Conference noted::equitation

    Nope, I can't top that, but I thought I had seen everything when:
    
    My 14 year old neighbor cooled off her horse after riding by leading
    the horse while riding her bicycle up and down the driveway.  I
    considered it a tribute to the nature of the horse, but proof of how
    foolish some people can be around horses.
    

    
    	What does age have to do with the possibility of mental
    	illness or alcoholism?  

    
    
    	No he really believes the horses are causing the mosquitos

    Send the fool a photocopy of the life and stages of the mosquito....
    
    Also include the chemical definition of W-A-T-E-R! (-;
    
    L-

    Despite the nominal literacy rate in these United States there are a
    surprising number of urban folk who haven't a clue what goes on in the
    "countryside". When these folk move out of the city in to what they
    imagine is an idyllic Disney-managed bucolic paradise they cause
    some trouble and a lot of amusement for those of us who appreciate a
    more rural existence for what it really is.
    
    One option is to fight lunacy with lunacy. Tell your new neighbour to
    come and remove the poison ivy he obviously brought with when he moved
    in :-) !

    re .5
    
    Yeah!  I *like* it!!  And tell him that he also brought poison ivy to
    *my* yard, and he just better get right over here and take care of it!
    
    But I want to know, too, why the fact that this guy is only 30 made you
    rule out insanity and alcoholism.  Did you mean to say something else
    and just typed the wrong phrase or something?  This doesn't make
    sense...
    
    -ellie

    
    
    	No..  
    
    	Genneral he is pretty nice guy.. doesn't talk much.. keeps
    	to him self.. 
    
    	Last year he came over (when he just moved in).. and asked
    	if we would mind cutting the the pine trees down in the
    	our back yard so he could get a better view of the pond.. 
    
    	(there is over a 60 pine tree about 100 years old or more)
    	We told him that we had no intention of cutting down any trees..
    
    	Not a happy camper.. 
    
    	I get along great with his wife.. She wasn't home last night
    	or I know I wouldn't have gotten the call.
    
	These things just get to me.. I like to keep the horses
    	as inconspicous as possible and yet people still complain..

    
    I feel very bad for you.  Good luck w/  your neighbor.  Did he call the
    police by chance?  I'd send him a book on mosquitos to..just to give
    alittle dig..
    
    Lou

    "He is from California...need I say more?"  GOD, Ed, as a conf.
    moderator you oughta know better than to print THAT comment! :-)
    Good thing this isn't Soapbox! :-)
    
    At any rate, if the guy is truly just ignorant, by all means send him
    some literature on misquitos. Hard to believe anyone 30 yrs old wouldnt
    know about misquitos/water, but anything is possible. If he's just
    being obnoxious, Id ignore him. Imagine the response he'd get if he
    really DID call the police?? I'd love to hear their reply! :-)
    
    Good luck!
    

    Really sorry to hear about your neighbor -- sound like you're in for
    some interesting times!
    
    Mary

    
    
    
    	This is note is not from Ed.. (boy it gets me really mad 
    	when people think there is only one fultz in this conference) 
    
    	Ed wanted to tell him were to go.. but, we still have to live
    	next to this guy.. 
    
    	Were going to moving in a couple of years.. 
    
    	With more land.. and people who love horses as much I do.. 
    
    	My mother says you run into them no matter were you live.. 
    
    	She's probably right.. 
    
    	

    re .7
    
    Donna, 
    
    You still haven't answered my question, or the one in .2.....  What has
    this guy's age got to do with anything?
    
    -ellie

    Obviously, mosquito bites cause alcoholism and insanity, but only if
    you're over thirty... (;})

    re .13
    
    Uh-oh!!  I'm in *REAL* trouble.

    What a crackerjack!  Tell him your horse only has horseflies not
    skeeters!
    
    I have super awesome neighbors too on both sides of me and EVERYONE
    always asks me why I don't bring my horse home.  No thanks, the
    neighbors on one side live in an underground house and I can't tell you
    what the vampires in the house on the other side look like because they
    only come out at night to swim in their pool after I put my kids to
    bed.  (And play Marco Polo for hours...)
    
