Conference noted::equitation

    Sue,
    As a western rider gone dressage from my perspective flexion is
    achived the same way in both disiplines. The horse has to be taught
    self-carriage (pushing from the rear end) first then he can be trained
    to flex at the poll. How long this takes is determined by the horses
    natural carriage and balance and how fit he is when you start. Flexing
    requires that certain neck musules be built up and supple. Rushing
    this step is how horses that pull on your hands get started. My
    own horse took 3 months working with her 3 days a week 1/2 to 1
    hour at a time to start being able to flex at all. At that point
    I would warm her up, practice flexing for ten to fifteen minutes
    and then let her strech out again. Again, easy does it, your horse
    will tell you when enough is enough.
    
    My 2 cents,
    Sandy
    

    My instructor first taught me NOT to flex by using my hands (seesawing
    the reins) but by my legs. (BTW I ride english) In other words, Use the
    bit as a wall in which you drive your horse up against the wall by
    using your legs. The horse needs to be on the bit (in other words, the
    horse is playing with the bit and doesn't have it caught between its
    teeth) and the reins need to be tight enough so that you have contact
    with the horse's mouth but not restrictive. In fact, if by giving leg
    pressure your horse goes forward, it means your bit pressure is too
    loose. 
    
    			Cindy
     

    Hi,
    
    I believe that teaching a horse to flex should be the same no matter
    what discipline of riding you are doing.  It is in the same catagory
    as bending.  It takes time and alot of slow, consistent work.  There
    are far too many horses that have never been taught proper balance
    and head carriage.  No device or 'gadget' will do it for you.  Bitting
    harnesses, side reins, martingales, etc.. are training aids.  I have
    found the bitting harness when used properly to be very helpful.  It
    helps the horse to find his natural balance.  You can longe your horse
    in a bitting harness and help him to get the feel of balance.  He knows
    what is comfortable for him and in time will realize that what you are
    encouraging him to do with his body is easier then running around
    dragging himself with his front legs.  Using the bitting harness you
    can encourage your horse to move forward from behind and the side reins
    help him find a comfortable place for his head and neck.  The side
    reins should be adusted loosely, hopefully he will move up into the bit
    using his hind end.  It is important for the horse to get the feel, but
    the rider must also know what it should feel like.  You can get the
    feel by riding a horse that is 'on the bit'.  It will help you to
    understand what you are looking for.  It is important to start at
    the beginning with streching exercises.  I generally will walk my
    horse around on a long rein changing direction and encouraging him
    to reach down and stretch his neck and back.  Then I will pick up
    a trot still on a long rein and do the same.  When you feel the horse
    is relaxed and warmed up you can start to ask for a little more.
    Your arms and the reins work like an elastic. You arms and hands should
    be relaxed.  Don't just plant your hands in on spot and expect the
    horse to yield to you.  Chances are you will just get in a pulling war.
    Then again don't give your horse a mile and let him take more.
    Try to find a happy medium - an elastic feel from the arm to the mouth,
    your body sitting up tall, your seat deep moving with the motion,  
    your legs relaxed gently squeezing the horse forward when necessary and
    bending the rib cage in the direction you are traveling.
    You encourage the horse forward with your seat and legs and control the 
    energy through your hands.  If your horse starts to pull or lugg on the 
    bit use a half halt to lighten him up.  Defintely don't just go round 
    and round the ring.  Change direction using everyway possible.  
    Do alot of transistions.  Walk to trot, trot to walk, canter to trot,
    etc... It helps teach the horse to shift his weight 
    and rebalance himself.  Use circles and figures - serpentines work great 
    with my horse.  Lateral work is also essential.  After a session of
    work, let your horse relax on a long rein again,(give him enough rein
    to be loooong, at first he may try to be quick but give it a chance,
    stay relaxed and he will catch on, do it at the walk
    and trot (it can also be done at the canter but until you reach that
    point in training concentrate on the walk and trot, it takes some 
    confidence on your part and good balance on his to be comfortable at
    the canter).  
    Rub his neck, back, and hind end praise him and make
    him feel good.  (even if he has been better on ocassion)  
    
    I feel like I rambled on and on - but it is hard to explain in words.
    Patience is a key factor in schooling a horse.  In the begining you
    will only get a couple of steps at a time.  Defenitely praise your
    horse when he gives even if it is only a little.  It took me one
    year to get my horse truly balanced and 'on the bit' at all paces.
    He has his good, bad and great days.  But when it is right - you 
    know it and it feels great.  Don't overdue it.  All horses are
    built different and take different amounts of time to reach certain
    goals.  Be clear about what you are asking your horse to do.
    There is alot more to schooling your horse to be on the bit then
    can be written in black in white.  How about some others giving it
    a try??  
    
    Good Luck to All,
    
    Wendy    
    

    I am having great difficulty getting my twelve year old mare to go on 
    the bit, I have been trying persistently for four months now and there 
    has been no sign of improvement, she used to come on the bit very 
    easily before she went onto the riding school, (this was before I owned 
    her). She was on the riding school for three years in which time she 
    was used in an eggbut snaffle aswell.  She had all sorts of people 
    riding her from novice to reasonably experienced.  Could she have 
    forgotten what to do?  She is at the moment in a full cheeked french 
    link snaffle with a flash noseband, she does go better than when she 
    was without the flash.  Arising from this situation:-
    
    1) Would she be better in a fulmer snaffle or some other kind of bit? 
    (as I don't want to rush out and buy one incase its not right for her) 
    or would something stronger be better, as being on the school for three 
    years has made her mouth quite hard. 
    
