Conference noted::equitation

    Hi Jan,
    
    I have never heard of Grease Heel but my horse likes to rub her
    neck a lot and I use a product by the name of UTER BLAM. I find
    it to work very well and this product numes a bit so the horse is
    not so hard to keep still after I get a touch of it onto her. It
    is not harmful. I have used it on myself. (Iron burns) 
    
    It is greasey so rub it in as much as you can to avoid dirt build
    up. This can be found at most Tack Shops or your local Drug Store.
    
    -D-

    Is Grease Heel what we call Mud Fever in the UK?  (A sort of eczema
    like condition which some horses get from having wet muddy legs
    - the mud gets into the skin, and an infection sets up.)  If it
    is, I believe the horse is always susceptible to it - you have to
    be careful not to brush their legs when wet, etc.  

    I'm not sure, but I would think that applying a wet or oily
    medication would just draw the dirt to the area that needs to
    get cleaned up and simply magnify the problem.  Have you thought
    of using Furasin spray?  My vet recommends that for places that
    have to get dried up to heal.
    
    Gwen
    

    
    Perhaps Vit E would help? I started using it on all the trouble
    spots after a student used it on her ponys saddle sore. It was in
    such a place that it wouldn't heal for anything. Two weeks of Vitamin
    E daily, it was gone. There is no trace of it anywhere. The barn
    that the pony was at before let it go for months, it just kept getting
    re-opened and raw. 
    
    Marianne
    

    
    re: .2
    
    it does sound very similar.  the vet described it very like
    athletes foot but with an infection.  i believe the fulvasin
    is an anti-fungal drying agent with a slight pain killer (it
    makes my finger tips numb when i apply it and it has calmed
    the horse down considerable over the weeks of treatment).
    
    i've moved him out of the pasture and into a pen and that
    helped considerably.  however, its still lingering and there
    are a few scabs left.  someone here suggested wrapping the
    area, but the vet insisted that it would get better faster
    if i didnt close up the area.  he said the object is to
    dry it up hence the desitin.
    
    one thing i wondering is if i should alternate something to
    loosen the scabs with something to dry the area (desitin), but
    never having treated this type of thing before (i've only owned
    this horse 1 month and its my first horse) i'm a little paranoid.
    
    also, i keep hearing rumors of a miracle cure and was hoping
    that someone out there had heard it also.  i think it was something
    like bacon grease.........
    
    as for the vitamin E, since it works so well for me i dont
    see why it wont work on the horse.  maybe i'll give that a try.
    
    thanks,
    
    jan
    

    
    I have no idea if this will help but the Aloe plant is supposed to 
    have excellent healing powers.  I happen to have one growing in my
    kitchen for use as ahealing product.  I've never tried it on the horse.
    
    Basically you cut a leaf and spread the inner goo on the area.
    
    	Dani
    

    
    
    I don't think that the bacon grease would be a good idea as the
    salt in it would cause the horse a lot of pain.  I think the best
    thing to do is to keep him where the footing is dry and use the
    fulsolvin and desitin.  The only reason to bandage his foot is if
    he has a problem with getting to much dirt in that area.  The aloe
    is a good idea as well.  Some of the off the shelf products that
    I have been seeing have started to include aloe in them for healing.
    
    The only other thing I can think of is getting an iodine based surgical
    scrub and use that on him.  These types of scrubs are good for most
    kinds of bacterial and fungus type skin problems as they kill all
    of those nasty bugs.  They can be harsh and sting so you have to
    watch what you get.  The one I have says that it is non-irritating
    and non-staining.  I haven't had a pain reation from my mare when
    I use it.  I got it from the Rockford Vet Wholesale catalog and
    it wasn't very expensive.  If you want to try this and can't find
    any there let me know and I will get you some and mail it.
    
