's probably nothing you'll find very interesting on the
net if you're just wandering around snooping.

			---Walter

			This file's for hacking, not cracking.
			If, on the other hand, you're just looking for some free
		software to play with, send mail to METOO::TOOLSHED to learn how
		to get into the toolshed.  There's also the Usenet net.sources
		newsgroup.
				<_Jym_>

I think you guys have been hacked. Note .0 is just too sleazy to be true.
I think he's putting you on...

Etymological note:
------------------

re: .4
That makes me feel really hacked off. Maybe I just can't hack it any more.
(Incidentally I have a hacking cough at the moment)

Nigel

Just after I read this note, my Notary entry for HACKERS turned into
CTNOTES.

I think I've been hacked, too.

Martin_with_yet_another_hacking_cough.

		The hack with it.
					-OWJ

	Cracking is easy but dull and uncreative.

	-John

re 193.8
	HA!

	I once wrote something of that sort. The interesting part
was the hacks to get the remote O.S. type. Once you have that the
rest is easy.

	Needless to say, it is not available for general
distribution.

 Now hold on a minute. I think (If he/she was really serious in .0) I 
know how he/she feels.. I use to get bored just exploring around the
system stuff on Vaxen (Sys$system,[sysmgr],[syslib] etc....) always
got upset over lack of privs or file prot falures. As was mentioned in a 
previous reply the Toolshed is an great place to hack around, but such
hackers who install software on there system seem doomed for the old 
Sys$managers you can't do that chat.
 I think instead of jump all over this person you should advise(as was said
before) some Vms stuff for him to check out. I for one have access to 4.2
manuals but seem lost as to what to explore.I think some of the readers
and writers of this notes file know more about what is really interesting 
to people like myself and other hackers. So whatta say give us a few hints
I'm still stuck in the glossary. Also maybe some help for those less
fortunate people who don't have a doc set. I think that Vtx still 
has online doc set don't they....


		#3HACK
		#4HACK

	"To be a real hacker means to make a magnificent obsession
	of creating some effect previously unknown..."

		Leo Felsenstein 1985 (excerpt from a quote in CTnotes)

(yes, it already appeared in .1, but I really like it).

Want to create a great hack?  Determine who's got a file or record locked.

re -.1  That's easy...  $sho dev/file Dxxx...

                                                al

	...yup, -.1 will usually do the job!!!

	...Suggestion on VMS manuals... theGuide to creating command
procedures is interesting, and studying the use of Lexicals, are
good places to start. Of big help also, is looking at some of the
sources that are available both in this notesfile, and in the TOOLSHED.
Reading the orange manuals for any length of time can be dull...
using them in tandem with a working source makes learning faster.
(at least for me)

	-John

RE .13
	Thanks!  That helps, but how 'bout telling me which node(s)
	of my cluster I should do that from?

	Also, which of these processes has that record locked?

well I guess I was misunderstood by most of the people at the begining of
this file I don't want to be destructive or anything like that just wanted 
some info about things like toolshed. You know you people should not jump
down someones throt like you did to me i am just trying to learn more about
VMS and some of the neat things that you can do with it. I am not somekind of
software specialist like re:1 must be you know i almost didn't reply because
of the lashing i took from re: 1 and a few other people with big heads that 
might know more than i do but sure aren't willing to share their knowledge
with anyone else. 


now i would like to thank the people that got the just of this note and
really gave me some info that i could use and have a little more fun
in colorado 

                                       thanks guys,

                                             jac

Jac.....

In the future I suggest you be a little clearer in stating your objectives.

Not only did you insult the professionalism that most of the "hackers" in
this notesfile associate with themselves, but you raised the eyebrows of
several of us who work in various system and network security areas 
throughout the company.

.....Don.....

Jac...

 Congrats, welcome to the hackers ranks you did one thing hackers are
always doing (Re:-1) "Raised some eyebrows".

                        Keep on Hackin
				HACK

As was suggested in .14, the VMS Guide to Creating Command Procedures is
good place to start.  You should also have the Command Language DCL Dictionary
handy as well.

Dale_whos_A_Colorado_hacker_too

re: .17

 Don in all fairness I guess you are right, I reread my note and do see how
it could have been misunderstood and yes raised some eyebrows. I am sorry for
the mix up and in the future will try to make my notes better understood by
all. 


 Now that all that is settled is there anyone that can tell me how to get
into the toolshed ? What is in the toolshed ? Is it ok for anyone to use it ?
and one last stupid question What is it ?. I have to say that sitting down
and reading the VMS manual is pretty boring all though I have already learned
alot from it and do plan to keep at it. I really hope that I will be excepted
into this file as re: 19 has said I really think that this file has alot of
people using it that I could learn alot from if they are willing to answer some 
of my (novice) questions. One more thing before I get out of here where can I
get a DCL command dictionary??

                                                  happy hackin,

                                                       jac

re .16

Me? A Software Specialist... I resent that remark. I thought SW SPecs and
Hackers were Generally Mutually exclusive. (Watch the bites from that comment).

