Conference noted::equitation

    
    I have had my old mares foal at nearly 12 months on two occasions.  
    
    It made me crazy but the mares and foals were okay.  
    
    You might keep an eye on her to make sure the foal is kicking.  Can 
    you tell if the foal has turned?

    I have known some mares to go for almost 13 months.  I agree with the
    last questions in the previous note.
    It seems that you are working closely with the vet so keep calm.  Maybe
    the mare thought it was too warm last week to deliver and held
    off...one week isn't that late.
    
    Good luck...keep in touch
    

The foal may be late, but it may be for it's own good.  My sister had a mare
(21 years old) who delivered on time, but the the foal was basicaly a month
premature in it's development.  Be patient.  Don't worry until the vet starts
to worry.  Remember, they've seen a lot more deliveries than you have! 

How many *human* women do you know that delivered *exactly* on their due date, 
and how many were late?  

    My gelding's dam, a 20 year old thoroughbred, carried him for just
    over 13 months and he emerged healthy and happy. If you have a vet that 
    you trust, and who is keeping tabs on the situation, then you are doing
    all that you can.
    
    So it is not as uncommon as it may seem.

    About those crooked front legs.  You most likely don't have to worry.
    I've had foals who looked like saw-horses when they were born, and
    one filly who had no chesst at all it seemed -- both front legs coming
    out of the same hole!  They turned out FINE!  I really had thought
    they both would be write-offs, but the vet I worked with kept saying
    not to worry.  He said lots of folks on the big breeding farms, with
    money to burn, spend thousands on braces and casts, and whatever, but
    it's been his expereance that they straighten up on their own.  And
    he's been involved with breeding farms for years, so he's seen lots of
    examples.  Nature does wonders, here.  If the legs look like an "X",
    for example, this puts more stress on the outside edge of the knees,
    and the bone responds by growing more vigoursly, which straightens ut
    the joint  So just give it time.
    
    -ellie

    We have found that colts, in general, aren't as easy to handle as
    fillies.  Some of our colts think they are "manly" before they have any
    idea what it is all about.
    
    Good luck....they do come around.
    
    Kathie
    

    Yeah, I'd agree with that. Most colts are nippy. According to a recent
    article in EQUUS on geldings vs. mares, they claim that even gelding a
    colt won't *ALWAYS* make that tendency to nip go away. 
    
    Some people claim that mares are "moody" due to hormones during their
    heat cycles. I've never had one that was like that but I guess some
    mares could be. At least they don't nip!

    Hi folks,
    
    Everyone seems to agree on the colt versus filly issue, I wish I
    had one to compare. I could live with the "nip" personality of the
    colt if it wasn't accompanied with such vigor. This little darling
    lays his ears back flat on his head and doesn't look friendly about
    his intentions at all! Even at grain time, which should be a happy
    moment for him, he backs up away from his feeder...ears flat on his
    head...and waits for you to fill it and GET OUT. The only thing that
    appears to make him happy. (anytime)
    
    I am totally caught off guard by this behavior. His mother is a very
    gentle, laid back, loving horse and he has never been exposed to bad
    behavior by another (?) From the day he was born he did not want to
    be touched and it has been a battle to TRY to make touching, rubbing
    and handling a pleasant experience.
                   ---------------------
    
    We are not discouraged so the husband and I will continue our daily
    campaign of TRYING to get a colt to LIKE and respect you. I would
    have preferred to use the word LOVE but that's really pushing my luck.
    
    
    GUESS WHO WON'T BE A STALLION IN THE FUTURE ?
    
    ** He is (4) months old now and our Vet does not want to geld him
       until early spring, hope that helps...He has been trying to *&^%
       everything since he was a week old.
    
                                                          Amy
    
    
    
    
    
    
       until early spring....
    
    

    Hi Amy-
    
    your note got me to thinking about a yearling filly I know of....she's
    much better as she's maturing, and out with the others....but she's
    always pining her ears back, espicially at feed time...she sounds just
    like your colt.  I kinda wish she'd nip, because she does something
    worse....rearing.....she's realy hard to work around sometimes.
    
    One of the new colts is a real sweetie, despite the fact that the mom
    was a complete witch.  We weaned them early as we couldn't get near him
    with out getting kicked or trampled.   She moved on to a retirement
    home....no more foals for her!
    
