Conference noted::equitation

    This reply is in response to 118.4.  When I saw the word
    oats, and the word ponies, I thought I'd offer a suggestion.
    Depending on how much the ponies are going to be worked, 
    they should have a diet of hay and grain in proportion to
    the amount of work they do.  Oats tend to make horses and
    ponies 'hot' especially on a cool autumn day.  I'd suggest
    either a pelleted feed or sweet feed (either Blue Seal Trotter
    or Charger are good and are complete feeds).  Save the oats
    only if the ponies are really going to need the energy!
    Good Luck - (State Line has really good prices, and it may
    be worth your while to stop by and check it out)

    I just read your problem and some others in the CXO Horse Notes file.
    I just had to bring up a growing concern.  I operate a small boarding
    stable here in the Black Forest.  I've had tremendous luck over
    the last five years doing this.  My boarders come and go but I usually
    have 8 to 10 horses boarded at any given time, plus an additional
    2 of my own.  I take care of all these without help.  I have had
    NO serious injuries or illnesses.  My concern is the amount of grain
    that folks are feeding.  Most of my boarders are show horses and
    the owners work them almost daily.  I feed 2 to 6 lbs. of 4 Way
    per horse per day.  Six lbs for a horse being worked an hr. per
    day and 2 lbs. for a horse not being worked.  Given the experiences
    I've seen with owners over-graining their horses, I don't allow
    my boarders to supplement the grain ration unless they negotiate
    with me and we agree.  The single greatest cause of serious foot
    problems is over-graining, I believe.  The only time I feed more
    than 6 lbs. of grain is to a pregnant mare in the last 6 wks. of
    gestation.  Then I increase it to 8 lbs.  Just wanted to bring 
    this up because in all my readings in these horse files, I haven't
    come across this particular concern.

    RE: .3
    
    I don't agree with your philosophy of how much to feed (six lbs
    is enough for any horse).  You have to consider each animal as an
    individual and understand their metabolism, work, stresses,
    environment, etc.  For example, I have a stallion who is fed 11
    to 12 lbs a day during breeding season and well into the show season.
    In addition, I use suppliments when needed for different reasons.
    On the other hand I have a pregnant mare who gets four lbs and is
    doing just fine.  I've always believed it is more important what
    you feed than how much.
    
    I do agree with the way you run your boarding business as it relates
    to feed.  We only board as an adjunct to sales (i.e. all my boarded
    horses are ones that we sold to customers).  Even so I manage the
    feeding program as I do for my own horses.  While I will entertain
    inputs from the owners, I still have the final say.  Any disputes
    are settled by one of us moving out and I have yet to move away.
    The condition of the horses in your barn are a reflection on you,
    regardless of who is making the feeding decisions, so if you want
    to have control over what impressions you make on people, you have
    to run this way.  
    
    Bob
    
    

    re: .4
     I agree with you as in each horse has a different metabolism, work,
    etc. as I also have my horse boarded out in Black Forest. Watching
    the weight & additude of each horse is important in case you have
    to relate it to your boarders.
    It sounds like the horses are in shape anyway.
                                                               Steve
    
    
    
    
    

    
    
    	re: .4
    
    	I agree.....  I have had one horse that I fed 12 lbs a day that
    	did nothing....   I have one now that in the summer, does 35
    	to 40 miles a week and he only gets 6 lbs (and some folks tell
    	me that he is alittle on the heavy side...)
    
    	Susan

    
    Hi!
    
    My aged quarter horse mare gets 6 quarts of pellets (2 qts, 3 times
    a day) and 4-5 flakes of hay (2 flakes, 2 times a day). She is about
    16 hands, 1100 pounds and VERY fit. She works 35-60 minutes four
    times a week (under saddle) and jumps during our 1 hour lesson once
    a week. She is considered a very easy keeper and will gain weight
    if we don't watch it. In the warmer weather, her pellet ration goes
    up. Twice a week the barn feeds a warm bran mash instead of pellets
    for dinner. (You should hear 12 horses slurpping down mash at the
    same time!) If the weather is really cold, like two weeks ago, they
    feed barn mashes more often. 
    
