Conference noted::equitation

    I agree with being afraid of the pilot for the water heater. What about
    electronic ignition? Are there any gas water heaters with that type of
    system. I have the electronic ignitions on my furnace, dryer and stove.
    
    I am concerned about propane in the house, however. With doing work on
    my kitchen, we seem to have caused a slight leak somewhere in my gas
    dryer. (It always seems to smell slightly of propane.) 
    
    For the amount of work, I would vote on #2. The previous stable I was
    in, had an electric hot water heater. We didn't have any problems
    with it in the winter. I feel it's alot safer than option # 3.
    Propane can be much more dangerous to work with especially in a barn.
    			Cindy
    

    re .-1, By the way, option 2 was stated as being more expensive to run
    since it would be on all the time. I imagine with the right amount of
    insulation, option 2 would still be the safer method.
    
    re .0, Can you find out from the electric company, the opproximate cost
    of running a water heater with x amount of insulation in a 40 degree
    room (Or however cold it may be). 
    
    			Cindy
    

    Hi Cindy,
    
    Thanks for the reply.  Gas and barns in my mind just dont mix.  Propane
    is a heavy gas and can settle like underneath the tack room floor.  We
    are purchasing the completely enclosed light fixtures to prevent
    sparking and aren't going to be storing hay in the barn, we will have
    an out building for that but still....  It's looking more and more like
    it will be around a 40 gallon water heater and we will insulate it
    pretty heavily as well as all the associated piping.  It's just such a
    big object that it is going to take up room either in the wash area or
    where ever we decide to put it.  The other thing is with either
    electric option, we will probably have to run 220 into to the barn. 
    
    I have seen at shows some portable machines that use gas that you
    attach a hose to and get unlimited hot water.  I don't know what this
    is called, but maybe this is an option also.  
    
    Maybe someone has some other options or ideas we haven't addressed yet. 
    Thanks again...
    
    

    If you're concerned about the electric hot water heater being on all
    the time and wasting money, you can get a timer to control it.  We
    had one at our previous house.  You can set it up so the hot water
    heater only runs when you need hot water.  We used to set it to go
    on about 1/2 hour before we needed the water, plus the times we set
    were the times when we were home.  Our water heater ended up running
    about 3-4 hours a day.  There is also a manual switch to turn it on
    and override the timers.  We'd use this on weekends when we'd want
    to do wash during the day.
    
    						Jan

    Thanks for the replies and mail.  It looks like we will go with the 40
    - 50 gallon hot water heater (all electric).  We are going to build a
    small room adjacent to the wash stall to house it in and insulate it
    like crazy.  The timer is a great idea!
    
    One more question?  Does any body have a smoke detector(s) in their barn? 
    I was wondering if it isn't too dusty in a barn for one of these. 
    Would it cause it to go off needlessly or not go off correctly?
    
    Thanks again...

    I have a couple of additional ideas:
    
    We ran our hot and cold water from the house to our barn. Had a
    ditch dug by a landscaping guy with a John deer tractor one week
    and he came back another week after the water lines were run to
    fill it in. Inside the barn the water line comes up facing the aisle
    surrounded by a 4 foot deep by less than 2 foot wide square of
    concrete which insulates the piping. We built a closet with a
    door on it above this. As an added measure we put heat tape around
    the copper pipes from the faucets emerging out of the closet and
    down into the concrete footing for about a foot. Inside the closet
    behind the faucets are turnoff valves because we ran additional
    copper piping up to the ceiling and clear across the other side
    of the barn and down to the back wall of a corner stall (prior to
    lining the stall with 2 inch thick lumber) for an additional outside
    water spicket to be used for watering, washing , or whatever...from
    spring-fall, the shutoff valves are used to turn this supply off for 
    the winter (This turned out to be an excellent idea...we are expanding 
    our barn on the end where this faucet is and the water supply will
    come in extremely handy!) We just went through a winter with subzero 
    temperatures and have had absolutely no problems. We just dug another
    ditch from the house and ran it approx. 200 feet to the cattle shed.
    This one was about 3 feet deep and the guys spread hay on the bottom
    of the hole and laid 1/2 inch flexible PVC pipe down with additional
    hay on top...and with copper piping attached to the end...ran it
    up through the bottom of an old concrete watering trough. They also
    ran underground electrical wire down at the same time. We put a
    heater in the trough during the winter to keep the water unfrozen
    and they rigged up some kind of simple float device like a toilet
    has to turn on the water when automatically to keep the trough filled.
    No more carrying pails of water to the beasts! With the electric..no
    more darkness either!(The calves can see!) We also ran a phone line
    into our barn about a foot beneath the ground above the water lines.
    We can raise and lower our water temperature from the cellar of
    our house. I keep in on the lowest setting for washing horses.
    
    I saw a device advertised that can go under your sink and raise
    the temperature of your faucet water. I'm thinking about putting
    this device in the barn so I can temporarily raise my water temperature
    really high for bran mashes. . .Maybe you've seen something like
    it?
    