    
    Pat 

    
    just thought i'd check in and let you guys know the results of
    treating the grease heel/scratches.
    
    after using the DESITIN, the scabs really softened up.  now
    the area is doing well and the vet says i shouldnt have a 
    recurring problem.  The important thing in this treatment is
    to keep the area dry and use a drying/anti-fungal medication.
    
    one of the other ladies in my barn treated this ailment and suggested
    sugar-dine (mixture of sugar and betadine scrub) works wonders.
    i didnt try this because i learned of it after the problem was almost
    cleared up.  however, she swears by it and claims there is no
    need to scrub the area there-by upsetting the animal.
    
    hope no-one else has to treat this problem since it was a
    real pain in the posterior portion.
    
    thanks again for all the suggestions.  
    
    jan
    

    Every year during the spring and winter months, my horse gets
    scratches (a mild form of grease heel).  Despite repeated treatments
    this stuff hangs on for weeks.  Right now I am washing his pasturns
    every other night with Equitain Shampoo (an antifungal, antibacterial
    shampoo that you get through your vet).  After washing I pour some on
    straight and leave it.  The shampoo formula will shield the skin for a
    day or so.  On the off days, I medicate the crusty scabs with a special
    ointment.  The pasturns are sore, and the horse is understandable
    reluctant to hand me his feet on a nightly basis.  He squirms and
    wiggles and is generally unhappy.  I counteract this by giving him a
    supply of carrots after each night, the result- he is a cooperative, but
    unenthusiastic patient.
    
    Does anyone else suffer from this scourage.  My horse is the only one
    who suffers from this in the whole barn.  He is an arabian (the only
    one at the barn).  Only his white legs get this, the black leg is
    always clear.  I hate this stuff, and frankly it makes him a high
    maintenance horse, I can't miss a single day.  When it clears up, I
    have to make sure his legs are clean and dry every night.  If I miss a
    few days, blammo, it comes back.
    
    Anyone have any preventative potion that they use, or am I doomed to
    spend my nights with my hands in soapy water ;-)
    
    stephanie
    

    Can you describe what "scratches" is.  My mare get something strange on
    her rear, above her tail and I'm always washing etc.  I've tried
    several vets, but it's not a parasite, or a fungus and I can't figure
    out what it is.  She doesn't get sores but her hair gets very stiff and
    she ends up losing large patches of skin and hair.  It's not "rain rot"
    and I suspected.  Maybe it's scratches!!!!
    
    Caryl

    Cayrl,
    
    Scratches occurs behind the pastern.  They are crusty, greyish patches.
    When you peel off the scabs they can sometimes bleed a little, it is 
    also known as mud fever.  I would try the Equitain Shampoo.  It is 
    advertised in Equus. I called the company and asked them about the 
    product, and they sent me a whole bottle free.  It really worked well.  
    
    Kiirja,
    
    Ellen Singer from Mass Equine gave me an ointment that I think has
    coritsone in it.  I just found it last weekend.  I have been using that
    too, instead of the Navasone (sp?) and it appears to be working very
    well.  The patches are smaller and less sore.  I will recheck the
    label.
    
    It appears that every spring and winter I will be washing feet.
    
    stephanie
    

    Here is another good solution. Try using an athelete's foot
    anti-fungal. I use both the spray and the ointment. (Micatin) The key
    to treating
    this fungus is to keep the foot area dry and not wash it. I even go so
    far as to use Noxema cream rather than an antifungal soap and water.
               

    My understanding of this ailment, is that it is caused by something in
    the soil. Once a pasture has the organisim, any horse that has a skin
    type to get it will. One boarding barn in my area that has a big
    problem with this, has had some success fighting it by clipping all the
    horses from the hoof to the knee. They look pretty funny, but it keeps
    them drier and they dry out faster. Dry paddocks are the best
    preventative, though bulldoser costs can add up. For your horse I would
    see if there is a drier turnout you can use, trading with another horse
    that might have tougher skin than an Arab.
    Sandy
    

    Yes, it is something in the soil.  The barn where I am does not
    practice the best manure management.  The pile tends to leach down to
    where the gate is, so it is mushy.  I can get around some of this by
    turining him out via an alternate gate in the morning.  The problem is,
    is that I am not around at night to do the reverse, so in he goes thru
    the mud and mire.  This is the only paddock he has access to.  I am
    moving him, and hopefully, this will allivate the problem. 
    
    Kiirja,  the Gold Bond Powder is great stuff 8-)!!  It might work on
    the mare's tail problem in .1
    
    I suppose I should try to clip in back of his pasterns, but I was
    afraide that taking his socks off would give him a chill, and with no
    hair to keep him dry I was afraide of his getting chapped and cracked
    heels.
    
