Conference noted::hackers_v1

See also a recent issue of REASON magazine (I don't remember which one;
sometime this year) which has a coverstory on the subject.

It seems unions try to stop any form of work at home -- since they can't
get their grubby hands on it.  And unfortunately they may still have
enough politicians in their pockets to pull it off.

	Paul

Well, I'll be the first to say that the report was a bloody disappointment.
"Clerical" work at home.  Unless they think programming is clerical work,
it was hardly what I expected.

I could *swear* that 60 Minutes said they were against programming at home
at the end of the "little old ladies who know sweaters in Vermont" story.

Feel free to continue the discussion, but I hope I didn't disrupt anyone's
schedule with this.
				/AHM/SIGH

It was kind of disappointing.   They billed it as "high-tech homework", and
it turned out to be house-wives who stay at home and:

	- handle JC Penny catalog orders, using a "high-tech" terminal
	  and a phone

	- Keypunch operators for insurance companies who get delivered
	  a stack of premiums to key in the AM, key from home all day,
	  and have them picked up at 5:00 pm.
	
	- Little old ladies in vermont who use knitting machines at 
	  home to make sweaters for piecework pay.

	- etc..etc

Apparently the company management feels they can pay these people less 
money and benefits because they only work part time, and "don't incur
the risks and expenses" of traveling to work every day.  Unions cry
"slave labor".

In some ways I agree with the management, but I wonder if its just because
I can't stand seeing unions trying to grasp at yet another straw, yet 
another chance to screw things up.

Rick

	This was very flamed about in Human-Nets a while back.  All I have
to say is this:  keep political flames and such in SOAPBOX.  10 Q.
		<_Jym_>

Consider what I, for one, thought I was going to hear in the news program.
If the AFL-CIO was indeed trying to make it illegal to not only do data
entry at home, but to also make it illegal for Digital to pay people to
program from home, it would have a large impact on the lives of a lot of
us.  Particularly those who suffer withdrawal whenever they go on vacation,
or are otherwise disconnected from their terminals.

If it was illegal for us to be doing some of our work at home, then we
could only use terminals provided by DEC for hacking.  Well, for one thing,
it would be pretty hard to enforce that kind of thing, and perhaps there
would be a "be safe" policy set which would cause the terminals to have to
go back to work.  After all, is DEC the kind of company that is going to
flaunt federal laws like "fair labor practices acts" and the like?  Also,
DEC gets tax deductions for R&D.  Probably on the VT52 mouldering in your
den, for instance.  If it is illegal for that terminal to be used for R&D
in your den, there is a lot less reason for DEC to invest money there.

How would *you* react to an attempt to pull your free terminal and modem?
				/AHM

But is 'working at home' and getting paid for it the same as 'working at
home' beyond your normal work?

If someone works at home during a vacation, then they are not 'working' at
home, they are making a 'donation' to DEC, and helping the company, but
not getting paid for it.  Even if DEC couldn't pay you extra to work at
home, taking away your terminal would still hurt the productivity you offer
to DEC, since much of the work you do on a home terminal you are not being
paid for anyway (directly--maybe a raise or promotion someday though).

Here in NY, most of us are NOT given home terminals, and so people either
stay in the office late, or they BUY one from DEC. I for one, cannot see 
why a DEC employee would ever buy a DEC PC, and then also WORK AT HOME
FOR DEC without at least being able to do THAT as part of their work.
I mean, to buy a DEC computer, and then work beyond the call of duty on
it FOR DEC, is like SELLING you the thread, so that you can then do extra
sewing for FREE FOR THE COMPANY. I am appalled when I hear that DEC employees
shell out their own money to buy a Rainbow, and then end up working on DEC
work at home with it anyway.  Maybe you guys in Engineering get terminals
at home, but here in the field, only SALESPEOPLE get Rainbows at home for
free (yes, that is true!). At least DEC does not have to worry about
salespeople doing extra work at home--- every time I have heard a rainbow
question from them it has either been about a game, or 'other personal
work' they do on it. I guess giving salespeople a rainbow at HOME helps
them to sell them in the OFFICE workplace?

