Conference noted::equitation

From the sounds of it, you've made progress in the six months you've
worked with him so perhaps you're right on track with him.  

You mentioned he's hurried, has rough downward transitions, and is not
"setting his head" (do you mean accepting the bit?)  -- also you mentioned
he trips. 

I'd say these are all the normal signs of a green horse... His hurrying
will improve as he learns to relax and activate his hind end.  A hurried
horse is ALWAYS on his forehand.  Things to help him use his hind end are
bending and lateral exercises, correct use of a  "half halt," canter work,
lots of transitions, and the trotting poles/gymnastics (you mentioned).
These are just some things that can help strengthen the hind end.
Ideally you want his back to be relaxed and for him to be reaching his neck
forward and "stretching through his topline."  Watch him on the longe line
and make sure he's "tracking up" from behind.    At the walk his hind hoof
print should "overtrack" his front hoof print.  At the trot, his hind foot
print should fall in the track of his front hoof print.  If this isn't
happening, you could either get after him a little more, to encourage more
hind end activity, or else abandon the whole longing idea.  (Unless you're
longing him just to get the bucks out).

The rough downward transitions are telling you he's falling on his forehand.
Prepare for the transitions by collecting him slightly via driving aids and
half halts.  The tripping too is all related to him being on his forehand.

If he's not consistently accepting the bit, then that's no big deal yet.
A horse who is consistently accepting the bit has usually had at least a 
year's worth of dressage work.   Also, you mentioned something about "having to
keep at it" to keep him on the bit.  That's certaintly to be expected, I
think at this stage.   Even riders on high level horses are constantly
aware (perhaps subconsciously) of signs when the horse might come off the bit,
so s(he) can correct it before it actually materializes.

My opinion is you're right on track, to be patient, and keep that "eye from the
ground" (instructor) to help identify when things look right or not.

Melinda

    I agree it sounds like he's made alot of progress.  I have been through
    alot of the same things as yourself with a just plain green horse of
    my own.  At times it is frustrating, but it is important to think back
    to when you first started with him and realize all the progress he has
    made.  One of the things training a horse on your own does is teach
    a lot of patience and better understanding of the periods of training
    a green animal goes through.  One day it will all come together and you
    will be elated.  Keep at it, be careful not to overdo it.  Try some
    different things (trotting poles, try some lateral work, trail riding,
    maybe an additional day off once in a while) You will finally reach
    some of your goals and be expecting more all the time.  An instructor
    is a real help to keep you on the right track and help correct things
    before they become a problem.  I have been at it for almost two years
    with my gelding and it has been well worth the wait this year.
    
                                          Wendy

    
Thanks for all your suggestions and comments!  
    
    As far as not setting his head; let me clarify.  I think two
    things are contributing to the problem.  One is that as a race
    horse, perhaps he was encouraged to stretch his neck out and
    keep his head up and forward.  Also, I was working him in a 
    5" plain snaffle up until a month or so ago...how long should
    it take to adjust to a new bit?  Sometimes he does accept
    the bit and responds other times he resists with all his
    might (which is a lot!).
    
    I can tell almost to the precise moment when he starts to get
    frustrated with ME and that's when he really stops listening
    and wants to just go, go, go.  Hence the longeing work...otherwise
    he wants to buck under saddle.  He's not being nasty (his ears
    are forward) he's just feeling powerful and good!
      
    
    I feel sometimes like I try to collect him TOO MUCH.  I've heard
    that with greener horses you need to really work them into collection
    by building flexibility into their neck area?  
    
    I know I tend to be very demanding and don't reward him enough...I'm
    hoping a good instructor will constantly remind me of this as well
    as put my (and his) progress into perspective by telling ME when
    enough is enough!
    
    Thanks,

    As far as Barbara Edwards, she used to riding over in England so
    that may say something... I've met her a couple of times and she
    seems to be nice... A friend of mine got her B.H.S.I. (or A.I.,
    can't remember) under Barbara in England and she (my friend) thought
    Barbara was great...
    
    Sorry I can't tell you more,
    
    	Linda

    When I first bought my horse Jasper, 3 years ago, he held his head
    high (he's part Tennessee Walker), all he wanted to do was gallop
    (includin his approaches to fences), and his transitions downward
    were struggles; he didn't want to stop at all.
    
