Conference noted::equitation

    What we put up for the mares and foals was post and board, three
    high, with total fence height about 5 1/2 to 6 feet high.  On the
    inside we put wire fencing, keystone to be exact, from the top board
    down to the ground.  It may sound like overkill.  But this way you
    have the "safety" of the board as well as the looks and the keystone
    wire keeps little legs and bodies on their side of the fence as
    we have been known to roll under board fences.
    
    The post and board as far as cost goes I really don't remember as
    we bought it about three years ago and it was rough lumber.  I will
    ask my husband about that one.
    The wire came in 100 foot rolls, 5' high for about $125/roll.
    
    What you end up with is really an all purpose paddock that you can
    add hot wire to if someone starts to crib.
    
    Good luck...
    

    I have a question, what size are the square in the fencing?  I've
    always been afraid to put goat type fencing (I believe the squares
    in that fencing are 8"x8") because of the worry of them rolling
    and getting there hoof caught or some such horsey murphy's law.
    
    I really like the idea of running the fence on the inside I just
    would need the reassurance of the squares being small enough for
    them not to get caught.
    
    We have a board fence paddock with a hot wire run on the top, but
    they still lean thru the first and second board to get to the greener
    grass on the other side of the fence.
    
    Any information would be greatly appreciated.
    
    Loran
    

    
    Consider the following:
    
    	Last year I had a similiar situation- with a new foal on the
    way and a desperate need for a safe paddock. I knew what fence 
    (stud rail) to use because I had bought it the previous fall.
    We had the following problems:
    
    1. The foal was born before the fence was up and we had to turn
       him out in a paddock with wire fencing. Although the wire was
       spaced well for horses (4x6inches) the foal managed to roll into
       it a couple of time and get his legs caught up...fortunate for
       us that he did not struggle but just waited for us to come release
       him.
    
    2. We had to wait for the ground to thaw before we could dig holes
       for fence posts. 
    
    3. It's cheaper to do it yourself...but it can take longer than
       expected to put up a paddock. 
    
    4. Understanding how to install the material was a stumbling block
       for us. The distributor told us that for a paddock we could go
       around corners. Well, the vinyl ripples when the wire going
       through it is tightened. It is nearly impossible to pull it 
       around the corners to correct the problem. We bought enough
       to do pasture this year and will not be going around any corners.
       It is very time-consuming to have installation problems or
       wait for clamps,vices,etc. and other material orders to be
       delivered. 
    
    5. The weather when terrible can delay almost any project.
                      
    
    In summary, it may take longer to do it yourself...but I recommend
    learning how because you can save money by doing your own pastures
    too. It's easier to learn on a smaller project such as a paddock.
    Our stud rail paddock is beautiful. By using 30 yr. pressure treated
    lumber for posts and vinyl fencing we ended up with a foal safe, 
    maintenance free, and great-looking fence for our paddock. We had
    fence people in to give us estimates for doing our paddock area
    and pasture and they were outrageous!
    
    			Best Regards, 
    
    				Nancy
    

    We just built our paddock this past Fall and used Key Stone
    fencing (which is a company name, by the way, it is also known as
    horse fencing).
    
    The squares are 2"X4" and it works out great.  It is very sturdy.
    We also put a strand of solar powered electric fencing on the top.
    
    I've seen a horse put his hoof through an 8"X8" fencing at a place
    I boarded once.  It sure was a messy sight and he was laid up for  
    several months afterwards.
           
    
    
    

    Where can you get the Key Stone fencing?  Would a place like UCF
    or Agway have it?  I would really like to get it up and in place
    before the summer gets here and I have to deal with rubbed out manes.
    The grass is always greener on the other side no matter what!
    
    That was my fear since my horses are alone all day I really didn't
    want to come home to see that one of them had gotten stuck in the
    morning and no one had been there to get him out.
    
    Thank you for the information...
    
    Lorna
    

    Yes. I got mine at Agway.  
    