    Good luck, I know what your going thru....
    
    Michele

    Any possibility that he is trying to set a up pecking-order
    with himself on top ?
    
    Maybe he needs a lesson in who is really the boss.
                                      ------


    

    amy ...
    
    i agree with -1 reply
    
    have you tried hand feeding him?? well by that i mean put his halter on
    and tie him (if he does) or just hold him and put a stud cahin on him
    and get his bucket of grain and feed him and brush him and stuff (do
    this all on the front end and when he gets bratty , give him some metal
    with his grain :*) ... you'll be amazed...
    he needs to think that when he gets grained he needs to be nice as
    well..
    
    I know what you are going through, we had a 1/2 brother to Secretariat
    and he was two and he was full of it (really playful snf cute ) well one 
    day , at feeding time playful almost ending up kicking my head in.. he 
    caught me in the thigh and was still after me..to make a long story
    short he was sold in two days :*)
    
    I was working the colt (my colt i'm riding and he did something, oh i
    guess he was eyeing the grain in the bucket rather than following me 
    closely, i turned around and slapped him on the shoulder.. and he
    worked his butt off on the LUnge line, and i didnt even have to get
    after him :*)
    
    		wendy o'
    

    Yeah, those little stud colts can be brats!  I heard or read somewhere
    that in the wild, this sort of behavior is routinely punished by the
    herd stallion, and they learn their place.  The theory was that you
    have to supply the chastising that the herd stallion would.  I had one
    really bratty colt, and this seemed to work.  I was nice to him as long
    as he was nice to me, but when he got agressive, he got whacked.  In a
    few days he gave it up.
    
    -ellie

    Thank all of you for the continued idea's and support. I am a real
    novice at this Colt training experience. The moral support and idea's
    are very helpful.
    
    From observation there appears to be some valid support in his trying
    to achieve a superior pecking order. We orginally allowed him to share
    (?) grain with his mother. From a fews weeks old he started to get very
    aggressive and attempt to push his mother out of the grain feeder! She
    needed her food and vitamins to support his demanding appetite of milk,
    so we provided a separate foal feeder for him. That seemed to please
    him and mom couldn't get near his!
    
    We have only hand fed him apples, carrots, etc by hand. He does seem
    to improve his attitude about that HOWEVER we need to be careful before
    and after a treat so he doesn't extend it to a fun BITE. If he thinks
    you are not paying attention the little guy will try! I shouldn't say
    little, he is huge for his age.
    
    I will try feeding him with a bucket first...then maybe touch later.
    Right now if I stroke him while he is eating ..he pins those ears
    and backs up until you leave.
    
    We do whack him for nipping/biting, and attempt at kicking and thank
    God he doesn't rear up (yet). HOWEVER I am reluctant to use too much
    force on a (4) month old. What we want to accomplish is a loving,
    trusting, relationship. I have fears too much force won't support that.
    It might give us more respect (from fear) but that is not want we want.
    
    To me, that is the last resort when all else fails and/or the animal
    is a potential threat or danger to humans. Right now he is still in
    the naughty Colt department.....Hoping and working to change that.
    
    Please continue to share idea's, experiences and/or training tips
    you think would be helpful.
    
                                             thank you....  Amy

    I am very opionated on this subject:  I have been hurt by colt/Filly's
    and have no intention of letting happen to my husband.
    
    
    I never .. Never give my 5month old treats.. ( it encourages them to 
    bite.. )
    
    They should enjoy your company you should have to encourage him/her
    to come to see you.
    
    I discrouage any one to play with there head like teasing there bottom
    lip.. (another thing that teaches them to bite).
    
    Maxi has been handled since she was 6 weeks old (that's when I got
    her or I would have started when she was born).  She is not allowed 
    at any time to get away with any tricks.  She must wait to get her
    grain.. She must move away from the gate when we go in.  She has
    learned to walk on a line with no temper tantrums.  She know how
    to have her feet cleaned and to be tied with out pulling.
    
    When she is hit for doing somthing wrong it is never on the face only
    on the neck or her back side.
    
    I have owned colts and they can be very nasty.... I usally take
    them away from there mother as soon as it is possible because they
    then have to depend on me not there mother.
    