    2) And would a martingale help?  She used to be in a running martingale 
    before I purchased her but it didn't seem to help.  But I thought it 
    did look a bit too long.  (What is the difference between a standing 
    and a running martingale)
     
    
    

    Try to use the mildest bit that she will respond to. Going on the bit
    is not so much in the bit but in the legs driving the horse to the bit.
    Martingales are not likely to help, just provide somthing else for her
    to fight you about. A standing martingale is used for a horse that
    tosses their head so high that they could hit the rider in the
    forehead. Properly adjusted they allow the horse to use the head and
    neck normally but stop them if the head gets too high. A running
    martingale has the reins run thru the loops and puts downward pressure
    on the bars of the mouth when the head is raised. Adjustment is very
    critical for this type as you don't want it pulling all the time. I was
    having problems with "on the bit" for TWO YEARS, a new dressage
    instructor has done wonders in only three weeks! I couldn't see that I
    had my reins too long and was not driving him out. The more I tried to
    pull his head tucked the more he pulled on my hands. Now I just hold
    steady and use the legs, and he goes right on.
    Sandy
    

    Just how strong is a `Full cheek French Link Snaffle' ?

    
    Hi,
    
    I agree with .1
    
    Here's a suggestion...
    
    Neither a stronger bit, nor martingale will help put your horse on the 
    bit. 
    
    Believe me...It's hard not to worry about where your horses' head is
    when it's right out there in front of you, but that's what you have to
    do.  (I still catch myself looking down and have to force myself to
    look up and concentrate on where we're going...where you look and the
    position of your head affects your position and how your horse moves,
    but that's another conversation...).
    
    I have found that the easiest way to put a horse on the bit is to NOT
    try to put them on the bit. 
    
    This works best for my horse (she's fairly green, but has worked for
    most horses I've ridden):
    
      1: Think LEG!  Impulsion and forwardness are the key in putting a
         horse on the bit.  No impulsion = no roundness (or false frame)
         Let your horse move right out.  Canter around the right during
         your warm up in a half seat...anything to get your horse thinking
         "forward".  Warm up on a long rein and encourage your horse to
         relax and stretch his/her neck out and down.
    
      2. The less you do with your hands the better.  When your horse is
         warmed up and ready for a little more collection, pick up your 
         reins and assume a steady, even, yet light contact.  No half halts...
         NO NOTHING.  Keep your hands fairly close together and in front of
         you (don't forget to stretch up and tall yourself...position is
         important).  If your horse is flipping his/her head and fussing in
         general, you are probably not moving him/her forward enough.  
    
         When in doubt, add more leg.
    
      3. Patience is a virtue.  It won't happen right away, but if you keep
         your horse forward and don't fuss with your hands your horse should
         eventually put him/herself on the bit.
    
      The best imagery I can come up with is to think of your horses' hind
      end as the engine.  Ignore what your horse is doing in front of you
      and concentrate on using your leg.  The feeling you should have is
      that you are driving your horse from behind with your leg, right into
      your hands.  If your horse feels too heavy, (hanging on your hand)
      you need more leg.  
    
      You are using a flash noseband, which is appropriate.  Make sure it 
      is just tight enough so that your horse can't get his/her mouth open.
      Any kind of snaffle should be sufficient.  I like to use the fat hollow-
      mouth kinds.
                             
      Whew!  This got a bit long winded, but it's such a hard thing to 
      describe.  I would be very interested in hearing techniques other
      folks use.  
    
      Simone
    

    A french link snaffle is a very mild bit.  It's even milder than
    the traditional single-joint snaffle, because when the reins are
    pulled, there is no joint to push against the roof of the horse's
    mouth.
    
    -ellie

Lynda,

You mentioned your horse had been used as a school horse.  Many
school horses learn survival tactics, one of which is to ignore the
rider.  With so many (past) riders giving inconsistent aids, having
no logical rhyme or reason in their timing, the horse may have learned
the riders weren't worth listening to.

If you're not getting help already, my suggestion is to get some regular 
coaching.  Any written or verbal riding suggestions are only useful when 
they supplement regular coaching. With coaching, you can learn the feel and 
timing of when and how to apply various aids.  Each horse is different, and 
each horse can change from moment to moment.  Unless we have full motion video
in our notes conference (or better yet virtual reality) we're stuck with 
offering suggestions with blindfolds on.

Melinda

    Amen, Melinda! Although the advice that has been offered here is good
    and sound, it is nearly impossible to get "the solution" without seeing 
    the horse and rider together.
    
    However, patience on the rider's part is almost as important as good
    coaching. I remember at one of van Schaik's clinics a woman showed up
    with a very handsome athletic young horse(I think he was just 4) that
    she wanted to learn dressage on. She was disappointed when at the end
    of 3 DAYS, he wasn't going as well as Jan's mare that she had been
    working for 3 YEARS!
    
    
    

    The exercise that helped me the most, and I've seen my instructor
    use it on others also, is to ride with side reins.
    
    This exercise probably needs some kind of "THESE PEOPLE OF PROFESSIONALS
    AND YOU SHOULD NOT DO THIS AT HOME" qualifier.  Wel'l see what kind
    of reaction I get here.  I wouldn't do this without an instructor but
    an ex-school horse is a prime candidate.

    It's like having training wheels to steady your hands.  After a short
    time you have the "feel" for steady hands.  That last 5% of steadiness
    is what counts.

    Martingales are a definite no-no.  They effectively (even if not
    literally) hold the horses head down.  Over time you end up with a
    horse with muscles under this neck instead of on his topline.
    
    Bill

    Against all the advice I was given I tried my horse in an eggbut 
    snaffle that I borrowed from a friend, it was a breakthrough as she 
    actually started to listen to me!!!!
    
    Thanks anyway
    
    Lynda
    
    Ill keep you informed of our progress.