I lose respect for this company every time they try to SELL ME one of their
computers. If they want to advertise, advertise to the customer base, not to
the employees. If they want to lend me a terminal (to work or play), then
that is fine. And no matter what, DEC should not DUMP its about-to-be-
discontinued stock on us (ie. remember the ROBIN addon for the VT100 or
the VT103?).

If anything, I would LIKE to work at home, and only then would I consider
buying my own terminal or PC to make that possible (and would increase
my productivity by working at my own environment rather than working in 
a cubicle with three other people!). But to SELL us terminals
so we can then work EXTRA (without extra pay) is appalling.

I am in Wage Category 4.  So is every other software engineer I know in DEC.
I do not fill out time cards.  My physical location, MR1-2 or 36 Green St,
does not determine whether I am working or not.  I often have the most
productive idea of the day shortly after I have started shampooing my
hair in the shower before going to work.

I would be setting myself up for a terrible amount of record keeping if I
had to keep track of when I was doing work for DEC whenever I was logged in.
It would not be practical for me to try to prove in court that I hadn't done
any work while at home.  It is far better for me never to have to try to.

I can work towards that by opposing laws that concern this aspect of my
life.  Other SWE's can do the same thing.
				/AHM

I was not recommending that you keep track of every time you use your
terminal for work versus not work. 

In the same way, I would not recommend that you include your showering time
as work time, even if you happen to come up with ideas while under the
shampoo.

Officially, all work done at home is a 'donation', especially if you
are still expected to be in the office 40 hours per week, even when you
work at home.  Now hopefully, if you have an understanding manager, and
you are home a couple days of a week, but you happen to get alot accomplished
from home,then I would hope that your work would not be unrecognized
(even if it was officially 'playing' or HAcking).

Personally, I would love to be able to work at home. I live at the beach and
would love to just sit on my deck and work away from the phones, flourescent
lights, stuffy air, etc. But in my 6 years at DEC, I still spend AT LEAST
40 hours per week in the office. If anything, I hope that the noise about
Telecommuting that is happening in the news due to the home-sewers (sew-ers)
will help the telecommuting idea by bringing it out of the closet, and making
it a possible legitimate and recognized way of working within DEC.

You may not work in a job where it is possible to telecommute, but I do.
There are many people in our cost center that spend a significant amount
of time working from home.  They would spend an extroardinary amount of
time if it wasn't for the fact that:

1.  We aren't set up for electronic meetings at all, so a lot still
gets done face to face.

2.  1200 baud << 9600 baud.

The cost center even makes a distinction between work and hacking.  If
DEC had to pay for my phone calls (they don't, it is a local call to
work), they would only pay for work, not random hacking.
				/AHM

 My personal opinion is that both labor and management have a 
distorted view of workers.  Work is viewed by leaders in both these 
worlds as an evil to be endured so that other benefits (money, free 
time, etc.) can be accrued.  Crap: let both these groups go back and 
look at the late 20th-century.  We don't work in sweat shops anymore*,
and I'm sitting here at my comfortable desk at home, catching up on 
back NOTES files while waiting for a new software kit to finish 
installing.  I do NOT consider my work as a necessary evil: it's an 
integral part of my life.  I don't have to be forced to work overtime 
to finish a project, and I don't want some contract that says I have 
to shut down and go home at 5:30 every day, either.

-------
 *At least, we don't have many assembly-lines here in DEC on the East 
coast of the U.S.  If the labor unions are so bleeding-heart concerned 
about worker welfare, why aren't they doing anything about the 
appalling conditions in Taiwan and El Salvador factories, owned by 
U.S. companies?  Huh?

    See PARROT""::SYS$NOTES:TELEWORK for an ongoing discussion of teleworking
    and telecommuting.  Topics cover both general telecommuting and evolving
    attitudes towards it @DEC.