    Sue
    

    KeyStone may also make a diamond mesh fence.  The openings are diamond
    shape and it seems to be made in a continuous strand.  I don't think
    there are any clipped edges to worry about.  The openings are supposed
    to be designed especially for foals -- holes are too small for little
    hooves.  
    
    I've seen diamond mesh fence put up with wood posts and a top rail.
     Looks great, especially for pastures/paddocks away from the front
    of the house.  I'd put it up about 6-8" above the ground so I could
    mow under it.
    
    I read in EQUUS about 5 years ago that fence for mares/foals should
    be 4-board, 4' high.  For a stallion, 5 board, 5' high.  Pastures
    could be 3 board, about horse chest high.  The bottom board for
    foal fence should be LESS than 12" from the ground; foals can
    roll under anything higher.
    
Sometimes you can find someone who will put up your fence if you buy
    the lumber ahead of time.  They usually prefer 16' boards, which
    are more expensive than 8', but infinitely easier  and faster to
    deal with.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Merrie

    I have been calling around to get some prices on this fencing.
    Agway was the cheapest I have found so far, the 48" 1 x 2 mesh
    in 100 foot rolls costs about $120.00 for the roll.  the place
    I am looking to fence in is about 250 ft, and this isn't including
    putting in the posts!  I have someone from a company that installs
    fence coming over this afternoon to give me an estimate.  When I
    look at in from a dollars and cents perspective it seems expensive,
    but when I consider the time and money that I have and will be
    putting into this foal, its worth it!

    Your estimate will be less if you supply the materials. The estimate
    I recieved for my paddock when the holes had already been dug and
    we had the posts already bought was $480.00. To some people this
    was reasonable for a 100X50 foot paddock. If you ask...there are
    people who will some in and dig the holes for your post and you
    can install the fence. 24-48 hrs to cement the corner posts and
    a weekend or two to put the fence up yourselves. By the way...paddock
    areas of this size only needs a 4 foot gate. 
    
    If you do not put a top rail on your fence...the horses will push
    the wire down from leaning on it and it won't look good. I suggest
    that top rail!
    
    			Hope this helps.......Nancy
     

    The cost of our three rail about 5 to 6 foot high when finished...
    2 to 3 feet in the ground was $11.00/8 foot section...rough cut
    lumber with 20 year preserved posts.  Now remember that was the
    price about 3 years ago.
    
    Good luck
    

    Thats a really good price for fencing, I had someone give me an
    estimate on friday, and it was about $6.00 per foot for 3-rail.
    I got the name of another person who does fencing and is supposed
    to be pretty reasonable so I'll try him next!  Thanks.

    Well its finally time to put the fence in!  I have someone coming
    over on saturday to dig the holes and I've ordered the wire.  Now
    I have a question on the posts that go in the ground.  Pressure
    treated posts are treated with arsenic.  I found that out when I
    was considering putting a wooden floor in my barn, I used cement
    instead as the arsenic can be absorbed through the skin when they
    are laying down.  Has anyone else recently put this type of fence
    in?  Did you use pressure treated posts?  I also found a place that
    sells landscape ties that are dipped in black oil instead of pressure
    treating for about half the price.  Supposedly they last too.  Any
    comments?

    I used pressure treated poles in my barn and the horses don't touch
    them. They tasted them once and decided to leave them alone. I don't
    think you will have a problem with a fence as the wire should be
    attached to the horse side of the fence making it difficult for
    them to get to even if they wanted to. I understand that the amount
    of arsenic used is very small so a horse would have to eat quite
    a lot of it to get sick.
    
    Sandy
    

    RE: .12
    
    I wouldn't worry about the pressure treated lumber.  The chemicals
    supposedly don't leach into the soil.  There must be something to
    that claim, because the material can be used for boat docks, immersed
    in water, and the recommended method for disposal of scrap pieces
    is to bury them.  There's lots of information on PT lumber in
    JOET::HOME_WORK.
    
    Don't waste your money on the oil-dipped landscape timbers - they
    don't last.