    There have been several discussions on feeding in the notes file,
    so look around. Some people like feeding only hay, other grains
    and a varity of supplements. My mare does get supplements, but I
    don't keep really close track - the luxury of paying someone else
    to decide those things.
    
    Good luck
    
    	Nancy
    

    We have found that it depends on the horse as far as the quantity
    goes.  We have some (around 1000 pounds) that live on 3 lbs of pellets
    and 1/2 pound of sweet crimped oats with free choice hay (she is
    a broodmare who is out all day)....while we have a couple who weight
    less and eat twice that amount with no exercise and three times
    with exercise.  One mare who weighs about 900 and was worked 60
    minutes a day (stock horse) received no grain with alfalfa cubes
    only.
    
    In my opinion you need to be sure that the horse is getting the
    right nutrients/supplements and the quantity depends on their 
    metabolism (KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON THEM).
    
    Good luck...
    

    One thing you may want to keep an eye on with the Alfalfa cubes
    is that the horse doesn't get bored (from not having a lot of food
    in front of him to eat) and start developing bad habits
    (ie. cribbing, windsucking, etc.)  The cubes don't take as long
    for the horse to eat, whereas hay takes them a while to chew and
    finish - remember that, as grazing animals, they are used to eating
    almost continually throughout the day.  If they are only being used
    to supplement the hay, this may not be a problem (and if your horse
    is turned out during the day, that's even better).
    
    There is a note (#217) on supplements - you might want to take a
    look at it.  The amount of feed your gelding requires depends on
    his metabolism.  Some horses that are the same age and size and
    that are being worked the same amount require different amounts
    of feed.  For example, I know of a 16.2 gelding (approx 1,100 lbs) 
    who gets about 8 lbs of strider pellets & 6-8 flakes of good quality 
    hay/day when he's being worked an ave. of 45 min/day, 6 days/week.  
    Another horse in the same barn who is the same height and weight, 
    requires around 12 lbs of grain/day on the same work schedule, and
    when he's not being worked at all he needs about 10 lbs/day just
    to keep his weight up.  
    
    You should be able to feel the horse's ribs under the skin, you
    don't necessarily have to see them, but you don't want a heavy layer
    of fat on them either.  If your horse seems to be putting on weight
    with his current work schedule, cut his daily grain ration by about
    1 lb and see how he does for the next week or so.  
    very different diets

    Have you always fed her just crimped oats?  It sounds to me like
    she needs to have something else along with the oats.  My 3 year
    old, who I raised from a foal and is now in training only eats
    4 quarts per day at the most, half pacer and half crimped oats.
    All horses are different of course, but even as a foal she never
    ate much grain and always stayed fat and healthy.  I also believe
    in giving a horse something to do during the day, so I feed a lot 
    of hay, and my hay is top quality so I am sure this helps.
    
    I agree with Sherry on the vet, my vet is a harness horse vet, he
    grew with them, owns and trains them, and knows exactly what I am
    talking about when I describe either what is wrong with the horse
    or what I am doing with her training.  I wouldn't switch vets for 
    anything.  I think you should ask around to some of your TWH friends 
    and find out who they use for a vet and hopefully you can find 
    someone familiar with the breed.  

    Every horse's metabolism is different -- what makes one horse fat as a
    pig may only sustain another.  10 quarts of plain oats is not
    necessarily all that much.  You may want to add in a higher protein
    grain mix, such as tiz wiz or a 12% sweet feed.  
    
    How much hay does she get?  Does she clean it up? Is she bony? 
    Do her ribs stick out or do you really have to press down to find them?
    Does her backbone stick out?  Is her neck real thin?  Do her hips stick
    out?  Or is it some combination of the above?
    
