Conference noted::equitation

    
    I would think that for the Stallion, if he will be shown also, you
    would probably be asked to breed your mare in March or April at
    the latest.  I really don't know what a good age is at first, but
    isn't three too young to breed? Physically I know they can be bred
    and have a foal, but they're not even fully developed themselves
    at that age?? Just a curious question.
    
    Thanks
    Marianne
    

    3 yrs. is fine to breed a healthy mare. You also should have no
    problems showing the horse this season. The foal does not make serious
    nutritional demands on the mare until months 8 thru 11. The major
    caution is to not overwork the mare after breeding. I would define
    overwork as extreme sweating, shaking due to muscle overexertion,
    etc.. Recent studies have shown that a 2-yr. old mare, when receiving
    proper nutrition, in sufficient quantities, can successfully breed
    and birth without detrimental effects. However, since it is difficult
    to always maintain optimum nutritional intake, most breeders recommend
    waiting until the mare is 3 to breed. I show my pregnant mares in
    halter and driving classes and have never had a problem. However,
    I spend a lot of time studying equine nutrition and would recommend
    anyone that breeds horses to increase their knowledge in this area.
    Seek the advice of other successful breeders.

    
    Marianne,
    
    I've been told that a horse can physically be bred at the age of
    2 but that the Arab registry doesn't support breeding until 3 years
    of age. My Vet told me that studies show..... when they are bred
    at 3 - 4 years of age that their life-long fertility is better.
    My filly is sensible and nothing bothers her, so I don't think that
    breeding her will have any adverse effects. In fact, she is taking
    a positive interest in the stallions this year. I asked the same
    question before deciding to breed her, and learned the most important
    thing is to make sure they are mentally ready, because physically
    she won't mature until around 7 yrs. 
    
    			Nancy
    

    
    Hi Nancy, thanks for responding. Yes, I knew that Physically they
    were able, but wasn't sure about whether it was a good thing to
    do since they don't finish growing for such a long time.  Thanks.
    
    Marianne
    

    Here's my two cents worth:
    
    The first time I bred my mare was when she was six.  She was in
    training at the time and was being shown.  We had no problems.
    The trainer did try to keep her fairly quiet, only working her
    lightly, for about a month after they covered her.  Her filly
    showed up right on schedule the next spring...that was in 1985
    so we'll probably see you in the AHANE Futurity.
    
    The second time I bred her she came home after she was checked
    in foal.  I was riding her myself and doing some showing.  Again,
    her filly showed up right on time last spring.
    
    I don't think I would have bred her as a three-year-old for the
    same reasons other people have cited.  I just don't think she was
    mature and developed enough.  
    
    And, to take the discussion one step further, when she has a foal
    at her side, that becomes her career.  I do a little riding around
    the fields but she doesn't go to shows until the baby is weaned.
    

    It probable depends on what you want the mare to do after she has
    been bred and has produced a foal.  Arabs mature much later than
    some other light breeds.  Typically they don't completely stop growing
    until they are about five.  Physically you can begin breeding whenever
    the mare begins to ovulate, which varies but is generally around
    two years of age.  By age three, only subtle growth changes will
    take place and the ovulation process will have started.  The question
    you have to ask is if you intend to show in halter after the foal
    arrives, if you lost a class by a small margin, was it because of
    some small difference in size or muscle structure.  If you met all
    of the nutritional needs of the mare and foal maybe there wasn't
    a difference, but thats a big `if'.  There is also the issue of
    the stress of a show circuit on the mare in carrying a foal to term.
    If you show casually, there is little stress, but if you show out
    of a show barn, there is high stress.  I've bred mares that we have
    shown with no ill effects, I've also had mares that have concieved
    but not foaled (resorbed).  It depends on the horse, the stress,
    the diet, the phase of the moon, how many trucks passed the trailer,
    and etc.  The bottom line is figure out what is most important to
    you and work to that goal.  If you want to have a foal to play with
    more than anything and don't think the mare will be a Regional or
    National Halter champion, go for it.  By the way if you want a foal
    to make some extra money, forget the foal and put the money in a
    secure investment.  You'll come out way ahead.
    