    The people in the underground house had 8 pigs who got loose and ran
    across the roof and luckily only broke the skylight (didn't crash
    through it onto the couch!)
    
    Karen
    

    I would have been on the floor laughing my *ss off if I had received a
    call like that!  Thinking it was a joke, of course...I am sitting here in 
    hysterics because it's the most ridculous thing I've ever heard!
    
    I guess one just shouldn't take for granted that everyone is an expert
    about "rare" insects like mosquitos! ha!  I mean, not that I'm an
    expert, but please!
    
    Oh well...good luck with the loon next door!  
    
    I cannot even believe you wouldn't cut down your 100 yr. old tree for
    him!  What kind of a neightbor ARE you anyway??!!   ;) 
    
    

    I keep repeating to myself..
    
    Thank goodness for good neighbors, TGFGN, TGFGN, ........
    
    Not all of them were happy about my horses, but no one complains...
    
    L-

Donna checked with the building inspector to see what our rights were.
The guy first had to stop laughing.  Then he said that with 2.5 acres,
we could have 5 or 6 horses if we wanted.  We only have 3.

He said the only limitation is that the manure pile cannot be within 50
feet of the property line.  Also if we were to build a barn it would have to
be 50 feet off the line.  If we built a lean-to, with only 3 sides, there
are no restrictions.   I wonder how our neighbor will feel when we put
up the lean-to that we have been planning?  It will be put up in the next
month or so, and not because of him.  We have been planning this for some
time.

Some people are so amazing.

Ed..

                     <<< Note 1640.19 by XLIB::PAANANEN >>>

               <<< Note 1640.11 by ABACUS::FULTZ "DONNA FULTZ" >>>
                         -< Mothers are always right >-

    
    
    
>    	This is note is not from Ed.. (boy it gets me really mad 
>    	when people think there is only one fultz in this conference) 
    
       Well Donna, I know how you feel! Your husband keeps addressing
       me by my husbands name! Everytime he deletes my notes, he sends me 
       mail and calls me Ed!  There are two of us PAANANENs. 
    

    how do you play Marco Polo?
    

    
    	Marco polo - one person with their eyes closed yells MARCO
    	and everyone else has to yell back POLO - the object is for
    	the `blind' person to find the others by the sounds of their
    	voices. They can move whenever they want and the game can go
    	on forever...
    
    	Perhaps this neighbor has heard something about encephalitis,
    	mosquitoes, and horses and assumes that he is going to be 
    	infected after being bit by one of `your' bugs. Maybe a little
    	calm discussion could solve all of your problems.
    

    Well ladies perhaps if you signed you notes we wouldn't get mixed up!
    There are also two people named D'Addamio in this conference...We even
    have the same initial! Therefore, we sign our notes(well, most of the
    time) so as not to confuse the rest of the world!

You know what makes this lunacy most frustrating?  The fact that we are
immediately put on the defensive.  We have to defend our horses (they
didn't cause the mosquitos).  We have to defend ourselves (it would be a
shame if you couldn't keep your horses here any more).  We have to defend
our lifestyle (why don't you keep your mosquitos out of my yard.  I got
bit while taking my son to pick berries).

Why can't people just leave us alone?  We don't bother anyone.  We don't
even hassle anyone if they do something we don't like.  All we ask is
the same in return.  Is that too much to ask?

Ed..

    No, Ed...it's not too much to ask...I think that's what being a good
    neighbor is all about.  No one is ever going to like everything that
    everyone else does.  But with a little tolerance and consideration for
    other people, then things usually work out fine.  
    
    Actually, now that I think of it, when I was out in my back yard last
    week, I noticed a flea on my arm...and I KNOW it came from Snowball,
    the Samoyed next door!!  I'm going to give those d*mn neighbors a call
    and let them know how p*ssed I am!!  ;)  Because MY dogs would NEVER
    have fleas!!  ya, right!
    
    Good luck!!
    
    Gen 
                            

    I feel for both of you, Ed....My friends have "jackass's"
    for neighbors because they have horses.  They complain
    about the horses constantly...even threaten to let them out
    when they are not home...
    
