Conference noted::equitation

    No, I'm in the UK.
    
    He's turned out with between eight and ten other horses, all of
    whom are OK.
    
    But the vet does think it was possibly something he ate.  However,
    liver damage is apparently cumulative, so it could have been something
    he ate ages ago.
    

    
    See note 699.*; could this be the problem?
    
    -John

    I (and the pony) are in the UK, and I have never heard of Alsike
    Clover either here, either poisoning horses or existing at all.
    
    But it is possible that it is caused by something he has eaten over
    a period of time, or indeed a long time ago.
    
    Helen.

Helen,

Do you have a weed called ragwort in the UK?  In all the research I have done
on poisonous plants and the alsike clover, I have found many articles that
say ragwort is the most common cause of liver damage in horses. I do not
know what is looks like though, and understand there are many varieties of
it.  Bracken Ferns, in large quantities, can also cause liver damage.

What type of grasses is the pony pastured on?

My vets have said you can tell how recent the damage is by which enzymes in
the liver function test are elevated.  It can take months for these
elevations to drop, but if the source of the toxin is removed, they should
drop.  Certain types of liver damage can also be assisted by giving high
doses of vitamin B, but I would check this with the vet before you gave it.
I believe the poisoning caused by Bracken fern is one type of poisoning that
vitamin B can help.

What symptoms did the pony show that made you have him checked?

I hope your pony will be alright.

Kathy

Helen,

I forgot to add that the liver is about the only organ that can regenerate
itself.  I have been told by vets that the liver can be between 50 - 70%
damaged and recover.

It is only in severe cases that the prognosis wouldn't be good.  Please 
don't be discouraged if after only a week you do not see improvement in
the blood tests - it can take months.

D L Methionine is an amino acid which is also used to help repair the liver 
(as well as the laminae  in the hoof).  Both my horses with liver damage are 
on this, as well as the B vitamins, and will be for probably 6 months.

Are your horses eyes yellow?  Does his nervous system appear to be affected,
i.e. does he stagger, look like he will fall down, or press his head hard
against solid objects?  My horse also foundered as a result of the liver
damage.


Best of luck,
Kathy

    Kathy,
    
    Thank you so much for your replies, particularly your comment about
    the liver regenerating, which I did not know.  All the books I have
    read have been pessimistic, to say the least.
    
    You're right about ragwort in the UK causing liver damage, but it's
    not ragwort poisoning; the stables where I keep Robbie are very
    careful about ragwort, and remove it as soon as it appears.  Also,
    horses won't normally eat it if they have sufficient grass (which
    Robbie has) as it tastes bitter.
    
    Robbie has been living out with about ten other horses (all of whom
    are OK).  The symptoms came on very suddenly last Tuesday (I rode
    him a week ago last Sunday, and he was apparently fine then).  He
    appeared to be lame in front, very stiff behind, unwilling to move,
    slightly colicky, and generally very miserable.  The vet gave him
    a painkiller, and he seemed better the next day, but still not right.
    
    He has been living in, and having a vitamin tonic with his feed
    (not sure quite what's in it, I will check).  I've been taking him
    out for about an hour every day on a long lead, so he can graze
    where I can see exactly what he's eating, to stop him getting too
    bored.
    
    He has been very stiff behind, unwilling to move his back legs much,
    or to turn sharply.  This has seemed better the last couple of days,
    and he has been walking much better, and more willingly.  The other
    main system is that he looks bloated around his quarters and back
    legs, as if he is retaining fluid.  Apart from that he was yawning
    a lot at first (which I read is a symptom of liver damage), but
    that seems to have stopped, and he has been generally quiet and
    not himself.  
    
    He seems to tire easily; when I take him out for grass he eats for
    an hour or so, then says "OK, I'm tired now, can I go back to my
    stable please".  This is not like Robbie, who is a very greedy (and
    plump!) pony, who normally hates living in.
    
    I have noticed he is drinking a lot, which I suppose is a good thing.
    He is eating normally, and his digestive system appears to be working
    OK.
    
    Last night, he seemed brighter, and was trying to pull things out
    of my pockets etc. as he usually does.
    