    I ask because my horse, when not really muscled up, can look thin due 
    to his wide hips that stick out, but so long as he has a decent layer of 
    fat over his ribs and his neck doesn't get thin, I know he's fine.
    
    Mary

    
    
    	Would a blood test show what she is missing.. 
    
    	What shelly looks like.. She is about 16.5 hands
    	and is 4 years old .. she still growing, and should
    	run about 17 hands when finished.. 
    
    	Any way.. 
    
    	She is about 1100 pds.. she's not ribby.. but her
    	back bone protrudes.. She has huge hips - with two
    	points on each side.
    
    	I like to see horses as round as apples. - 
    
    	There should be away you can find out exactly what a horse
    	needs before spending all kind of money tring to find out 
    	what works.
    
    	The vet who did the work on max told the new owner to 
    	give her trotter plus, the crimped oats.. 
    
    	They get 2 to 3 flakes per feeding.. 
    
    	Would getting blood work help?

    I suggest adding a 14% pellet to her feed to go along with
    the crimped oats.  
    
    L

    
    What about her teeth?  don't babies at some young age get their 
    teeth floated........
    
    N

    At that age and size, 10 quarts of oats is not a huge amount.  As I
    recall, oats only weight about 3/4 pound per quart, so she's only
    getting 7 3/4 pounds.
    
    If her backbone sticks out then yes, she is underweight.  You could add
    12 or 14% pellet or sweet feed and also possibly replace some of the oats
    with feed.
    
    Increase the grain slowly.  What I usually do is increase by 1/2 quart
    and wait a couple weeks to see the effects.  You can get "weight
    tapes" at feedstores sometimes, that will give you something to check
    against.  If you don't find a difference after a couple weeks, add
    another 1/2 quart and again, give it a couple of weeks.  Sometimes it
    takes time to kick in and sometimes it takes a lot of grain to get them
    gaining, after which you can cut back a little so they don't gain too
    fast.  
    
    For some reason, 25-30 pounds/month sticks in my head as safe.  Anybody
    else know anything about that? 
    
    Assuming you hay twice/day, a couple more flakes per day -- or even
    "free hay" -- wouldn't hurt. My 15 hand arab vacuums up 5 flakes per day 
    plus gets 4 hours of pasture.  Hay you can increase as much as you want 
    immediately without any negative health effects.
    

    This topic has drifted a very long way from a fluttery heartbeat!
    But, here's my $0.02...
    
    Corn(maize to our UK/Irish noters) is one of the best grains to use in 
    putting weight on a horse. Corn is often overlooked by everybody except 
    competitve trail and endurance riders. Corn is very calorie dense because 
    it has a high fat content compared to other grains so you get more energy 
    per pound of corn. That's why corn gets/has a reputation of being a
    "hot" feed. People feed it at the same number of pounds or scoops per
    day as oats. And then they wonder why the horse has tons more energy...
    
    It's best to used cracked or rolled corn because it's easier for the
    horse to chew and digest that way.
    
    John

    
    
    	She had her wolf's teeth pulled about 4 month ago.. 
    
    	She has put on weight since then so I know that was bothering her.
    
    	My husband ask me a question about 12 to 14% portien.  
    	I really couldn't answer him - what does protein give a horse.
    
    	Donna

    
    
    Shelly is a very nervous horse to begin with, corn would put
    her on the roof of the barn ... I could introduce some, but
    it couldn't be her main suppliment.
    
    Most of the time hay is left behind so i know there getting plenty.
    
    I usally give corn in the winter since they are outside most of the
    time.. 
    
    	questions questions questions	
    

    Protein is the main building block of all tissues.  I believe plain
    oats are something like 8% protein and am certain it is no more than
    10%, so that is a bit low, especially for a growing youngster.
    