    L-

    
    
    	He wouldn't do that because they love his lawn - the last time
    	max got out (the only time) she liked his lawn so much they
    	couldn't put her back in the pasture.. 
    
    	and now that he has gotten rid of all his weeds..  MMM smells 
    	good. 

    
    	HOWDY,
    
    		I HAVE A GOOD ONE FOR ALL OF YOU PEOPLE WHO HAVE GRASS(THAT
    IS THE GREEN STUFF, RIGHT??)
    		I HAVE MY HORSES IN 29 PALMS.  YES, THAT IS WHERE ALL THE
    EARTHQUAKES ARE SHAKING IN CALIFORNIA.  ANYHOO,  MY NEIGHBOORS COMPLAIN
    ABOUT ALL THE DUST AND SAND MY KIDS KICK UP.  I, OF COURSE HAVEN'T SAID
    A WORD ABOUT THE DUST STORMS HIS KIDS KICKED UP THE LAST TIME I HAD THE
    CLEAN CLOTHES ON THE LINE.  TO THINK,  THEY WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO
    MAKE US MOVE OUR HORSES OUT OF THE CITY LIMITS BECAUSE THEY ARE BAD FOR
    THE ECO-SYSTEM OF THE DESERT!!!  SO WHAT GOOD ARE DIRTBIKES AND
    4-WHEELERS???
    	DON'T GET ME WRONG, I  GO OFF-ROADING JUST AS MUCH AS THE NEXT GUY,
    BUT HORSES BAD FOR THE ENVIROMENT,  GIVE ME A BREAK.  WHO DO YOU THINK
    WAS LIVING IN THE GREAT SAND PITS BEFORE PEOPLE DECIDED IT WAS A "COOL"
    PLACE TO LIVE. 
    
    		SORRY TO BE !@##$$##@#!@ BUT SOMETIMES NEIGHBORS CAN BE A
    PAIN.  JUST ANOTHER FACT TO MAKE  THIS WHOLE THING TOTALY INATE. 
    THESE NEIGHBORS ARE AT LEAT A 1/4 MILE FROM US!!!!!  NEXT THEY WILL SAY
    WE CAUSED CRAB GRASS OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
    
    			YOU ALL ENJOY YOUR STABLE FOOTING.
    
    			VLM   CWO
    

Well I knew there were 2 Fultz's but the pairs of
Paannanen's and Daddamino's are a suprise, and Iv'e been
reading this note file for over 2 years.

How about all the couples use an appropriate SET PROFILE/PERSONAL_NAME.
We can even start a new note with suggestions.

All the ones I can think of so far, I can't put into the file, but I'm
sure we can all develop a great list of suggestions.

RE:<<< Note 1640.29 by KAHALA::HOLMES >>>

>How about all the couples use an appropriate SET PROFILE/PERSONAL_NAME.
>We can even start a new note with suggestions.

  Doesn't help. I had one set for quite a while. Most people ignored it.

    
    
    	Me too.. doesn't help..
    

    Let me tell you about my neighbor!!!!  Last summer I got a visit from
    the board of health (I was at work).  It seems my neighbor called and
    told the board of health that my horses were generating deer flies!!!!
    and mosquito's!!!!!   Now I live in an area where there is a pond in
    front, woods to the right and swamp in back and to the left.  I very
    nicely explained to the B of H that I have had horses for 8 years here
    and no way in HELL was I going to get rid of one of them!!!!  He then
    gave me the rules...no manure pile 50 feet from the property line etc.
    I let him know that the property line was 65 ft from the manure pile,
    which we have removed twice a year!!!  
    
    Questions of the Day..... If you don't like bugs, why live in an area
    where bugs are the heaviest?  
    
    Maybe you should call the cops and tell them this guy is harassing
    you!!!
    
    Good luck,
    
    Caryl

    Oh, I forgot to add that my neighbor the year before approached me and
    stated she thought that my horses (i have 2) urine was going to
    contaminate our wells.  Of course, our wells are over 100 feet
    deep..
    
    You can only shake your head and laugh it off!!!!
    
    Caryl

    RE: Names,

    A more expensive solution might be to change usernames.
    Noone should confuse FULTZ_D with FULTZ_E or PAANANEN_X
    with PAANANEN_Y.  (I couldn't help that !)

