Conference noted::equitation

    Is she too young/immature for the amount of work she's doing?

    Because of the amount of money involved in training, especially
    racing.  I would take the filly to a hospital, like Tufts, or
    Rochester, or where ever is closer to you.  At a such hospitals
    you will have many more treatments, and expertise at your disposal.
    This is not a put down on track vets, but in hospitals you will
    have a better shot at finding out what this filly's problem is,
    and for a three year old, lack of energy should not be a problem.
    
    stephanie
    

	 You might  look  into  having a complete thyroid workup done on
     her.  I  have known two horses that were hypothyroid (underactive).
     In  both  cases  they  were  very  hard to get fit and tended to be
     sluggish  and  tire  easily.  (Also  to  overheat). They also had a
     tendency towards being overweight. 


	 If you  want  more  specifics,  I can try to find out the exact
     tests that were run to determine this condition.


		    Kathy

    
    I recieved in the mail, the paperwork containing the blood results
    on my horse and showed it to my Vet. 
      
    What he had to say was:
    	1.)Because her blood was sent to a lab, and a centrifuge was
           not immediately used to spin down the blood...that her blood
    	   sugar was artificially low. It is exceedingly rare for a
    	   horse to have low blood sugar, and her tests did not show
           a true problem in this area. 
    	2.)The enzyme tests that showed elevated numbers, could be 
           indicative of a liver problem or muscular break down normal 
           for a horse in training. He said that from the test results
    	   he could not tell which was at fault. He suggested that we
    	   run some more specific enzyme tests and check for elevated
           levels:
    	
    	   CPK - Muscle specific Enzyme test 
    	   SDH - Liver specific Enzyme test 
       
      	3.)I asked if her age could the reason, and he said that due
           to her age, the reverse should be true..she should be more
    	   energetic and high strung. 
    	4.)I told him she was an extremely "easy keeper", and not slimming
    	   down at the track, and he suggested that we run another test:
    
    	   T4 - Thyroid test
    
    Appendum: So far, we have eliminated the "LOW BLOOD SUGAR" theory.
    I contacted my Trainer and this week we are going to have the above
    tests included in her blood work to be done this week.
    
    If the LIVER ENZYMES are elevated ... the treatment is vitamin B
    supplements to help the liver work more effectively.
    
    If the MUSCLE ENZYMES are elevated ...the treatment is vitamin E
    and selenium supplements to aid the muscular break down healing
    process.
    
    Well she has been getting the Vitamin B supplements (liver powder)
    for 2 weeks now. And she has also been getting the vitamin E and
    selenium (in powder form). We are switching to a Vitamin E and 
    a selenium shot that is longer lasting and rather than given every
    day...is only required every two weeks. So we're ahead of ourselves
    in the treatment department and are not seeing the results we want.
    
    Her trainer says she is always very willing to do everything you ask, 
    it isn't that she's lazy or doesn't have the temperment for racing,
    but physically something is preventing her from recovering .......
    the next day ... she lacks energy ... we have to back down on her
    training for a couple of days and do very easy works. My trainer
    has not pushed her at all...she was almost to the point where in
    another couple of weeks they would have started to push a little,
    and do works to see how fast she is. Something is wrong, and we
    can't go on until we find out what.............
    
    Hasn't someone out there had a horse that for one reason or another,
    was lacking energy while in show training? My filly would show the
    same "lack of energy" if she were in show training.......It's not
    that she can't do what you ask her...it's just that she's tired
    the next day..too tired! At this rate, she wouldn't make a good
    show horse either! 
    
    Can VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS B & E AND SELENIUM REALLY CHANGE THE ENERGY
    LEVEL VERY MUCH IN A HORSE THAT IS LACKING THEM?
    
    Another idea: My trainer is cutting down her protein level to see
    if that helps. Some horses can't take a high percentage of protein
    while in training, it takes more energy for them to process the
    extra protein...resulting in a lack of energy.
    
    	 	Please respond with YOUR ideas,
    				Thank you, Nancy
    

    
    Kathy,
    		I would definitely appreciate it if you could find out
    what tests are used to determine a hypothyroid condition. I would
    like to find out if this could be the problem....it certainly sounds
    like it could be! Do you know what the treatment is for a thyroid
    problem? Do you have any idea (i.e. the cases you stated) of how
    long it takes before improvements begin to occur after treating
    a horse for this condition?
    			
    		THANK YOU, VERY MUCH!  ............NANCY

    This reply belongs more in the Laminitus topic, but  a friends 
    horse was just tested and results came back with a very poor
    thyroid condition. The horse has an extreme case of laminitus.
    The tests were sent by a local vet to Tufts. The vet will be
    coming back out tomorrow. I really don't know what the treatment
    is, Thyroxin??, but it is expensive. More xrays will be taken
    and upon those findings will decide whether the horse will have
    to go for any further help.
    
