Conference noted::equitation

    	Hi there..
    
    	Walkers are almost "the" horse on the Cross State Trail Ride
    	here in New England.  I see more and more each year.  Seems
    	like the folks that own the Walkers let others try 'em and
    	"ZAP" they are hooked.  I can see why trail folks like them.
    	VERY easy ride... and when they get "Walkin'" they MOVE!  My
    	Appy has a long, fast walk - but when the Walkers pass us -
    	it is like we are standing still!!  I have never seen them do
    	much more than walk... at that point as I said we got lost in
    	the dust.
    
    	I guess the one of the things that you may want to look out
    	for is the fact that there is alot of them that are very "HOT"
    	and I know that isn't a type of horse you may want... or you
    	may if you are going to show....
    
    	I will try to send you some names of folks that sell them and/or
    	know of someone that does....  These folks are in the New England
    	and New York area.
    
    	Susan

    I happen to have a Tennessee Walker/Quarter horse. There's nothing
    like them when it comes to trails. Jasper and I would always have
    to wait for the rest of the group to catch up with us.
    The Tennessee Walk is such a fluid walk you don't realize how much
    ground you've covered!
    The only bad thing I would have to say,( and I don't know if this
    is true of the breed, or it's just Jasper's temperment), is that
    Jasper is quite high-strung. Heaven forbid something is out of the
    ordinary. Needless to say, it can be an experience out on trail
    especially if we meet some cows!
    How are other Tennessee Walker's temperments?
    				Cindy
    

    
    
    re .1  -  I would love any information you could send me! When
    	      I was showing (in N.E.) it seemed as though there were
    	      only a handful of Walkers competing against each other
    	      all the time.
    
    
    re .2  -  The horse I was working with was the 1981 or 82 nat'l
    	      champion - obviously a *good* horse, but I swear she
    	      was the *dumbest* horse I ever met. She even mowed me
    	      down once without looking back! (Did I hit something??)
    	      I think it was partly because she was only about seven
    	      years old. The only time she paid attention to anything
    	      was when she was being worked in the ring. :-)
    

    
    	Hi again.
    
    	I got an address of a person I know, she is a Harness & Tack
    	maker she has Walkers too.
    
    	Judy Parry - Foster Road, Verona, New York  13478
    	(315)363-6173
    
    	Now, I don't know if she also sells them but one time I called
    	her home and the person that answered said she was in Verginia
    	picking up some Walkers.
    
    	I DO know she is VERY helpful and will be able to get you in
    	touch with someone that can help you.
    
    	Susan

    HI NOTERS!
    I just traded a 15 month old TB/QH filly for an 8 yr old Walking
    horse mare. Anyone out there into Walkers? These horses are unusual
    because the do not trot, instead they do a running walk. Thier canter
    is also verry smooth.

    Do you mean Tennessee Walkers?? 
    			Cindy
    

    YES I mean Tennessee Walkers except since 1979 there are 2 registries.
    The original group Tennessee Walking Horse Exhibiters and Breeders
    and the new group known as the International Walking Horse Registry.
    Mine is registered with the newer group though her parents were
    registered with the first group. Both are trying to improve the
    image of the walking horse because of all the abuses this breed
    has suffered in past. Mine has never worn weighted shoes or built
    up pads or chains about the ankles which are considered ordinary
    by some walking horse trainers and show people.
    

    Well, Jasper is part Tennessee Walker. In fact, when we go out on
    trail sometimes he'll go into his "WALK". Boy, can that eat miles!
    
    I've trained him to do a flat footed walk since I ride english and
    will sometimes go in hunter classes.
    I don't know if it's the breed, but I have always found him willing
    (most of the times) and he will try his best. Good luck with your
    horse!
    			Cindy
    

    
    	A long time ago I entered a note asking about Walkers, but
    	there didn't seem to be anyone out there who had one...I
    	used to show one for a barn in Grafton. Right now I don't have
    	room for a horse, but as soon as I do, I'm going to get a 
    	Walker. 
    
    	I'd be interested to know your horse's name/breeding, where
    	did you buy it and from who, etc?? 
    
    	Sherry
    

    re .4
     When you said Grafton, did you mean Grafton Ma? I used to board at
    Eagle Rock and in fact bought my horse, Jasper from them. ( I think
    they were happy to sell him to me since they were using him for a trail
    horse for a month or two and he started throwing his riders off! Not 
    good for business!)
    			Cindy
    
    

    
    	Yes, Grafton, Ma. You recommended me to Bonnie at Eagle Rock
    	last year, remember? This horse was at Grafton School, though.
    
    	Sherry
    

    Oops. Old age must be catching up to me!
    			Cindy
    

    REF 750.4
    My walker has Midnight Sun as her great-great grandfather on both
    her sire and dam. She also has Merry Go Boy on her sire's lineage.
    Her dam also has Allen bloodlines. She is a dark bay with a small
    star and one white sock on her left hind leg. Her name is
    Summersock'80. Not very imaginative! She was born in Troy, Michigan
    and brought to Pennsylvania by her 3rd owners whom I traded a TB/QH
    filly for her. I live near Pittsburgh, PA.
    
    Sandy
    

    
    	WOW!! The horse I rode had Midnight Sun as either her 
    	father or grandfather. (I think father). Her mother was
    	Goldie something-or-other, and her name was Leffler's
    	Golden Sun.  So, they're related!! Sunshine was a bright
    	chestnut w/white socks and stripe. 
    
    	Thanks to Michele Peluso, I've found someone who has a TW
    	that I'm going to try to go take a look at (and maybe buy, if 
    	I think I *really* want to be *completely* poverty-stricken...)
                                                  
    	

    If my memory serves me correctly Midnight Sun was Grand Champion
    in 1935 and 1936. He stood at stud for 20 years. Unless Sunshine
    is very old or this was a long time ago Midnight Sun was likely
    to be her grandfather. Sounds like Sunshine was very pretty horse.
    Good luck on your search for a walker and poverty! From what I have
    learned thru the notes file, board in MASS will definately make
    you poor. Board around here starts at around $135 for full board
    no turnout, to $250 for full care, turnout, indoor arena and on
    farm training available. I don't know of anywhere that charges more
    than $250 a month.

    
    	Since Sunshine is now about 12-14, that sounds more probable.
    	She was New England and Nat'l champion in 1982.(if I remember
    	right). 
    
    	 

    RE .10 I hate to inform you but depending upon where in MASS, board
    will be higher than $235 especially wth an indoor ring. Where I used
    to board (Eagle Rock Stable, Grafton), board was $195 and no indoor
    ring. The place I board Jasper now, is at $210 (indoor ring) but that's
    in Phillipston (just west of Gardner).
    
    As far as the most expensive, check out AEI (American Equine Institute)
    in Medway (Rt. 126). Full board with a small attached turnout -
    $450/month. That was more than I paid in rent at the time!
    Of course the facilities were top of the line - huge (and I mean huge)
    indoor ring with a 2nd floor viewing balcony. 
    Check it out just for the heck of it.
    		Cindy
    

    It would be a little tough for me to check out any stable in MASS
    as its about 12 hour drive away. This discussion makes me all the
    more thankful that I have my own place for the "kids". Each of my
    stalls open directly into individual pastures of at least 1 acre
    apiece. Summersock and her brother and sister (adopted) can come
    and go as they please unless their being ridden or their stall is
    being cleaned.
    
    Lucky in PA,
    Sandy
    

		I thought this would be a good place to put this
	note - introducing my Tennessee Walking Horse!!!

		Dakota is an 11 yr old, 17h gelding. He is chestnut
	with four white socks, a star and a snip (plus about a half-
	dozen white `freckles' here and there...). For a Walker, he 
	is definitely NOT hyper, in fact, he was a doll when we went 
	to get him saturday morning. He walked right into the trailer,
	didn't bat an eyelash, and when we got him to the stable he
	just went out into his field and started to investigate. He's
	already made a few friends, and seems very happy in his new
	home. 

    		Right now, he's going to be used mainly for trail 
    	riding, but I'm hoping to work on him and possibly show him
    	in Western Pleasure next year. So, wish me luck!!
    
    	
    	Sherry
    
    

    Sounds pretty flashy!! I have found Walkers to not be nearly as
    hyper as you expect watching them move. Overall they are a very
    sensible breed with some of the neatest personalitys I have ever
    met. Mine is traffic safe and very gentle but she taught me right
    from the start that she has a mind of her own and its up to me to
    convince her what I want to do is what she wants to do! They tend
    to approach new things with a wait and see attitude, instead of
    a run for you life, attitude.
    17 hands is big even for a Tenn. Walker, What kind of bloodlines
    does he have? My mare is only 14.3 but she is about as small as
    they come.
    
    Sandy
    

    
    		Well, if I can get on him w/out a tree stump, 
    	he can't be ALL that huge!! I think about 3" is just
    	withers...He definitely does have a mind of his own, and
    	boy is he strong!! He almost yanked my arm out trying 
    	to explore his new home...
    
    	Sherry
    	
    	

    I just bought a walker he is 4 years old and 14.3 hands. He is all
    black with a white star.  The barn where I board is all walkers so I
    have all kinds of experts to go to for advice. I just bought a book
    called 'The care and training of the Tennesse Walking Horse' by Joe
    Webb.
    
    My new baby is very nervous when you work around him on the ground but
    once you climb on his back he is very calm. For his bit I am using a
    short shank sliding mouthpiece bit with a medium port. Since he is so
    calm when ridden I am thinking about switching to a less sever bit.
    
    Before I owned Starbuck I owned a thoroughbred the differences in the 
    ride is very amazing. So far I am really converted to the walkers.
    
    Mary Ann

    Welcome to walkers! I found with mine that it took about six months for 
    her to "bond" with me. They are normally very friendly horses but get
    quite nervous if abused in any way. I have had mine for almost two
    years now, and she now is friendly to strangers also. 14.3 is small for
    a walker, I thought I had the only one that small! I ride mine with an
    eggbut snaffle, but a shank bit is required to show as a walker. I
    would love to know what bloodlines yours is. Midnight Mack K is known
    as one of the hotter bloodlines around here (Pittsburgh,PA), but I love
    my little girl.
    Sandy
    

    
    	I can second what Sandy says...it took months before I was
    	able to touch Ebony's ears...I have no idea what made him hate
    	that, could've been anything, but I know he was used field
    	trial...He's very possessive of me, and friendly to everyone
    	at the same time. He loves to snuffle the cat if you hold it up
    	to him...He's 15.1 and (can you guess?) all black. 
    
    	I use the show-type bit - 8" shanks, fixed medium port. We 
    	tried a Tom Thumb; he'll go on it, but he doesn't stop so good...
    	:) What kind of shoes are you going to have on him?? It's
    	great to see another Walker owner here, Sandy and I always have
    	something to ask each other about...! (too bad we all live so far
    	apart...)
    
