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Conference 7.286::star_trek

Title:STAR TREK
Notice:Welcome to STAR TREK! Please read Topic 1 before noting here.
Moderator:DECCXX::WIBECAN
Created:Mon Feb 10 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1104
Total number of notes:41750

1089.0. "ST:DS9 - Children of Time" by DECCXL::WIBECAN (That's the way it is, in Engineering!) Thu Feb 27 1997 20:13

This note is for discussion of the STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE episode entitled
"Children of Time."

[Season 5, episode 22]

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1089.1Dax episodeDECCXL::WIBECANThat's the way it is, in Engineering!Thu Mar 20 1997 14:300
1089.2Press info, from VidiotDECCXX::WIBECANThat's the way it is, in Engineering!Thu Apr 17 1997 19:4152
Children of Time

Episode #120

Production #520

                                 SPELLINGS
              Gaia

                                    CAST
              Captain Benjamin Sisko       Avery Brooks
              Odo                          Rene Auberjonois
              Lieutenant Commander Worf    Michael Dorn
              Lieutenant Commander Jadzia
              Dax                          Terry Farrell
              Jake Sisko                   Cirroc Lofton
              Chief Operations Officer
              Miles O'Brien                Colm Meaney
              Quark                        Armin Shimerman
              Dr. Julian Bashir            Alexander Siddig
              Major Kira Nerys             Nana Visitor

                                GUEST STARS

              Yedrin                       Gary Frank
              Miranda [O'Brien]            Jennifer S. Parsons
              Lisa                         Davida Williams
              Molly                        Doren Fein

              Teleplay by:                 Rene Echevarria

              Written by:                  Gary Holland
                                           and Ethan H. Calk

              Directed by:                 Allan Kroeker

PROGRAM HIGHLIGHTS

     STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE: "Children of Time" - Sisko and the Defiant
     crew must choose between the lives they have always known and the lives
     of their own descendants.

TV GUIDE AD

     GUARDIANS OF TIME
     They've seen their own future.
     Now, to save it ...
     One of the crew must die.

TV LOG LISTING

     Who must die to save the future?/STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE.
1089.3Thought this was a thought provoking show.BASEX::EISENBRAUNJohn EisenbraunTue May 13 1997 15:5611
    I'm surprised that no one has commented on this show yet.  I thought it
    was one of the better ones I've seen in a while.  Made me think, at
    least.
    
    Spoilers...

    I'm rather surprised at Odo's actions in modifying the auto-pilot
    program.  I know he loves Kira, but his action borders on obsession to
    me in that he would sacrifice all those lives to save Kira's.  It sure
    makes that Odo a complex character.  How will the younger Odo (and
    Kira) deal with what Odo did (and is therefore capable of doing)?
1089.4EVMS::SCHUETZVMS Clusters Memory Channel 381-6075Tue May 13 1997 17:192
    I also found it more emotionally involving, which most of these
    shows aren't.
1089.5POLAR::RICHARDSONgot any spare change?Tue May 13 1997 18:005
    But, how can they remember people that never existed?

    this is why I thought the best time travel episode was yesterday's
    enterprise. Apart for Guinan's special perception, nobody knew what
    happened.
1089.6TROOA::TEMPLETONUnhappy gardenerWed May 14 1997 12:536
    I thought the same as Glenn, they would not know because it did not
    happen, therefore they would have nothing to feel guilty about.
    
    
    
    joan
1089.7CSC32::HADDOCKPas Fini!Wed May 14 1997 14:4932
    
    I thought the show was pretty good so far, and I myself get rather
    upset at people who only complain about the nits and bad parts all the
    time but.,,,,,,{spoilers}
























    I thought the "duplication" business was the lamest one they've come
    up with so far.  I was relieved when they found out it was a hoax.

    fred();
1089.8hmmm, but you're forgetting...SMURF::PETERTrigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertaintyWed May 14 1997 15:0936
    Spoilers...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Actually the duplication scheme has some precedence.  Remember
    whats his name, Tom Riker?  Riker had been duplicated when
    he was beaming up from a planet with some sort of particle of
    the week covering the atmosphere.  And then they found him 
    about 9 years later.  Sure, you argue, but that was (one of 
    any number of overdone ) transporter problem(s).  Don't really
    think it would be that difficult for them to fudge from 
    tranporter to quantum flux barrier.  It's all just techno-babble
    for the writers.
    
    That's why the idea seemed plausible to me.
    
    PeterT
    
1089.9POLAR::RICHARDSONgot any spare change?Wed May 14 1997 15:181
    well, I liked the show, I watched it twice.
1089.10didn't feel this one was tightly written...APLVEW::DEBRIAElanguage by declarationWed May 14 1997 16:1245
        
    This was just an OK episode for me. It was more emotionally involving
    than usual, Cisko was in the background, and I really liked the older
    Odo's new personality and more natural, matured new look. However
    things that bothered me were...

>    I thought the same as Glenn, they would not know because it did not
>    happen, therefore they would have nothing to feel guilty about.

    I felt the same during the show. I was with O'Brien. Life should be
    lived for the here and now. I'd try to get back to my current wife and
    my current family in his shoes as well. The alternate timeline was just
    that, if it never happened, no one would know and no one would be hurt.
    Now if that colony had made some incredible discoveries or impact on
    Federation-kind, then perhaps I could see the desire to sacrifice one's
    current life in favour of some alternate one. But as it was, I couldn't
    see the desire here. What about all of their grandchildren now that
    would never happen in the DS9 timeline? No tears for them? I felt it
    was shabby that those considerations were never brought up. Who says
    the proper timeline shouldn't be that this loop should only occur once,
    the Defiant crew avoid their first mistake and continue on with their
    present life. I also don't think Miles would have allowed himself to
    fall for the "get involved with them" 'trick'.