    Don't forget to put extra water outlets and electrical outlets in
    your barn...and outside of your barn for things like spotlights
    or water to attach a hose to for your future convienance. Also put 
    half of your electric on one line with a circuit breaker and the other 
    half on a seperate line (2 electrical lines for the barn) if one set of
    lights trips a breaker...the other will remain on....safety precaution!!!! 
    
                  If you want more ideas or details...let me know,
    
    				Nancy
    
    

    
    I believe barns that have fire alarms vacuum them a couple of times
    a year to prevent dust build up.
    
    			Nancy
    

    One of my boarders does fire alarms fo a living and he says
    that dust is indeed a major problem. Vacuuming wll help, but
    it will have to be more often than a couple time per year.  You
    also need to watch where you put them. You can also get heat
    sensors, but barn temperatures are hard to control.
    
    The good news is that with these alarms, the worst that will
    happen is that they will set themselves off falsly.  It's irritating,
    but better than having them not go off when they should.
    
    -maureen
    
    
    

    I started to put this under the Ideal barn string (1486), but I think 
    I'd like to start a discussion, than to continue the wish list.....mods 
    feel free if you'd like to move this note......	

    Plans are in the preliminary stage for my barn.....Yeah!  And after
    reading the string discussing blankets and lugging hot water to the
    barn......I was wondering if I should re-consider hot water in the barn.
    Well, I had already thought about it for a wash stall......but you got
    those wheels-a-turnin'.....and now I'd like to consider it more.

    So, I'd like to hear from anyone who has hot water in the barn, any pro's
    or con's.  Costs for keeping a room heated.....general experiences......
    Anything....I have 6 months minimum to get the list completed, and I want
    to make sure I have all the basis covered.  And I couldn't ask for a 
    better method than to use this file pick other folks minds.  :^)

    Thanks...Michele
    

    Hi Michelle,
    
    Where I keep my horse, we have both hot and cold water, which isn't in
    a heated room.  There is a hot water heater attached, and the pump is
    kept covered in the winter with no freezing problem.  The barn we are
    currently designing will have a heated room, hot and cold water, a wash
    stall and hopefully a bathroom.  Those are the plans anyways.  
    
    Linda

    We too are in the process of dreaming for a new barn. 
    
    Our neighbors when we lived in NH had a hot water heater in their barn
    aisle without it being in a heated room. Probably very inefficient in
    terms of energy but it worked. They also had a tack room which was
    bascially unheated but they would use those oil filled heaters that
    look like old fashioned radiators to take the chill off.
    
    When we moved to Seattle 3 years ago, I was shocked that just about
    *EVERYBODY* here has a heated tack room! Two reasons: 1) electricity is
    cheaper and the weather is milder so the cost to heat is lower and 2)
    In this climate, leather molds very quickly if it's left in an unheated 
    space. 
    
    So, our plan is to have a heated tackroom with a hot water heater in
    it. That way we don't have to schlep the saddles etc to the house to
    clean them in comfort; they won't mold in the winter; and we can have a
    wash stall. 
    
    It's royal pain to have to carry hot water out to give a
    horse a bath and it takes too bloody long to heat it with those
    immersion heaters. One idea that we have used to get around these
    difficulties until we build our "dream-barn" comes from the hardware
    store. They sell this things that attach a portable dishwasher to a
    kitchen sinkfaucet. Usually, the dishwasher hose is connected to that
    thing and you run the dishwasher. Well, you just connect a garden hose
    to it; run the hose outside and give the horse a bath in the yard.
    
    Of course, if you have a utility sink in your house, its faucet may
    be able to accept a hose directly and you could skip the trip to the
    hardware store
    
    But I digress...sorry about that
    A 

    wow.....a bathroom......what a luxury!  I'm having a hard enough
    time trying to get hot water......I don't think I'll try for that 
    (although, the dream house should have a stratigically placed
    mud/wash/bath/winter_horse_stuff room....so the mud could be kept 
    to one area).
    
    I suprised that both of you mentioned not having the plumbing in the
    heated room....I guess our experiences have not been so positive.  The
    place we started boarding at had a heated room and of course hot water
    but the pipes kept freezing anyway....it seemed like a lot of work.  My
    girlfriend works for a woman who has warmbloods, and she has a nice
    heated tack room and water heater.....I just havent had the chance to
    meet her.
    
    

	The barn where I used to keep my horse has a heated tack room and 
	also hot water. I don't remember what kind of heat she had, but it
	was wonderful to put a warm bit in their mouth in the winter! ;^) She
	also had a washer in the tack room...

	Anyway, the water pipes and the heater were connected in the tack room
	with the water spigot coming out into the aisle. All we had to do was
	run a hose off of it... It was great to be able to top off buckets
	with warm water and to keep the toes and fingers warm after riding...

	Good luck with your barn!