    FWIW, I'm not sure that corn makes horses "hotter" in terms of energy. 
    Fat takes longer to metabolize and is more likely to be stored as fat. 
    Therefore, it is more inclined to put on some body fat.  Once stored as
    body fat, it takes a long time to convert to energy.  It's a heating 
    grain in that it gives a slow, steady supply of energy and adds body 
    fat which insulates against cold weather.  That's why it's always been 
    popular to feed in the winter.
    
    In fact, according to an old nutrition book that I have, if it weren't
    for the concentration, it would be an ideal horse feed.  Word of
    warning, though.  Because it is such a concentrated feed (as I recall,
    it weighs about 1 1/2 pounds per quart) you should not feed corn by
    itself.  It shouldn't exceed 1/3 or so of the horse's total grain.  Mix
    it well with oats in ratios of 2 or, even better, 3 to 1.
    

    re .-1
    
    Yes, 10% protein is low for a growing horse.  
    
    Donna, if I were you, I would look at the literature available from 
    your feed dealer that explains the different purposes for the various 
    varieties of feed they carry.  When I was raising youngsters, I found 
    that using a high enough protein feed made an enormous difference.  Also, 
    with a couple that had trouble keeping weight on, I found that adding 
    some corn oil to their feed seemed to help.  As for feeds, I had very 
    good results from Purina Horse Chow 300 and Omolene 300.  In fact, I 
    once "rescued" a starving horse (two different ones, not that I think 
    of it) and the vet recommended Omolene 300 as being very good at putting 
    weight on a horse.  And he was right...
    
    Do you buy your feed at Agway in Chelmsford?  I know they have booklets
    available.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Do you get your feed at Agway in Chelmsford?

    Cracked corn is at a good price now, about $10 for a 100 lb
    bag.  My vet has used corn to bring back starved horses with
    excellent results.
    He has also worked with me in getting serious excess weight off
    of a horse I have.  I used calf manna (25% protein) as a feed
    substitute along with hay to keep the protein and vit/mins up,
    but to cut out the calories.  He lost the weight, safely and healthily.  
    
    BTW, Oats have 11% protein.  
    
    You need to feed a balanced ration/diet.  The 14% pellet is usually
    touted as a complete feed, that is, it can be fed without hay as
    a supplement.
    
    You could use a 12% sweetfeed plus a 14% pellet mix, or a 14% sweet
    feed, and the hay, and do well.
    
    If you are worried about her bouncing off the walls, then a 12% sweet
    feed plus 14% pellets would be good.....(plus hay, of course....)
    
     Lynne

I have copied a reply from note #1669 that asks about feeding.  The next
several replies are answers to the original question.  Please concentrate
on the feed aspect of the reply.

Ed..
moderator


        <<< NOTED::DISK$NOTES1:[NOTES$LIBRARY_1OF5]EQUITATION.NOTE;3 >>>
                          -< Equine Notes Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1669.7                   Heart beat- Vet check                      7 of 19
BRAT::FULTZ "DONNA FULTZ"                            19 lines  23-OCT-1992 08:51
                                    -< Vet >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    	She asked up front if he knew how to vet a gaited horse.
    
    	I really want to feel great about the horse.  She is so 
    	special.. 
    
    	Another thing.. 
    
    	The vet wanted to know what she was getting for grain, I told
    	him she was getting 10 qts of crimped oats with a vitamin
        suppliment every day.  (he could'nt believe it) she was about
    	100 pds to thin.    He checked for worms and she had none.. 
    
    	Shelly our other walker has the same problem.. but, Lady
    	is a blimp.
    
    	Is there somthing I can have the vet check to see if she
    	is low on anything????

        <<< NOTED::DISK$NOTES1:[NOTES$LIBRARY_1OF5]EQUITATION.NOTE;3 >>>
                          -< Equine Notes Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1669.10                  Heart beat- Vet check                     10 of 20
ESCROW::ROBERTS                                      18 lines  23-OCT-1992 09:46
                        -< "Gaited" has  >1 definition >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re .7
    
    If she asked about vetting gaited horses, instead of specifically
    saying a Tennesee Walker, this could have started the misunderstanding. 
    Many people think of Saddlebreds, or other horses trained for
    saddleseat riding.  I'm not saying this is correct, and the vet should
    perhaps asked for a better explanation of what your buyer meant by
    "gaited", since it means different things to different people.
    