    RE:  Manure,

    There have been problems when large comercial farms are developed
    (my baby sister is a civil eng.) but I think I read in the Pedlar
    that 1 years manure from 1 horse contains the same chemical content
    as a single 100 lb bag of lawn fertilizer.  In addition as it is
    somewhat chemically bound with the other organic matter is released
    much more slowly.  I think also that the less stable elements
    evaporate quite fast.

    (one of two Bill H's in DEC.  I did get the other guys paycheck once
     but have not bumped into him in a notes file.)

    I JUST HVE TO VENT!!!
    Seems my neighbors on either side of me (nobody in the back 30 acres)
    don't like us or our horses.  Typical yuppies, lets move to a neighbor 
    hood that's down a dirt right of way through acres conservation land
    and put in a paved road and get rid of the horse people!!!  DAMN IT,
    I'm not going!!!
    
    Anyway, I've had two horse for 8 years on one acre, zoning says only
    one horse, but we got approval to use someones land and the approval of
    the board of health.  But because one of our neighbors is raising a
    ruckus about smell and flies (Board of Health and Building inspector
    have been out and found nothing wrong)..we have to go before the board
    of appeals.  If they say "no" we will have to go to plan B..which is
    even more costly than hiring a lawyer to go before the board of
    appeals.  I know we don't need a lawyer, but we do need the upper hand.
    Hopefully, the Board of Appeals will realize that it's not the horses
    but a neighborhood problem.  
    
    Anyway, I'm on pins and needles til next week when we go before the
    BOA, if they say no we are going to try to buy an acre of land behind
    us.  Which of course, we can't afford, but I WILL NOT GIVE UP WITH OUT
    A FIGHT!!!!
    
    This all started because my husband and I were the only two people in
    the neighborhood with the guts to oppose a paved road...amazing how
    many people came up to us after the Conservation meeting and said they
    felt the same way!!!  They just didn't have the nerve to go against the
    neighborhood.
    
    I'm probably rambling, but i just needed to vent!!!!
    
    AND when the day comes to sell my house, I want to make sure it goes to
    horse owners!!!!!  As a matter of fact, I may even buy an acre in back
    (if they'll sell) and board a couple of horses, now that would really
    tick of the neighbors!!!
    
    Caryl

	I'm in the process of building a small 2 horse barn that's 6' from the
property line of my neighbor. He is a yupie doctor who has something to say 
about everything. When they moved in it was like, ok, were here, nothing else
goes up on our street ! Our houses cost a FEW bucks and when they started to 
put one of those ready made houses in down the street my neighbor tried to get
them to stop. They have also mentioned to me something like, "can you believe 
those people across the street, they drink beer on there porch !". Haven't 
they ever looked over at me !!!!!

	They don't know that I'm putting up the barn yet but I'm sure there 
not going to like it. I talked to the building inspector and told him and he
said there is nothing they can do and I could also raise pigs or whatever next
to his property line !

	If people are so concerned about what is around them, why don't they 
buy a piece of wooded land and bury the house in the middle ! 

	Will let you know what happens when I start this week.

	-Steve-

This is typical of nosey neighbors.  They think that just because they bought
as house in your neighborhood they can dictate what everyone else does.

As long as you are not bothering anyone it should not matter.  We had a 
problem exactly like you had.  the neighbor (a native Californian) said
the mosquito that bit him was because of our horses.  This despite the fact
that there is a pond and a swampy area just a few hundred feet away.

Fortunately for us the health inspector was on our side.  By the way, he
said that horse manure is not hazardous waste, so you can just dig a hole
and bury it.

Also fortunately for us we own enough land that we met the restrictions.
Good luck with your appeal.  Can you lease the land in back (if you can't
afford to buy it)?  Maybe the owner would be willing as long as they 
understood that you were not going to build or anything (just fencing for
the horses).

Ed..

    
    
    	Ed, didn't mention it but, Horse manure has to be fifty feet
    from the poperty line.. (which our's is right to the foot)..
    
