Conference noted::equitation

    Hi,
    
    Well, I've had alittle experience in this color business with Arabian
    babies (try to fill out registration forms can be a real challenge).
    
    When our foal was born she was bay, alot like the way you described
    your little bundle of joy.  By the time she shed her foal fur out
    she was a rose grey and the following sheding the next spring she
    was a steel grey.
    
    Her father is a speckled grey and her mother was white (with grey
    skin), I'm willing to guess that your baby will probably end up
    the same way.  
    
    I was told that in the Arabian world that grey was the dominate
    color. Maybe some of our more versed Arabian folks can help us both
    out on this.  What about it Bob, Kathi, Merri etc...
    
    Lorna
    

    	Congratulations Nancy,,he seems like a dandy. I'm no expert
    on Arabains,but he sure sound nice.  A few words based on my experience
    with our Appaloosa colt (who's six now) Handle your colt every day,
    start picking up his feet,and work at leading as soon as he's steady
    on his feet. It's much easier to get a handle on him now than when
    he weighs five hundred pounds or more.
    	Also,if you have a safe turnout for him and the mare,let them
    out as often as possible,for as long as possible. This is the time
    in his life where he need to exercise,and develop his reflexes.
    
    	Good luck,
    		George
    

    Sounds like your foal will be gray.  My horse was sort of bay until
    he was over a year old.  He had a black mane and tail, black legs 
    and a large stripe on his face.  His body had white hairs mixed in 
    with the brown.  Each year he got a little lighter, his mane and 
    tail turned silver, and his body gray. The first part to turn white 
    was his face.  At age 12 he was almost white except for gray legs.
    It was always interesting each spring to see what he would look like
    when he shed out.  Eventually he had no visible white markings left. 
    Good Luck! 
    
    
                                   Wendy

    I agree, your foal will be grey.  My arab was born a very dark
    brown/bay with black stockings and two white socks.  His sire, *Monokl
    is bay, but his dam is grey.  Metrik, now 4 this April, is a light
    brown ( he looks like chocolate milk that has not been mixed). 
    It is hard to think of him being all grey/brown or maybe white when
    he is older, like the proverbal "Horse of a different color", just
    like having a new horse.  
    
    White hairs around the eyes are a sure sign that baby will be changing
    his disguise as the years pass.
    
    For fun, I make sure to take pictures every 5 or 6 months to compare
    the color changes.  You will be amazed if you do this to see the
    change in coat, as well as seeing him grow up.
                                   
    stephanie
    

    Your foal is almost guarenteed to be grey.  The telltale signs are
    white hairs over or under the eyes, on the muzzle, or sometimes
    even in the coat.  White hairs in the tail don't mean much other
    than you have some white hairs in the tail.  We've had a number
    of foals with this tail coloring that never did change.  By the
    way, Grey color is only assured when one of the parents is a
    homozygous grey (you'll know this if all offspring have been grey).
    *Etiw was such a grey.  Otherwise you could have just about anything.
    
    Bob_who_can_see_but_doesn't_recognize_colors
    
    

    Sure sounds grey to me.  We have had liver chestnuts, with no hint
    of grey for the first two years...even registered as a liver
    chestnut...turn grey in her thied year.  Then we had a bay, similar
    to yours turn grey in her second year.  They certainly are fun to
    watch.
    
    I do agree with one of the previous replies...handle the little
    fellow as much as possible.  We have a baby halter on ours the 
    second day they are in this world.  We don't keep it on all the
    time only when he and Ma are going out.  They usually just follow
    along so there is no problem...you just flow with them until they
    are older.
    
    Have fun...they are a joy.
    

    Hi!
    	You all were right, He IS going to be grey! I was so impatient
    to know...I couldn't believe the change in his color in a few days!
    His legs have really lightened up and half-way up to the hock they
    are already GREY! He has white hairs over both eyes. It's so obvious
    (with your discriptions) that he is going to be Grey, that even
    a novice(me) can tell. Thank you for all your help! 
    
    P.S. I was fortunate enough to have an Arab breeder over my house
    this weekend, who verified that the foal will DEFINITELY be grey.
    I can't wait to see him change color!
    						
    				Thanks, Nancy

    HI NANCY,
    
    My name is also Nancy.  I have a yearling Arab filly that is a grey.
    She looked like a bay when she was born except for one white star
    on her forehead.  But you could see greying to her muzzle and as
    she got older she got more and more grey/white hairs throughout
    her coat.  Her mane, tail and legs are even now black/black.  Her
    body color is black/brown with the grey/white hairs throughout.
    From your description I would say you have a grey also.  But without
    seeing your foal it is hard to say.  Most bays are born with their
    legs almost a fawn color.
    
    					Nancy
    

    hello, my name is yvonne butler. i own 5 arabs and one part-bred.There
    colours will always be a mystery to me. my stallion was born black,then
    went dark bay and finally is on his way to grey. He has covered
    the same chestnut mare for the last two years. last years result
    was born black and 14 months later is still black/brown. This year
    we were presented with a rich-bay colt, who is for sale to a showing
    home,if anyone is interested.His sire is Sallan(Saab x Sera char
    Llanny). his dam is Rihma Bint Rabba(Ben Rabba xCountess Ireena).
    He is a real little cracker.
    tel; 7833 3577 Basingstoke England

    I have not found a better home for this reply so it is here.  This
    concerns not color but development of the arab colt.  My colt is a
    Davenport/Crabbet mix of about 90%/10%.  He is 14.1 at twenty months
    and has really grown in the last four months.
    