    As for the weight, if you are feeding crimped oats, keep in mind that a
    "scoop" of crimped oats weighs much less than a "scoop" of sweet feed
    or pellets.  My scoop, for instance, holds two pounds of pellets, but
    the same scoop full of crimped oats would probably weigh only about 1
    pound.  So if you are counting by scoops, your horse may not be getting
    as many pounds of grain as you think.  (Perhaps you already know this,
    but it's easy to forget...)
    
    -ellie

    Although many pellets are "complete" feeds, horses still need hay. 
    Pellets don't give them the bulk they need to keep their guts
    full and working properly.  
    
    The amount of protein in a pellet doesn't determine whether or not 
    it's a complete feed -- the contents do.  A complete feed pellet 
    includes some portion of hay or roughage products.  For example, my 
    horse gets Purina horse chow 100 -- it's a complete feed pellet, 10% 
    protein, with 60% grain and 40% roughage.
    
    Mary

    I suppose everyone has a different theory or opinion, we've gone by
    what we were told by someone (vet, feed person???) years back when
    trying to get weight on an older horse.  They recommended BS Strider
    at 11% protein because they claimed the higher protein levels require
    more energy from the horse to digest it, hence less energy available
    for adding weight.  Maybe it's a load of bull, but it worked.
    
    We also feed hay before grain on the basis that grain passes through
    faster than hay, and the horse may not get all the nutrients from the 
    grain, where as hay takes much longer to digest - so it keeps the grain
    in the system longer.  Again it could be a load of bull.  Who knows, it 
    works for us.
    
    We also add supplements, Source and Calfmanna/Sunshine pellets.
    
    We were advised against feeding corn in the winter because it increases
    the chances of colic due to it's bulkiness and low moisture content.  
    
    The above plan is for a mature horse, I know the youngsters require
    a higher protein level (but too much causes some sort of leg problem).
    
    Good luck!
    
    Michele
    
    
    p.s.
    
    Try telling an overweight Fjord that she really dosen't need any grain
    when everyone else gets it.

    With everyone touting the value and types of grain here I hate to butt
    in and mention hay.  Really good green high quality leafy hay is great
    for putting on weight and not making a horse hot.  It's also recently
    touted as what keeps a horse warm in the winter, not grain.  Just the
    fact that the hay is left uneatten makes me suspect the quality of it. 
    It may be ok (not moldy or dusty) but it's probably not GREAT hay.
    
    Feeding real good hay can Save a Lot of $$$ not having to make it up 
    with grain.  In New England the price doesn't seem to have much to do
    with the quality, you can pay a lot for junk or a little for great
    hay.
    
    Sharon

    A lot of people I know swear by hay as well. Im sure it depends on the
    individual horse, but when we briefly boarded at 16.1 hand lanky TB
    gelding at a place that fed him tons of hay and little grain, his
    weight dropped dramatically. I brought him home to my house from there,
    began feeding him 10 qts of grain daily (5 Trotter/5 Charger), included
    and endless supply of hay at all times, and supplemented him with
    Ration Plus.....his weight went right back up almost as fast as he'd
    lost it. My brother kept asking the people to please give him at least
    8 qts grain daily, but they refused, saying the hay would put weight on
    him.....fortuneatly he didn't stay there long. :-) 
    
    Its quite possible the hay he was getting was not the best possible
    quality, certainly I have had a hard time around the NH area finding
    incredibly great stuff that I would consider adequate nutrition-wise
    to sustain them properly.
    
