Conference noted::equitation

    I got Potomoc shots on my riding horses last spring, and on my pregnant
    mare when I got her in October.  The two shots cost $15 each, in
    my opinion, $15 is nothing compared to the life of my animals.
    The horse who got PTF in Harvard hadn't been off the farm in a year
    and a half and they have no idea how it is transmitted.  Luckily
    that horse lived through it and set some records up at Rochester
    for having the lowest white cell count and living!  Never mind the
    amount of money it cost to save the horse.  I wouldn't think twice
    about this, and I plan to vaccinate my foal also.

    We have always given flue and rhino shots to the horses that show
    or even go off the property.  Even to the point that they are
    renewed every two months during show season.  They have saved
    us on a number of occasions.
    
    The Potomac Fever shot I know very little about...there are pros
    and cons.  I need to research it a little more.
    

    I also have always had my vet give Flu and Rhino shots.  My horse
    had the Potomac Fever shot last fall.  My vet (Suzanne Stillman)
    had notified her clients and recommended the vaccine.  There were
    as previously stated a couple of cases in the local area last fall.
    Because it is not known how PHF is contracted it does not matter 
    whether you plan to take your horse off your property or not, it 
    would be safer to have the vaccine.  My horse did not have any 
    reaction from it.  It is however expensive - there is one initial 
    shot and a booster to follow in 2 or 3 weeks.  The total cost was 
    around $40.  
    

    The shot list for my horse is Coggins, Eastern, Western, tetanus,
    rhino, flu, Potomac Horse Fever booster (he had the first 2 last
    year) and probably rabies.
    
    So far, all vets in the eastern Massachusetts area that I have talked
    to are recommending the PHF shots so, $15.00 for the shot isn't
    a huge cost considering I'd rather give my horse a fighting chance.
    He hasn't had a reaction to it; I've heard that the rhino is the
    one that tends to give them the reaction... Some people use Banamine
    or Bute when the shots are given to help reduce any reactions...
    
    Happy vet bills ;^)
    
    Linda
    

    
    This year all my Arabs will be getting Potomack horse fever. Not
    only has there been a case in Harvard but in Boxboro as well. I
    have heard that there has recently been a case to show up during
    the winter. Originally they thought it was transmitted by ticks,
    and mosquitos. They've been looking at an increased number of 
    horses becoming infected on farms with ponds or streams running 
    though, and also without. The winter case has everyone puzzled
    and some are guessing that it could have been caused by a tick in 
    the summer and for some reason didn't show up until the winter.
    	The bottom line is that noone really seems to have a handle on 
    the source of the disease. But it has spread this far north and 
    presents a real danger to our horses. Most people do not vaccinate 
    against because it is new to the area and they have not seen what
    what it can do to a horse...to quote one Vet..but they would if 
    they had. Vets are recommending Potomac Fever shots be included
    with spring shots. It is a 2 series shot and is effective for 1
    year. As far as I know it should not be given to pregnant mares
    because of the threat of abortion. Shortly I will have an answer
    on whether it is okay to use on lactating mares. I for one need
    to know where I stand with this shot with my pregnant mares.
    Any info on this subject concerning when it can be safely given
    to broodmares would be appreciated.
    
    		Hope this helps,
    
    			Nancy
    
    P.S. I recommend it as an ounce of prevention....be careful of who
    you listen to..not all VETS are atuned yet to the seriousness of
    this disease. It has to strike close to home several times before
    some sit up and take notice...this goes for everyone including 
    myself...I have begun to notice.
                                    

    Hi Nancy,
    
    I live in Harvard and the affected horse lives about 1 mile from
    my house.  Needless to say I got right on the phone to my vet and
    he said there was no harm giving the shot to my pregnant mare. 
    She had it back in November when that case was discovered and I
    have already gotten her spring shots.  I didn't get the PHF booster
    since I got the origional shots so late in the year and decided
    to wait until after the foal was born.
    
    Linda

    RE: Linda-
    
    	An affected horse lives 1 mile from you?  Thats scary!
    	Its amazing that the people we trust our horses health
    	with have such differences of opinion.  It does, however incease
    	my faith in my vet (McGee).
    