    Regards,
    
    Bob
    

    I'm finding these replys interesting....I'm beginning to wonder
    if I should reconsider breeding her. I'm wondering...would there
    be any advantage to not breeding her as far as her training goes?
    Would breeding disrupt her training very much? Would it be better
    to have her just concentrate on her training since she is being
    broke to ride this year? I really would like to hear some opinions
    or ideas on the subject. Thanks, Nancy
    

    Lets start with a few questions:
    
    Why do you want to breed?
    
    Will you be breeding AI or natural?
    
    Is the stallion close or far from you?
    
    When will the stallion owner want the mare?
    
    What are the conditions of the breeding contract?
    (i.e. will the stallion owner want the mare to stay until the mare
    is checked in foal or longer)
    
    The reasons for these questions is to find out what the impact really
    will be on the mare.  For example, if you breed naturally, sometimes
    stallions can be very rough with mares, especially inexperienced
    ones.  Maiden mares are sometimes hard to breed because of culture
    problems, stress from being away from home, panic from seeing a
    snorting stallion for the first time etc.  Some stallion owners
    like to have mares stick around until they know that the mare has
    been checked in foal, and some would like the mare not to travel
    until after sixty days.  There is evidence that shipping before
    that time contributes significantly to early aborting.  I don't
    want to paint a `scare picture' since many of these things are rare
    (less than 5%) but you should understand the risk if you send your
    mare away expecting to get her back in foal in a week.
    
    Bob
    

    re: .7 - I guess the biggest question is (like Bob said) why do
    you want to breed the mare?  For profit (better off putting your
    money elsewhere), fun (it's fun to a point, then...), etc.
    
    If it's not crucial that your mare has a foal now, then you may
    be better off finishing your mare's training and start showing her
    to see if it's even worth breeding her.  It would be nice to know
    that judges think your mare is a good enough representation of the
    breed (or performs well under saddle) so that she has something
    worth passing on to a foal.
    
    My philosophy about breeding is that if you're planning to produce
    a foal that you want to sell, then make sure you're going to produce
    something that will improve the breed (or at least come close to the
    standard).  Those of us that are on the receiving end have too many
    'poor quality' horses (that are for sale) to look at, and the owners
    ask ridiculous prices for something just because it's registered (I've
    seen plenty of grade horses that have better conformation and
    temperment than some 'purebreds').
    
    If you plan to keep the foal forever (and you know you can never
    plan on something like this), then you really only have youself
    to please (but it would be worth your while to put the same time
    and care into selecting a stallion that really compliments your
    mare as you would if you were producing something to sell).
    
    It can only benefit you to not rush the breeding - enjoy showing
    your mare while you decide what you really want to do.  

    I MUST SAY THAT I AGREE WITH EVERYONES IDEAS....
    
    BOB'S,  THAT IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAKE $$$ ON THE FOAL, WELL PUT
    YOUR MONEY IN A GOOD SOUND PLACE WHERE YOU KNOW YOU WILL GET A RETURN.
    
    MY FEELING ON THIS IS THAT YOU SOUND LIKE YOU WOULD LIKE TO FINISH
    HER TRAINING AND HAVE A GOOD TIME WITH HER. IF I WAS IN YOUR SHOES
    (AND I HAVE BEEN) I WOULD FINISH HER TRAINING FOR NOW AND HAVE A
    GOOD TIME SHOWING HER AND WHAT EVER FOR NOW. 
    
    IF YOU ARE BREEDING HER BECAUSE YOU WANT TO KEEP THE FOAL FOR YOUR-
    SELF THEN GIVE YOUR SELF SOME TIME TO ENJOY HER RIGHT NOW. YOU CAN
    BREED A HEALTHY HORSE UP TILL THE ARE 14 YEARS OR SO OLD FOR THE
    FIRST TIME. 
    
    I TOO WANTED TO BREED MY MARES WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG. BUT I WAITED
    TILL THEY WERE 13 YEARS OLD. THEY HAVE BOTH BEEN HAVING NICE HEALTHY
    FOALS AND I HAD ALL THAT TIME TO ENJOY THEM AND NOT WORRY ABOUT
    THE FOALS.
    