    	If we stay were we are I would like to build a barn but, 
    I know that he will be on my case the first time we bring 
    a back hoe in..  
    
    I really feel for you.. - It's awful when you think you can't do 
    what you want on your own property.. 
    
    	I want to live on about 20 achers .. about 400 ft from the road.. 
    
    But, what I really want is for my neighbors to mind there own
    business.. (the horses where there when they moved in).
    
    Donna

    Yeah, we went through the manure mound smelling and it was 65 feet from
    the property line....and it was only shavings no manure involved!!!  I
    am hoping that if the people don't want to sell that they will lease.
    
    I was actually thinking of bartering....I have a 68 Buick Skylark
    Convertible that i would considering trading for an acre.  although I
    want an acre...it only has 15K to 20K usable property the rest is
    swamp.  Which of course, no manure within 50 feet of wetlands.  I'll
    keep you posted on the appeal.
    
    As far as building the 2 hourse stall barn...we got the permit from the
    building inspector because we were allowed to use someone elses
    property unfortunately this doesn't hold per zoning law.  Needless to
    say we've gotten mixed messges!!!
    
    Good luck with your Doctor and putting up your barn, just make sure you
    know all the rules before you start and you won't have a
    problem..Although there will be one less person in the neighbor hood
    who will wave to you!!
    
    I also, would like 20 acres and no neighbors!!!
    
    Caryl

    Go for it, Caryl. Give 'em ....one of those 4 letter words we aren't
    supposed to use in notes ;-)
    

    
    
    	Caryl,
    
    	Remember you still have to live next door to these people
    	and sometimes it can be very easy to piss them off, but
    	I was glad last year when they called me at work to tell
    	me my horses were out.. 
    
    	Of course they didn't call me until the cops had run the
    	horses all over there lawn.. :(
    
    

    Geez, all these horror stories make me appreciate my neighbors....
    it's a remote area and the nearest neighbors, whose house is not even
    visible, have horses as well. Several times in fact, we have exchanged
    "Hi, your horse was loose today, I caught him/her and fixed the fence
    temporarily for you..."...( I have a fence hopper and so do they)...
    Thank GOd for NICE neighbors! :-)
    

    Hi,
    
    I had my horses in the desert and our neighbors were a little ways from
    us but still complained about everything.  Well, we finally moved the
    horses to another place (The zoning changed).  I saw our old neighbor a
    few weekends ago and she was so pleasent and asked where the horses
    were like she realy missed them.
    
    Virginia

    You should have seen my neighbor's face when my QH got loose
    a few years ago and galloped across her front lawn!
    
    Her husband is a cool guy, tho'.  So are the rest of the
    neighbors.
    

    My horses have only been loose twice, and both time they went to
    the neighbors across the 18 acres, who has horse...she put them in her
    corral and called us.  
    
    I really don't care if my neighbors like me...I have friends who do,
    both riding and non-riding friends!!!  
    
    Although, our houses are relatively close to our abutting neighbors
    we have taken great care over the years to camoflage our horses and barn,
    they are out behind trees.  As a matter of fact, two of our neighbors 
    didn't know we even had horse!!!
    
    It's just one of those things...if you don't agree with them then
    you're not int he cliche...and personally I have never liked cliche's.
    
    It is sad though, when the little girl of the house next door comes over 
    to see, pat, feed the horses and wants a ride and her mom yells at her 
    to come home.  The little girls asked me one day if she got a pony could 
    she keep it at my barn, so her parents wouldn't have to build one.
    
    I'm impatiently waiting for the Board of Appeals meeting...
    
    Caryl  
     
    
    

    FYI, we bombed at the Board of Appeals meeting.  They obviously didn't
    care for horses either!!
    
    By the time our neighbors got through talking about their fear of
    contracting encephalitis from the horse...and their urine polluting the
    ground water!!!  I personally think we lost (as our lawyer did a great
    job) because this was the first case of horse before the BOA ever and
    they wanted to make a statement...no more than 1 horse per acre.  If
    they let us, they have to let a lot of people!!
    
    Anyway, on to plan B...No plan B is not causing bodily harm to
    neighbors : ).  WE're going to acquire more land behind us.....
    