    On the other hand, my friend has a 15.2 hh Standardbred gelding who
    is enormously fat and eats only 6 qts grain daily (and Id cut *that*
    down personally, he's a whale!), plus free choice hay......I have
    little doubt he'd maintain his weight just fine on superb quality hay
    alone. 
    

re: cracked corn

	An alternative is steamed, flaked corn... 

    Actually, it is recommended that you have each load of hay that
    you get tested for protein content.  Hay that looks absolutely
    beautiful, i.e. green, well dried, clean, smells good, can actually
    be of very poor nutritional value.  Poor soil grows poor grass, but
    it can still grow green....
    
    L

    Yes, I've thought of doing this, but I heard that it takes 2 - 3 weeks
    to get the results of such an analysis.  By that time, most of my hay
    would have been gone.  I wonder, too, how you pick a representative bale? 
    Course, now that I have my own fields, I might consider doing this,
    maybe analyzing several samples from different fields.  Anybody know
    where to get this sort of analysis?
    
    -ellie

    Re Hay analysis - call your county agent. They should be able to tell
    you where to get hay analysed. In lots of places they even provide the
    service through the local state univ.
    
    Re feeding hay versus grain for weight gain. Yeah, every horse is
    different and the sort of diet that is right to KEEP weight on may not be
    the right choice to PUT weight back on a horse that lost some. 
    
    For example, our gelding(Ben) who fractured his coffin bone last
    year(He's fin now BTW)... The vet recommended that we keep him from
    gaining weight while he was recuperating. So, we didn't increase his
    feed much last winter. His "standard" diet is about 25 pounds of top
    quality timothy hay a day plus about 1.5 quarts of a grain & bran mash
    with 2-3 hours of grass. He's an easy keeper and stays a bit on the chubby 
    side on that diet. He was already about 50-75 pounds heavier than I 
    really wanted him so I didn't worry when he lost about 125 pounds over
    the winter. When the vet declared him fit for riding last spring, I tried 
    to put weight on him by increasing his hay to 35 pounds a day. He gained 
    but VERY slowly. After we had the vet give him a quick health check(teeth, 
    worms, etc), we increased his grain by 1 quart a day and he started to put 
    on weight. I told ya he was an easy keeper!

    Hi John --
    
    Calling the county agent used to be an option before the cuts by the
    Federal government over the past decade.  I they are a "skeleton" crew
    at best in these times.  Last time I tried (2 years ago?) the agent in
    question had ceased to exist.
    
    -ellie

    Give Jay Mele a call.  He was the one I had the hay testing talk
    with, and I'm sure he will tell you who does their testing.....
    
    L

    re .-1
    
    Can't do that unless you tell me his phone number, and possibly who and
    where he is????

    
    
    	Hay,  
    	
    	Most of the time she does finish it and lately we got
    	hay from TOP of the HILL farm which has alot of timothy in
    	it. 
    
    	?  How do you free feed hay.. ?
    	
    	Though them a bale ?
    
    	I don't think it's the hay lady is a whale.. (she mostly gets hay)
    
    	My trainer suggested Soy bean meal... (anyone try that)?

    Donna, 
    
    What have you already tried in your efforts to get this horse to gain
    weight?  What different feeds have you already tried?  Have you tried
    increasing the grain?  As mentioned before ( by Mary, I think?), 10
    quarts of crimped oats is not a lot of grain for a growing horse the
    size of yours.  A "rule of thumb" I've seen is to allow 2 - 2.5 lbs of
    feed per 100 lbs of body weight per day.  You've mentioned that your
    horse weighs 1100 lbs.  This would mean that your horse should be
    getting between 22 and 27.5 lbs of feed per day.  And this rule of
    thumb is for a mature horse.  If your horse is getting 10 quarts of
    crimped oats, this probably comes out to about 6 - 7 lbs, which would
    mean you would have to make up the rest with about 20 lbs of hay.  This
    ratio, though, would probably end up to be too low protein (figuring 7 
    lbs of oats at 10% and 20 lbs of hay at 6% comes out to about 7% protein
    overall).
    