    	Sherry
      

    Are there any Walker owners in NH?  I live near Manchester and would
    like to investigate a Walker for pleasure trail riding and competitive
    trail riding.  From what I've read, they would make the miles pretty
    comfortable.
    
    Tina

    I don't know the name of the shoes that he is wearing, my barn uses
    a blacksmith that knows walkers and I let him put on what he think is
    best.
    
    A walker for pleasure trailing riding is great. A walker walks alot
    faster then other breeds of horses, my old horse would have to trot or
    cantor to keep up with a walking walker. On a trail ride you can't beat
    a walker racking, if their rack is smooth the ride is unbelievable.
    All of the walkers that I have meet are very brave and I'm sure that
    they would be the best at a competitive trail ride.
    
    Mary Ann

    
    
    	Mary Ann...just to clarify, the rack is different than the
    	running walk. Rack is a lateral four beat gait (not allowed
    	in shows, the head will also move side to side at this gait,
    	not up and down as required). The running walk is a diagonal
    	four beat gait...
    
    	Sherry
    

    Hi 
    
    It all depends on the show. In Tennesse at the Walker Celebration they
    have events that require this gait.  There are some show in NC that
    have events in racking.  Not all of the shows have the racking
    competitions. I know someone that is trying to get this event added
    to one of the shows close to our barn.
    
    MAW

    This now explains why I have been seeing Walkers advertised for sale
    that are listed as double-registered as Racking horses. A new trend
    I suppose...
    Sandy
    

    
    
    	Sandy, wouldn't racking indicate an imbalance of some
    	sort that could (theoretically) be corrected with proper
    	shoeing? For instance, Ebony does a true running walk, 
    	but he can be choppy. So my farrier put toe-weight shoes
    	on him which did even him out....
    
    	Sherry
    

    Racking is a lateral gait that is similar, but not the same as a
    running walk. The sequence of the legs hitting the ground creates a
    snycopated gait with four beats. The ride is smooth to the rider, but
    it is more difficult for a laterally moving horse to do circles. The
    back moves side to side, instead of lifting each corner of the horse
    separately. This is also why a racking horse will tend to swing its
    head side to side. My own walker is being encouraged to trot, not only
    to make her more versital for ordinary horse classes, but to develope
    the muscles needed for a smooth running walk. She was raced as a pacer
    and racking comes naturally to her, but good balance does not. So with
    the help of a good Dressage instructor, and never-ending 20 meter
    circles, her balance is greatly improving.
    

Hi folks,

As some of you may be aware, my wife and I have a new Walker, named Lady.  My 
wife doesn't like the mare's name, but probably won't change it.  With the
mare came a 6 week old baby, which we named Sun's Max Factor's Successor.  We
call her Maxie for short.

What we are looking for is someplace we can go to help get information on the
way Lady should ride.  My wife and I went out last night, and Lady did very
well, but Donna doesn't know what the various gaites should feel like, so she
is not sure when she has Lady where she should be.

What we would like to find is someone who can either give us individual help or
support, or a class or clinic.  We know of one in New Hampshire, but it is
pretty far for us to travel.  It is a week clinic with some guy from Tennessee.
This is what we could really use.  Something which will give us the scoop
on the various bits, what is usually required for showing, how to get into the
various gaites and what they should feel and look like, what kinds of shoes
should be used (so we can be somewhat intelligent when working with the farrier -
I don't like just trusting the farrier).

We live in Chelmsford, Mass.  We are willing to travel, just not 2 hours every
day, if we can avoid it.  It would be great if we could connect with some other
Walker people to just be able to share thoughts once in a while.  My wife is
an expert rider (she has been riding all of her life).  She is just new with
Walkers.  I am an advanced beginner, myself.

Ed..

    The Walking horse association has video tapes that cover all your
    questions, one on gaits and one on showing, if I recall they are not
    too expensive and you could refer to them as often as you wish.
    Sandy
    

How would we get information on the tapes?

Ed..

    
    
    	Just to head off a potential rat hole - NOBODY in New
    	England is allowed to show `Big Lick' Walkers, those 
    	with padded feet. 
    
    	Sherry
    

    What does the term "Big Lick" mean?  If no one is allowed in New
    England to show them, can they be shown in other states?  Is whatever
    "Big Lick" is cruel?
    
    Ignorantly yours,
    
    Tina

    
    Yes, please do explain. I certainly did not intend to start a rat-hole,
    as I have very little knowledge of the breed or training methods. The
    woman in the tack shop was quite adamant about her stand, but I really
    didn't listen well enough to pick up details and didn't get involved
    at all in the discussion.
    
    Equally as ignorant as the previous noter..:-)....
    

    
    
    	There is several kinds of walkers
    
    	Pleasure Walkers (which in new england is the only way we can show)
    
    	Padded Walkers (which is down south)  "big Lick"  they 
    	are the ones that are usally shown in magazines and are
    	padded on there feet (sherry might known how to explain them 
    	better).
    
    	Racking walkers (which is faster walking horse, but itsn't doing
    	the gate poperly).  There is a whole different club for these
       
    	Mary Lou (sign of the horse farm, usally has what I need but,
    	I wanted to have another alternative,...)
    
    
    	

    
    
    	The running walk gait is bred in and quite natural to the
    	Tennesse Walking Horse. I have seen pictures and even an
    	old movie of a foundation stud, Strolling Jim, doing a running
    	walk with his front legs carried very high. For some reason,
    	trainers started to add padding to the front feet, thus creating
    	a greatly exagerated version of the gait (some of these horses
    	are NEVER allowed to canter) for the show ring. These horses can only
    	be padded for so many years before they break down. Then they
    	are retired or retrained for lite shod, or bred. These are the
    	horses that are referred to as Big Lick. (I have seen other breeds
    	use pads, namely Morgans.)
                                                  
    	There are several divisions of Walking Horses, padded, lite
    	shod and plantation are the most common. Lite shod involves
    	no pads, but heavy shoes. Plantation are keg shoes only, or
    	bare. Rules are set by the Tenn W.H. Breeders and Exhibitor's
    	Association, and regional clubs comply the TWHBEA rules. All
    	shows are supposed to have an inspector on the grounds to check
    	all horses on the way in the ring, and pinning horses on the
    	way out of the ring, for signs of soreness.
    
    	Soreness is the biggest crime of the TWH industry. There are
    	different methods of soring, involving either/or the sole or
    	a combination of chains and an irritant on the lower leg. Any
    	horse found suffering from this is suspended, and it's trainer
    	and owner fined and suspended from showing for 3 mos. These
    	things, padding and soring, are only found outside of New England.
    	The New England TWH groups have chosen to show only lite and
    	plantation horses, padded horses are excused from the ring on
    	those rare occasions when they do show up. Most of the TWH industry
    	right now is trying to `clear it's name' by proving to the show
    	world that we do not abuse our horses as a matter of course.
    	Those caught doing it are ostracized severely.
    
    	I'd be happy to answer any other questions (the best that I
    	can). 
    
    	Sherry
     

    Where do you show TWH in New England?  Are there any shows in NH?  Can
    you use them for competitive trail rides?
    
    Tina

    
    
    	Tennesse walkers are great for trail riding, I endurance and
    	competive trail.  She eats up alot of groud doing her running
    	walk with out her owner expending alot a energy.
    
    	Walkers are a great Pleasure horse.  It took me 20 years 
    	figure that one out because of all the hoopla about big lick
    	horses the pleasure horse got lost, but it is going to be big
    	business when people find out that they can do anything a 
    	a regular horse can do with putting so much strain on the rider.
    
    	They come in all colors, shapes and sizes.
    
    	I love to talk about them and educate people on how wonderful
    	they really are.

Walking horses are able to do anything that any other horse can do.  The main
difference is that they are what is called a gaited horse.  They do 4 distinct
gaits - the Walk, the Flat Walk, the Running Walk, and the Cantor.  Each of these
is smooth when done right.

Many people are under the misconception that just because the horse has the gait
bred into them that they should "just do it".  Well, that is sort of true.  But,
it is necessary for the rider to know how to get the horse into the gaits, also.
It is not really tough.

I have seen Walking horses jumping, doing trails, pulling carts, and have even
spoken with a woman who is training her horse to do dressage (except the horse
won't do the trot!).

These are wonderful horses that can do anything you would possibly want them to
do.  The more you ask them to do, the more they like it.  The Association even
has a program called the Versatility program.  For each of the different things
that your horse can do, you get points.  The points lead up to a versatility
title.  This has become (and is becoming) more popular all of the time.

We have a mare and a 6-month old filly.  If you would like to see them, we live
in Chelmsford.  We would love to show them off.  We will be in the market for
another around the December time frame (the mare is my wife's, the filly is
mine but I have nothing to ride for another year or so).

Ed..

    
    
    	Ed, I hate to disagree, but the TWHBEA only recognizes three
    	gaits, flat walk, running walk and canter. I suspect by saying
    	walk, flat walk you are referring to the difference in speed
    	between the `dog walk', which is only a very relaxed walk
    	on a loose rein, and a more collected walk. This does not mean
    	that the TWH is not capable of doing other gaits - I have seen
    	them pace, fox trot, stepping pace, rack, running walk, and
    	trot. It is said that not two TWH do exactly the same inter-
    	mediate gait. I am working with an ex-padded horse right now
    	who is having a hard time, she looks for the weight and height
    	of the pads and the minute she stops concentrating she paces.
    	
    	Dressage is now recognized by the International Plantation Walking
    	Horse Association. The trot is NOT required, and there are even	
    	a few videos out on Dressage with the TWH. 
    
    	I have several pamphlets that I would be happy to copy and send
    	to anyone who would like more information on Walkers. I am also
    	secretary of the Northern Walking Horse Association, if anyone
    	is interested in going to a meeting, let me know. 
    
    	There are about a dozen or more shows in the New England area
    	that have Walking Horse classes, Deerfield fair, Hopkinton Fair,
    	Acton Fair, etc. There are no more shows this season, though.
    
    	I show my horse in local shows, doing western side saddle with
    	him. Some judges at these shows don't even want to look at my
    	horse because they don't know how to judge his gait against
    	other horses. We've also won a few competitve trail rides this
    	year.
    
    	Sherry
    

Yes, I was referring to the Dog Walk.  In a sense, all of the gaits are simply
different speeds of the same gait.

Don't you just love them?

The biggest problem we have found is the lack of supplies.  We were fortunate to
have found the clinic that we went to in Warner.  It helped us alot and got us
connected to some knowledgeable people.  Dale Seidel was the trainer who ran
the clinic.  He made a difference in Lady's performance.

We will have to get together sometime.  We have been meaning to, but never seem
to be able to make the connection.

How are your guys doing?