    Marianne
    

    
    
    In the for what it's worth column...  last fall my weanling colt
    displayed similar symptoms .  Upon a second opinion and review of
    all lab work - and updated lab work it was determined that he in
    fact was harboring a low grade infection which was wearing him down
    physically and mentally.  It was an upper respriatory thing that
    was not as evident as one might have thought - In fact folks kept
    telling me that I was a 'worried mother', when I knew that something
	
    was wrong
    was wrong (even the 1st vet!)...  The 2nd opinion helped us see
    that often lab results are compared to "average or normal" and in
    fact horses (like people) sometimes have their own normal which
    is beyond the average - ie; one or two points could be a devistating
    scenario.
    
    I guess my message is if you still feel unsure - get another opinion
    and don't leave any room for questions.  I know that my situation
    was/is different than a horse in training - butbut as responsible
    owners and lovers of our beasts a second opinion can't hurt.
    
    Best - holly b
    
    

    I have a yearling Arabian colt that exhibited some of the tiredness
    and depressed look that you're describing.  My vet's blood work
    showed a very low iron content.  He prescribed Ferrisol, which is
    for children.  I squirted it in the colt's mouth, I think twice
    a day (it was last year; hard to remember, but I can find out from
    my records).
    
    The colt also had had upper respiratory problems -- not pneumonia,
    but something else.  HE was weaned by this time.  I remember that
    he coughed occasionally, rather violently.  He took Robitussin (the
    plain variety -- comes in family size for about $4) for that.
    
    Please let us know what you find out.  I have a colt in training
    in Virginia.  He doesn't seem to have the energy he should have
    as a two-year-old, either.

    
    Explanation of cutting down on protein intake of my filly as an
    idea............although my trainer did not explain it to me this
    way, through word of mouth I found out:
    
    They have been feeding my filly Ormaline (don't know correct spelling)
    the product that says "with athlete". The track Vet seems to think
    that her feed could be causing the problem. The "with athlete" ormaline
    has been known to screw up the horses' metabolism and cause liver problems. 
                                                          
    Has anyone ever heard of this happening? 
    
    Could her problem be the "feed" ("with athlete") that they're giving
    her?
    
     	 	Any comments, or similiar experiences as a result of
    	        feed changes????????
    
    			Nancy
                                                 

    
    
    More info to add on Thyroid problems....(Thank you Kathy!)
    
    The T4 test alone is inconclusive since almost all horses fall into
    the normal range...I did not know this, and therefore will call
    my trainer tonight and ask that T3 and T7 tests be added to 
    determine the thyroid function.
    
    Possible Potassium deficiency...a urinalysis (renal clearance test)
    done at the same time the blood is being run can determine this
    condition.
    
    My filly could be Cushingoid (sdrenal cortex problem). To test for
    this, ACTH and Dexamethazone tests for cortisol. This would explain
    the lack of muscle stimulation and "easy keeping".
    
    A pituitary tumor would also display the same symptoms I described
    for my filly...along with not "sweating.
    
    
    I thought I should add this information to the notes file...in the
    event that it may also help someone else. I hope with these tests,
    we can track down what's wrong with my filly. 
                                                        
    Thank you for reminding me to get a second opinion. Although we
    have 4 Vets involved with this problem, you have reminded me to
    get those 2nd opinions at each stage of "diagnose". I will have
    her iron level rechecked...it was okay...but I want to be sure!
    One other thing ... I did not realise that what are average levels
    for most horses (in tests) may not be for my filly. This can get
    really tricky! It makes me think of the first blood test...her 
    white blood count was slightly elevated...but when the second 
    test showed the number had decreased and not increased, all of
    the vets concured that a low grade infection did not exist. 
    
    Please! Any other suggestions...no matter how small, may Help!
    
    		"WHAT OTHER THINGS COULD CAUSE A LACK OF ENERGY?"
    
    				Nancy
    
    

RE .10
    
    Maybe not a suggestion, just a thought, having had many racehorses
    myself.  Is it possible that the horse is just bored, not interested
    in racing?  I had a standardbred mare that was very lethargic on
    the track, but made a wonderful riding horse.  Some horses have
    it as far as being good racehorses, while other horses don't, and
    there is nothing that can be done to change that.  Just a thought....

Could it have anything to do with electrolytes or salt?  Both are lost
by sweating and I know event horses are sometimes supplemented with
salt & electrolytes.   Human atheletes also take these supplements...

I knew of an event horse that would nearly collapse after cross
country even though she was extremely fit.   I think they finally attributed
it to a heart problem though.