    Caryl

I hope you are able to buy enough land so that you can let the horses be
a constant reminder to the neighbor to mind their own business.

If only people would learn more before they panick.

Ed..

    Ed, thanks for the encouragement.  We're hoping to buy an acre and then
    I could see another horse moving in and the town couldnt' do anything
    about it.  
    
    as far as learn more before they panic....everything they said was an
    exaggeration of the truth or a downright lie.  It's not the horses that
    they hve a problem with it's us.  WE do not conform to the mold of
    certain people in the neighborhood.  The horses are only a way of
    hurting us.  
    
    So now I'm sitting here thinking if Plan B fails (more land), then
    what??  Boarding for one, but my other one will be lonely, they've
    never been alone not to mention the financial burden!!!  Or do we give
    in and move.  We love where we live, ona pond, in conservation land,
    loads of trails!!!!  
    
    Needless to say, both my husband and I are extrememly, dissappointed,
    disgusted and much more.  And very tired cause neither one of us slept
    last night!!
    
    Caryl
    

I don't understand why leasing an acre would not be sufficient.  It is no
different than the person you are leasing the acre from being the owner
of the horse (or boarding the horse for you).

If the person won't sell the land (or you can't afford it), try to get
them to let you board your horse on their acre for a nominal fee.  I
would think this would be sufficient.

Good luck,

Ed..

    Just a thought.
    
    Keep an eye on you neighbors when they change their car's oil or
    radiator fluid.  And they are worried about urine contaminating the
    ground water.
    
    

    And get it on film if you can. 

    Oh yes, definitly on film.  I wouldn't doubt that they have kept record
    of how often you horses urinate.
    
    

    Our lawyer is contacting the owners this week. You are right, it
    doesn't matter whether we own or lease or rent....as long as the
    property is continguous to ours!!
    
    I was thinking about having a small trail ride starting from my house,
    maybe I could get 20 or 30 horses to come over ...that would certainly
    agrevate the neighbors..I don't think the town has an ordinance for
    daily visitors!!!!  
    
    The problem with all our neighbor is they don't have any hobbies...they
    have no stuff!!!!  very boring people!!!!
    
    I'm feeling better about the situation, a friend of mine has offered one
    of her pastures for the spring, summer and fall, if we can hold off
    getting rid of a horse til spring (that's if plan B doesn't work) and
    then I would only have to board her through the winter. 
    
    AND, when I start to get down, I just think....of what I have and how I
    could be married to one of those A*******.  
    
    Thanks guys for all the words of encouragement!!  I'll let you know how
    things go.
    
    Caryl

    
    Well the saga continues..  My next door nieghbor came over last night
    and said he had gotten a letter in the mail marked personal. (this guy
    use to own cows.. He's really nice).  In the letter was the ruleing
    about that horse waste has to be fifty feet from the property line.
    It wasn't signed.  He also told us that he got a call about a week
    ago from a women saying that she wanted to talk about the horses.
    He said he didn't own any and he hung up on her.  
    
    Then I found out that the people that lived next door lost there job
    (the same people that complained in the first place) and moved out
    west - they sold the house to a fireman and his wife - they obvously
    don't know who own the horses.  I thought my worries were over - but
    I guess not.. I called the Health inspector saying that my neightbor
    was probably going to call him.. and for him to come ouit and make
    sure everything was okay.  He is coming today.. 
    
    Iam really worryed.. Since this guy works for the town Iam sure he
    knows alot of people.  
    
    I told ED I want to put a 10 foot fence do the 300 ft line - he say he
    doesn't want to feel like he is jail. 
    
    I keep the horses in at night so that there is that much less waste in
    the pasture, I have manure pile over 165 ft away from this idiot.
    
    I want to go over and talk with these people but, don't want to start
    anything.. I am going to wait for the health inspector and see what 
    he has to say.. 
    
    I love were we live but, I want to beable to enjoy the horeses without
    feeling like everyone is giving us a hard time.. 
    
    Donna

    
    
    I need advise.. 
    
    	We recently had the health inspector over and he gave the
    okay for the horses.. 
    