I have ordered the catalog from National Bridle.  I thought I would check it 
out.  We are feeding the supplement PEMWOOD on the recommendation of the trainer.
What a difference.  Lady has alot more perkiness.  They also get crimped oats.

Ed..

>I have seen Walking horses jumping, doing trails, pulling carts, and have even
>spoken with a woman who is training her horse to do dressage (except the horse
>won't do the trot!).

    There was an Arab at the NEDA show last weekend and thinking of the
    valueing differences note I asked my instructor about Arabs.  Her
    comments also apply here.

    The most important point when looking for a dressage horse is 
    3 pure gaits.  Walk, trot and canter.

    When training, the major points are FORWARD and then round.  I
    can't yell FORWARD loud enough.

    Arabs (in general of course) have a lower withers and their neck may be
    farther back so it is that much harder for them to be round.  Not having 
    3 pure gaits would also (I assume) incure the rath of a judge or two.
    
    The more 'generic' definition of dressage is to train so you can
    certainly do dressage on any horse and the dressage exercises or
    movements will help any horse.

    

    
    
    	I just got the latest issue of North Amer Walker yesterday,
    	I don't have it with me, but there is another article on 
    	dressage with the TWH. It seems the first article generated
    	a flood of responses from Walking Horse owners who are interested
    	in doing dressage with their horses! The article stressed the
    	idea that in the classical sense, the overall beauty and grace
    	of the dressage horse is the goal of training. (I'd love to
    	see musical kur with a Walker!!). 
    
    	Regarding judges - our Assoc was invited to a show, they had
    	a half dozen Walking Horse classes planned for us...One woman
    	entered in Open Driving, and the secretary told the judge he
    	would have a Walker in that class - `Okay by me, as long as
    	he can trot!', they didn't correct him, and needless to say,
    	she placed last. He walked up to her afterwards and told her
    	she clearly had the best driving horse in the class, but since
    	it didn't trot, he couldn't place her!!! Well, it turned out
    	he `wasn't judging the intermediate gait in open classes', which
    	is why I hadn't been pinned in three previous classes. They
    	had a talk with him, and I pinned high in the class after that.
    	He knew we would be there with Walkers, and yet he'd decided
    	without consulting anyone that he wouldn't even consider our
    	horses! 
    
    	Sherry
    

Sherry,

What do you mean by he wasn't judging the intermediate gaits?

Also, check out the show note.  There is a fun show in Concord, N.H.

Ed..

    Re: Sherry
    
    I can almost understand the judges confusion, though. If the class list
    specified something to the effect of (as you often see for pleasure
    classes): to be judged at the walk, trot, and canter both ways of the
    ring. To be ridden on a light rein without lose of contact. Will be asked
    to back, blah, blah, blah. Was that specified for the open classes? If
    so, perhaps the judge felt he would be out of line pinning horses that
    did not meet class requirements?? Just a guess, and certainly if no
    specific class requirements were given then he should have been
    considering all the entries equally....I know that the times I have
    shown my Standardbred mare we've done fine except for the times
    when she would occasionally pace a few strides, or do her preferred
    4-beat canter, then I have not been and have not expected to be considered,
    as we did not fullfill the class requirements. Your horses sound
    like a lovely breed, and quite versatile!
    

    
    	It was a fun show, classes were not detailed in the class 
    	list, just `Open Driving Pleasure', or whatever...Well, that's
    	why we're trying to get out to as many shows as possible, to
    	get people used to seeing us...
    
    	Sherry
    

    Does 'padded' have anything to do with the very, very long hooves I've
    seen Walkers with?
    
    

Yes, padded horses will have large pads on their front feet.  There are also
heavy-shod which is heavy shoes, and light-shod which is lighter (regular) shoes.

Ed..

    You mean the length you see is pad, rather than hoof growth? I'm
    confused, I'd always thought they just let the hooves grow very long
    to achieve the lift they want in the steps. 
    
    Curious,
    
    Linda
    

    
    
    	Padded horses have very long toes.. and very short heals.
    	the pads are then attached to the hoof.  They look like
    	2 inch wedges 
    
    	Regular plantation horses are shoed normally (but still have
    	the tendency to have there toes long to get I higher step.

    
    
    	Plantation horses have keg shoes. The angle is steeper
    	than the average horse, and the heels are short. 
    
    	From the TWHBEA rule book:
    
    	Plantation shoes will not exceed 1/2" thickness or 1 1/2"
    	width. Lite shows will not exceed 3/4" width, 3/8" width.
    
    
    	Padded horses differ. In my experience, they are not much
    	different in the hoof than plantation or liteshod, HOWEVER,
    	the pads that I have seen are approximately FIVE TO EIGHT 
    	INCHES in height and weight a couple of pounds. (these were
    	pre-regulation leftovers). These pads have a metal strap 
    	which starts at the bottom rear of the pad and goes almost
    	up to the top of the hoof, then back down to the other side.
    
    	LET ME STRESS that NO ONE in New England is allowed to show
    	with these devices, and our biggest goal is to educate the 
    	public that we do NOT approve of it. 
    
    	I would also add that NO ONE cuts and sets tails, even down
    	South, that has been discontinued. I am still seeing books today
    	that state this is still being done (ie published 1991). Nothing
    	like a little bad press being passed on and on and on...
    
    	Sherry
    
    
    	Lite shod 

    I don't understand:
    
    Why let the hooves grow longer than is customary/natural/etc to get
    higher lift?  Isn't the gait a natural gait, not a (for lack of better
    word) 'forced' one?  I thought that was the plus of the breed, a
    naturally smooth gait.
    
    Is the lift something you want for show?  Is it something that looks
    good or assists the gait?  Are long hooves natural for the horse or
    part of the aids (like, padding, I guess)
    
    Curious outsider,
    
    kim

    
    	Yes, the gait is natural. Originally they were shown without
    	any padding, later pads were added to exagerate the leg
    	action, producing a showier horse. Over time it got out of hand
    	and now it's `out'. Southern circuits will probably always 
    	show these horses, but anywhere outside of that they aren't
    	as popular. Upstate NY, Ohio, Texas, and California are the
    	other biggest regions (as well as NE). There are some Walkers
    	in foreign countries now, Germany, Brazil, Japan, etc. 
    
    	Like I said, I do not know anyone who lets the foot grow long.
    	If anything, I know more people who keep it short and at a
    	steeper angle than you would see on a hunter type horse. 
    
    	Sherry
    	

    Tenn Walkers can perform their gaits with normal feet. Show ring padded
    Walkers perform extremely exaggerated gaits which I find very ugly. My
    own Walker has never had anything but normal feet and can do the usual
    walk,trot,canter along with the very comfortable flat walks and running
    walk. She also loves jumpng and long trail rides. They are very nice
    tempered with very good bone in general. I did some dressage work with
    her, but she required a very consistent balanced seat to hold the trot.
    It was not her favorite gait when round and on the bit. To be able to
    show I gave her to my sister and am working with a different breed now.
    For a "fun" horse I cannot think on a breed I would rather have.

    re .56 and .57
    
    Aha.  Thanks for helping clear the confusion.
    
    

    I have seen them so overshod as to literally cause them
    to hit their chest, and the cleats on the end of the shoe
    were making little cuts every time they contacted....
    
    

One aspect of Walkers is that they want a longer heel.  You have to be really
careful not to let the farrier cut back too much heel.  They need this to help
them compensate into the gaits.

While the gaits are natural, they do require the right footing and the right
aids from the rider.  It is easy to fall out of a running walk into a trot
or pace (depending on the horse).  Also, the weight of the shoes will affect
the gait.  Our mare recently got new shoes.  The shoes are a bit heavier than
the old ones and she has become a bit pacey.  Our trainer suggested removing
the rear shoes.  We are going to get a second opinion this weekend and then
decide what to do.

The versatility program for Walking horses is a really good program.  it helps
to show that the horse can do more than just ride.  It includes driving, riding,
and many other things.  Each item gets a certain number of points.  When you
get the right number of points, your horse receives it's versatility title.

Also, the angle of the hoof affects the way the gaits go.  I believe Walking
horses want an angle of about 55% or so.  Our farrier even had a hoof compass
to check the angle as he was trimming the feet.

Ed..

    
    I've been riding casually for about 2 years now, and more seriously for
    the last 6 months or so. I've sort of backed into an interest in horses
    through my obsession with field trialling.
    
    I'm currently leasing a quarterhorse mare so that I have an opportunity
    to get in as much riding time as possible. However, having ridden 
    several Walkers at trials, my longer term goal is first to lease, then
    to buy one for myself. Our field trainer has a 16-2 Walker who is, in
    every respect, the best horse I've had the opportunity to ride, and
    is a joy to watch.
    
    I'd be interested in knowing Walker owners in the North-central Mass/
    Southern NH area so that I can learn more about the breed.
    
    Stu
    

    
    	Stu, I am currently secretary of the Northern Walking Horse
    	Association, I would be glad to send you info and help you
    	find other owners in your immediate area. Send me mail.
    
    	Sherry
    

    
    	Stu, 
    
    
    
    
    	I currently on the board of the New England Walking Horse 
    	Association.  
    
    	That right there are two.. One is mostly people who live 
        in conn. (Northern.. Conn, Western Mass).. The other is based 
    	out of Amesbury, Maine, New Hampshire. 495 area.
    
    	Long story about the split between the association.  There is 
    	no rivalry.
    
    	If you want I can send you some old voice magazines and
    	Walker News letters.
    
    	If you live in the NH area. Mary Lue Heppolt of Sign of the 
    	horse farm is very knowledgable.
    
    	Your more than welcome to come see my mare and foal. (I live
    	in the Chelmsford area.)
    	
    	Any questions I can answer I will be glad too, I just love my
    	walker and I baught her year ago and she's the best.. I wasn't
        going to settle for less..  
    
    	Let me know about the magazines... 
    
    	Oh ya.. the peddlar had a great article on Walker this month.
    	

    
    		Northern Walking Horse Association has members from
    	RI to VT and everywhere in between, including western Mass. We
    	welcome any new member wherever they are located. Our meetings
    	are rotated so that we're always near somebody different, not
    	everyone wants to drive three hours every month to go to a mtg
    	so we accomodate that. We are a `young' organization, this is 
    	our second year. Our members are involved in everything, including
    	showing, endurance riding, pleasure riding, gymkhana, western, 
    	english, side saddle, parades, dressage, demonstrations - anything
        we can do with this versatile breed! 
    