    Has the horse just recently lost weight?  I could be that it's just a
    growth spurt, which happend with growing horses.  They all of a sudden
    get a bit taller and longer, and the weight just has to catch up.  
               

    
    	She was really skinny when we first got her, but she has
    	put on weight since we have had her about 300 pds.. id say
    
    	We pulled her wolf teeth she started to put on weight, but
    	has not pugged out yet.. I don't want to experiment with foods
    	I really want to know what she needs...
    
    	I called the vet and he said blood work would help to see
    	what she is missing.. 
    
    	I am going to increase her portien by the soy meal and see if
    	that helps. and they will start to corn in next couple of 
    	weeks.. 
    
    	Donna

on the advice of our vet.

It does add the weight, but we were warned by him that this weight is hard to
get off once on.  You might ask your own vet about this before you start
feeding it to your pony(ies).

We really like it.  It doesn't make him 'hot', although he has never had this
problem anyway.

His weight problem was due to his 'nerves' at competitions.  We really started
feeding him soy bean meal to keep his weight consistent, to smooth out his
'highs and lows'.

We feed him about a cup two times a day mixed in his grain, and we only add
it before/during/after competitions or when he looks like he needs it.  Soy
bean meal isn't like grain that you need to increase/decrease gradually.

This is only a 15.0 Arab gelding, BTW, but he does get his butt worked off.


					-Reedy

    
    
    	Something that my vet told us:  Don't bother feeding more than 4 
    	lbs of grain a serving, it just gets wasted.
    
    	M

    
    
    
    	Question.
    
    
    	Does any one know if if bran is bad for a horse?
    
    	

    
    Bran is good for horses.....
    
    High fiber, 6% protein.  It is what most vets recommend when
    a horse is recovering from a bout of colic., a few days of
    bran mash meals...
    
    However, as you can see, the nutritional value (6% protein)
    is minimal, so it is not to be fed exclusively over a long period.

    I have always fed my horses a bran mash at least once a week,
    sometimes more if its extremely hot or cold.  I also feed it
    after they have had a hard training trip or when they get back
    from racing.  Knock on wood, none of my horses that have been
    fed this way have ever had colic!          

    
    
    
    	That's what I thought, I have never had any colic (knock on wood)
    
    	I increase the amount in the summer about 1/4 cup to 5 quarts of grain.
    
    	But,  a girl at the barn said it was bad, so I wanted to check.
    
    	My horses have the shinniest coats, they also get a mineral
    supplement, (pemwood).
    
    	Thanks.. 
    	
    

    
    Actually, we feed a daily bran mash(water, bran, oats, sweet feed, chopped
    carrots and mineral supplements) 9 or 10 months of the year. We have been 
    doing that for at least 5 years and have had no problems.
    
    However, there are 2 cautions I have heard about bran. Both are fairly 
    minor.
    
    	1) It absorbs water. So, you should mix your mash with enough water
    to wet all the bran and let it stand for 5 minutes before feeding. If
    large amounts of bran are fed dry, it can cause constipation and
    compaction type colic.
    
    	2) Like all grains and grain by-products, it is high in phosphorous 
    and low in calcium. If fed in large quantities for a long period of
    time, it can cause a mineral imbalance *IF* you don't provide enough
    calcium in other feeds/supplements to balance out the phosphorous

    I had my thinking changed about feeding bran a few months back while
    reading an Equus article on the subject.  Basically the article
    describes the effects of bran on the intestinal system and suggests
    that small daily feedings of bran will not induce the laxative effect
    you are feeding for.  Infrequent feedings of large quantities do put
    the system on overload and can be laxative, but you have to calculate
    in the added concentrate (I'm boarding a chow hound that colics and gains
    easily - so we feed him a small amount only once a week).  The
    recommendation for preventing colic is: water.  Lots of it.  Keep the
    buckets/troughs crystal clean and the fresh water available at all
    times.  So far (knock on particleboard) no colic.