    	So he told the people who complained.. (the next door nieghbor)
    and they said they were going to report me to the building inspector
    - He is on vacation until monday - So I called the health inspector
    and he said he couldn't give me a licence until the building
    inspector came out.. 
    
    	When is this considered harassment...?  This nieghbor just moved
    in... about two month ago.. (the horses where already there).. 
    
    	We own 3 achers in chelmsford MA..  - I am trying to find out
    if there is any zoning problems - when I called the building 
    inspector - when I moved the horses three years ago he said 
    we had plenty of land for them - the barn (really a shed) is
    located about 5ft from the property line - 
    
    	Does anyone know if I am breaking any zoning laws?
    
    	The horses are only in the shed at night.. 
    
    I can't believe they bought a house next to horses when they don't
    like them.. - this hole thing keeps me tied up in knots.. 
    
    Thanks for letting me vent.. - Donna

    Donna, 
    
    Zoning laws vary from town to town, you'd have to call the ZBA directly
    to be sure.....but the barn being 5ft from the property line is AWFULLY
    close, you may run into trouble there. 
    
    How many horses do you have on the 3 acres? Many towns have a limit as
    to how many horses you are allowed to have per acre, you'd need to
    check that with the town as well.
    
    Considering all the troubles this neighbor has given you, I'd consider
    talking to a decent lawyer.....although seeing as the people moved in
    knowing the horses were already there, I cant imagine them having too
    much luck legally.
    
    Good luck!
    
    

    I am on the Planning Board in my town.  We do not have any livestock
    rules in my town but we do have set back requirements for buildings. 
    You can go to your local town building and pick up a copy of your towns
    zoning rules and regulations.  You also need to find out if your
    barn/shed was built before the zoning rules were approved.  If it was
    built before the rules were approved you can be grandfathered and rules
    will not apply to the existing barn. 

    Donna,
    
    just read about the trouble you are having....dejavu!!!  I'm the one
    who has to move my horses because of a newcomer in the neighborhood.  I
    guess you know by now the rules of livestock in Chelmsford.  1 animal
    over 40 lbs per acre and one for every add'l 15K sq ft.  
    
    I just added a note about a MA state law that say Manure from livestock
    cannot be considered a nuisance.  Let me know your address and I'll
    send a copy, I'm sending one to our Board of Health and Board of
    Appeals.  It would be nice if more people sent in copies!!! 
    
    Hopefully, your situation got straightened out.  We're still working
    ours!!!  Can;t get the abutting neighbors lawyer to call us.
    
    Where to do you live in chelmsford?  
    
    Another Frazzled Chelmsfordite!!!!
    Caryl

    FWIW, those of you who have legal battles going on, my experience of
    lawyers is that, since they represent their clients right or wrong, 
    they will attempt to wear you down over time.  So don't let them get 
    you upset, because that will wear you out faster -- which is their 
    goal. 
    
    One tactic -- as long as you are legally in the right -- would be to 
    simply continue to reply to them in writing with the appropriate law 
    copied verbatim (you can look up state and local laws in your library).  
    Make sure you keep copies of everything you send to them.  That way, 
    if they decide to try to intimidate you by taking it to court, you have 
    proof that you responded to them and you show that you know your rights.
    
    Be extremely polite in all dealings -- no matter how ugly your
    neighbors may get -- and just consider your responses tobe part of your 
    weekly chores.  Distateful, but unfortunately necessary.
    
    Mary

    NOW WHAT DO I DO?  The new persone has yet to buy the property and the
    current owners won't give us permission to use the additional 15K I
    need. We've gotten a letter from the town get rid of the add'l horse or
    go to court!!!  My husband said we should just wait for the new owner
    to purchase the property (maybe in a month or two).  I am going to call
    the prospective new owner tonight to get a feel on his view, will he or
    won't he let us use 15K feet.  That is if he buys it.  It's contingent
    on a right of way and so far he's not doing well!!!
    
    Has anyone been in this predicament before, re: town and court!!  I'm
    ready to find home for my little mare but that will really upset me!!!
    
    Just venting, thanks for listening!!
    