    	Sherry
      

           
    
	Ed, while you might get a good answer in the dressage note on this
    	question, let me address it here in terms of walking horses. To 
    	loosely quote the versatility program rule book "The running walk
    	should be loose and flowing. NEVER sacrifice FORM for SPEED at the 
    	running walk". I'm not sure why you are looking for speed, or how
    	much speed you are looking for, but now in your horse's training 
    	is not the time to incorporate any kind of speed. You could very 
    	well use dressage training to get her to use her hind and supple
    	her back, her balance is the most important thing right now. Judges
    	in this area frown on Walkers that tear around the ring and throw
    	their feet all over the place, I've heard one remark about a
    	southern trained walker that she was `just too much' and the owner
    	had been holding her back for all she was worth! They would rather
    	see a calm, well balanced horse doing what it's supposed to do,
    	there is little or no place for `park walkers' up here. 
    
    	If you push this mare to speed she's just going to get strung out
    	and start to pace or rack. I would spend your time getting her to
    	move on the bit, and engage her rear end. If you think you want 
    	speed, do that _last_
    
    	Sherry
    
    
    
    
================================================================================
Note 10.723                         Dressage                          723 of 723
KAHALA::FULTZ "ED FULTZ"                             21 lines  18-MAY-1992 08:09
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>when she is asked to speed up her gait, she tends to pull
>>her front under her and do what is known as a Rack.

Thanks,

Ed..

    
    
    	I'll answer.. 
    
    	This horse is around 16 hands and should be in flat walk 
    moving from her sholder(sp) out.. Instead she is putting her
    leg down straight from her sholder.
    
    	She has no problems with contact with the bit but, she
    finds it hard to reach with her front..
    
    	I think she has great rear movement but with her size she
    should be moving out more .. and not underneath her self so 
    much if she would do that he head would be bobbing like a mad 
    man and wouldn't be racking.. 
    
    Don't really want to go faster just more fluid in a flat walk
    I think its going to take holding her back on the bit and pushing
    her forward.. 
    
    Other comments.. 
    
    Nice to here from you sherry.. 
    

I am not suggesting that I WANT the speed.  Rather, she seems to do well at
a slow (almost very slow) flat walk.  When asked to move into any kind of
running walk, she tends to pull her front under her and slip into a bit of
a rack.  I know this can be worked out of her.  What I was looking for in
the dressage note was whether those techniques would help to give her some
of that suppleness you mentioned.

She also doesn't have alot of confidence in herself.  She depends on the
rider for her confidence (or another horse if that is the case).  Again,
I was thinking that dressage techniques might help her to build her
confidence.

I want to get her to the point where I can, possibly, do some showing
with her.  I can't say whether she would drive.  The versatility program
would be nice to try with her.  We are going to go slow.  It will
probably take 2-3 years before she is where she should be.

This is similar to how Lady was (Donna's horse) when we got her last
year.  The only thing is that Lady had the confidence she needed.  She
just was not well schooled.  This horse is lacking confidence and schooling.
She was only broken last May (1991).  And she has not had alot of work.

We got her from Betty Beaudoin.  Betty just has too many horses to
be able to work them all.  The horse's name is Dixie.  She is a Carbon
Copy mare.  She has a wide diversity of champions in her background,
including Carbon Copy, Mack K's Handshake, Merry Go Boy, and one or two
others.

What I thought I would do, probably for the first month or two, is work her
in the ring (we don't have much of one) at a good flat walk.  I will
try to push her until she starts to rack.  Then I will pull her back and
hopefully that will encourage her to continue stretching.  The more she
stretches, the more confident she will get (I think, or hope).

I agree with you about pushing her too hard, though.

Also, for at least 7-8 months, nobody else will be able to ride her.  She
is going to need a confident, consistent rider.  If she goes from one
person to another constantly, I think it will only confuse and scare her
even further.

So, as you can see, we have our work cut out for us.  But, I think that
in a couple of years we will have a horse that will be worth twice (or
hopefully more) the money we are paying for her.  We certainly can't beat
the price.

Ed..

    
    	Well that sounds like a good plan. I thought you were trying
    	to turn her into a pursuit horse right off the bat! The best
    	exercise for her will be a LOT of dogwalking, just keep her
    	square and let her find her cadence. Going up and down hills
    	is a wonderful exercise, if you have a good hill. Walk her
    	down and running walk up, but don't let her canter or other
    	wise break gait going up. Don't running walk down or you will
    	force her onto the fore and she'll probably rack. I don't know	
    	what she is used to, but a nice fat snaffle might do the 
    	trick for a while - the key here is to let her relax. 
    
    	Bigger walkers with a longer back have a tougher time getting
    	under themselves, it can take a lot of work. Remember these 
    	horses were only 15hh at the most to start with! 
    
    	Sherry
    

RE: .66    
>    I think its going to take holding her back on the bit and pushing
>    her forward.. 
    
RE: .67
>                                          Then I will pull her back and
>hopefully that will encourage her to continue stretching.

This conversation started in the dressage note but Il'l put my 2c here.
I understand the dressage concept is to hold firmly but lightly, say 4 or
5 pounds in the reins and DRIVE the hind end.  Never pull back.  Always
drive forward.  

When you ride on a loose rein, the horse will strech his/her nose to the 
ground.  If you have been pulling/holding then the horse will hold the
same position.  Wrong wrong wrong.

    
    
    	Tennessee Walkers will not gate unless they are balanced
    	off there bit.. Walkers are not ever riden with a loose 
    	rien even western.  
    
    	I didn't mean pulling back like if you were going to back 
    	up but, more of constant pressure on the bit.
    
    	Knowing how qtr horses work with a loose rien it was 
    	a real backwards mentality when I went to a walker,but
    	they will not learn to walk properly with out pressure
    	on there bit.. 
    
    	Maybe sherry can explain better.. 

    I've been reading Gaitway magazine and the Horsemen's Yankee Pedlar
    (which had a couple of articles on TWH).  They always have an article
    or letter from someone who has a TWH that won't gait.  They either want
    to pace or trot.  Then the correction seems to be either uphill or
    downhill work and weighted shoes either fore or aft.  I talked with
    someone who is in the TWH business, and she said that since I'm a
    novice with TWH, that I would need a horse well established in the
    gait.
    
    My question(s) are these:  Are some TWH more inclined to running walk
    than others?  
    
    Do some TWH never really walk but are a TWH in name and breed only, but
    for whatever reason, the gait just wasn't dominant in their genetic
    code?
    
    If I got one of these horses, I'm not interested in finding I have a
    problem with it not wanting to running walk and that I have to find a
    farrier to put special shoes on it, etc, etc.  So how prevalent is this
    problem in the breed?
    
    Also, in the last issue of Gaitway, it talked about Missouri Fox
    Trotters and that when they are bought and taken out of their common
    setting, (lower and southern midwest), they lose their fox trot,
    because farriers elsewhere in the country don't know how to do the
    special hoof angles etc to make them fox trot.  Anyone have any insight
    on this and how it might possibly relate to TWH and their shoeing?

    
    	When the breed originated (early/mid 1800's), the tendancy was
    	nearly always to a true running walk. As time went on and people
    	began to show a padded horse, they looked for horses that tended
    	to pace, with the added weight of the `package' on the front,
    	they would then do a running walk. These horses became so popular
    	that they were used extensively in breeding, so now it is not
    	uncommon to see a horse who tend towards the pace, less common to
    	tend toward the trot. It is MUCH easier to `fix' a horse that 
    	tend toward trot than pace, unfortunately. Trot -> heavier rear
    	shoes -> working more downhill (as in ride down a hill at a 
    	running walk). Pace -> Heavier shoes in front -> work uphill. In
    	either case, it is solely a matter of degrees and up to the rider
    	if they want to fool with it. Many a pacey or trotty horse is just
    	as comfortable as a true running walk and it is perfectly fine for
    	the rider to choose to ignore the variance. Shoeing does not have
    	to be expensive. I have a pacey horse and his shoeing often costs
    	FAR less thasn my hunter friends pay. (I can give you a reference).
    	However, SOME TWH's will, by training or by accident, do only a 
    	full pace or trot and not a running walk. Again, it is up to the 
    	owner if this is an issue or not. Some people want a TWH solely for
    	their temperament. 
    
    	Sherry
    	

    
    	Oops, missed one question! Yes, the wrong shoeing job CAN
    	ruin the gait. If you don't have a farrier in your area that
    	does walkers, find one that is at least willing to consult
    	with a farrier familiar with walkers before doing your horse.
    	If he says they don't need to be shod any differently, FIND
    	ANOTHER FARRIER. Many walkers can be left barefoot or on keg
    	shoes, as long as the length and angles are correct.
    
    	

    
    
    	In trainer that I have trained with they would like to see
    	a nice fast pace than a trot on TWH.
    
    	Recently lady had a wonderful running walk but decided 
    	(due my fault).. that a fox trot would be alot easier for
    	her to do..          She was pacing and instead of pushing her
        forward I slowed her down .. causing her to fox trot.
    
    	So right know we have diamond toe shoes on the back so 
    	she will start reaching under herself again.. (boy is 
    	it uncomfortable.).. 
    
	but she is no longer fox trotting and she is doing a 
    	nice steady pace.. 
    
    	Next month we are taking off the back shoes and see if
    	she can remember to twh.
    
    	******I have found out the hard way a farrier can make
    	all the difference in the world and I pay less than I paid
    	for some one who said they new how to shoe a walking horse****
    
    	There can be other reasons a twh won't walk.. some like
    	our shelly needs her wolf teeth pulled which I know is 
    	going to be like night and day for her.. the bit won't
    	be hanging on those senitive teeth.
    
    	With out any training shelly walks naturally.. 
    	

    
    	Question.. ???
    
    	We recently baught a 4 year old tennesee walker.. 
    
    	When working in the ring the other day she had two problems
    
    	1.  She feels if she has her head on the rail that her
    	    bottom needs to be out.. (she was doing some nice
    	    side passes.. 
    
    	    I had leg on her the whole time but, she kept putting
    	    her but out.
    
    	2.  Shelly is about 16 hands.. and she cover less ground
    	    than lady who is only 15 hands.  I am tring to move
    	    her forward but, she never wants to move from the sholder
    
    	

    
    	1] try some bending exercises. Depending on where her 
    	   early training was done - ie down south, she may have
    	   been taught only to go in a straight line, as southern
    	   trainers often do.
    
           or, have her teeth checked, if they're bad it might 
    	   hurt to flex to the side, therefore she evades by 
    	   turning her whole body.
    
    	   or, she could really hate whatever bit you're using,
    	   try a snaffle for a while.
    
    	2] All walkers are built differently. A taller horse may
    	   cover less ground than a shorter horse. Sometimes this
    	   cannot be changed.
    
    	Sherry
    

    
    
    	She just had two Wolf teeth pulled out and I have
    	a broken mouth piece in her mouth now..
    
    	How long before she doesnt' feel the effects of her
    	teeth being done  - I had her done last thursday.. 
    
    	Never saw so much blood.. YUK!!!
    
    	Can you suggest any bending excercises???
    