    We're expecting a foal in about a month (our first, and the mare's
    first, too), and I'm wondering about the fence.  We have a pasture
    area with a simple 2-strand electric fence right now.  When the
    foal comes, will we need a more substantial fence?  I've heard opinions
    both ways, i.e., "you need fine wire mesh so the foal won't crawl
    out", and "electric fence is fine, the foal with stay with the mother".
    
    Any experience in this area?

    We are also expecting a foal in a month.  The paddock I have now
    has always been 2 strands of electric fence, and everyone I have
    asked has suggested a much more substantial fence.  I have bought
    all the materials for putting up 2" x 4" x 48" mesh.  The area I
    am planning to fence is about 200 feet and I have hired a person
    with an auger to come dig the holes and help put the fence up. 
    I figure it will run me somewhere around $600, but in my opinion
    its much better safe than sorry.  The vets I know strongly suggest
    against the use of electric wire with a foal, because if they run
    into it and get zapped they will probably run into the fence in
    another place in their frenzy to get away and either get out or
    even worse, get hung up in the wire.  Also the fence should be less
    than 12" off the ground so they can't roll under.  This is just
    my opinion, maybe some of the more experienced "parents" can add
    some more.

    I from out west and i have never heard of fencing in horses in general
    with barbed or any mesh material because of scarring.I know that
    it is done out here,but i frown upon it.In answer to your question,i
    have had the pleasure of many foals and what worked is the 12" from
    the ground as you mentioned..but i used 2 x 4's wrapped in rubber
    that is tainted with pepper or some herb to keep the mare from chewing
    on it.TYhis rubber has many advantages to it..one being if the foal
    or mare were to fall or run into it..there would be less hit involved,
    and the second is that it is a very safe for all involved when dealing
    with a mare and her foal.I would never consider electric fences
    at all fro the previous reason given.
    
    good luck..it's a real joy to witness this event by the way
    
    wade

    
    
    We have had very good success with our foals and electric fencing
    but I have to admit that we spend extra time with each foal 'teaching'
    them what it is all about.  In a few cases that has been accomplished
    by keeping the foal on a soft rope and 'allowing' them to touch
    the fence and subsequently learn for themselves.  In other cases
    we have let the foal loose with their mom (and some stay close to
    mom and some get independent VERY early in life and wander off
    perfectly happy to be by themselves).  When we let them loose we
    make sure that there is someone to watch each fence line - in other
    words, the foal (should they get into trouble - [where for us trouble
    = rolling under the fence and realizing mom was on the wrong side])
    is allowed to 'test' the situation out for themselves.
    
    They have good eyesight - and learn very fast those first few days.
    I really feel that once they learn what the fence is all about you
    have a safe situation.  So, we stay with them the first couple of
    times out, then hang around (close by enough to hear if anything
    suspecious is happening) - I do chores in the barn or clean buckets
    then gradually I find myself in the house and only needing to look
    out the back door once in a while to check.  Each step of this process
    IS totally dependant upon the foal actually touching the fence and
    REALLY learning what it does.. once that happens you're home free.
    
    Things to remember are - that your fence is fully charged and giving
    a good jolt (before you put the mare and foal out) - that you have
    enough hands (helpers) around just in case anyone (mare or foal)
    need attention - and that you've got the time necessary to spend...
    
    NOW _ Truth _ I always wished I had board fences for my foals first
    endevors outside - but then they'd never learn about the electric
    and my experience has been that older horses are more difficult
    to teach about electric fence.  So I guess it all has worked out
    for the better for us.
    
    Best of days to you with your new foal - holly

    
    RE: .3 - does anyone know why my response got all garbled?  I 
    entered it normally... found it hard to read the lines they went
    by so fast!!
    
    help - h

    Hi Holly,
    
    I think your suggestions are great, and when I first got the mare
    I was intending on leaving the electric fence up even for the foal.
    My mare had never been in electric fencing and all she had to do
    was touch it once and she never went near it again.  The only part
    that makes me nervous is that no one is home for 4 or 5 hours during
    the day so if the foal did get hung up it could be badly injured
    by the time someone found it.  