    Caryl

    
    Caryl-
    
    Find a temporary home for 1 of your horses, until the dust
    settles and a new owner purchases the property.  Once the
    property is purchased by a new owner, approach them with "hat
    in hand", and ask to borrow/rent/lease the 15k you need.  I would not
    call the prospective buyer, as s/he is only a prospective, and
    not the new owner yet, and because that could clue him in to
    there being a problem, and s/he might not want to get involved....
    Also, when you "allow" someone to use a part of your land, those using 
    it can lay claim to it under some law that is like a grandfather clause.....
    
     We use part of our neighbors front property to get to my barn.
    We signed a paper saying we do not lay claim to it.......
    
    Lynne

    I know about the 20 year "homestead", don't know what it's officially
    called, but if you use land for 20 years you can lay claim to it.  
    
    We ran into that problem with a neighbor who put the corner of his
    driveway on our property, rather than have him tear it up we contacted
    our lawyer and have him write up a legal document stating the could
    have a right of way which protects us.
    
    As far as moving a horse....unless I can keep her somewhere with no
    charge, I can't move her anywhere.  I have two kids in college and
    cannot afford board for a horse.  I have a friend who's barn is full
    and she's getting a new one any day.  The alternative I have is to put
    them in a pasture three miles from home.  But with no shelter, I can't
    do that til the weather gets better!!!
    
    I have a neighbor on the other side of the woods who talks to the
    "Prospective" owners now and then...and she told him of our problem and
    he stated he would be more than willing to help!!!  But, we'll see. 
    He needs a right of way through the railroad tracks before he'll buy
    the property, I'm going to offer him a right of way through my yard (if
    he can get around the swamp!!) in exchange for some land.  We'll
    see...but for now I just have to keep hangin in.  
    
    I really don 't want to give my mare away....I'm really attached to her
    and she is the greatest horse!!!  She'll do anything, go anywhere and
    has lots of spunk.  She's got great bloodlines (Sonny Dee Bar) and I'd
    love to breed her some day, but of course unless I move or acquire some
    land, that ain't going to happen!!!
    
    Caryl

    
    Could you free lease her out to someone?

    re: free lease
    
    Only after I investigated every possibility...it would have to be an
    exceptional home.  She needs an intermediate rider.  I got her as a 5
    year old and she had already had 6 owners, and I don't want to see her
    messed up.   It took alot of work to get her over her phobias. 
    
    I've given it some thought (free lease), but not ready to do that yet!!
    
    Caryl

    Caryl,  examine all the issues, costs and the timing involved.  What 
    would be the cost of going to court vs the cost of boarding one horse 
    out for a few months?  How long can you stall the town to hold off 
    going to court?  What's the outcome if the town takes you to court?  It
    will take them time to get a court date -- the issue could be resolved
    by then, in which case they will either drop charges or the court will
    throw the case out.
    
     Even if the town takes you to court and wins, what will
    they get?  An order for you to move the horse within some specified
    period of time?  Maybe if you let them know that you are actively 
    working to seek a home for your mare, they will back off.  (Or maybe
    they will increase their pressure -- people in power just love to throw
    their weight around!)  Don't let anyone know that you hope to lease
    land from the new owner -- depending on who finds that out, they could
    hold up the sale just to prevent you from doing that!
    
    mary

    Latest update......
    
    According to the town lawyer we cannot lease or rent, we must own the
    land that abuts ours!!!  I've been trying to contact the owner of the
    property behind us but he has an unlisted number and the only number I
    have is for his answering machine.....a "real" person never answers.
    
    He knows who I am and what I'm trying to accomplish, I've explained
    both on the answering and a person I know, who  abuts the other side of
    him has explained the circumstances.
    
    so it looks like my chances of keeping the second horse at this house
    are slim to none - and I've got til Sept 4!!
    
    I guess the next step is to talk my husband into moving.....
    
    Caryl
    

    
    
    	I am sorry that your still having problems, we are going 
    	to get our property surveyed this month.  I am so glad that
    	I found a place in westford that fits our schedule, until
    	I can get this worked out.
    
    	I really don't want to move but, we have discussed it and if
    	there isn't enough land we are going to move.  
    
    	Thanks for keeping us informed