    	She was trained in Heath Ma by betty Boudioun but, using
    	a ring but, she didn't use her much	
    
    	Going to do alot of ring work this week.. 	
    

    
    	This month's EQUUS has an article about stiff horses
    	that would probably be a big help. My copy is on loan
    	or I would you a copy myself...
    
    	She should be over the wolf teeth by now. 
    
    	I mean to use a regular egg-butt snaffle, not a shank
    	snaffle. If that works, go back to what you need for 
    	the show ring later.
    

    On bending exercises...sepentines, circles, if she gets bored
    easily,give her some obstacles to bend around. If your ring has
    corners, put a barrel, garbage can or what ever you have in each corner
    about 10 feet in, and work her into them. Obstacles will help her get
    the idea of what you want. My walker could see no sense in bending for
    no reason and this is how I got her to work with me.
    Sandy
    

    
    	Just wanted to tell every one (brag a bit).. 
    Shelly my husbands new horses who is only 4 went to a clinic
    Saturday and was wonderful..   We finally figured out her
    problem.. She was bouncing her head so much she couldn't keep
    he gait together.. the Instructor put a running maringale on her
    and presto - a walking horse.. 
    
    Thanks for the responses

    I have been reading with interest the notes on gait for Walking Horses
    and Fox Trotters.  There is an excellent series on gait and the
    genetics of gait by Eldon Eadie in 4 BEAT magazine. The thing that
    sets Eldon Eadie apart is that he has spent 30 years studying gait and
    the genetics of gait rather then just throwing out terms and information
    without proving the "facts" he is using.  All "gaited" horses simply 
    have the ability to take the even 4 beat walk and speed it up, sometimes to
    very high speeds - nothing more or less!  The Tennessee Walker has an
    evenly timed (not diagonal) intermediate gait.  So does the Racking Horse 
    and the Paso Fino.  The only diagonally timed intermediate gait (one that 
    moves closer in timing to the trot) is the Fox Trotter.  The Peruvian Paso
    has a lateral gait going from near even to very lateral.  As far as I
    am concerned the Peruvian Paso is the only breed built to use the
    lateral gait or stepping pace.  When you see much pace  in the longer
    legged southern gaited horses you will run into problems. The pace and
    stepping pace are far too common in the Walking Horse today.  Eldon
    Eadie also has a video which describes the running walk, fox trot,
    trail rack or single-foot, and the stepping pace.  This can be ordered
    through 4 BEAT magazine.  His computerized study and slow motion
    footage is a real eye opener on all the intermediate 4 beat gaits!  
    
    Our trail riding club here in Montana really puts the gaited horses to
    some pretty hard testing.  The bottom line is that if you want to save
    yourself a lot of trouble in getting the "gait" you want then you
    should be looking for horses with strong "gait" genes.  These genes are
    different than the trot or pace genes, but work with them to determine
    how strong, how natural, and what 4 beat gait you will have. 
    
    The thing that our trail riding club found is that no matter how good
    the training or shoeing job, if the horse does not have VERY strong
    gait genes for the correct gait for it's breed then the horse WILL fall
    apart gait-wise on long hard trail rides. A horse that wants to gait
    properly is going to show stronger gait genes then a horse that would
    rather stepping pace or pace. Training for gait is fine
    for horses that will be used mostly for 10 to 20 minute periods in a
    show ring.  Then all the fancy shoeing and training methods will work
    out fine. But, why go through the extra trouble when you can just breed
    for strong gait?  On the trails we find that horses will end up doing
    the gait that is most natural to them when tired or on a long uphill
    and downhill trail.   
    
    
    The Eldon Eadie articles also discribe the 9 major genetic combinations
    and this is a huge help in selecting a horse to buy or in selecting the
    correct genetic combination when breeding.  The series started with the
    Summer 1991 issue and some of these issues are sold out, but they can
    be run off if requested.  This magazine is quarterly and is loaded with
    articles.  It is also totally barefoot or trail shod so you neither see
    the big lick horses nor have anyone trying to convience you that all
    the problems you are seeing with gait "just need the proper training or
    shoeing".   
    
    No one in this magazine is trying to convince you that you can buy a
    Walking Horse, Racking Horse or Fox Trotter from padded up or "made"
    blood and it is going to work out just dandy as a riding horse!  You
    will understand that the genetics are different and why and how they
    are different. The magazine is $15 for a years subscription and covers
    ALL gaited breeds and gaited horses in depth!  4 BEAT  P.O. Box 1079 
    Three Forks, MT  59752  
    
    Did you know that the famous foundation stallion for the Tennessee
    Walking Horse, Roan Allen, could running walk and rack?  Did you ever
    ask yourself why the Walking Horse breed is breeding out the natural
    speeded up version of the running walk or true rack or single-foot when
    their most famous foundation sire had it?  Why it is now a dirty word
    with most Walking Horse people?  Both the Paso Fino people with their
    corto and faster 4 beat gait the largo and the Peruvian Paso people
    with the paso llano and the faster 4 beat sobreandando realize the
    value of an extended 4 beat gait.  The Peruvians call it "thread" and the
    Single-Footing people call it "range in gait" and Eldon Eadie calls it
    the "acid test for strong gait" and it is tied for second place as one
    of the most requested qualities a gaited trail horse can have among avid
    trail riders.  
                              

    RE .82
    
    Thank you for entering that; it was fascinating stuff!  I'm surprised
    to hear that the Tennessee Walker does not have a two-beat diagonal
    gait.  I hear people mention that they "trot", but the gait must be
    really something else.  So if it's a two-beat gait, and not diagonal
    pairs, then it must be lateral pairs  -- the only other possibility 
    makes me giggle just thinking about it 8^) -- so it must be a pace?
    
    I'm sorry to hear that people are breeding away from the fast running
    walk.  This is a beautiful thing to see.  But perhaps, as with the
    "old" style Morgans, some breeders will keep to the original standards
    for the breed.
    
    -ellie

    
    	Oh, goodie! Someone I can have a technical TWH discussion
    	with!! :)
    
    	I disagree about breeding the rack out - I went to the National
    	Plantation Classic this year, 85 classes of over 300 Tenn Walking
    	Horses, and there were plenty of Racking classes. In fact, the
    	crowd loved it so much, that the competitors requested and got the
    	addition of a Racking Horse Championship class - I have never seen
    	a Walking Horse move so fast and BOY was it exciting!!
    
    	As with any breed, or specialty breed, the industry will always be
    	divided into disparate factions. In our case, we have the bad boys,
    	the Padded Horses, and the Plantation horses that are really
    	padded-wannabees. Then you have the Lite Shod/Plantation horses,
    	the nice show horses with a little more action, but not the
    	grotesque exaggeration of their big brothers, the Padded horse.
    	Then you have the barefoot horses, either being shown, or used for 
    	competitive or non-competitive trail riding. Because of the
    	variances in breeding lines/genetics, you can easily find TWH's
    	that are suited to each of these categories. You will also see
    	people showing a horse in a category that doesn't suit it. (Let me
    	just add the disclaimer that I do NOT condone Padded or heavy 
    	Plantation horses - they are am embarassment to the industry, BUT
    	they are out there nonetheless and we have to deal with them). 
    
    	You will also see horses in a particular area of the US being used 
    	predominantly in a single category -  in New England, Padded horses
    	are illegal, so we see only lite shod show horses, and trail horses 
    	(which are quite often the same horses, as mine is). In the deep
    	South, Padded horses are the biggest industry, the Plantaiton
    	horses come in second. And some areas have a lot of trail riders.
    	The Walking Horse is suited to all of these styles, but it is often
    	bred for a particular task. And no, you can't take a padded horse
    	and expect to make a trial horse out of it, you can only rescue it
    	from it's abuse... But the temperament of the TWH is so forgiving
    	that they are easily adapted to anything that is done to them.
    	Which is why there are padded horses...
    
    	The running walk is considered a four-cornered even gait. Some
    	horses do tend toward the pace or the trot, and you can either 
    	ride it or try to correct it. In some cases it may be a case of 
    	the last farrier left the heels too long. The gait goes right
    	front, left rear, left front, right rear, and so on. It gives the 
    	feel of floating and inch above the saddle. The rack is the same,
    	but the added speed gives a moment of suspension, as in the gallop
    	vs the canter. It is just as smooth, and very exciting.
    
    	Looking forward to some interesting discussions!!
    
    	Sherry
     
    	
    

Welcome.  Do you own Walking horses?  Can you post the address and needed
information for getting the video you mentioned?  It sounds like something
that I would find beneficial.

I agree that there are natural walking horses and then there are those
that are trained to do it for a short time.  I much prefer to concentrate
on the natural walkers, and strengthen the blood lines of these horses.

Have you seen some of the films from the earlier horses?  Boy were some
of them beautiful.

Ed..

    Hi everyone,
    
    There are Racking horses registered with the Racking Horse Association,
    but the Walking Horse industry and the Racking Horse idustry have
    split.  I realize that many Walking Horses can still rack, but The
    Walking Horse registry does not recognize the rack as an official gait. 
    The Racking Horse classes at IPWHA are probably filled with registered
    racking horses or walking horses that can rack. The IPWHA show is open
    to Walking Horses, Racking Horses and Spotted Saddle Horses. The Walking 
    Horse registry is not breeding for the rack within that registry. I
    believe the IPWHA registry accepts both the running walk and the rack.
     Also there is a big difference between the "show rack" and the natural 
    trail rack.
    
    All the gaited breeds have the same footfall pattern - they must
    because a horse can only move one foot one time during the sequence 
    in the walk or any other 4 beat gaits.  All gaited horses can trot or pace 
    (which are two beat gaits (either diagonal the trot or lateral the pace) 
    in addition to a 4 beat intermediate gait.  It is not the footfall that 
    changes, but the timing of the 4 footfalls.  When a Walking Horse is 
    "gaiting" it does not trot or pace.  It is this ability to do a 4 beat
    intermediate gait that makes the "gaited" breeds different.  
    
    I agree that there are Walking Horses for every interest.  But I
    believe that this has caused there to be different "breeds" within the
    Walking Horse breed.  I also believe that mixing the blood of these
    horses is why the Walking Horse is less set with a strong gait then the
    Peruvian Horse is.  That is a breed that requires a short hoof and no
    shoes in the shows.  The Peruvians had to breed strong gait!  The big
    lick Walking Horses had to breed out strong gait to be able to do what
    they do with them.  The lite shod Walking Horses need to breed in strong
    gait again and many are, but as long as they use big lick blood they
    will spend time taking two steps forward and one back.  I really
    suggest getting Eldon Eadie's articles as he covers everything from the
    trot to the pace  and the genetics of gait which is not covered on his
    video. All intermediate 4 beat gaits plus the trot and pace are on the
    video, but not the genetics which you must also understand.
    
