Conference noted::equitation

    
    
    Just out of curiosity, could you explain why the Auction?  I guessed
    it was because this Don Hunt is dispersing his farm, but I was just
    wondering why.  Also, why they are not being auctioned with papers.
    
    Lynne

    
    I would think anyone that would want to represent an animal that
    was of good quality would first be there or second keep the
    papers with the horse..
    
    i think if it were quarter horses, i would personally ask them what is
    going on.
    
    		wendy o'
    

    On a separate subject re: auctions. I went to Crowleys sale on Fri
    night. I only went as it was supposed to be a "Registered" special
    sale. Meaning  special consignments of strictly registered horses and
    (hopefully) not like the traditional thurs eve meat market auction..
    
    Out of approx 100 horses, maybe 5 were worthy of owning. The prices
    were ridiculous. They were bringing in anywhwere from $1000-$2000.
    Only one horse was worth the price of $1900, whoever bought him got
    a great deal.. he was a registered App gelding. The horse is a world
    champion and has many superior titles. Friends of mine knew this 
    horse and there was nothing wrong with him..just one of those 
    circumstances. Everthing else there either had obvious reasons for 
    being there or came in from a farm dispersal. I felt that the sellers
    made out like bandits, and was really surprised the auction brought
    prices like that. I would be a little leery about putting out such 
    money on an animal where I had no recourse in case of unsoundness
    etc.. Some of the animals were in pretty "rough" shape and they were 
    bringing in what I would consider to be top dollar for an auction. Even
    the top auctions out west where your dealing in top bloodlines and 
    show horses are hard pressed to bring in that amount per
    horse.. I guess I was just surprised and wondered if this was normal
    for an auction in this area?
    
    Thx
    Marianne
    

    when is the next sat auction??
    
    I interested to find out what is goin thru there.
    I would also look at horses that are coming from out west, where?
    depends on the market out there..
    and also who is something to consider, most times YOU dont know!
    main reason is why are they there..
    
    also since things are so bad out there, the market for them is here,
    but then again, people (I THINK) pay way too much for things out here.
    a perfect example is auctions on tack and they have a whole lot to sale
    everyone runs up the price.
    heck I dont know how many times we used to go to brush auction out 
    in colorado, tack that someone bought a whole lot on and asked
    nicely if we could buy a couple of them..
    
    		wendy o'
    

    Two years ago a friend of mine bought a registered QH mare at this
    auction and paid a good amount of money for her.  The owner told her
    if the horse didn't vet to bring it back and he would give her her 
    money back.  The horse had navicular and they brought her back to
    return her and the guy told them he would take the horse home and 
    send them a check.  Of course they didn't give him the horse and
    brought her back home.  As the weeks went on, this horse was getting
    bigger and bigger, and the following summer had a beautiful chestnut
    filly!!  She sold the mare to a woman on the cape as a broodmare, and
    she was showing her in halter this year.  The mare ended up being some
    type of New England halter champion!  I guess it goes to show that
    you never know what you're buying at auctions!!

    
    I am curious about these auctions...I am not in the market for a
    new horse, but this discussion has made me wonder. Is it always
    a buyer-beware situation?? Is there any opportunity to have the
    horse you are getting vet checked or something?? I would think buying
    a horse without having it vetted is an incredible risk, and especially
    so a horse of unknown origin....I mean, why didn't the horse sell
    "normally" ?? I have a friend who used to own a 7 yr old registered
    Quarter Horse. He was a super horse and an incredible jumper, but
    he had this chronic lameness that after several vets and inumerable
    series of X-rays could not be identified. Just would one day be
    off, then fine for a few days, then lame for a week again, etc.
    My friends could not keep up with the vet bills and feeling the
    frustration of it all. She could not honestly sell him as a sound,
    ridable horse, so as a last option she sent him to auction. When
    she bought him originally she had him vetted and he passed fine...
    the lameness started a few weeks after she got him. After tracing
    his history through his registration papers, she discovered that
    he had been sold at auction once before as well. She paid 2500 for
    him, I am not sure what he sold for, but I know she took a big loss...
    I felt for her, but I also feel for whoever bought this horse at
    that auction. Seems there should be some way of protecting yourself
    if you feel compelled to buy this way. There are other, safer ways
    to get inexpensive horses... I paid 200 for my mare, who is 100%
    healthy at 13 and going strong, and my brother paid 500 for a TB
    gelding who is also problem-free and doing super heading into his
    second season showing at 8 yrs old. I don't mean to sound critical,
    it just seems that if you are going to buy at auction you should
    be prepared for the added risks as opposed to being able to do research
    on the animal *before* purchase.
    