As for the Toolshed ( re.-1) I is also known as the Software tools
clearinghouse and is located on node METOO::. Send mail to METOO::TOOLSHED
to get the Login Details. Any one in DEC can use it and the tools therin
so long as they are not given or shown or sold to Customers. THere is a
notesfile about the toolshed in METOO::sys$notes:toolshed.not.

Looking forward to seeing some good hacks from you...

I'll be the first to bite at .21.  

I agree but there is but there is always the exception to 
prove the rule :-).  Anyways, any real hacker abhors being 
called a SW spec; how about SW engineer?

Hacking on (and on and ...),
matt (the mad hacker)

What's this crap about real hackers not wanting to be called SW specialists?

Some of the best hackers this company ever had were Software Specialists.
Consider the RT11 emulator for RSTS/E, done by Cal Thomas: it single-handedly
created a large part of the RSTS/E market: to the great disgust of top-level
management.

Consider the RSTS/E disk copy utility I did: it copied RP04 packs during
timesharing.  When the backup problem became serious, someone in VMS-land
was chartered to survey what was available and what needed to be done.
My program turned out to be fastest.  I modestly claimed that I wrote
it in Basic-Plus to get the speed.

The primary function of the SW specialist was to hack together the junk
built by engineering and the amazing beliefs of sales and marketing
into something that would actually work on the customer site.

Martin Minow
ex Software Specialist

ps: Before denigrating SW specialists, you might want to talk with
the VAX NOTES people, who discovered what happens when a popular
new product is released.  At the very least, read the entire
VAX NOTES (volume 1) notesfile.

Martin.

I was not denigrating SW specialists, but the term of "SW specialist" itself.
I have a lot of respect for SW specs (but there are exceptions ...) but I
dislike the job title of Software Specialist.  Just an irrational response,
I suppose.  I prefer job titles of Systems Engineer, Software Engineer, guru,
hacker, Consultant, etc. but Software Specialist.  YUUUKKK!!!  It doesn't
mean anything or convey any information (though I suppose the same could
be said for Field Service Engineer, maybe).

Enough ranting and raving
matt

			I understand that at least one DECcie has the title
		"Files Wizard" on their business card . . .
				<_Jym_>

Re: .21

You must not confuse 'Job Title' with 'Actual Profession'.  My
business card says 'Software Specialist' but everyone calls me
'Hacker'.  My job as a 'Software Specialist' gives me access to the
machines I need in order to hack.  Therefore, I don't see the two
as mutually exclusive.

tom_p

ps.  Plan on coming back to the states again?  Been a long time
since Simon's party...

Apologies to Martin, Tom and any other previous or current Software Specialist
who rates as a Hacker. I was just gut-reacting to the profusion of SW Specs
I end supporting because their total knowledge of Software is how to drive
All-in-1 and write DCL Command Procedures.

I am now in a Hardware Business Tech Support Group here in Australia, and
by some strange quirk of Fate, our charter includes supporting the Software
Presales Organization. In many cases, I end up supporting people who have
the relevant manuals when I don't... THere are some top notch people in
SWS but there are also a few too many whose expertise is more bluff than
bite.

When my new boss asked me what I wanted on my Business Card, I said
"Technocrat", he walked away muttering but we still haven't finalized my
Job Title.

re your PS, TOM.

Yes, I would love to get back there. The new job was supposed to include
2 trips per year, but I can see those slowly disappearing into oblivion.

I could handle another of the late night bull sessions we had at Simon's
party, although I think Simon might object to us keeping him up to the wee
hours. I'd also like to see more of the U.S. and perhaps at a different
time of year. March was sort of bleak in New Hamshire, especially with al
the funny white lawns in peoples' gardens. :-)

I shall have to start beating up on the boss again soon.

Q

I saw a business card for a man whose title was

"Director of Core Dumps"

/joel

I tried to get "Senior Software Generalist" as my job title.  Seems I specialize
in anything that runs on 16 and 32 bit processors.

Larry "Super SWS" Wakeman

	I have a DEC business card in front of me which says :-

		Per HAMNQVIST
	      certified  hacker
                         
(but I have not had the guts to put something like that on my own)

	Dave

I remember once seeing a card as follows:



	+---------------------------------------+
	|					|
	|					|
	|					|
	|		My Card			|
	|					|
	|					|
	+---------------------------------------+
                
Larry

re: .15... the sh dev/files command will get you the PID. Then either
do a SHO SYS to identify the user that has a file locked, or
do a sho proc/cont/id=<PID#> to get more info on what is being done.

	-John

    re: .33 [re: .15] ... and then use SDA> SHOW PROC/CHAN <process>
    to see what files are open on each channel.  Can also show locks
    to a file and SEARCH the file for the PID.

re: .33,.34
You STILL haven't dealt with his problem:  Someone in a 10-node cluster has
the file locked.  Find him.

re:  Business cards
Anton Chernoff - now THERE'S a hacker, though it's distressing that by now,
if you remember Anton's days as DEC, you're a real old timer - is listed as
a "Software Thaumaturge" on his business card.
							-- Jerry

    Is he the Digicalc guy?  I didn't think I was that old!
    
    Burns
    

    Yes, he's the Digicalc guy.