    	I guess we'll be setting up a clinic in the Grafton/Upton
    	area.  the shots are in the $10 to $15 range and we can
    	split the farm call ($25).  Anyone else interested, please
    	send mail.
    
    	Michele 

    I just called Rochester and asked about vaccination in pregnant
    mares.  The vet said that it hasn't been approved for pregnant mares
    or very young horses and that if she was going to abort because
    of the vaccination it would have been spontanious.  He also said
    the bacterin shouldn't cross the placental membrane and that most
    horses contain a titre against PHF.  The largest problem they have
    seen as far as a reaction to the vaccination is swelling where the
    injection was given.  Now I keep my fingers crossed for the next
    2 months that the foal is okay!!

    Re. .8 - that's interesting.  My vet just gave my yearling his shots,
    including the PHF.  He did not give the PHF to my pregnant mare,
    but said it is suppose to be safe for pregnant/lactating mares,
    but he'd rather not chance it.  He does, however, plan to give it
    to her when he comes out to check the foal.
    
    If you hear anymore on whether it is or isn't safe for
    pregnant/lactating mares or newborn foals, please post it here.
    
    Kathy

    RE: .9
    
    My understanding of the situation is that it hasn't been approved
    for use in pregnant or young horses, but that doesn't necessarily
    mean it isn't safe.  I would hope that I can have enough confidence
    in my vet for him to be able to make these decisions.  I guess it
    was the lesser of the two evils at the time considering how close
    the infected horse lived to us, and if my mare did get the disease
    she would have aborted and probably died anyways.  I just hope 
    everything turns out okay.  As for lactating mares, they didn't
    say anything about that.
    

    re .10
    
    Hi Linda,
    
    I was just wondering, do you use Dr. Gill?  I think he's *very*
    conservative and if he said is's ok, then I absolutely would
    trust that.
    
    I hope you'll let us know when the baby comes so I can visit!
    You have to come by my barn sometime soon and see how big my 
    baby is.  I hope you enjoy this experience -- it's one of my
    favorite things about owning horses.
    
    Gwen
    

    Hi Gwen,
    
    I use Dr. Terry McGee who is the track vet.  He cared for my mare
    all her life, her father and her grandfather too.  My understanding
    on shots is that as in humans shots aren't given in the first trimester
    because the baby is in the forming stage.  After the first trimester
    the baby is just growing.  Apparently the molecules from the shot
    are too big to pass through the placenta so the mare will be
    innoculated but the foal won't.  She was in her fifth month when
    she got the shot.
    
    I will definitly have you over when the foal is born, and you live
    so close too!  

    I asked may local (Ohio) vet about the PHF vaccine yesterday and
    got an interesting update - 
    
    The manufacturer is recommending that it be given every 6 months,
    rather than annually, in problem areas. This  has not shown up in
    recent ads or product literature, though.
    
    -maureen
    

    I'm in the Southern, New Hampshire area and my mare just got her Spring
    shots March 10th.  They were the regular shots she gets every year -
    tetanus, flu, rhino, strangles, etc. but this year she had two extra
    shots - Potomac and Rabies (she'll get 2nd series of Potomac 2 weeks
    from the 10th).
    
    Since I am going to be leasing her to someone else starting the 18th, I
    made a trip to the barn where she's to be kept to discuss her care,
    etc.  There is another horse and a pony also kept at that barn - the
    horse will be going to 4H shows, in fact.  These people requested that
    my mare also be protected against rabies due to some foxes in the area
    found to have rabies.  My Vet (Dr. Meehan) told the people I presently
    keep my mare with that they will also probably have to get all the
    other horses boarded there by clients their rabie shots next year like
    I did mine.  It seems there is a problem with rabies moving up this way
    from the south (carried by raccoons mostly).
    
    I don't know what the reaction was to your horses after receiving this
    many shots in a day, but the whole barn full were not feeling too great
    the 10th nor 11th.  By Sunday (12th) they were back to feeling good
    again.  My mare, the only one in present barn that got the extra rabies
    shot, managed to graze in the big pasture Saturday even though she
    couldn't seem to walk too fast and even staggered a little.  The
    gelding out with her didn't even feel like grazing; just stood in the
    sun or staggered over in some brush to stand quietly.
    