    I have a wooden paddock for my foal, but also have an electric fence
    around my field.  I am also concerned about the electric fence,
    however from more a standpoint of him getting loose, than getting
    hurt.  
    
    I realize there are different guages of wire.  I previously had
    the finer wire, but have gone to a heavier one.  My gelding did
    run through the wire when it wasn't on, and did manage to take half
    the fence down, but did not really get tangled.  I can break either
    wire with my hands.  But, like I said, the foal is currently in
    the paddock.

    My farm has only electric fence and I have had to introduce an older
    mare and at one point a 9 mo. filly to the fence. Before putting
    either one in the fence I hung streamers every 3 feet on the wire
    the whole way around so it was very easy to see the fence. We used
    strips 1 inch wide cut from white plastic garbage bags. Then we
    lead the horse around the fence to show it to them. For the first
    week do not leave them unattended in the fence. This worked very
    well with no damage to the horse or the fence. While watching if
    they were headed towards the fence too fast I holler "WHOA" at about
    ten feet to go. It not only teaches them about the fence but they
    know you really mean it when you say whoa!!
    Sandy
    

    
    re .5...
    
    I too have to leave my horses at home 'alone' for extended hours
    all the time - that's a piece of why this topic is near and dear
    to me.  Besides having to work 8+ hours a day I have a 35 minute
    one way....  Anyway, I understand your nervousness - and can only
    say from my own experience that I don't get UNnervous until all
    the horses at home are fence safe.  Having a neighbor who is willing
    to stop by your place in the middle of the day is nice too if one
    is so lucky.  I've had a friend do that for me when I've had little
    ones in the pasture (or mares close to foaling times)-just for my
    own relief.  No phone call to me at work means everything is okee
    dokee...
    
    I also HATE to have to keep my horses in unless it is REALLY bad
    weather, so they spend an average of 10hours per day outside over
    the 365 days of the year - in summer some of them stay out all the
    time - but minimum they're out half days.
    
    knock on wood - I've had good fortune - smart/savvy horses who
    respect the fence - and a husband who is willing to help me really
    keep the fences in tip top shape all year round.
    
    smiles - holly

    First of all, thanks for all the responses so far. I hesitated putting
    in this reply, because I don't want to stop the flood of information,
    so please keep it coming!
    
    I think we'll go with the electric fence, as time is running short
    and it's the quickest thing to put up.  A few more questions...
    
    	How big should I make the paddock for mare & foal?  Currently,
    	all the horses roam freely on about 2 1/2 acres of pasture.
    	I want to section off a much smaller area for mare & foal, but
	don't know how small/big to make it. 
    
 	What do you think about this:  3 strands, at 1', 2' and 3' off
	the ground?  Our biggest fear is that the foal might get out,
	and then the mare will freak.  She would have no trouble breaking
    	the electric wire, if she wanted to, but has great respect for the
	fence now.  [the only animal that doesn't respect the fence
	is a goat that we got a couple of months ago, despite being zapped
	many times.]
    
       	RE: streamers on the fence.  Great idea - not only for the horses,
	but also for dirt bikers or kids that might wander into the area.
    	We did that, with orange surverying flags, but have a problem.
    	The wind tends to blow the flags along the wire, so they all
	bunch up at each post/tree.  Then, when it rains, they sometimes
	get wet enough to short out the fence.  How do you keep them
	in place?  We tied the streamers as tightly as possible, but,
	they're plastic, and they loosen after a while and just slide down
	the wire.
    
    Thanks again, keep up the advice, and watch this file for a birth
    announcement in about a month (no sooner, I hope!).
    
