Conference noted::equitation

    I also own standardbreds that I both ride and race.  (Please don't
    put down racing until you've tried it, it can be lots of fun!)  I
    find with my mare who has been off the track now for 5 years, she will
    pace when she gets nervous.  I had time at the local indoor ring and
    when I would try to make her do a sitting trot, she would go right on
    the pace.  I know how frustrating it can be because I can't ride my
    mare on a snaffle either, which is what she raced in.  All she will
    do is pace so I have her on a Tom Thumb Pelham, which you couldn't
    use in dressage anyways.  When you get her into a slow trot, does she 
    seem to be fighting you?  That could be what is making her pace, when
    you are trying to slow her down, she's trying to go faster and just
    going over to the pace because she's nervous.  Does she lunge?  
    It would be harder for her to get on the pace in a small circle and 
    maybe she will get the idea.  Good luck, I know how much time and
    patience it takes, I've been there many times!
    

    I have a Tenn. Walker that I am trying to keep all her gaits and
    at a trot when I ask for slow and collected she sometimes gets
    confused and goes into the running walk instead. What I do for her
    is to start the trot again and as we slow down and I prepare to
    stop posting and sit I count out loud for her 1,2,1,2 to let her
    know to keep the gait. This could help in schooling your horse too.
    She is starting to get the hang of it without the voice command
    but we have been at it for about 4 months. As for the bit, I think
    a double bridle is permitted for dressage. It's a lot of reins to
    keep track of, but my horse needs the curb from time to time.
    Sandy
    

    
    Full bridles are allowed only in UPPER dressage levels.  (Starting at
    4th, I believe).  Sounds like this is not a 4th level horse yet.

    Hi Lyn,
    
    I have a morgan ex-roadster who is wonderful over fences but
    abominable in dressage. We eventually learned to do training/1st
    level dressage, but it was a trial getting there!
    
    For novice level eventing, the dressage tests used are Training
    level 1 and 2.  The only sitting trot in them is about 20 feet
    before cater depart (once in each direction) - so it won't be too
    awful if you can't slow down ('course you don't want to run into
    the canter). I suggest you find a horse trial or dressage show
    and watch some of the tests.
    
    The pelham you use is acceptable for jumping but not dressage.
    You'll need to school her to accept the snaffle. You might try
    a french snaffle, or maybe a controlling noseband (dropped,flash,
    or grackle). Double bridles aren't kosher until 3rd/4th level.
    
    For schooling a slow trot, always make sure you posting rythym
    stays slow - no sense inciting her to rush.  Then try this
    exercise over and over until she relaxs and trots slow.
    Start at a camlm walk. Ask her gently to trot.  The first couple
    steps should be kind of slow.  As soon as she speeds up ask her
    to walk again calmly. Use posting trot at first and eventually
    progress to sitting trot.  Sitting trot sometimes confuses horses-
    the seem to think since you aren't posting they shouldn't be trotting.
    And make sure you praise her when she's doing what you ask.
    
    Good luck,
    maureen
    
    

    
    Hmmm... some interesting ideas here..thanks!
    
    She does not seem to fight me about anything, she just does not
    seem to understand that I want her to trot rather than pace slowly.
    She does have a good attitude, but the problem with the plain snaffle
    is that she just sticks her nose up in the air...I will try a dropped
    noseband as recommended...
    
    How about the idea of trotting her through a series of cavaletti
    set close together, so that if she extends at all she will hit them?
    Can a horse pace through cavaletti? She never has before, but then
    we hve not done them very much, and what we have done she usually
    just jumps the whole thing....
    
    To the person who races Standardbreds...are they all raced in
    snaffles??Is it ordinarily hard to retrain them to canter? When
    I first rode her, all she woudl do was pace and when she did finally
    break that, it was into a gallop, very fast. That is all changes
    now, she really has come a long, long way, but I have a friend who
    also has a Standardbred (who never raced at all), and his canter
    is REALLY bizarre! 4 beats sometimes, 3 others, and bunny hops the
    rest! But are really sweet horses, though, mines stable manners
    are the best I have ever seen in any horse..and my friends horse
    while a bit odd is real gentle with her kids and a great trail horse.
    
    I find racing facsinating, and it does look like fun, I am small
    and had a chance to work at Rockingham Park as a excersie rider
    a while back..but I get too emotional...I could not bring myself
    to gallop a 2 year old like that knowing what it is likely to do
    to his legs....my brother owna a TB with two bowed tendons, he
    won his first 2races and bowed both in his 3rd...it is so sad! The
    horse ws sold for 500 just to get rid of him..what a sad way to
    treat such nice animals!
    
    ANyway...thanks everyone, I will try these ideas and let you all
    know what happens!
    