    In the last two months, he has shown symptoms of mild colic such as
    biting at sides, turning in circles, getting up and down, etc.  None of
    this has been prolonged or violent enough to call in the vet.  Each
    time, I'll put on a lounge line and he'll "poop" up the arena just fine
    at trot and walk.  I have come wonder about sexual maturity and how it
    exhibited.  His play in the paddock has become more dominant of late
    and the more docile geldings he has been with since a weanling are
    letting him have his way.
    
    There are no signs of testicles yet and I have to wonder about that. 
    The local vet says that colts are born with them down but this
    conflicts with belief I've held for some time.  In most stallions I've
    seen they are very obvious and an element of doubt about the vet's
    opinion has crept in.  He also says that the behavior noted in the
    first paragraph represents natural adolescent anxiety and is normal.
    
    Well, how about some opinions from those that experience with young
    horses.  This is my first under two years old and I've had him since
    five months.
    
    /bob
    

    If you don't see anything in a colt of 20 months you have a problem.
    Most cases both are clearly down by six months. I would have a vet
    check him out very soon, at this point gelding is the only option for
    the comfort and mind of the horse. He may be having discomfort from the
    retained testies.
    

    If your vet says there is no problem, get a second opinion.  I think 
    that colts are usually gelded at 10 months because by then, both 
    testicles have dropped.

    Yes, please do get him checked out. Retained testicles frequently cause 
    mild colic like symptoms. TB racehorse AP Indy had ONE retained testicle 
    which had to be surgically removed because it was causing him trouble. 
    Imagine how uncomfortable your colt must be with TWO growing testicles 
    putting pressure on his internal organs!
    
    John

    
    Bob,
    
    They aren't always born with them down, and not always both down
    at 6 months from what I'm told.  Some stallions have been know to
    only have one down and function properly without discomfort.  It
    definately needs to be checked out to make sure, but unless
    his colic symptoms are related to his testicles, than I would
    maybe see what the vet says.   We have a stallion at the farm,
    that you would swear is a gelding (IN Cold Weather!) he tucks
    himself pretty well in the cold!!!!   Good luck, I hope
    all works out well.....  Paula wants to talk to you about his Dam's
    passing on..... 
    
    Nancy
    

    Araba Zkylark?  I didn't think she was that old..... Could you drop
    Paula's number here?  I'm sure I have it somewhere but am on the road 4
    days a week lately and probably won't think to dig it out.
    
    You'r right about the cold, maybe that is it.  but will have the vet
    call on him this week.
    
    /bob

    
    Bob,
    
    508-429-4061.........  Yes, Lark, she had complications during
    her pregnancy, I believe she was carrying twins and she was at a boarding
    stable of new new owners.... Nothing to due with age... 
    Pretty sad ...... So I believe you have her last surviving colt..
    
    Good luck to you!
    
    Nancy
    

    This may sound like a dumb question but...........
    
    
    	Are there any pure Arabian Palaminos?
    
    I have searched my memory for one and just can remember ever seeing
    one.  Now, I don't show Arabs so that may be why I can't remember one.
    
    Virginia

I sent mail to an aquaintance in Arizona who is up on the genetics of coat 
color in Arabs. I asked her about palomino in their gene pool. The short 
version is that there are Arabs colored like palominos. Here's her 
answer(Remember that cremello x chestnut -> palomino.):

Hi, John, 

No, the cremello gene as such does not exist in Arabians, HOWEVER,
there is an imitation of it available to them.  There are Arabians whose
coat versions of chestnut resembles palomino and bay resembles buckskin.

These coat colors seem to behave genetically just like chestnut and bay
with no cremello dilution gene at all.  There are breeders who specialize
in breeding so-called "Arabian palominos" and there is at least one
mare who was accepted because of her color into one of the Palomino
registries.  

The difference in genetic behavior between this gene and the cremello 
gene is that if you breed two cremello palominos together often
enough then you will wind up with an average of 1 chestnut baby, 2 palomino
babies, and 1 cremello baby.  But, if you breed two of these Arabian
palominos together you get no cremellos at all.  I don't know what the 
ratio of chestnuts to Arab palominos you would get is as that wasn't
published in the literature I read.  

Not only does the Arabian version of palomino color behave as though it 
were genetically chestnut, but it LOOKS exactly like a 24K gold palomino 
with flaxen mane and tail. The only difference is that the Arabian
version tends to become a little darker, especially in the mane,
as they age, which goes along with chestnuts with flaxen manes
who also become a bit darker as they age.

Keep in mind that there are breeders who specialize in breeding palomino 
part-bred Arabians usually with a high percentage of Arab blood, that DO 
have the cremello gene.  But the purebred Arabian absolutely does not have 
the cremello gene available to them.

					Tracy Scheinkman

    Ok, so what is being said here is that there aren't any TRUE palimino
    Arabs..........
    
    I have never seen one even close.  I have seen alot of half Arab
    paliminos tho.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Virginia