    Hi Linda,
    
    I personally agree with you, auctions are most definitly a buyer beware
    situation.  I also find it a little odd that someone would buy a horse
    through the auction and then send someone $500 for the papers, how do
    you even know those papers belong to that horse.  Also, how do you know
    you will even get the papers???  I have been to a couple of racehorse
    auctions and have had the catalogs before the sale date, which gives
    you a chance to look up any information on the horse.  The horses are
    tattooed at 2 years old and the papers have the corresponding numbers
    so you at least know you are buying the horse that is on paper.  I
    guess there are times when you can really get a great deal, for example
    if someone is getting out of the business, or needs to cut down their
    stock to concentrate on young horses or whatever.  I really hate going
    to auctions, I always feel the horses are looking right at me, saying
    "buy me!"  

    I think if I were truly going to go to an auction to buy a horse
    I would go further out west. I think the quality of the horses is
    alot better. They are more production and performance sales, rather 
    than individual private consigners selling their handoffs. Some of the 
    auctions out there are more careful with their reputations also. You 
    can also find the consignor and sometimes work out an individual 
    agreement with them regarding returns etc.. I think even at crowleys 
    if you get out back and find the consignor you could probably arrange 
    something, but like one of the previous notes before, you're still 
    taking chances.
    
    I agree with Linda in reference to getting the catalogs before 
    hand to see whats going to be sold. They include registered names,
    bloodlines any earnings, etc.. The only thing I would be leery about
    as far as individual breed auctions are the industry problems such
    as the Quarterhorse tail deadening etc... a whole sep. topic....
    
    Marianne
    
    

    mare 
    
    YOu have made a very godd point..
    
    so people are more careful about their reputations...
    
    so... why dont we all just help them out :^}
    
    as far as out west I have been to many sales.
    Thats where i bought cil (cilly) and she has been with me for 9 years!
    The sales we went to they **had to be vet checked and they had to
    have .etc..... if not they were liable..
    I sold my other horses there, I never ever misrepresented a horse!
    We were a training barn and bought and sold horses so we were very very
    careful..
    
    as far as paints palominos If i'm going to use a horse dealer I will 
    use me:^}
    I prefer to see whats in front of me (unplanned visits)
    re.last
    how did she sell her broodmare??while i'm set now, I would like to find
    a nice home for my horse as a broodmare.
    
    

    A couple of weeks back there was another group of Arabians who came up
    to Crowley's from Florida.  These are additional horses that are coming
    out of the same area because the farms have folded.  
    
    Don Hunt seems te be acting as the broker.  I too would be careful but
    a
    friend of mine picked up a couple of the horses from the last lot and
    they were fine.  It seems the main reason they are coming through here
    or so I have been told is that they have to get rid of them and the
    Northeast is where a lot of them come to the "packers".  This type of
    a story always breaks my heart but there is so little anyone can
    do about it.
    
    Thanks for listening.
    

    Wether it be at an auction, dealer, or private owner it is always buyer
    beware! I personally cannot attend auctions as I am too soft, horses
    are pets to me. Of horses I have gotten from dealers, none have stayed
    with me more than a year. I now buy all horses from private homes, and
    the first question I ask is not how old, or how big, but why are you
    selling this horse? I now have the best horses I have known in the last
    18 years, and have spent far less money to accquire them. My point is
    patient shopping is the best way, and auctions don't give you that
    option. I never could understand why someone would charge more for a
    horses papers, when they legally can't use them on another horse.
    Sandy
    

    
    
    A horse's value as breeding stock is directly related to that horse
    having papers.  A mare that is unsound for riding can still, in many 
    cases, be used as a broodmare.  A mare that belongs to a friend of mine 
    foal foundered and was dead lame on all four feet.  This mare had a Sonny 
    Dee Bar filly last year that was first in her class at the Solid Gold 
    Futurity in Springfield, Ill.  Another example is a TB stallion in Ill.
    that broke down on the track.  He has no sesimoids left in his right
    front ankle and his pastern angle is about 90 degrees.  He was rescued
    from the killers and has been siring some very nice foals for his
    current owners.  Neither of these horses would have survived except for 
    the fact that they had papers and could be used for breeding.  Geldings
    and horses that are not used for showing or breeding don't really need
    papers. I have a 27 year old purebred Appy gelding that has no papers
    and has never needed them.   
    