    It's taken a long time to finally get to the point where people
    say "he's such a well-behaved horse". Of course they didn't see
    him when I first bought him.
    
    I thought within a few months I would have gotten rid of all his
    bad habits. Was I WRONG! 
    It took about 2 years (from Novermber - April we didn't do that
    much riding so of course we had to start his training all over again
    in April)
    
    All I can say is don't give up. Progress comes so slowly that it's
    only when you've had your horse for a much longer period of time
    that you realize how much he/she/it has improved.
    
    One suggestion I can make as far as transitions, most of my problems
    occurred because Jasper would get a hold of the bit when I would
    transition downward. A couple of things I would do is 
    1) right before I realized I wanted to stop I would seat deep in
    the saddle. (no forward seat)
    2) when it came time to actually slow him down, I used the bit as
    a wall (in other words have a good hold of his mouth but not tight
    and keep it steady - not pulling) and would drive him with my legs
    towards the bit. This would engage more of his rear but he can't
    really go anywhere because the bit is stopping him.
    It definitely did help, but it took alot of time. 
    
    That same principle works in order to get your horse collected,
    which is really what you want to happen at the downward transition.
    
    So good luck and be happy that he's shown so much progress in just
    6 months.
    			Cindy
    

    Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement.  I have been doing
    almost all the things you suggested so perhaps I really am just
    being impatient!  
    

    Would it help if instead of schooling once in a while you went for
    a nice long hack (trail ride) instead, with the aim that both of
    you should simply enjoy yourselves!  Perhaps you're both getting
    frustrated?
    
    Helen.

	I've taken lessons from Barbara and am crazy about her!
	She is good, has an extremely positive attitude (tells
	you what you're doing RIGHT as well as telling you how
	do the other things better), and trains the horse as well
	as the rider. She's fun to work with, but knows her stuff.

	She's also one of the few American instructors who has been
	allowed to observe training of the Lippizaners at the Austrian
	school. And she's certified to teach in England...I forget
	what the title is - British Horse something (sorry, Ian).

	I think you'll like working with her.

	 Something that I've found works well with my gelding is to keep
     the  training  sessions  short. Two hours of work/exercise might be
     too  much  for  your horse to handle, both mentally and physically.
     If  my horse is good after 20 or 30 minutes, I quit then, on a good
     note.  I  have  also  done a *lot* of work at the walk and trot. He
     gets  unbalanced  in the canter, so right now we don't do very much
     of it.

	 As far  as  resisting and going on the bit - for learning, I am
     using a lot of (very) leading inside rein and then "massaging" with
     the  outside  rein  to  get him to soften. At the same time, making
     sure  my  legs are there so he doesn't pop out at the shoulder. All
     this  at  the walk, for starters. When the walk is pretty solid (at
     least  for  short  periods), then start the same thing at the trot.

	 Also, when  I would start to have a problem, I would go back to
     the walk and try to work the problem out there. That's where I have
     the most control. When he's listening to me again, then I try again
     with the original activity. 
     
	 If I  find we're not making any progress on any particular day,
     I  ask him to do something simple that he knows how to do, and then
     quit.  I try to never put him away on a bad note. If I do that, the
     argument  continues.  I  just  have  to remind myself that although
     physically  the horse is 7 years old, mentally he's only about 3 or
     4  and I'm asking him to do stuff he doesn't have a clue about.

	 I agree  with  others  about  'going out for a walk' sometimes.
     You  can  even  ask  for  the same stuff on the hack as in the ring.
     Don't  fight about it though. It won't get you anywhere. Enjoy your
     time  together. Hopefully you're riding because you *enjoy* it, not
     because you *must*.  Not every day has to be a 'work' day.


	 As an   aside:  Something  that  I've  noticed  is  that  one's
     definition  of  'horrible'  changes  subtly  as  the  horse's basic
     knowledge  increases.  When  you  first  start  trying  to change a
     behavior,  any  move  in  the  correct direction is 'wonderful' and
     there  is  hardly any 'horrible' because it can't be any worse than
     it  already is. After the desired behavior begins to be consistent,
     any deviation from that behavior is considered 'horrible'.