    I usally geld when spring comes.  So they are usally a year old
    when spring is hits.  Most breeders will geld at 3months.
    
    Maxi is a wonderful colt she is my 5th she is very intellegent
    loveable filly.
    
    I don't know what the pros/cons to gelding early or late in a colts
    life.. (Iam sure there a note on this)
     
    There are many books on training a colts .. but, one thing is for
    certain they can get into bad habits fast - don't get hurt.
    
    They only get bigger and if they know that you are afraid of them they
    will just get worse not - better. 

    
    
    breeders cut at 3 months?? i'm surprised I thought most waited for them
    to at least drop , because of complications.....
    
    as far a gelding the horse.... i'm working a colt that was allowed to
    breed a couple of mares before he was cut, and hes still a sweetie 
    to work with. Oh granted he can decide he doesnt want to do something,
    but mares get like that too ;*)
    
    	
    			wendy o'
    
     

    I thought in the U.S. breeders usually gelded at 10 months or
    thereabouts.  I think this would be after their testicles had dropped.
    It also, for most youngsters, would be in the late winter/early
    spring, when you don't have problems with flies (I don't know that this
    is a factor, but it somehow rings a bell for me).
    
    My understanding is that in Europe they tend to geld much later --
    usually not till the spring they turn 3.
    
    Mary

    I am not sure if there is a standard time to geld or not, but because
    of his aggressive personality I asked my Vet to consider gelding as
    soon as safe and possible. He told me early spring, and did mention the
    flies being an issue. Because of pain, swelling and the Sac is left 
    open to drain naturally I guess insects increase the odds of infection.
    Not to mention, at least my Vet, instructs NOT to put anything on the
    cut just let it drain and don't touch the area.
    
    Frank Schneider who breds all my mares agrees STRONGLY with not
    touching the face or hand feeding particularly a Colt. I have books
    and like to try different idea's because the only thing I do know
    after having horses for over 30 years for pleasure is they are just
    like children. No two seem to be the same, and what works on one
    doesn't necessarily work on the next. Little "Rascal" is giving us
    a good lesson in Caution. He is beginning to come around a little.
    Some days he acts like being rubbed or brushed MIGHT be OK sometimes.
    
    Frank is supposed to come visit this weekend. Anxious for his input
    although I can probably guess.
    
    What I do for stress relief is a (pretend) ad for "Rotten Colt for
    Sale" and then I let my imagination finish the ad and put a out-
    rageous price on him for laughts.
    

    
    Once he is gelded, I believe he will make a wonderful
    gelding...aggressive and sure of himself.  That is what we have found
    with the "bad" boys that we have done.  Especially in the show
    ring...they really "go for it".
    
    It will all work out...good luck.
    

    Thank you Kathie for the positive note, I hope this turns out to
    be true. He is five months old now and I guess we will have to
    wean him. I had hoped to let nature take it's course but winter is
    HERE and he is huge, I fear he will start taking too much from his
    mother in the cold weather. He is getting a little easier to handle
    but still LOVES to lay his cute little ears back (and nip if you let
    him) but outside of that he appears to be improving.
    
    The big guy is not a horse lovers dream. Love him, groom, feed,
    exercise and give lots of positive touch (some of which he now likes)
    and the sweet(?) colt will behave until you're done, or he's had
    enough, then he'll try to bite you!
    
    I still might do that ad for him some day, mostly because I've
    never seen a real HONEST one about a little monster.
    
    We love him anyway...his mother has about had it...!

    This my own repy to .10 and a update ..Rascal was (1) on 7/2 and
    despite his charming personality had a relatively good year.
    
    He was very aggressive and was 'gelded' at (9) months with no 
    complications. Handling him has been on the improve. He has mostly
    stopped nipping (unless he thinks he can sneak in a cheap shot) he's
    quite bright and certainly knows rights from wrong in this space!
    
    He is almost 15 hands at one year and growing fast. He has great
    speed, muscular hind quarters, and unusual co-ordination for his age.
    
    My daughter-in-law will do his advanced training my health isn't up
    to it. She would like to event with him in a few years.
    
    Just an update to those of you who encouraged me through the growth
    of this little (rascal) 'RASCAL'.
    
                                                       Amy