    If only life were simple, I could get so much done.
    
    stephanie
    

    I had a mare with this problem though not as reoccuring as yours.
    She only had one white sock and that was the only one she got it
    on. I used plain vaseline and put it on every night. It softens
    the scabs so they don't continue the cycle of cracking and rescabbing
    and seems to be a barrier between the dirt and the skin. It seemed to 
    work well for me but this mare only got it one year. 
    After reading a medical article in which testing proofed that anything
    which kills bacteria also kills the newly growing skin I stopped
    globbing on medicines like I used to. I only use them on a new cut
    and then use vaseline after that.
                          
    I hope this helps,
    Sharon

    I'll put in my two cents worth.  Trust me when I say that clipping
    legs will not give a horse a chill.  My horses have white stockings,
    and clipped legs,(for various reasons), and they stand in snow or bare
    ground in -20F and suffer no ill effects - (I do!).  Provided the rest of 
    them is warm!  In fact, while they are not thrilled at standing in snow, 
    it can do their legs good. Any colder than this they still go out provided
    there is no excessive wind - we have to watch their ears.  Some - not mine
    - stay out all winter, usually these are not clipped.

    While this climate is not really damp, I have lived in areas where it
    is.  I found that clipping legs or leaving them, if they are VERY
    hairy, is easist.  On clean clipped legs, if it was very wet or muddy, I
    would either use Vaseline or real lanolin to keep the moisture away from the
    skin.  It was very messy - but I could live with it - as the heels very
    rarely cracked or got scratches.  On the very hairy legs, such as some
    ponies, we had a fell/welsh and a couple of very Thewell hairy types,
    I never clipped, as the mud etc could not get near the heels or legs.

    BTW - we had our first big dump of snow last week (1 foot) and it went 
    down to -2F (-22C) - I'm seriously thinking about hibernating already -
    whoever told me many years ago that it cannot snow much below freezing
    or when the humidity was only 60% - was not speaking the truth!
    

    
    We have two white Appys who have never had the problem in the three
    years we had them...and this is the muddiest of fall yet.  I might ad
    the grow a very thick winter coat.
    Now on the other side of that, I just aquired an Arab who has led a
    very isolated and babied life up till now. Not any more though.
    She  1: came down with rain rot and had to be washed four times with
    an iodine solution.
    No biggy...but 2:her rear right had a nasty crack from you guessed it...
    mud. I have been hosing it down just before I ride each day, and
    upon turnout, hit it with furizon. It has healed up nicely dispite
    the fact it's still muddy as hell. By the way, she is a bay with no
    white socks... anyways, time for some dozer work!
    
    Dave'
         

    My Bay QH gelding gets what sounds like this on all four
    legs (black front, white coronets back) from right
    below the knees to the pasterns.  It's from moisture,
    the vet said.  I scrub his legs with betadine and a
    clean cloth, rinse thouroughly, and dry with a towell.
    Tiny patches come off with hair.  It goes away
    after treatment, but comes back again often.
    
    Lynne 

    My mare got scratches last summer too.  She had been going out in
    a pasture that had a swampy area in it.  I had to do the betadine
    scrub and a topical ointment with cortisone in it ( I can't remember
    the name of it) and I had to give her bute she was so sore.  
    
    My farrier told me his horses get it and he uses Desitin.  He claims
    it works great.  
    
    I put her in another turn out area and I haven't had a problem since.
    She was the only one out of 30 some odd horses who has gotten it.
    
    Karen

    My Arabian got it for the second time this year and this is the
    only year he had it- he's 16 years old. I just wash it and put Novasone
    w/cortisone on it, and put him in a drier pasture.  My farrier also 
    mentioned that he thinks Desitin is the best remedy (maybe I use the 
    same farrier as note .11 or .12 - Don Jaroz??)
    
    Pat
                                          

when i had my old quarterhorse, Rail, my vet used to call me the
'queen of scratches'.  Rail would get it really bad each spring and it
continued even after i moved him away from the boggy pasture.  A damp stall
seemed to be enough to bring it back.

I, too, used the betadine scrub with a Novason/Fulvason chaser.  However,
it still didnt seem to diminish the scabs.  Rail wasnt exactly pleasant
to deal with when fooling with them either.  The vet suggested, that
after the initial 5 days of treatment with just Novason, alternate each
day with Novason and Desitin.  Eventually, I went with just Desitin and
it cleared up completly.  