Good luck,

Melinda

    There are many complicated scenarios with these four legged creatures
    we all love.  My three month old filly contracted pneumonia last
    year and was in very bad shape before I could get a vet to listen
    to me about how sick she really was.  It took a second opinion to
    discover the pneumonia and the treatment almost killed her (she
    colicked).  I could not see trying this supplement, that supplement
    without wondering if I wasn't screwing her up more than anything.
     I would suggest you stop all supplements, put her on a good 11-14%
    sweet feed with really good canadian hay, then admit her into Rochester
    Equine Clinic and let them do a battery of tests on her.  But first
    I would send copies of everything already done on her first.  Let
    me explain to you that lab results can be very deceiving because
    depending on what lab is used you can get incorrect results.  I
    should know because I have invested over $2K in my filly to discover
    that she is immune deficient.  We still don't know how accurate
    these blood tests are because they are different every time we run
    them.  Have you thought about bringing your filly home and seeing
    how she acts with being worked just as hard at home as at the trainers?
    Maybe she is bored.  Also, do you consider she is tired because
    she is asleep in her stall or is it determined by how she does under
    saddle say the next day?  Most of mine sleep in the stall because
    they are bored but its a different story under saddle.  I hope I
    was able to give  you some ideas.  If you are spending a great deal
    of money on all of these tests with no answers I would give Grant
    Myhre a call at Rochester Equine Clinic at 603-332-6482.  That clinic
    I would highly recommend to anyone.  They have called all over the
    place trying to find answers for me about my fillies problem.  If
    they don't know the answers they try to find out.  I wish you the
    best of luck as I know how discouraging this can be.
    
    Nancy

    
    I went down to Delaware to see my Filly. I wanted to see the problem
    my trainer described. We had her worked the first day 5/8 mi jog
    and 1 1/4 mi gallop (faster pace than she's used to). We expected
    to see her down in her stall the next day. However, the next day
    she was fine...and looked brighter than the first. She did the same
    work the next day, and she was fine again. I left Delaware without
    seeing the problem. She was worked a 3rd day the same way also,
    and had no problem recovering. The 4th day she was given the day
    off and just walked around the shed row...in fact...she was pulling
    the person walking her around the shed row! I hope this continues,
    only time will tell. 
    
    We found out by going down to Delaware, that her confirmation has
    changed...she has shot up in the rear end at least 8 inches higher
    than her withers. Because of this, she has an extremely difficult
    time getting her rear legs under herself. At faster pace she does
    better, but at a slower jog..she uses her front legs more to pull
    herself along and she can't get her hind legs under herself, they
    more or less fly out behind her. This situation is causes her
    stress not only to her rear legs, but also her front ones. My vet
    suggests that we bring her home this year and wait till next year
    to train her for racing...when her confirmation has evened out.
    If she runs, her confirmation won't allow her to do well anyways.
    We have decided to follow his advice. First she will finish out
    her July training so that we can hopefully resolve her "lack of
    energy" problem.
                                                                
    Progress:
    
    We now know that her problem is not:
    	* Low grade infection 
    	* Liver - The track vet feels that this possibility was eliminated 
    		  by giving her liver powder for the first 2 weeks of
    		  June. However my Vet feels this cannot be ruled out
    		  until she comes home and he does a specific liver
    		  enzyme test.
    
    She seems to have improved greatly...but are not sure what to attribute
    this to. Maybe one of the following:
    
    	* Feed - %protein has been lowered.
    	* My Vet suggested the possibility that she was recovering from
    	  something unknown..displayed a "lack of energy"..and had
          recovered enough that it was not detected by the time we did
    	  her blood work. (Her first test showed a slightly high white
    	  blood cell count, that decreased in each following test)
        * Anemic - We got her last bloodwork results the day we left for 
    	  Delaware. This bloodwork was taken during a time when she
    	  was given a few days off. Her red cell count was low and showed
    	  her to be anemic. When we got home I asked my Vet to explain.
    	  He said that exercise causes the spleen to produce and expell
    	  more red cells, accounting for the numbers being higher in
    	  her previous 3 blood tests. But that the results from a test
    	  done when the horse is not working, is more indicative of
    	  her normal red cell count, which in this case was low..showing
    	  her to be anemic. The track Vet put her on a blood builder
    	  called "redcell" which she had been taking for about 2 weeks
    	  before we went to Delaware and had her worked. So maybe this
    	  explains the improvement we're now seeing.
    	
    Thyroid: My trainer had a T3 and T4 tests done. The problem is that
    	     they're inconclusive...they were done at a people lab..not
    	     a horse lab, which is what I asked for. I also asked for
    	     other tests to be done, that were not. It appears I have
    	     a communication problem between my trainer and the track
    	     Vet, which is another reason why I want to bring my filly
    	     home. When she comes home, my Vet has agreed to do the tests
    	     necessary to find out what is really wrong with her.
                                                                   
     That's all for now..........Nancy
    
    
    

    Followup Report:
    
    My filly Came home in July and my vet ran the whole series of tests
    over again. He didn't find a thing! She's just fine. We're going
    to forget racing Arabs for the time being. One piece of advice I
    did get was that "no matter how athletic a horse is...speed must
    be in the pedigree" I talked to a geneticist and he agrees that
    no matter how athletic you think your horse is ... he needs to 
    inherit speed genes to be fast on the track! Also,
    
    	1. Arabs take more time to come along, don't send a horse to
           track in feb. and expect it to race before fall. Try Nov.
           of the previous year to train young stock - they have alot
    	   to learn.
    
    	2. If you seriously want to breed race horses....start with
           proven stock, you can't afford to fool around with your own.
    
    	3. Most of the best stakes winning horses (Arabs) don't win
           until their 6 and 7 yrs. old. Long time to be putting money
    	   into them.
    
    	4. It's very hard to break even.
                                        
    Good luck to everyone who gets involved in racing....it's fun and
    expensive!