    Went out to bring a little water to them and my mare whinnied and came
    as fast as she could walk (usually she trots over to see me) and only
    took a few swallows of water (usually drinks more than that).  Gelding
    made his way over almost dragging his feet and even he didn't drink
    much.  I figured it probably bothered his neck when he lowered his
    head.
    
    Needless to say, none of the horses were ridden or worked those 3 days.
    I know she'll be protected and though it cost $57 total (including my
    share of the barn call), she's worth it.
                                                                          
    Pat
    

    Has anyone ever had a vet *not* want to give
    all the spring series of shots at the same time?
    
    I remember just one visit for shots at the place I used
    to board.  3 shots, one in the neck, and one in each
    rump, so as not to make an area tender.  Some of these
    shots were combos, but I can never remember what's wahat..
    
    Is there a potential health problem with giving them all
    the shots at once?  What shots are recommended if you plan
    on showing/being among other horses very often?
    
    Rhino
    EE
    Tetanus
    now of course, Rabies
    
    What else?
    
    Lynne
    

>    Has anyone ever had a vet *not* want to give
>    all the spring series of shots at the same time?
    Nope.
    
    
>    Is there a potential health problem with giving them all
>    the shots at once?  
    Not that I've ever heard about other than the risks that go along with
    any vaccination(allergic reaction, local swelling/irritation or infection
    at the injection site). 
    
    They've been doing EWTF combo vax for Eastern Encephalitis, Western 
    Encephalitis, Flu and Tetanus for many years. Those are quite safe. The 
    rhino shots are also safe and there is now a rhino and flu combo as well 
    as a rhino/tetanus combo. It seems logical that the EWTF and rhino shots 
    can be given at the same time without problems. When we were in NH, we 
    also did rabies at the same time. 11 years w/ 5 horses and never had any 
    problems
    
    >What shots are recommended if you plan
    >on showing/being among other horses very often?
    
    Rhino and flu are recommended every 3 months for horses which are
    showing regularly. We use the rhino/flu combo for that purpose.
    Strangles vaccination is also recommended every 3 months especially if 
    you're in an endemic area.
    
    >What else?
     Western Encephalitis
     Flu 
     Strangles
     Potomac Horse Fever
    
    In WA, there is very little rabies problem especially west of the
    Cascade Mountains. Our vet doesn't reccommend rabies vaccinations. In
    fact, he won't even give them! We can't buy rabies, PHF or strangles
    vax in this state so we have the vet do them. We buy the others mail order
    and give them ourselves. 
    
    When we were in NH in the pre-PHF days, we could get everything through 
    the mail. After several years of $300-400 vaccination costs, we
    strarted getting all the vax through mail order places. Saves a lot of 
    money if you have more than 1 horse and have to give shots every 3
    months! I think you can even get PHF in most states so check with the 
    catalog supply house or local laws.
    

	Yes, our vet prefers to spread out the shots, especially for those
	horses which are receiving alot of them. For example, my horse gets
	rhino/flu, EWT, strangles, PHF and rabies and he gets them in 
	'3 easy installments'.

	The vet doesn't charge for the return barn visits.

	The only risk is, as .-1 mentions, that if the horse is getting alot,
	they may be uncomfortable and lethargic for a few days.

    We're giving our own shots this year, and we were advised not to give
    them all in the same day.  It is real tough on the horse and they
    may get sick.  We're giving a EWTF, PHF, Rabies, and Rhino (for the 
    broodmares), and will probably do 2 and 2 a week apart.  Our vets
    don't recommend the strangles vaccine.
    
    A friends horse foundered, and they suspect it was due to recieving
    a bunch of shots in one day.

    Unfortunately, my vet *DOES* charge for a second visit!
    
    L-

    
    	There is one vet from Tufts who is recommending Strangles
    	vaccine this year, as there are several barns in the south-
    	central Worcester area who currently have it in their barns.
    	I know most vets will say it is up to you whether you vacc
    	for strangles or not, so your vet may not be suggesting it.
    