Also, I remember a lady at the barn with the boggy pasture that had the
same problem.  She swore by a home remedy that was a packed mixture
of sugar and betadine.  She'd mix it so that it made a sticky, doughy
glop and paste it to the scabs.  My vet screamed in disbelief when
he heard this, but Mamie swore by it.  I did note that both Kahn and
Rojo were free of the pesky problem long before Rail was........I just
never had the guts to try it.

Also, has anyone that's ever had this been totally free of it re-occuring?
I was never able to totally get rid of it.

Jan

    I am surprised at that vet.  Sugar and betadine mixture is probably the
    only thing to use on really bad cases of thrush compounded with
    contracted heels.  My vet, Lori Tempouski has a horse on this treatment
    at our barn.  Every day this mixture is packed into his frogs with
    cotton balls.  The sugar is a drawing agent.  I can see where this
    would apply to healing the scratches.  I have used the Novason for a
    while to as well, but I will say that it is not as effective as the
    Equitain shampoo washings alturnated with the ointment that Ellen
    Singer (a previous Mass Equine vet) gave me to use.  I have also used
    this stuff from Bear-Cat called Heel-it.  It is a clay mixture with
    medication in it.  This works well to.  
    
    When I am late in the mornings, and it is squishy outside, I have in
    desperation applied thick globs of bag balm onto his heels to keep the
    moisture off of his skin.  This also softens the scabs, although it
    makes a gooey mess.
    
    I think I will try the sugar and betadine. Now why didn't I think of
    that before 8-| Hmmmmmm.
    
    stephanie

    If you can get a hold of straight formaldahide, it works great
    on thrush, usually takes only a couple of applications to get
    rid of a bad case!  

    I have a Thoroughbred with four white stockings.
    We have had years with scratches and without.
    I have found that the winters that I allow his feathers
    grow, he has no problems.
    
    Scratches are agravated by moisture. Especially in real cold
    weather. Part of the problem is chapping. It's like the sores
    that you develop when your lips get severely chapped.
    
    If you are going to wash the legs nightly, use a blow dryer
    or SOMETHING to make sure that the legs are dry, right down
    to the skin. Just toweling will not do it. 
    
    The cure for my horses scratches was mentioned in an
    earlier reply, and recommended by my vet. Zinc oxide
    (the ingredient found in DESITIN ointment) will 
    protect the area from moisture, wind, etc.., DRY OUT
    the scratches (which is your key), and it is fairly
    difficult to rub off, so it lasts for several days.
    
    I would avoid wetting the legs as much as possible
    because though you are keeping the area clean, which
    is great, you may be inadvertently leaving moisture
    behind that will make it worse.
    
    It took me about a week to clear up the scratches
    with just the application of the zinc-oxide (no washing!).
    
    One more thing, my horse got scratches in an immaculate
    barn, so I don't know about the manure factor.
    
    Good Luck
                                        

    To update, I have used the Betadine and sugar solution.  The result
    after one application was dramatic.  The scabby, open sores are gone,
    and clean pink skin has grown.  I only used one application of this
    solution last Sunday.  Since that time I did not touch his feet.  Today
    I applied Desitin ointment to protect the skin and keep the problem
    from reoccuring.  It is also important to note that we have been
    blessed with unusually dry ground for the paddock he is in, so his feet
    have been dry.
    
    stephanie
    

    What is the ratio of Betadine & sugar?  This is an interesting
    combination ... where did you learn of it?  Great that it works!
    
    Thanks!

    I used a small amount of sugar, roughly 3 tablespoons (or one small
    sized lump).  I poured Povadine/Betadine solution on this, enough to
    make the sugar suspended in liquid form - ie. the consistancy of
    granulated sugar liquid.
    
    I don't think that there is any wrong way to make this.  Neither
    substance used externally is going to harm the horse.  The resulting
    solution I simply blopped on to his pasterns with a wad of sterile
    cotton.  He did sniff his feet, but left them alone. I'm sure it would
    taste awful. (this is the same horse that will drink the Vitrolin water
    if your not looking...how good can that taste?)
    