    Lyn
    
    
    

    Horses are raced in all different types of bits, but most young
    ones are broken with snaffles.  I have a 6 week old standardbred
    pacing filly who came out of the barn pacing when she was 2 days
    old, so the gait is bred right into most of them.  It is really
    important to teach them to have a good mouth when they are young,
    just like riding horses because once they learn to pull, chances
    are you will end up putting harsher and harsher bits in their mouths
    to get them to stop.  Its easier for a horse to pace when their head
    is checked up higher because they lean right into the check to keep 
    their gait going.  Have you tried a running martingale or draw reins
    to get her head down?  I have found these to be the most effective
    means.  When you put the snaffle on her does she go with her mouth
    open?  If so, the drop noseband should help you correct that and maybe
    she will flex on her own.  She shouldn't be able to pace very
    effectively over trotting poles because she won't be able to get the
    height she could get out of the trot.  Try the lunge line too because
    in a small circle like that she will crossfire, start hitting 
    herself and be uncomfortable.  Maybe you could have someone lunge her
    while you are riding her so she can get the idea about going slow
    on the trot.   Good Luck!!

    Just another thought, be careful that at the sitting trot you are not
    leaning too far back and/or stiffening your lower back which may cause
    your horse some discomfort in his back and thus he starts to "rush"
    away from it.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Linda
    

Lyn,

	In your original note you mentioned your mare doesn't
	move slow enough to sit to without breaking the gait.
	Do you mean that her posting trot work is okay?  If so,
	you shouldn't be changing the rhythm any when you go
	from posting to sitting.  It can be tempting to slow 
	a horse down to make it easier for *you*, but you should
	maintain the same forward tempo regardless of whether
	you're posting or sitting.  In fact, you might be making it 
	harder for her to carry you by slowing her down.  

	Also, unless your horse has developed some fairly good back
        muscles, you might not want to do any sitting trot yet.   
	If you find her	sitting trot is 'unrideable' unless you slow
	it down, then she's probably not using her back.  A couple
	reasons why she might not be using her back are: 

	1) her back muscles are too weak or are strained
	2) she doesn't know how to use her back.  

	Both can be cured with correct training.  I should think
	the cavelletti work you mentioned would be excellent for
	her since it will force her to use her back.  But
	DEFINITELY post while trotting over them until she's
	very strong in her back.  You should feel her round and
	reach over the cavelletti and really put some bounce into
	her stride.   That 'bounce' is what will slow the rhythm
	down a little.    

	Best of luck,

	Melinda
	

    Let's see..there were several questions in the last few
    notes...
    
    As far as  the snaffle, she does not try to open her mouth in
    it, she just points her nose skyward and gets very strong...only
    when cantering though, she trots at a pretty quick rythm but
    does not feel like she is resisting me no matter what I ride her
    in (even a halter and lead rope). I mainly use  the Pelham for
    speed control at the canter, with it she goes nice and round and
    yes, slow and collected even...so I can work her in a snaffle for
    trotting work, would that be advisable? 
    
    I think her back muscles are pretty weell developed, although I
    could vry well be wrong...she has a very round canter and a real
    nice jumping form in that sense, rounds her whole body from nose
    to tail in the air....I suspect I do stiffen a bit when we work
    on the sitting trot, it is hard not to to stay aboard with all
    that bumping about...I will pay attention to that problem, thank
    you for mentioning it! My own riding can be tough to keep a proper
    eye on, I do not take lessons often, so the only real critism I
    have is when I show in equitation, I can tell how well my riding
    is coming by how high I place if at all...
    
    I think hre posting trot is okay...she places well at shows with
    what I consider a bit of a fast rythm, and it is very comfortable,
    the ackward part come when they ask for sitting trot and I cannot
    slow it down for fear of pacing....that is the only time she paces,
    by the way, except for occasions when someone else rides her, for
    some reason that makes her awfully nervous but it is so rare that
    I don't concern myself with that, yet anyway....
    
    Well, looks like this weekend with be spent ovr cavalletti...I'll
    let evryone know what happens! Thnks for all the ideas, I appreciate
    the help! :-)
    
    Lyn
    
    

    
    	I have not done any riding in years but just started
    	lessons again a few weeks ago.
    
    	I have in the past jogged and worked around racing
    	standardbreds.   The situation in Foxboro has killed
    	that in Mass.
    
    	As I remember the horses jogged and raced using two bits.
    	The reins went to a snaffle just like when you ride and
    	another small bit that is not hinged that went to the check.
    	I have no idea what the name of it is.
    
    	Anyway a martingale came to my mind also.  I think part of the
    	problem is when the horses are racing they are using the check
    	to balance themselves.  They are leaning on it.  If it is to
    	loose, in addition to the horse when in a bike getting his
    	head down where you have no control they seem to stumble
    	without a check bit/rein.
        
        The pace is definetly being bred in.  There is alot more
    	variety among standardbreds than thoroughbreds but I have also
    	seen foals pace at one or two days old.  
    
    	Maybe things taught at 2 are hard to unlearn at 9 (or whatever).
    	
