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Conference noted::equitation

Title:Equine Notes Conference
Notice:Topics List=4, Horses 4Sale/Wanted=150, Equip 4Sale/Wanted=151
Moderator:MTADMS::COBURNIO
Created:Tue Feb 11 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2080
Total number of notes:22383

1919.0. "Lease vs Purchase/Sale" by BOUVS::OAKEY (worth every penny...) Wed Aug 10 1994 13:15

I checked and didn't really see any other notes that talked about this.

What's the difference (and advantages/disadvantages) between a lease and a
purchase? 

With a lease does the owner typically get $$$ as well or does the leasee
just pick up all costs and expenses?

Do leases generally include a purchase option?

If you put training on a leased horse, do you figure that's an 
out-of-pocket expense if the lease is terminated and the horse returned to 
the owner?

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1919.1a few thoughts come to mindQE010::ROMBERGI feel a vacation coming on...Wed Aug 10 1994 16:2885
>With a lease does the owner typically get $$$ as well or does the leasee
>just pick up all costs and expenses?

	Depends on the terms of the lease.  READ YOUR LEASE CAREFULLY.

>Do leases generally include a purchase option?

	Not all leased horses are for sale.  Many are leased simply
	because the owner does not have the time to devote to the horse,
	although there may be a clause (again, each lease is different)
	that specifies that if the horse becomes unusable due to the 
	negligence of the lessor, that some remuneration may be required.

>If you put training on a leased horse, do you figure that's an 
>out-of-pocket expense if the lease is terminated and the horse returned to 
>the owner?

	Any time you get on a horse, you are training it.  If you, for example,
	pay for lessons, that as a result add to the leased horse knowledge
	base, then, in my opinion, those are out of pocket (since you, the
	lessor, probably also benefitted).  Again, your lease *may* have
	a clause in it regarding this, if it is pre-agreed.  If you (the 
	lessor) are intending to send the horse out for training, that should
	be negotiated, since the owner may want some say in the matter, 
	especially if someone else will be riding the horse (for insurance
	reasons, I would not want anyone other than designated individuals
	to ride any horse that I leased to someone.)


What's the difference (and advantages/disadvantages) between a lease and a
purchase? 

	There are pros and cons to each.  A lot depends on your personal
	situation.  

Purchase
	1) You own the horse and are solely responsible for it's maintenance.
	2) You have 'first dibs' on the horse, i.e. you are the person 
 	  responsible for it's exercise.  You can probably ride whenever 
	  your schedule allows.
	3) If you relocate to a 'distant' location, you need to decide what
	  to do with the horse.  Do you sell it? Do you move it with you?
	4) If your horse becomes unusable, you are still responsible for it.
	5) If you don't like where you keep the horse, you can move it.

Lease
	0) READ THE LEASE CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE IMPLICATIONS THEREIN.
	   There is no standard lease agreement.  You need to know what happens
	   if the horse becomes unusable and what exactly you will be
	   responsible for financially.
	1) Even if you are the resopnsible for all the horse's expenses, you
	   are not the *only* one responsible for it's care (my opinion, but
	   read your lease)
	2) Who can ride the horse, and when (read your lease).  If it's a
	   partial lease, do you need to schedule your riding time?  What if
	   your schedule changes and you can't ride on 'your days' for a week
	   or two, or more.  You're still responsible for your lease.
	3) If you relocate to a 'distant' location, you don't have a large
	   animal to do something with.
	4) You can end the lease and no longer be responsible for the horse.
	   (read your lease for 'early' termination terms.	
	5) If the owner wants the horse back (or moves and takes the horse with
	   them), you have to look for anither situation.
	6) If you don't like the way the horse is kept, you may or may not have
	   a say in changing the situation.
	7) READ THE LEASE CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE IMPLICATIONS THEREIN.


You don't mention whether this is a full lease or a partial lease, pre-purchase
lease or what.  There are other notes in this conference discussing leasing. 
Read them.  They will give you insights into the common concerns.  

A big question to ask yourself is 'How much am I willing to invest in a horse'. 
Leasing can drain or draw to a halt any saving you may be doing towards a
purchase.  Are you willing to do that?  The most expensive part of horses is
maintenance.  Are you into maintaining someone elses horse for them? How much
time do you have to devote to this creature?  How much emotion will you invest
in this creature - is it emotionally worth knowing that you own it?