    It also bothered me that Kira basically got to decide for the other 55
    crew members. Kira wants to die, fine, that's her vote, but what if the
    other 50+ members we never saw all wanted to return to their present
    day lives, jobs, and timeline? The finality of it all being "Kira's
    decision" seemed ridiculous to me. (Midshipman Frank wants to maroon
    this aircraft carrier on this island, let's all 500 of us do it).

    The other bothersome part was the whole Odo storyline. Both the old and
    current Odo seemed very much, shockingly much, out of character to me.
    I can't see Odo sabotaging the Defiant just for Kira, ever. Despite
    even that, given 200 years to mull over Kira and do that absurdly
    selfish feat, the current Odo would never freely offer that fact to
    Kira. He knew her knowing this fact would kill her. There was no reason
    for him to do this to her, there was no need to know. The old Odo
    never existed, why cause that much present day grief for no one but
    Kira. Odo would be more aware of and sensitive to Kira's reaction to
    this unasked-for news. Both acts just didn't sit well with me. Gul
    Dukat would tell Kira this stomach-curdling news to watch her writhe in
    pain, Odo would not.


1089.11happy=bad MAIL2::LOCOVAREResistance is FutileThu May 15 1997 13:5610
    
    I was a very good episode..glad they didn't come up with the best
    of both situation..this is more realistic.
    
    I think this will put a damper on Odo and Kira's relationship
    and it will not be explored for now..if Odo hadn't told her
    she might have pursued it but now she will back off and as
    we know on most shows happy relationships bring bad ratings! :)
    
    
1089.12liked itUFP::BOBBJanet Bobb dtn:339-5755Mon May 19 1997 17:2646
    I liked this episode. It will provide lots of fodder for possible plots
    in the future. Like the Doctor pursuing a relationship with the woman
    he ended up with on the planet.
    
    
    I have to disagree with .10 on several points.
    
    > What about all of their grandchildren now that
    > would never happen in the DS9 timeline? No tears for them? I felt it
    > was shabby that those considerations were never brought up.
    
    This was brought up during one of the discussions. Basically Dax (I
    think it was her) said something about we don't know about the future,
    but if we don't stay, we know these people will cease to exist.
    
    > It also bothered me that Kira basically got to decide for the 
    > other 55 crew members. Kira wants to die, fine....
    
    I didn't see this happening at all. It seemed like even though she was
    for going back, it didn't matter at first. Miles' objection seemed to
    have more weight. In fact, it seemed to me as long as there was one
    person on the crew who didn't want to stay, Sisko let that be the
    deciding vote.
    
    And it didn't suprize me that Miles changed his mind. He worked all day
    in the fields with these people (not to mention the previous day(s)).
    he's a sucker for little kids and that cute girl working with him would
    have been hard to deny. I think it would be impossible to say, unless
    in the same situation, if I'd be willing to let 8000 cease to exist,
    just so I can get back to my life. I think most people might decide as
    the crew did.  The need of the many outweigh the need of the few.....

    I do agree Kira and Odo may have a hard time of it. This season has
    been tough for them already. There was the episode where Odo admits 3
    innocent Bajorans died under his security watch, because of his error
    and Kira flipped out. And then Kira and the Cardassian "father" - she's
    got to be on raw nerves.
    
    I wonder if they could have taken the defiant back into the atmosphere
    and run through the anomly a second time, if they were that determined
    to save these people. 'Course, it wouldn't be quite the same ,so the
    timeline would end up different.
    
    overall -liked this one.
    
    janetb.
1089.13if liked these grandkids so much, what about the lost DS9 ones?"APLVEW::DEBRIAElanguage by declarationMon May 19 1997 21:0120
    > I think it would be impossible to say, unless
>    in the same situation, if I'd be willing to let 8000 cease to exist,
>    just so I can get back to my life. I think most people might decide as
>    the crew did.  The need of the many outweigh the need of the few.....
 
    Who's to say 10,000 didn't then cease to exist in the easier
    'non-stranded' life back on DS9 when they decided to stay and rough it?
    Who's to say Miles' next child with his wife didn't procreate like mad or
    make some astounding discovery that would forever change the other
    timeline (etc) that now would never happen by their staying.

    That's the point I was trying to make, that the "needs of the many"
    might have NOT been served by their staying. They had no way of
    knowing. So I felt the compelling reason to stay just wasn't there, at
    least for me while I watched it.
    
    Perhaps it's only a nit but it felt like a fatal flaw in that story to
    me...

                              
1089.14Wow!skylab.zko.dec.com::FISHERGravity: Not just a good idea. It's the law!Tue May 20 1997 16:4215
Well, I thought this was a fabulous and involving story.  Not that I had no
nits, and not that I did not guess that they would not go back in time after
all, but it was all very emotional.  It made me feel a lot like the "Picard
lives another live in 30 minutes" TNG story, which is one of my favorites even
if I can't remember the name.

I liked how each person in the crew (that we saw) got attached to the colony
in his or her own way.  I especially liked the pseudo-Klingons.

Interesting that while they mentioned that Jadzia had married Worf in the
past, there decendents of Trills who did not appear to be even partially
Klingon, and there was a Klingon who did not appear to be partially Trill
(though I suppose the spots might not show with dark skin).

Burns