    Yes we do have Walking Horses, but now register them Single-Footing as
    I don't like the conflict within the Walking Horse world.  Plus my
    interest is in trail riding and the loose moving big nodding ideal lite
    shod show Walking Horse is the least popular trail breed as they cause
    saddle sores and backaches on long rides.  The head shaking moderate
    running walk horses that also have a fast single-foot are very popular,
    but not what they want in the show ring for lite shod horses.
    I didn't like being faced with breeding two types of Walking Horses - one
    for the lite shod show ring and one for the trail.  We also have
    Peruvians and I really respect the direction the Peruvian breeders set. 
    
    I was very upset with Dr Womack's statement "one of the great
    misconceptions concerning the Walking Horse is that all its gaits
    should be smooth; the flat walk of the plainshod horse need not be
    smooth and, in fact is more pronounced and distinct if it is not
    smooth"!  If you trail ride much you will use the flat walk a lot and
    it is this silly attempt at exaggerating the head nod and overstride at
    the running walk for the show ring that has created a horrid butt
    blistering, back wrecking flat walk.  Someone in the Walking Horse
    breed forgot why people get gaited horses!  
    
    The Single-Footing registry allows me to breed exactly the same type of
    horse for trail as for show.  
    
    Here is Eldon Eadie's address for the video which is $35 Canadian.  Box
    4371, Spruce Grove, Alberta  T7X 3B5 Canada.  You will learn more about
    gait from this video then all the breed promo hype registries have been
    putting out for years.  He makes it so simple.  
    
    One more interesting note and then I'll shut up!  I watched a World
    Champion Trail Pleasure Racking horse at their national show (note the
    name of the class!) win with a carefully "held in" gait.  This is a lite
    shod class for trail horses they claim.  As soon as she won the class
    she lightened up on the bit and the mare did a dead hard pace to the
    center of the ring and out of the ring.  And a hard pacer is the last
    thing anyone would want to spend 8 hours riding and this was the
    Racking Horse ideal trail pleasure horse?  Any avid trail rider would have
    caught the weak carefully held in gait and realized that this was just
    a pacer that was trained to gait for the ring.  A lot of Racking horses
    are getting very pacy just like many of the Walking Horses because they
    allow the padded horses also.
    
    This is the problem with having show ring judges judge trail riding horse 
    classes.  That is another thing I like about the Single-Footing
    registry since all judges must be trail riders.   I hope you will see
    some Single-Footing classes at the IPWHA Classic within a couple of
    years.  NASHA and IPWHA support each other and IPWHA contributes on a
    regular basis to 4 BEAT.  
      
                                                                             
                                         

	My horse is registered through the Racking Horse Breeders
	Assoc of America, and also IPWHA. I do not have anything to 
	do with TWHBEA, I feel that they drive the exploitation by
	promoting padded horses above all else. As far as I'm con-
	cerned, they're not even worth talking about. 

	IPWHA is a more open registry, although they are closing 
	it to RHBAA horses after 1993. Right now they're more interested
	in reviving the Plantation horse industry. (and that's why
	they're accepting RHBAA horses). My gelding IS a purebred TWH
	from down south, he has the appropriate training scars to prove
	it. He was sold without papers because it would be illegal to 
	show him as a TWHBEA registered horse with the scars that he
	has. That doesn't mean he's not a TWH - and there are plenty
	of people out there who have wonderful Walking Horses that can
	only be registered through RHBAA and IPWHA. I don't think it's
	fair to say they're not Walking Horses because they're `only'
	registered as Plantation or Racking horses. Granted, my horse
	does not rack, but I didn't set the registration criteria for 
	RHBAA, so who am I to argue if they want to accept him for registry?
	Now that he IS `registered', I can show him against the local 
	TWHBEA horses. At the last show, he placed 4th in model under 
	2 stallions and a southern mare, with 11 horses in the class so
	he's certainly of the same caliber. 

	    
>>  All the gaited breeds have the same footfall pattern - they must
>>  because a horse can only move one foot one time during the sequence 
>>  in the walk or any other 4 beat gaits.

	I STRONGLY disagree with this statement. A stepping pace or a
	foxtrot produce a distinctly different sound and footfall pattern
	than the running walk. The horse might be moving only one foot
	at a time, but which one it is and which one follows it are a
	different thing altogether!!


	Eldon Eadie put a lot of work into that video, and it is good
	to see equal treatment of all gaits, that helped with telling
	them apart. However, the video is very dry and at times has 
	simply too much information in it. I don't know of a single person
	who has been able to watch the whole thing in one sitting. I would
	like to see his articles, would you be willing to make me a copy?
    
    
>>    I was very upset with Dr Womack's statement "one of the great
>>    misconceptions concerning the Walking Horse is that all its gaits
>>    should be smooth; the flat walk of the plainshod horse need not be
>>    smooth and, in fact is more pronounced and distinct if it is not
>>    smooth"!  If you trail ride much you will use the flat walk a lot and
>>    it is this silly attempt at exaggerating the head nod and overstride at
>>    the running walk for the show ring that has created a horrid butt
>>    blistering, back wrecking flat walk.  Someone in the Walking Horse
>>    breed forgot why people get gaited horses!  

	Roan Allen was one of the foundation sires, if we use him to 
	typify even the flat walk, his head and neck were very loose
	and that movement was necessary to balance his walk. You are
	talking about abbreviating the gait; if the horse isn't following
	through with his head and neck, he's not walking freely. If you
	shorten the stride at the flatwalk, what are you looking for in
	the running walk? If he's not overstriding at the running walk,
	then he's going to lose his timing and won't be doing a true	
	running walk!
    
    
>>    One more interesting note and then I'll shut up!  I watched a World
>>    Champion Trail Pleasure Racking horse at their national show (note the
>>    name of the class!) win with a carefully "held in" gait.  This is a lite
>>    shod class for trail horses they claim.  As soon as she won the class
>>    she lightened up on the bit and the mare did a dead hard pace to the
>>    center of the ring and out of the ring. 

	Okay, one more remark and then *I* will shut up!  A Trail Pleasure
	horse should be shown on a loose rein, so I agree with you there. A
	padded and/or heavy shod Walker is going to pace whenever it gets
	thrown out of frame, as this horse did. Most, if not all, padded 
	horses start out as pacers, they look for that because they know
	that when they throw pads on it, it will do a running walk, whereas
	if it was walking to begin with, it'll never do it on pads. This is
	what's throwing the breeding programs off today (which is where I 
	agree with you most strongly). These horses are out there getting
	heavy publicity and winning big bucks, so of course people are going
	to want to breed even their backyard mares to these lines, and that's
	where the gaits are getting screwed up. 

	You and I agree on a lot of general points, but I think we are
	looking at the industry from two different angles. I'm looking
	forward to some interesting conversations!

	Sherry      
                                                                             
                                         

    
    
    	Since in away we are talking about shoeing, I was wondering if any 
    one new what the benefits of diamond toe weight on the back feet do?
    
    Donna

    
    	If you've got a horse that tends towards pacing, you
    	put more weight on the back to slow him down into a
    	running walk. Weight on the front compensates for a 
    	trotty horse. 
    
    	Toe weights are disallowed in the New England show 
    	circuit. Plantation/Lite shod shoes are allowed.
    
    	Another way to work out of pacing trotting - If it's
    	trotting (not necessarily a full trot, maybe just a 
    	little off-beat) work them up a hill at a running walk,
    	but not down. Do the opposite for a pacey horse. And
    	lots and lots of loose relaxed flat walking wherever you
    	go...
    

    
    	
    
    	What would happen if you put toe weight on a horse that
    	goes pretty well at a running walk?
    
    	Would it make them trotty or would it make them pacey

    
    	Depends on which end you put them on!! Just go back to
    	my last note and reverse the process... Why ARE you putting
    	toe weights on the rears? 

    
    
    	Well, this is what happened.. 
    
    	Lady my walker really walked great until (unknowingly) I shortened
    	her strid.. So now she is fox trotting.. 
    
    	The Trainer felt if we put toe weight on the back and speed 
    	her past her the fox trot she would extend out to a pace.
    
    	Which did work.  but, I don't think it's helping any more.. 
    
    	I am going to remove them.  (she is going a trainer in Penn. in 
    	March and April to straighten out this problem)
    
    	Donna.

    All gaited horses have the same footfall pattern, because all gaited
    horses just take the 4 beat walk and do it at high speeds.  If you
    don't believe me take Eldon's video and take the fox trot, running
    walk, rack and stepping pace and slow each one down.  Start with any
    foot you want to, but start with the same foot with each.  Then record
    which foot hits the ground after the foot you start with and so on
    until you are back to the starting foot again.
    
    You will find that the right front foot always follows the right rear
    foot and that the left rear foot always follows the right front foot
    and that the left front foot always follows the left rear foot and the
    right rear (starting foot in this case) always follows the left front
    foot.  It is exactly the same pattern as the walk.
    
    The reason it sounds different is the timing of the hoofbeats, not the
    footfall pattern.  A Peruvian horse hits with a closer timing between
    the laterals so the sound is paca paca.  An even gaited horse will have
    a pac pac pac pac at evenly timed sounds.  They may sound different
    (faster) in a Paso Fino because the horse is taking a shorter stride,
    but they will still give a even beat.  A Fox Trotter hits closer in
    timing on the diagonals so you will hear a different timing - not even
    beats.  All this has nothing to do with the footfall pattern. You can
    not see footfall with your eye as it is too fast.  You need to look at
    the slow motion video.
    
    It also looks different because of timing not a different footfall
    pattern.  Let's face it, a horse is going to move only one foot one
    time during the 4 footfalls in a sequence.  
    
    Now once you understand this you will understand shoeing.  A pacy horse
    hits with the right hind followed VERY quickly by the right front so
    you need to slow the right front foot down.  That is why you add weight
    or a longer toe to the front feet.  If you add weight to the rear of a
    pacy horse you will end up with a dead two beat pace.  There is a lot
    of pace in Walking Horses because when they started adding weight to
    the front they had to add more pace or they would have ended up with
    fox trotting or trotting horses.  
    
    If your horse is trotty then you add weight to the rear to slow the
    timing of the rear down.  
    
    The Summer issue of 4 BEAT discussed the different gaits and shoeing
    for horses that are too trotty or (more often) too pacy.  
    
    If you toe weight a horse that truely does an even running walk then
    you will cause your horse to dirft toward the trot.  This is exactly
    why the Walking Horse industry is breeding for pacy horses if they want
    to weight or pad them for big lick or plantation shod horses.  These
    horses will tend to be very pacy without the aids.  
    
    On to head nod and overstride.  I realize that the running walk
    requires both headnod and overstride.  I am simply stating that you can
    put so much overstride and head nod on a horse at the flat walk that
    you create a horse with an awful flat walk to ride.  These are the so 
    called loose moving horses.  
    