    Reducine might work just as well.  Desitin definately has helped this
    stuff from reoccuring.
    
    The Betadine/Sugar solution is not new.  Lori Tempowski the vet I use
    from Tufts uses it.  Plenty of "old" horsepeople have used it for a
    variety of things.
    
    By the by, a seasoned horse friend told me that the ergots on the
    pasterns readily act like rainspouts.  Wicking away water that would
    otherwise puddle on the pasterns.  Leaving them alone will help protect
    against water from creating scratches.
    
    regards,
    
    stephanie
    

    I have been reading this conference on "Scratches" or as we know it
    as "Mud Feaver" here in the UK for a couple of weeks and it has been
    interesting to learn about other peoples experiences with this
    unpleasant thing.
    
    Last night I went to put my horse away for the night and to my horror I
    noticed a bit of scabbing on one of his heals! (He has NEVER had this
    before in the 5 years I have had him) I thaught how on earth
    could he have got this?  He is a dark dappled grey with black skin, and
    I make sure that his legs are clean and dry before putting his stable 
    bandages on.   I inspected it even further, even though it was dark and
    it seemed rather sore, and was bleeding a little, so I went to my vets
    and he gave me a bottle of Betadine and he told me that this should do
    the trick.  So tonight I am going to apply this as per his instructions
    and hope that this does not repeat.
    
    The interesting thing is the other 2 horses in my yard who I also look
    after have not got Mud Feaver or Scratches, and the only thing I can
    think of, is my horse over-reached slightly last week whilst playing in 
    the field and he could have contracted this through the slight wound he 
    inflected on himself.
    
    If this is the case then how can I stop this from re-accoring?
    
    Wendy
    

    For the first two winters that I had my mare, she suffered badly
    from Mud fever.  We resorted to treating the affected area with
    Demobion (a product available from the vet) until the scabs were
    gone.  Once in this state her legs were thoroughly cleaned and dried.
    A generous layer quantity of liquid paraffin was rubbed into her legs.
    Every morning a thick layer of Zinc & Castor Oil ointment was smeared
    on and the worst carefully scraped off at night.  
    We cleaned and re-applied the paraffin once a week and this way managed
    to keep the Mud-fever away.
    
    Fortunately for us, these are things of the past.  I refered her to
    a Hoemeopathic vet, who prescribed various pillets that she has to
    take during the grass growing season.  Since taking these, shes had
    no more attacks (touch wood).
    
    

    Well its the summer now and has anyone heard of their horse getting
    mud feaver/scratches in the summer?  Well my horse has got it, and his
    back leg swelled up.  I think it is caused by going through some mud
    when we are out hacking and that gets behing his boots and starts to
    rub.  This is the first year it has happend, but i have recently moved
    him to a place that has got about 250 acres of private woodland to
    ride in and I think he is not used to going through the mud as where
    I kept him before I had to do mostly road work.  Has anyone got any
    suggestions as to how I can possibly avoid this re-occurance of mud
    feave?  I know the most obvious one and thats not to ride through the
    mud.  I had thaught about riding him without his boots on but because
    he is such a big horse he is prone to knock his legs when he is having
    one of his spooks!.
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Wendy

	Well Skipper's got it too, the vet says "there's a lot of it about"
	due to the hot wet summer. Any horse that's turned out could get it,
	I don't think there's any way of preventing it if your horse is
	susceptible to that sort of thing. Skipper's now had a course of
	antibiotics and is having Demobium (sp?) on the infected areas twice
	a day, and it seems to be clearing up now, but his legs were puffy
	and very sensitive a week or so ago. I'm not sure if the vet was
	pulling my leg, but apparently white legs are more likely to get it
	than darker ones, and sure enough Skipper has it on two of his three
	white socks...

	Jonathan.

    Horses with white feet are more apt to get scratches, along with
    a few other things.  I have used zinc oxide for scratches and that
    has worked well, but the best treatment seems to be keeping the area
    dry and clean.  Using a betadine soap and then making sure the area
    is towel dried works well.  

	Is there a known reason for white feet being more prone to
	this sort of thing? Something to do with pigmentation maybe?

	Jonathan.

    I believe that is what it is, pigmentation.  Also, horses with say
    one white foot on front will tend to go lame in that one instead
    of the other because white hoofs are softer.  My mare came down with
    gravel and absesses always in her white foot.