These are just some thoughts off the top of my head.  I'm sure there are others
who can add...


kathy
1919.2lots of optionsNAC::A_OBRIENWed Aug 10 1994 16:3528
    There many different kinds of lease arrangements but generally:
    
    	the owner does not get any money up front i.e. as if you were
    	buying a horse
    
    	the leasee pays all or some portion of the horses upkeep: 
    		I used to own my horse with someone else (who did not
    		ride him much) and we third leased him to another person
    		who then covered 1/3 of all upkeep costs
    
    	
    You can lease a horse on-site i.e. the horse lives with the owner and
     you have riding priviliges and cover some of the costs.
    
    Or, you can actually take the horse from the owner and board him
    yourself.
    
    Sometimes there is a leasing fee involved.
    
    Sometimes the owner is looking for someone to exercise a horse and
    will not require any cost sharing.
    
    I am sure that there are leases with an option to buy.
    
    So as you see the options are endless.
    
    Good luck, Ania
    
1919.3CSLALL::LCOBURNPlan B FarmWed Aug 10 1994 17:1316
    For a first-timer, leasing can be an excellent option (assuming the
    lease terms are clear and acceptable to both parties).  It allows
    you to decided if ownership is a step you want to take. IMO, ownership
    involves a good deal more responsiblity, and permanent commitment. A
    horse is not a car, a toy, or a showpiece, but a living animal with
    a lot of needs.  If you are unsure whether or not you are willing/able
    to fill each and every one of those needs, consider leasing prior to
    actually purchasing. It's also a good way to determine it a particular
    horse is suitable for you and your planned activities prior to making
    a purchase committment (in a lease-w/buy-option situation). It is  much 
    easier to return a horse to it's owner than to have to spend time and 
    effort selling a horse you bought and later decided was unsuitable or
    more work/responsibility than you were prepared for.
    
    Good luck whatever you decide to do!
      
1919.4LEASES ARE WHAT YOU MAKE THEMPONDB::NICKERSONKATHIE NICKERSON 223-2025Wed Aug 10 1994 19:2115
    My husband and I have leased a number of horses.  Each lease was
    different.  They range from no cost lease...you maintain the animal and
    all of its expenses to a cash lease with an option to buy with the
    leasing $'s going towards the purchase of the horse.
    
    I do keep in close touch with the horses that I have leased and that
    are not on my property.  But "knock on wood" I have only had one
    problem in the last 20 years of doing this.
    
    Basically you and the party leasing the animal need to agree on what
    the two of you want; write it down so that there is no
    misunderstanding; and enjoy your horse.
    
    Kathie
    
1919.5Go for It.MASALA::SMCRITCHIEThu Aug 11 1994 13:2544
    
    Hello, 
    
    I agree with Kathie.  Go ahead and have fun.
    
    We had a pony on Loan for 8 months with a view to buying.  We took on
    the responsibility for all his expenses, innoculations, shoeing, feed
    etc,.  We took him in the November and agreed to give the owner an
    answer about buying him in the Spring (as first time owners we wanted
    to know if we could cope a winter).  We called the owner in the
    February and told her we wanted to buy him.  She was in no hurry to be
    paid and agreed the load could continue until the summer, then we paid
    for him + tack.
    
    She visited us regulary to check on his condition and how he was
    progressing.
    
    I thought this was an unusual arrangement and that we were lucky to have
    met someone willing to do it, but, on talking to other horse/pony
    owners/loaners this is not so unusual in my area.
    
    Most of the folks who do it are those who are short of grazing in
    winter and know that they are waiting to sell in the Spring....If they
    can loan out the pony and guarantee it's good condition throughout the
    winter then the pony should be looking good for the Spring Sales and
    most times the loaners have got to know the pony (if it has faults
    etc,) whether it is a good buy or not and nine times out of ten the
    loaners purchase the pony/horse.
    
    
    As Kathie says each arrangement is different, but for me I think the
    owners are more concerned that their beast has a good home and not
    looking for money, afterall it is saving the owner money while the
    animal is out on loan.  A friend of mine has 4 ponies out on loan and
    she has two on loan from another person.  She does it because she can't
    bear to part with them and at least if something goes wrong she can
    bring the animal back ro keep track of it.
    
    God for it
    
    Sandra