    There is another way to create big overstride.  Our Walking Horse
    stallion has the second biggest overstride and the second biggest
    stride of any walking horse Eldon has charted yet has a very nice flat
    walk.  He also has less overstride at the flat walk then most walking
    horses.  He increases overstride with speed.  This option offers you
    the best of both worlds - a good riding flat walk and a big striding
    running walk.  Least you think that our stallion is just a very tall
    horse so has a longer stride due to that he is not.  He stands a mighty
    15 hands and was charted trail shod.  Yet he outstrides the 17 hand
    horses.  His overstride is 35" flat shod.  His stride is 90 " flat
    shod.
    
    I am sorry to hear that the IPWHA is going to limit registrations to
    TWHBEA horses only in the future.  I think this is a big mistake.  The
    running walk and trail rack go hand and hand.  If you want a fast
    intermediat gait then a horse will have to go to racking.  Headnod will
    decrease with speed, that is just mechanics.  The many time world
    champion speed racking stallion, Speck, does a beautiful runnign walk
    when he slows down.  I love Speck so have him on video also doing both
    gaits.  He is my ideal of a true running walk and trail rack.  He is
    very Roan Allen to me.  He speed racks in perfect form.  He also has a
    wonderful comfortable flat walk. 

    
    	Your stud must have the correct [ie short] length back for
    	a TWH if he's got overstride and a comfortable walk. When
    	the flat walk feels like a seasick camel ride, chances are
    	the horse's back is overly long.
    
    	IPWHA is not going to be accepting horses for registration
    	based solely on the fact that they have already been registered
    	as RHBAA racking horses, that's what I meant. IPWHA is at odds
    	with TWHBEA right now, by the way. I believe IPWHA will be doing
    	their own breed/gait inspections prior to accepting a horse for
    	registry, thus closing the books to RHBAA horses UNLESS they pass
    	IPWHA inspection indepenantly of their RHBAA inspection.
    
    
    	If you want a load of information, I suggest you get your hands
    	on a copy of The Biography of the Tennessee Walking Horse by Ben
    	Greene, founder of TWHBEA. Written in 1960, and never reprinted,
    	this is a wealth of information about the breed's beginnings, and
    	without the padded perspective, since it was written before horses
    	were built up like they are today. It gives color and breeding of
    	ALL foundation horses.
    
    	Sherry
    

Why do we always have to deal with people bashing one registry over the
other?  Why can't all people who own these horses, and love them, just
be content to enjoy their wonderful horses?  We have more registries that
are always putting out dirt about the others than any other breed I
know.

Also, please don't associate past ills with current leadership.  As an
example, just because older trainers sored their horses does not mean
that current trainers do so.  Also, for what it is worth, the big lick
horses are so concerned about their diminishing control that they are
pushing for a big lick representative similar to the lite shod rep that
is in TWHBEA.

I do get tired of local clubs fighting, national clubs fighting, and
the resulting people fighting because they refuse to look at the person
and not the organization.

That was just my 2 cents.  I happen to love the breed and will do all
I can to promote it in the area.  I don't believe saying ANYTHING 
negative is toward this benefit.  Honesty is a valued asset, but
to people who may be considering the breed, bringing up the past does
not give us a good picture.  After all, just look at other breeds like
Saddlebreds.  I would be willing to bet they have just as many problems
as TWH horses have.  They have just not gotten the publicity.

So, back to the great discussion of gaits and ways to improve them.  It
is nice to have another person who is knowledgeable in this area
contributing.

Ed..

    
    	Ed, I politely request that you back off. This conference is
    	about OPINIONS and information, and although I might have given
    	MY OPINION on TWHBEA, I did NOT say anything about staying away
    	from them. I simply said that my personal beliefs about showing a
    	TWH do not fall in line with their beliefs, as a way of explaining
    	why I belong to IPWHA and RHBAA but not TWHBEA. It's NO BIG DEAL,
    	so please don't rathole this interesting exchange we have been 
    	having. 
    
    	Sherry
    

    
    
    	I have some information that I would like to share 
    from the Voice (a Tennessee walking horse Magazine).. 
    
    	If any one has read it this month issue was used to 
    inform people about the consequences of soring a horse.
    
    	o There were fines
    
    	o Disqualification if a horse showed up at ring sore or had 
    	  been sored.
    
    	o Removal from the TWHBEA.
    
        o Fines for selling a horse that has been sored. 
    
    	The next three issues are suppose to have articles on soring
    	what your rights are etc... 
    

    Re .97
    People have been TALKING about preventing soring TWH's for 20 years but I
    don't think talk has stopped anybody yet. If they're just getting
    around to enforcement, it doesn't say much about their desire to stop
    the practice does it?
    
    Re .95 & .96
    Yes, please don't rathole this. There are people who were enjoying the
    discussion about gaits even if they aren't TWH people. 

    
    	I think it is noble that TWHBEA has cracked down on 
    	people who sore - HOWEVER, there are trainers who play
    	a game with this - if 5 `tickets' = disqualification, 
    	they'll go merrily along until they've been caught 4
    	times, then suddenly the horse appears being shown by
    	a new, clean, trainer, and so on. It's a big game to 
    	some of them and the horses still suffer. Check out 
    	Plantation Exclusive, they print the USDA reports every
    	month and you can follow a horse's progress through 
    	various trainers this way.
    

    re .99
    
    That's exactly the kind of thing I meant. That's NON-enforcement! If
    the breed associations were serious about preventing soring, they'd
    suspend the trainer and owner the FIRST time they were caught soring any 
    of their horses. Five 'tickets' is 4 too many!

Several things if I may

 - First, by you folks jumping on anyone who tries to stop you from bad
   mouthing an organization you are just as guilty as you claim they are.
   From now on, please take the tack that if you cannot say something
   decent about an organization - any organization - then don't say anything.
   There is no need for this constant bashing - some people have personal
   grudges against an organization and have no concern about putting them
   down regardless of the current leadership.

 - Second, if you read the current issue of the VOICE you would see a pretty
   good synopsis of the Horse Protection Act.  One of the things it states
   is that the FIRST occurrence is punishable.  It is up to USDA to decide
   whether to pursue punishment.  This includes active soring, AND ANY
   evidence of previous soring.  This includes the following:

      - Transportation to a show
      - Entrance in a show
      - Intention to enter a show
      - Being just the rider
      - Transportation to a sale
      - Sale of a horse
      - Intention to sell
      - Being just a side person helping out also makes you guilty

   This includes sores, AND scars.  So, a horse that was sored previously
   now becomes ineligible and illegal.

 - Third, Let us always keep an open mind to people noting in here.  You have
   driven (yes, driven) some people out of the discussion because of your
   unrelenting attitudes and feelings.  Please, this is a forum for ALL
   views and one view should not be blasted because you don't agree with it.

As for the ability to show an unregistered horse.  If a registry does not 
require that horses entered meet it's standards, then the registry is nothing
but a sham.  It is absolutely critical for a registry to maintain a solid
standard and ENFORCE that standard.  I mention this because of Sherry's horse
that she says is not able to be registered in TWHBEA because it was sold
without the papers.  However she was able to register in another registry,
and now shows against registered horses.  In my opinion (and this is just
my opinion) this should not be allowed.  A walking horse class should require
that the horse be registered in the requisite organization(s).  Otherwise,
what is the purpose?  If I can start my own registry and put my horse in
it, then I can show any horse in any class.

It is also difficult to use New England show judging as a barometer of the
true quality of the horse and it's gaits.  Unfortunately we do not have
enough walking horses around the area to get the good judges to work the
shows.  As a result, we sometimes get horses put over other, better quality,
horses.  This happens because maybe the judge has a different idea of the
standard than it really should be.  Or maybe a particular horse has shown
alot and as a result it is believed that this is what the standard should
look like.  If the horse is quality, then that is good.  But sometimes a
marginal horse will confuse the judges.

My ideal would be for the judging to be supplied by TWHBEA or some other
equally qualified organization.  Then, you would know that the same standard
is used all over.  However, many factors prevent this - not limited to cost
and logistics.  All we can do is keep trying to educate the judges to the
standards and helping them to recognize the various gaits (which is not always
easy when the judge may be seeing them for the first time).

Ed..

    
    How about a brief description of "soring" and "scaring"?
    
    L

As the VOICE describes it, the following are the case:


   - Soring - This encompases primarily one main method where a cut (or
        sore) is created on the front of the foot.  This sore is then
        kept sore (and painful) by putting mild acid or salt or other
        concoctions on.  The intent was to make the horse try to fling
        it's foot to get rid of the iritant.  This gave the "action"
        that was desired.

        The Horse Protection Act defines this as follows:

          1. an irritating or blistering agent has been applied, internally
             or externally, by a person to any limb of a horse.
          2. any burn, cut, or laceration has been inflicted by a person
             on any limb of a horse.
          3. any tack, nail, screw, or chemical agent has been injected by
             a person into or used by a person on any limb of a horse, or
          4. any other substance or device has been used by a person on any
             limb of a horse or a person has engaged in a practice involving
             a horse and, as a result of any of these practices, a horse
             suffers, or can reasonably be expected to suffer, physical
             pain or distress, inflammation, or lameness when walking,
             trotting, or otherwise moving.....

          The above definition of "sore" does not include therapeutic
          treatments by or under the supervision of a veterinarian.

   - Scar - The USDA regulations define this as having bilateral (both
            legs) granulomas (focal lesions formed as a result of
            reaction to inflammatory agents), or other bilateral
            pathological evidence of inflammation on the pasterns
            indicative of soring, including, but not limited to, excessive
            loss of hair on the front pasterns or bilateral areas
            of uniformly thickened epitelial tissue in the "pocket" on
            the rear pasterns.

            The key word under the scar rule is "bilateral".  The scar
            tissue must appear on both feed and must be on the pasterns.

There are other regulations that define prohibited devices.

This law, and it's resulting regulations, apply to ALL horses, not just
walking horses.  As I understand, some other breeds have similar problems
with trying to artificially obtain "action".

Some of the above was excerpted without permission from the September/
October 1992 issue of the VOICE Of The Tennessee Walking Horse magazine.


Ed..

    Ed,
    
    First of all, you are the one who is jumping on people who have
    opinions that differ from yours.
    
    Secondly, you are just as guilty as anybody else of bad mouthing other
    people/breeds/associations. Just re-read what you said/implied about
    Saddlebreds a couple notes back. 
    
    If you can't stick to your own rules, don't expect us too!
    
    John

    Besides that, I just re-read the notes that you implied were bad
    mouthing registries other than their own. I found NO(count 'em! ZERO!)
    statements that were derrogatory to other associations. 
    
    Dan said that he no longer uses certain registries because he feels
    their emphasis is different than his because others are not breeding for
    strong genetic gait factors in their horses. Nothing wrong with that.
    