    	Also pacers and trotters are shoe'ed differently.  It's late
        so lets forget spellig.  The angle of the foot and length of
    	toe are different.  I could never quote any of it but there
    	is a book available from the USTA (I think around $12) about
    	standardbreds and the chapters on shoeing explain it.
        Maybe shoeing them as trotters would help unlearn the pace.
    
    	The anti-racing comment didn't thrill me.  I think you are dealing
    	with a horse that has been trained very differently than others
    	and not understanding that you use a harsher bit ?
        I am sure there are jerks racing but there are jerks everywhere.  
    
    	Bill 
             

    
    Hi again folks,
    
    I tried the cavaletti, they seem to work well, but it is a slow
    process, I have to push them closer together in tiny increments
    as if she feels they are too close, she simply takes two at a
    time. But I keep working at it, and it seems to help. I have
    also swithced to a snaffle, and if I firmly emphasize my seat
    she will get he butt underneath her quite nicely. This howerver,
    does not help much with my Thoroughbred. He is very hard to
    collect, goes real strung out. I am wondering if longing him
    in side reins will help him develop natural balance on his
    own? He is a very nice mover, and very athletic, just needs
    to get off his forehand a bit. I ride him in a full cheek
    snaffle, which he seems to like. He is also AWFULLY lazy, which
    I suspect could be part of the problem, I have to carry a crop 
    with him, while the mare is jsut the opposite...she is actually
    afraid of them, even on the ground. Thanks, everyone. :-)
    

    I'd like to see an answer to 973.11's second question about strung
    out TBs.  I've got a new TB mare who was raced for a year, then
    used as a broodmare for 4 years (never ridden).  She is very 
    responsive, and we've already overcome the training problems of
    leaning on my hands and not understanding what leg pressure was
    for.  She is very athletic and a good mover - uses her rear well,
    but tends to rush her trot.  I've been doing lots of circles and
    trotting random patterns around jumps in our large arena.  Have
    also put off any canter work except on the lunge line until she
    begins to pull her trot together.  Right now it is tough to sit,
    although part of that is me - I had not ridden for 25 years until
    about 6 months ago - and I'm pretty sure my back is too stiff.
    I'm going to immediately begin working over cavaletti, but would
    appreciate any other suggestions y'all may have.
    
    Is there a particularly good book on beginning dressage training
    you would recommend?

    I don't know if anyone has mentioned this book/video yet but the book,
    "Centered Riding" by Sally Swift seems to be fairly helpful with hints
    for the rider and concepts to developing/maintaining a good position.
    
    As far as books for beginning dressage training, I don't know of any
    that I am crazy about however, the video with Kathy Connelly and Bill
    Woods is interesting.
    
    Good luck and welcome back to riding!
    
    Linda
    

    Reiner Klimke's book is good - but it's geared more to the training
    rather than riding aspects.
    
    -maureen
    

    I am at my wits today, as yesterday I had a lesson off a top
    event rider here in the UK.
    
    I had to hack up to the place where he was teaching so my horse was
    a little tired but worked well in the indoor school. 
    
    I was then asked by this event rider if he could ride my horse as 
    he wanted to ge the feel of him.  And of course my horse went really
    well for him in a really nice outline and on the bit.  He then said to 
    me that I could do with a stonger bit in his mouth as the one I ride in
    is too mild.
    
    I feel a bit confused as he said that my horse tended to lean on my
    hand and that I need something to pick him up a little.  I ride him in 
    a french link snaffle and a flash noseband as I do a bit of dressage,
    my worry is that if I put him into a stronger bit I wont be able to put
    him back into an ordinary eggbut snaffle or french link.  Help!
    
    I had thaught of trying a Dr Bristol to see if this makes any
    differnce, although to me my horse is NOT strong!

    If your horse was a little tired, then he may have been less engaged
    behind, which could make him lean a little on your hand and would give 
    the impression that he was strong.
    
    I wouldn't make any drastic changes based on one person's opinion given
    with one short ride in one set of circumstaces.  A stronger bit will
    not lighten a horses front end correctly at the lower levels.  Only
    increasing the engagement of his hind end will do that.
    
    Mary

    Just a thought, but does this event rider consider a French Link to 
    be a mild/kind bit.  One of my teachers does, and she considers the
    eggbutt or loose ring snaffle to be stronger.  This is because the
    single joint gives a 'nut cracker action' on a different part of the
    mouth to that presented by the gentler 2 jointed action of the French
    link.  
    Is there any possiblity of you asking this rider what he would suggest
    and how it would effect your reverting back to a 'softer bit' ?
    
    Just some quick thoughts 
    
    Judy
    
    

    Judy,
    
    I personnally think that my horse does not need a stronger bit, I had 
    a flatwork lesson this morning and he does not tug around the school,
    but I think what this particular event rider was getting at was that
    my horse sometimes leans on your hand if you lean on him, so what I
    have found is taking up the contact slowly and gently and not fighting
    againced him.
    
    I have considered putting him back into an eggbut snaffle but he seems
    quite happy in the french link and a flash noseband, but I think I will
    try to see if it makes any difference.
    
    Wendy