    The vet thought it was caused by something he ate, either recently
    or a long time ago, and I have thought and thought what he could
    have eaten that he shouldn't.  All I can come up with is that one
    night nearly two weeks before he became ill, one of the kids who
    rides at the stables left the field gate open, and all the ponies
    got out.  I don't know how long it was before he was caught, but
    it is possible he got something then.
    
    Another vet is coming to see him tonight, so I can get a second
    opinion (not that I really doubt the first vet, but I want to be
    absolutely sure that I have done everything possible).
    
    As you know, one gets absolutely paranoid, and sees every little
    thing as a symptom, so that when he had an itchy nose last night,
    and rubbed it on his knee, I was worrying about that too.
    
    Thank you for your good wishes.  I hope your two horses get better;
    I was very sorry when I read your original note.
    
    Helen.

Helen,

Swelling of the chest, abdomen and legs can accompany liver damage, as
does colic, yawning, photosensitization (which is usually after prolonged
grazing on a poisonous plant) and founder (laminitis).

I certainly understand how you can feel paranoid now; I am the same way myself.
    
I'll check my books tonight and see what other types of plants could have
caused liver damage.  If I come up with any other than I have already listed,
I'll post them here tomorrow.  I know I wanted to know what poisoned my
horses so I could prevent it from happening again.


Regaerds,
Kathy    

    Kathy,
    
    Thanks for your reply.  I'll let you know what the second vet says
    tonight.
    
    Have your horses lost their appetites?  Robbie is still eating well,
    and certainly hasn't lost weight - several of the books I looked
    at said weight loss was one of the first signs of liver damage.
    
    Regards,
    
    Helen.

    Well, the second vet saw Robbie last night, and says it's not liver
    damage after all!!  He examined Robbie very thoroughly, took another
    blood test, and said that, subject to the result of the blood test,
    he thinks it was azoturia, coupled with some thickening of the gut,
    which is apparently working too fast.  He gave Robbie an enormous
    injection of something (I suppose all horse injections are enormous)
    to slow the gut action down.  
    
    If the second blood test confirms his opinion, treatment will be
    a starvation diet, coupled with a lot of work, to get his weight
    down (Robbie is seriously overweight), and careful attention to
    worming.
    
    As you can imagine, I am very relieved.
    
    By the way, the first vet is a general practice all animals vet,
    the second vet works only with horses.  The partner in the practice
    is one of the best horse vets in the country, and is currently in
    Seoul looking after the Olympic horses.
    
    Helen

    
    
    A common type of grass in the Western United States known as kleingrass
    could cause liver disease in graxing horses, according to research at
    Texas A & M University.  The conclusion, as reported in the July issue
    of Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine's ANIMAL HEALTH
    NEWSLETTER, resulted from two studies.
    
    In the first study, over a two-year-period at Texas A & M, Dr. G. W.
    Webb and colleagues studied yearlings grazing kleingrass-- a tufted,
    perennial grass introduced in 1952 as feed for sheep.  The grass has
    now spread to more than 500,000 hectares; a third of the total hectares
    of improved pasture in Texas.  Cattle can do well on kleingrass, but
    the forage might cause photosensitization (liver disease) in sheep.
    
    the researchers determined that yearling horses grazing kleingrass
    suffered weight loss--with significantly lower heart girth, rump fat,
    and visual coordination scores-- than yearlings grazed on Bermuda
    grass.  the platability of kleingrass to horses also was considered
    lower than Bermuda grass, resulting in a reduced intake and
    contributing to weight loss.  Mineral analysis of kleingrass failed to
    reveal any reason the grass would not be acceptable to the yearlings.
    
    In a second study at Texas A & M, Dr. Janice L. Cornick and her
    associates studied histories of horses with weight loss, lack of
    appetite, and liver disease and a history of eating klein grass.  Their
    conclusion was that as far as the horses were concerned, the kleingrass
    was responsible for the liver disease.  The liver disease was similar
    to that found in sheep grazing kleingrass, particularly during wet
    climatic conditions.
    
    In Texas, the liver disease appears more frequently during the hot, wet
    months of June-October, when the grass is growing rapidly.  The study
    concluded that if kleingrass is available to grazing horses, it should
    be considered a causal factor if horses show signs of liver disease.
    
    The Blood Horse, July 6, 1991.
    
    
    P.S. A hectare is equal to 10,000 square meters or 2.477 acres.