    Re. .3 
    
    One of the reasons that outrageous prices are sometimes paid for
    average horses at auction is that the seller will have several of his
    friends/family in the sale crowd bidding on his horses against people
    that legitimately want the horse.  These friends/family stop bidding at
    a certain level and then let the horse go on down the road.  This is
    sometimes done to keep a certain horse from the killers, but is most
    often a form of price gouging.  I have seen this done with tack as well
    as with horses.   
    
    
    Pat
    

    Some of the auctions/dispersal sales out west will send you catalogues,
    vidoes, are very helpful on the telephone etc.  You will find that
    sometimes one of the big farms (Gary Raak's in Minnesota) will get
    rid of everything but maybe 3 or 4 mares and they have some really
    nice horses.  They are a lot cheaper out west, I was floored when
    I bought my mare last spring in New Hampshire and I found out she
    had been sold at an auction in Ohio and I called that previous owner
    and he asked me what I paid for her and told me what he had sold
    her for and I paid 2 1/2 times what he had sold her for!
    
    You never know, but you do have to be very careful and we are a
    lot more expensive here!!!!!!!!! 
    
    KJ

    re.last..
    
    not only that, i'm kinda leery about horses sold with the wrong papers,
    whos to say the horse didnt come from california, resold in wyoming 
    and then brought out in nh/ma whereever?
    
    i have heard of people purchasing horses and come to find out they 
    were stolen and changed hands 2 or 3 times. I would think it would 
    cost them more money..
    
    well there are proably war stories about all sorts of things, i'm
    just lucky i never had any problems, I would be heartbroken if
    my mare never turned out the way she did!
    
    	wendy o'
    

    Geldings sell better when they have papers.  Even some of my local
    QH shows have "REG" classes, which require all horses to have papers.
    This calling Don Hunt sounds fishy to me, but, at auctions, it is
    "LET THE BUYER BEWARE".  When I was out in Texas, most of the horses I
    looked at, if they had something wrong, the owner had mentioned
    it.  I don't know if they are more honest, or value their reputations,
    or what, but when I was looking up in the NE area, I had some pretty
    rotten people try to sell me blind, crippled, navicular, splint
    lame, cribbers, windsuckers, etc. I asked up front if there were
    any bad habits or problems, and the response was, "Oh no, this horse
    is 100% sound, no vices, etc."  Until I mentioned the vet check,
    and then it was, "Did I mention this horse has a splint, is lame
    on left front, losing vision in right eye, etc."  Not being very
    knowledgeable at that time, I had no choice but to pay for a few vet
    checks.  Luckily, I had asked a reputable vet who was honest about
    a Morgan I had a crush on.  The poor thing was lame in three legs,
    the left front vetting out as possibly navicular.  
    
    So, I would not be a likely candidate to purchase at an auction,
    but I am going to my first one this Friday night, just to look
    and see whats going on.  
    
    L-

    friday night???
    
    where???
    		WENDY O'
    
    
    

    There is no great mystery or intrigue attached the the papers of these
    horses.  I'm not sure that you could get the papers even if you did get
    ahold of Don Hunt.  The only reason his name was mentioned, is because
    he is the middle man and probably the only one who knows where these
    horses came from.  There is one simple reason why the owners did not
    include the papers with the horses to be sold.  THEY ARE BEING SOLD FOR
    MEAT NOT FOR RIDING PURPOSES.  Personally, I hope that the papers
    cannot be obtained for any price.  This is just another case of the
    irresponsibility of many (most?) large Arabian breeders over the last
    few years.  After breeding anything that moves for ten years, they have
    now produced a glut of horses in their own areas, and now they are
    going to compound their own greed by dumping these poor animals on
    own little piece of the world.  I'd like to think that they have
    honorable intentions by not sending the papers, but I doubt if it is as
    much to protect our market as it is to keep people from finding out
    what they have done (and thereby ruining the price of the stock they
    keep for sale).  This is not dispersal as much as it is culling and
    therefore you should be especially careful of these horses.  The only
    reason it was mentioned is to save any few that might be healthy from
    the killers.
    
    Sorry but this really gets a burr under my saddle...
    
    SET FLAME/OFF
    
    Bob
    

    I wouldn't trust the papers they sent, even if they were free.  Like
    I said earlier, I was burnt bad by an auction.  My gelding supposedly
    was AQHA registered.......but after I bought him (at the time I didn't
    care or know enough to care) the papers I got were for a 16 hh TB.
    this guy was barely 14.2.  They told me they'd straighten it out
    later... well I'm glad I never held my breath.  The chick never
    returned my calls and when we went back.....she couldn't remember what
    we were talking about. 
    
    If anyone is lucky enough to find a good arab up there, and it is
    possible - i think, I'd forget about the papers.