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Conference noted::equitation

Title:Equine Notes Conference
Notice:Topics List=4, Horses 4Sale/Wanted=150, Equip 4Sale/Wanted=151
Moderator:MTADMS::COBURNIO
Created:Tue Feb 11 1986
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2080
Total number of notes:22383

956.0. "foundered horse advice needed" by DYO780::AXTELL (Dragon Lady) Fri May 26 1989 13:37

    I need some help figuring out what to do with a horse I "rescued".
    
    Moose is a half starved 18 year old TB with the sweetest disposition
    you've ever seen.  Unfortunately, he's also foundered - and the
    last farrier thinks his coffin bone has rotated.  We've got him
    to the point where he can walk without limping badly now, but he's
    pretty depressed and I suspect in some pain.  I'm scared to fatten
    him up too fast for fear of foundering him again. Heck, I'm scared
    to even worm him right now.
    
    My mind says this horse needs to be put down, but my heart says
    no - that I should give him some time.
    
    Has anybody ever dealt with a situation like this?
    
    -maureen
    
    
    
    
  
    
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956.1MEIS::SCRAGGSFri May 26 1989 14:2317
    Hi Maureen, a mare at the barn I board at foundered last spring.
    There are so many different degrees of founder and ways of treating
    them.. I think the questions you should be asking first is when did
    this horse founder, what kind of treatment/care has he received from
    the beginning of it and what are you willing to put into him?  The
    mare at our barn went thru a toe resection at tufts. Her coffin bones
    have reversed and are fairly normal, but she is still lame on and off.
    She has her good days and bad. Her hooves are not totally regrown, 
    hopefully within a few more months they will be. Once a horse founders
    they are succeptible to it much easier in the future. I think one of 
    the most important things is to find a Vet that you feel confident
    they have enough experience with founder cases! In our case I don't
    think we had that and it complicated the matter.
    
    Good luck with your decision!
    Marianne
    
956.2Experience? yes, unfortunately...USADEC::MENARDFri May 26 1989 14:3042
    I've got more experience with a foundered horse than I certainly
    ever wanted!  (not than anyone ever wants that kind of experience)
    
    My mare foundered as a result of severe liver damage from poisoning.
    She foundered in all 4 feet.  I put the money into x-rays, which
    by the way is the only true way to see if/how much the bone has
    rotated, put heart-bar shoes on her, did a hoof resection on her,
    and then finally put her down.  However, that doesn't mean your
    horse is this bad.  Missy never had a chance to recover because
    the liver damage was what was causing the founder, and the liver
    damage didn't get any better - I equate it to leaving a horse that
    has foundered in the pasture that makes them founder.  At least
    if you can remove the cause they have a chance.
    
    You need to consider many things.  I have a friend whose mare founders
    very easy and we didn't think she'd pull out of the last episode.
     However she did and is even ridden again.                              
    
    Has he been x-rayed?  This will tell you the true amount of rotation.
    Is he currently on bute or anything else?  If he is not, and is
    starting to walk better, I'd take that as a good sign.
    
    How long has it been?  The quicker founder is treated, the better.
    Has there been much improvement?  Do you know what caused the founder 
    in the first place?  I would recommend not putting him out into
    a field of green grass, nor giving him anymore grain than you have
    to until he pulls out of it.  I strongly recommend
    x-rays and heart-bar shoes if you plan to save him.  If you opt
    for this route, please get referrals on the farrier you have put
    the heart-bar shoes on - heartbar shoes incorrectly applied do more
    damage than no shoes at all! (I'm speaking from experience)
                                  
    One of my horses kept going lame, yet showed no signs of founder
    upon exam.  The farrier was convinced his coffin bone had rotated
    quite a bit, but x-rays showed no rotation at all.  My mare, on
    the other hand definately foundered, the coffin bone rotated quite
    a bit in 3 feet, yet her soles never dropped.  So you really need
    the x-rays.             
    
    good luck!!
    
    Kathy
956.3Where there is life there is hope!PTOMV6::PETHMy kids are horsesFri May 26 1989 18:4520
    Another experience, only we won! The vet is the place to start.
    Get X rays to see what has happened, make sure the vet will let
    you keep them for the farrier to see. Then find a farrier that will
    trim the feet to the new angle of the coffin bone. The horse we
    saved had over 5 % rotation. We left her barefoot to save money
    plus you can't ride a foundered horse for about 6 months and they
    should be trimmed every 3 to 4 weeks. Nailing shoes on sore feet
    just didn't seem right. We gave her bute on really bad days but
    did not keep her completely pain free because she would run around
    and do herself more damage. As to diet: since he is skinny someone
    may have tried to fatten him to fast which started the foot problems
    in the first place. I would give him as much of the best hay you
    can find as he will eat. The grain he gets should be a low protein
    type say 10 to 12 %  with as little corn in it as you can find.
    I would also get a fecal count done for worms and get the vets advice
    for worming in light of his other problems. If you've got a year
    to spend for time and are a patient sort this horse may be saved.
    My 2 cents,
    Sandy
    
956.4a little more infoDYO780::AXTELLDragon LadyTue May 30 1989 16:2217
    Well we got the Xrays done - 7 degree rotation in the left front
    and almost 10 degrees in the right.  And he's on enough bute that
    I'm uncomfortable giving it to him.  Between the bute, the weight
    loss and the amount of time he stood out in the field, liver damage
    is a very real concern.
    
    I'm not sure when this horse foundered.  The people he came from
    noticed he was sore but just left him out to pasture (figuring
    that was best for him).  After a while they figured that his whole
    problem was that he needed shoes and pads!  These are the same people
    who didn't see he was a "little" thin or notice he'd gone blind
    in the left eye.

    I wonder why people have animals if they can't care for them?
    
    -maureen
    
956.5JUPITR::MENARDTue May 30 1989 17:2813
    Have you decided what you are going to do?  There is another drug,
    which is actually a human drug, isoxsuprine (sp?) which does something
    to the blood vessels (not a pain killer) to increase circulation to
    the feet.  I did see improvement in my mare with this.  I also put
    them all on Bio-Meth, a biotin-D L Methionine supplement which helps 
    repair the laminae in the feet.
                       
    You can do a blood profile to detect liver damage - it ran me about
    $40 for the actual blood work.  That will also tell you if anything
    is going on with his kidneys - which I believe can also be effected
    from bute over a real extended period.
    
    Kathy