    /Don

    DON,
    
    The plastic garbage bags are thin enough they tie very tightly and
    don't walk along the fence. I have used more durable streamers and
    found them working loose just as you did. The bag streamers die
    after about a year from UV light but you can't beat the price. I
    have never had a problem with them shorting the fence no matter
    how wet they get.
    Sandy
    

    There is alos another type of fencing which is an orange and black
    thin nylon type material and also a thin wire (like pierced-earring
    size) and they are all twisted together. I don't know much about
    it except that it seems to be more visible, less apt to short and
    is also more pliable than metal electric fencing...
    
    Good luck!
    
    Linda
    

    I put my week old foal and mare out in my 4 acre pasture with electric
    fence this weekend.  At first, I left the fence off, wrongly assuming
    Mom would keep him close to her.  He ran through two strands (one
    heavy guage, one lighter) twice.  Neither time did he get hurt and
    he stopped two feet outside the fence and then came back in.  I
    was surprised to see Mom stop at the fence line even after he went
    through.  
    
    I turned the fence on, and he quickly touched it and bolted off
    running around the field.  He stopped and touched it on another
    side (it is well marked with streamers about every 3 feet) and then
    galloped full speed right through the other side.  Now that he has
    touched it three times, he comes to a sliding stop just as he gets
    to it.
    
    I was surprised that the mare did not try to teach him about the
    fence, but watched as he ran through it.  I must add that he is
    extremely independent and I think she has gotten tired of trying
    to keep up with him.  She'll stand and watch him run until he goes
    about 200' from her, then she'll catch up to him.
    

    Now that creosote is off the market, what are people using to treat
    lumber?  When we built our barn 11 years ago, we creosoted the whole
    thing.  Now it is in desperate need of another paint job and I want
    to use something that is safe for the horses but will also protect
    the wood.  Any suggestions?  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Linda
    

    Anyone interested in a follow-up on this?  We let mom & foal out
    for the first time last night, under close supervision.  The foal
    touched the fence a couple of times out in the pasture, and ran
    away from it.  So far so good.
    
    Then we tried to get them back in the barn.  Problems.  The mare
    went into the barn, but Poco (foal) wouldn't go in with her.  Then
    Poco touched the fence right outside the barn, and panicked, and
    ran right thru the fence, back into the pasture.  Then the mare
    followed suit and ran right after her.  This whole cycle repeated
    about 3 or 4 times.  Then, on the last try (it was dark by this
    time), Poco got tangled in the wire, then broke out.  We got the
    mare locked in the barn, but she was kicking and jumping and trying
    to get out after her baby.  We finally got Poco calmed down, got
    a rope around her, and brought her back in.  Too much excitement
    for one night.
    
    So, the electric fence obviously isn't good enough, at least not
    for now.  I'm thinking of either putting up wire mesh fencing, or
    a board fence between metal fence posts.  I've seen a fence like
    that (boards between green U-channel posts), and it looks pretty
    good.
    
    Any comments on these two options, or any other ideas?   Any guess
    as to the cost of materials for either of these?

    
    If you value your horses, lose the metal fence posts ("T"-posts). 
    Horses do a good job spearing themselves on metal posts--I almost lost
    a foal before I learned.  
    
    The situation was similar to yours.  Foal hit the electric, ran through
    the fence.  Mare went after.  Foal ran back through the fence--right
    into the t-post.  The T-post bent and went through the chest.  
    
    The electric fence is hard to see.  T-posts are also hard to see.
    

    
    RE:.13  Sounds like you made out real well in the pasture and that
    the foal learned to yield to the fence. That the problems happened
    after you started to bring them in.... and assumed that the foal
    would follow its mother.  Some do, some don't.  We never expect
    the foals to follow their mothers, so their first leading lessons
    are from the pasture to the barn - and it always requires two people
    one handling each animal.  
    
    Electric does work for me... and it does require some extra effort
    on our part to teach the babies to respect it.  A frantic foal and
    an equally frantic mother don't care what's in the way, they'll
    find a way thru/over/under/around it for sure....................
    
    We just have to remember what it is that we've subjected them to
    and what they're reacting to.