    There is no proof that white hooves are softer, harder to
    keep shod, etc. etc.  It's an old wives tale....
    
    One white foot, buy em,
    two white feet, try em,
    three white feet, be on the sly,
    four white feet, pass em by.
    
    
    L  

    John Wayne said, "... three white feet, shy'em
                   four white feet, 'hang their hide from a fence post'  
                                     =================================
                   or some other inglorious last line in "True Grit"
    referring to Little Blackie.  Little Blackie ultimately was the one to
    showed true grit by giving up her life to save Baby Sister.  So....
    nobody's perfect...  ;)
    
    Back to real life, we have a Little Blackie named Sheeba with one white
    front hoof.  She has recently recovered from a stone bruise in her
    white hoof.  Anybody else care to comment about wive's tales? :}
    

    
    RE: .29:
    
    You're probably right, but I've had a couple of different blacksmiths
    who agreed with the white-feet-aren't-as-strong theory....
    
    who knows
    Amy

    My mare has one white (well, actually it's striped) hoof, and sure
    enough it's always the first one to throw a shoe......kinda makes
    ya wonder about those old wives', huh?
    

    re .29, .30
    
    I guess there's lots of variations of this little verse.  I've heard
    
    One white stocking buy him,
    Two white stockings try him,
    Three white stockings give him to your wife,
    Four white stockings ride him for your life.
    
    and also
    
    One white stocking buy him,
    Two white stockings try him,
    Four white stockings and a white nose,
    Take off his hide and feed him to the crows.
    
    
    By the way I have a mare with no white feet, and she gets stone bruises
    all the time.  And a gelding with no white feet who gets gravel in his
    right front EVERY summer.  Go figure.  
    
    -ellie

	Well like I said my vet told me white sock'ed legs are more
	prone to damage... mind you I was a bit taken aback by the
	way he was hopping in and out of a chalk circle holding a
	birch twig and a newt's tail and chanting latin at the time...

	Jonathan.

    thanks to .34 I'll be driving home with a grin on my face... :)
    

    Thanks for all the replies, some of which I thaught very funny! 
    William my horse is a dappled grey and has not go compleatly white
    legs, the hair on them is black or darl grey.  I will have to take
    a trip to my vets to get some demobion, which from what I have heard is
    supposed to be very good.  
    
    When Williams legs were swollen I used an animalintex poultice and that
    seemd to take the swelling down a little, but he seems to be ok now.
    
    Touch wood and fingers crossed!!
    
    Wendy

    Re .34
    
    That was good!  Ha ha ha...
    
    My gelding has two white hinds, and two black front
    hooves.....he stone bruised the right front a few weeks ago.
    
    HRH

    
    
    
    ok, just for the record, my old palomino mare had three stockings
    (all the way up to the hock and knees) 
    
    White feet might be a little softer , I think it depends on the 
    type of soil the horse is on... new england rocks just tore my mares
    feet part (including the dark hoof)
    the stone bruise she once got was on the dark hoof.. and the arthritis
    also set into the dark legged knee :*)
    
    		wendy o'
    
    
    

    I was wondering if anyone has a source for any of the anti fungal
    products listed in this note.  I have tried a few of the vet supply
    800 numbers looking for Fulvasin or Equitain shampoo and none of them
    have heard of either product.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!
    
    Linda

Hi Linda,

I've used the Fulvasin before and I got it from my vet.  As I recall, it
had a Farnum label on it.  Maybe someone in the Springs could call
Dr. Wallace and find out where they get it and let us know in the
notes file............

Did the sugar and betadine do any good?

Jan

    Hi Jan,
    
    I used the sugar and betadine twice, 12 hours on and 12 off, after
    that I started using Desatin.  Thing seemed fine, then she popped
    a quarter crack, it's always something!  The blacksmith patched it,
    and I've only been jogging her lightly 1 or 2 miles a day to let that
    heal.  So far so good on the heels, but that could be because her
    work has been reduced.  I ended up getting Equitain shampoo from the
    manufacturer and have been using that in her heels when I give her a 
    bath and putting desatin on when I put her away at night.  Hopefully
    this is a cure!
    
    Linda