    THE OTHER THING NOT ALL HORSES ARE THE SAME, AND OTHERS MAY BREED
    THEIR HORSE AND CONTINUE TO SHOE OR WHAT EVER AND HAVE NOT PROBLEMS
    BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL NOT. YOU WANT TO BE CAREFULL RIGHT
    AFTER BREEDING THE MARE AND AGAIN AROUND 190 DAYS OR SO. THEY CAN
    STILL SLIP THEIR FOALS UP TO 5 MONTHS OF PREGNANCY.
    
    WELL GOOD LUCK AND WHAT EVER YOU DESIDED YOU WILL BE HAPPY.
    
    TERRY

    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!
    
    I hear the note of experience coming through on selling foals for
    $$$. Sounds like everyone knows someone that's experienced difficult
    times...thinking they can make some money. I'm glad I asked this
    question, because I feel I've recieved some really sound advice.
    
    I now need to evaluate her "show potential". Can you help me with
    this also? How do you determine halter potential? Consider the 
    following:
    
    Pedigree
    Her Sire: Regional Res Champion Stallion
    Her Dam: Regional Champion Mare
            
    Show record
    Class A halter champion as a yearling.
    won $350 in a sweepstakes as a yearling.
    
    I purchased her as a 2 yr old and as part of the sales agreement
    she was to be shown at the AHANE and Deerfield fair shows at no
    cost to me. When she was being shown, she was not in show condition,
    in fact she was kinda FAT and she was not being trained. However, I 
    think she did fairly well. She Placed 2nd at AHANE and 5th at the 
    Deerfield fair.
    
    I just wonder what she could do if she was conditioned and trained
    for showing. I think she has the potential to do well. Am I wrong???
                                                                        
    Thanks, Nancy

    It sounds like she may have some potential based on her current
    show record.  In halter classes, pedigree doesn't get you much,
    it only gives you an indication that someone else in the family
    did well.  You probably should try to get a professional look at
    the mare when she is fit to give you an opinion.  By professional
    I mean someone who shows and is well accepted as a top quality trainer
    in halter.  I assume that you are in the Northeast if your mare
    showed at AHANE and Deerfield.  Names that come to mind are Bill
    Bohl, Rich Waller, Chip Cappobianco etc.  Don't ask for an opinion
    from someone who had anything to do with the sale, breeding, or
    promotion of this horse or any of its pedigree.
    
    You didn't mention whether you were planning to show the mare yourself.
    Without knowing anything about you or your abilities in this area,
    I can tell you that the chances of an Amatuer showing any halter
    horse to the Regional level are very slim.  Its a combination of
    politics, showmanship, training abilities, and knowing the judges
    to show under.  
    
    If you ask a trainer to evaluate your mare, also ask if they would
    consider taking the horse in training.  You don't have to commit
    yourself to them (no one is committed until money passes hands)
    but it is a good indicator of how much they really think about the
    mare.
    
    

    
    Bob, 
    
    Thank you for your advice. The filly is fit to look at now and I
    intend to take your advice. I am wondering...I have heard of all
    the trainers you mentioned, are they in the same league as Ray
    Lacroix? I realize that to be serious, I will have to play the
    politics. Can I expect Regional and National wins from those you
    mentioned. Can you tell me anything more about them? I would like
    to have her trained in the Northeast if possible and any help 
    you can give me, would be deeply appreciated!
    
    			Thanks, Nancy

    They are listed in order of their perceived success in the region
    (by me).  They have all had regional championship wins and I would
    consider each of them to be National level trainers.  Bill probably
    has had the most experience in National competition.  We use Rich
    Waller exclusively for our `hot prospects'.  For example look for
    DW Miss Perk (*Perkal x Louisfield Mist) in open English Pleasure
    and Informal Combination this year.  She is our current prospect.
    You may have some problems getting into their barns now since they
    have pretty much already selected their 1988 show strings.  You
    probably can get an opinion from them though.  I would personally
    recommend any of them.
    
    Regards,
    
    Bob