    

    My vet doesn't like giving all the shots at once either, so he leaves
    the extras and I give them to the horses myself.

My vet doesn't suggest giving the strangles vaccine if your horse has done any
travelling or is no longer a youngster.  The reason being that most horses
that have done any travelling (generally not youngsters) have _probably_
already been exposed and have some natural immunity.  That and the fact that
the vaccine actually gives them the virus, and how your horse reacts may vary.

Each spring my guy gets Eastern & Western Encephalitis, Tetanus, Flu, Rhino, 
Potomac, and Rabies in 2 shots.  Because the vet does the entire barn (60 
horses), there's no call charge for either the initial or the return visit.

    re: .22
    
    the exact reason why our vets don't suggest giving it.  One broodmare
    actually got the virus because of the vaccine.  She had the virus in
    her last days of pregnancy, with the internal abcesses.  Mare and foal 
    are fine and healthly.

    Please excuse my ignorance but what is PHF?
    
    Thanks
    

    Potomoc Horse Fever

    I hope I didn't leave the impression that we turn ours into equine
    pincushions! We don't.
    
    Although we've never had a vet recommend not giving all the shots at
    once, we don't give them all at once. We used to do that in NH when
    they were only getting 3 shots TOTAL. 
    
    Now, the vet does some of the shots(namely the ones we can't order in
    this state). A couple weeks later, we do the rest of the shots. Even if
    we had more liberal state laws and could buy everything ourselves, we
    probably wouldn't do 5 shots at once. You'd run out of good spots for
    shots!

    For those who do some/all of their own shots, I'm entering some
    guidelines that Dr Eleanor Kellon gave in a recent issue of The
    Chronicle:
    
    "                     AVOID LOCAL REACTIONS
    Many owners are using do-it-yourself- vaccine administration to cut
    costs. Without some key information, however, the owner risks increased
    chances of local vaccine reactions(abscesses).
    
    1. Use only vaccines which have been properly handled and have a
    readable expiration date, e.g., not ones that were shipped with a small
    ice pack that has long since melted by the time you receive the
    product.
    
    2. Know that flu vaccines, flu combination vaccines and antibacterial
    vaccines(strangles, endotoxemia) are the most likely to cause
    reactions.
    
    3. Use only the neck or back of the hind leg for vaccinations. The rump
    can't be easily drained  and treated if problems develop. Smaller leg
    muscles have nearby nerves that will be damaged by a reaction, and the
    chest muscle area is a bad place since any reaction can easily work its
    way directly into the chest.
    
    4. Remove obvious dirt and soak the area with alcohol. A quick swipe
    with a wet cotton ball won't help much.
    
    5. NEVER reuse(even after boiling) disposbale needles and syringes.
    
    6. Practice. A quick minimal trauma technique minimizes bleeding and
    tissue injury that can increase the risk of a reaction.
    
    7. Know your anatomy. Avoid shoulder nerves and lymph nodes, cervical
    spine and veins in the neck, and muscular tendons and the hip joint in
    the hind leg."
    
    There is a good article in a back issue of EQUUS which discusses
    doing your own vaccinations. It pretty much agrees with Dr Kellon's
    advice except that they think shipping vaccines with ice packs is OK
    and they don't recommend the alcohol wash at all.

    Alcohol wash? I don't remember a vet using any wash on the shot site.
    Maybe I just haven't been too observant though.  Do they usually wash
    the area first?
    
    Sharon

    None that I've ever seen do so. As I said, BOTH Dr Kellon & the EQUUS 
    article said not to try cleaning the area with a cotton ball damped
    with alcohol as it is in effective and perhaps counter-productive.
    
    I have never seen a vet give a thorough scrubbing with alcohol or
    anything else before giving a routine injection.

    All set for another year.....in 1 vet visit, yet!
    
    No reactions to shots, and both were good boys for the vet!
    Well, Abe was *almost* a good boy....He wasn't a happy camper,
    but he didn't drag me all over the aisleway/stall this time!
    And, Ranger's Angel was his usual *angelic* self! (:  
    
    Just have to wait for the neg coggins report...
    
    L-