    Sherry didn't say anything about registries that could even be
    misinterpreted as bad mouthing somebody else. She mentioned several
    different organizations and their differences in registration
    practices, etc. I found it interesting and informative rather than 
    offensive.
    
    Why are you so up tight about this? Nobody's attacked anybody!
   

	Okay, Ed, here's my last response to you. And there's a note
	for everyone at the end, just go straight there if you don't
	want to read the whole thing.

	TWHBEA did not write the Horse Protection Act, I think we all
	know that. As for dodging the consequences - Iron Sky Farm in PA
	was just caught soring a horse, and the owner volunteered to take
	the ticket so that the trainer would not get ticketed and could 
	go on showing that horse, as well as the other horses in the barn.
	What kind of regulation is that?? (go verify it thru USDA if you
	want to.) It's fine to have rules but not if they don't get used!


================================================================================
Note 115.87                  Tennessee Walking Horse                   87 of 104
MPO::ROBINSON "you have HOW MANY cats???"            95 lines   2-NOV-1992 13:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>	My horse is registered through the Racking Horse Breeders
>>	Assoc of America, and also IPWHA. I do not have anything to 
>>	do with TWHBEA, I feel that they drive the exploitation by
>>	promoting padded horses above all else. As far as I'm con-
>>	cerned, they're not even worth talking about. 

This is my opinion, and I am entitled to it. I did NOT say `don't belong
to TWHBEA.' Many people belong to all three organizations, that is their
perogative. So what? 

>>	My gelding IS a purebred TWH from down south.
>>	it. He was sold without papers because it would be illegal to 
>>	show him as a TWHBEA registered horse with the scars that he
>>	has. That doesn't mean he's not a TWH - and there are plenty
>>	of people out there who have wonderful Walking Horses that can
>>	only be registered through RHBAA and IPWHA. I don't think it's
>>	fair to say they're not Walking Horses because they're `only'
>>	registered as Plantation or Racking horses.

RHBAA and IPWHA horses go through a rigorous testing and judging process
given by a certified individual to assess their qualifications before 
registry. The focus of this judging is the RUNNING WALK. If the horse 
doesn't do it, he doesn't get registered. My horse does a better running
walk than some of the other horses out there, and he beats them in Model 
which is a judgement on who is the best PHYSICAL and TEMPERAMENT example of
the breed. Now, how do you suppose he placed in that if he doesn't qualify?
TWHBEA is not the ONLY registry out there, and all shows in New England 
specify that a registered TWH class simply has that - `registered 
horses'. It never says that the horse has to the TWHBEA registered. My horse
is registered, and that's that. How do you think Paints get registered? 
Their physical appearance is just as important as who their daddy was, it's
the same principle.
 

================================================================================
Note 115.84                  Tennessee Walking Horse                   84 of 104
MPO::ROBINSON "you have HOW MANY cats???"            54 lines  30-OCT-1992 08:41
                                 -< Welcome! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>>    	As with any breed, or specialty breed, the industry will always be
>>    	divided into disparate factions. In our case, we have the bad boys,
>>    	the Padded Horses, . (Let me
>>    	just add the disclaimer that I do NOT condone Padded or heavy 
>>    	Plantation horses - they are am embarassment to the industry, BUT
>>    	they are out there nonetheless and we have to deal with them). 

I don't think you can take offense at this; again, it's an opinion, and I 
don't think there is ANYONE is this notesfile who would not say the same
thing. I also don't see any mention of TWHBEA here...     

================================================================================
Note 115.96                  Tennessee Walking Horse                   96 of 104
MPO::ROBINSON "you have HOW MANY cats???"            12 lines   4-NOV-1992 11:39
                    -< Please don't take it so personally! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>>    	Ed, I politely request that you back off. This conference is
>>    	about OPINIONS and information, and although I might have given
>>    	MY OPINION on TWHBEA, I did NOT say anything about staying away
>>    	from them. I simply said that my personal beliefs about showing a
>>    	TWH do not fall in line with their beliefs, as a way of explaining
>>    	why I belong to IPWHA and RHBAA but not TWHBEA. It's NO BIG DEAL,
>>    	so please don't rathole this interesting exchange we have been 
>>    	having. 

Gee, I've said this at least twice by now and it's not getting me anywhere.
I did not create this confrontation, we were all doing fine about it until 
you jumped on my case. 

I have truly enjoyed being able to share my knowledge about TWH's when I
am asked questions in here, and you and Donna have gotten a lot of answers
from me. Unfortunatly, I can see that my input is not only not valued, but
you negate anything I have to say. I've been helpful to you whenever I could.
I think there are a lot of people who have been interested in learning about
a breed they know nothing about, and it's a delight to share information. If
anyone else has any gait, training, or breed questions, please send me mail
because I no longer feel that I can enter responses in this note.     

Sherry

	My horse is registered through the Racking Horse Breeders
	Assoc of America, and also IPWHA. I do not have anything to 
	do with TWHBEA, I feel that they drive the exploitation by
	promoting padded horses above all else. As far as I'm con-
	cerned, they're not even worth talking about. 

The above is from reply #87.  This is what prompted my comments.  I get
very tired of the old statements.  If I over-reacted, I apologize.
However, when my wife tried to tell what was being done to continue
alleviating and stopping the problem, the following was written:

from reply #98

    People have been TALKING about preventing soring TWH's for 20 years but I
    don't think talk has stopped anybody yet. If they're just getting
    around to enforcement, it doesn't say much about their desire to stop
    the practice does it?

How does this person know that it is only talk?  How do they know that
people are not being fined heavily and having privileges removed?

from reply #99    	

    	I think it is noble that TWHBEA has cracked down on 
    	people who sore - HOWEVER, there are trainers who play
    	a game with this - if 5 `tickets' = disqualification, 
    	they'll go merrily along until they've been caught 4
    	times, then suddenly the horse appears being shown by
    	a new, clean, trainer, and so on. It's a big game to 
    	some of them and the horses still suffer. Check out 
    	Plantation Exclusive, they print the USDA reports every
    	month and you can follow a horse's progress through 
    	various trainers this way.

The above is not correct, by the way.  As I wrote in an earlier reply,
the law and regs on this issue are quite clear and quite strict.  They
do enforce on the first occurrence.

from reply #100

    That's exactly the kind of thing I meant. That's NON-enforcement! If
    the breed associations were serious about preventing soring, they'd
    suspend the trainer and owner the FIRST time they were caught soring any 
    of their horses. Five 'tickets' is 4 too many!


From the above, can you see where I felt that the following was being
considered truth?

 - TWHBEA is guilty of soring in today's environment

 - Any enforcement is a joke

 - Things are no better

 - Don't use them, they are not worth it?

 - Current membership and leadership does not want to change and is not
   enforcing the laws (which, by the way, are enforced by USDA, not TWHBEA)


Also, in my note I gave alot of added informatin about other things, like
judging, that was totally ignored.

If I was unfair to the Saddlebreds, then I apologize.  I was told by trainers
that they have similar problems.  But, without proof, it is just as unfair
for me to assume their guilt as it is for me to be frustrated at folks
assuming our guilt.  I stand duly chastised.

What I am trying to say is that TWHBEA deserves the same respect and
consideration that all of the other registries deserve.  And yes, I 
suppose this is a hot button for myself.  I did try to be objective
in my message.  I do feel, however, that if you cannot say anything
decent about a particular registry (or group or person or whatever)
then you should not say anything.  Also, DEC policy is pretty strict
on negative recommendations.

This reminds me of the breed vs don't breed issue in Canine.  It gets
just as heated, and is just as difficult to discuss calmly.

Ed..

    Ah! So, that's it....you were on about the soring not about the
    comments in the gait discussion...
    
    From .107

>From the above, can you see where I felt that the following was being
>considered truth?
1> - TWHBEA is guilty of soring in today's environment
2> - Any enforcement is a joke
3> - Things are no better
4> - Don't use them, they are not worth it?
5> - Current membership and leadership does not want to change and is not
 >   enforcing the laws (which, by the way, are enforced by USDA, not TWHBEA)

    Re point #1: Nobody said or implied that TWHBEA is guilty of actively
    soring horses.... In fact neither of the notes you quoted even accuse
    TWHBEA members of soring. I quote from .99 
    
    "I think it is noble that TWHBEA has cracked down on people who sore"
    
    True, USDA may be in charge of enforcing the CRIMINAL penalties against
    people but the breed/show associations have MUCH more clout because
    they can suspend people's privleges of showing at breed approved shows and
    registering/transferring horses,etc. Since those activities are the 
    primary sources of income for trainers, such suspensions(especially if
    they were long term suspensions) would be far more effective than having 
    some federal agency try to get a conviction in court or something. 
    Anybody who was soring would have to clean up their act or get out of the 
    business.
    
    And those are just the kinds of things that don't seem to be enforced
    even though .97 lists several things that are along those lines. The
    main problem with the rules outlined in .97 is that the VICTIM(i.e. the
    poor horse who was sored) seems to get the worst of it... I wonder what
    happened to the people who sored Sherry's horse? The horse is permanently
    barred from TWH competitions even though he's a great horse... Where's
    the justice in making the victim and his future owners pay the penalty
    for someone else's abuse?
    
    Re points 2, 3 and 5: That's pretty self-evident isn't it? In addition
    to the case that Sherry mentioned, I remember reading that USDA had to
    close down an entire show for soring. As I recall it, they believed
    that people were soring and not getting caught. People were icing the
    feet to hide the heat that soring causes, etc...So the USDA brought in
    infrared scanners and found that such a high percentage of the horses
    had been sored that they closed the entire show. I think it was in CA
    but I can't recall any details of show name/affiliation,  or peoples' 
    names.
    
    Re point #4: That's your conclusion. Nobody else voiced such a thing in
    relation to soring.
    

    Hi, I am back again.  I don't think that any breed bashing has gone on. 
    In fact everyone here seems to have a great respect for the TWH no
    matter what registry they belong to.  
    
    On the other hand there needs to be some bashing of the people who do
    sick and cruel things to horses for ego, greed or the show ring.  If it
    had not been for a group of people yelling long and loud then there
    would have been nothing done about soring today.  It sure didn't come
    from the inside.  
    
    I suggest anyone wanting to know ALL the things soring, stewarding and
    other such abuses include buy the book "Big Lick Walking Horses".  It
    is new and it is about what is going on now and why the system of
    TWHBEA DQP's policing themselves isn't working well.  You don't have to
    believe what is in theis book, but then you don't have to believe what
    the Voice tells you either?  But you should be open minded enough to
    read both sides.  Once you read this book or visit a barn and crawl
    past these "Do Not Enter" signs in the barns, you will understand why
    everyone is so upset.  The book costs $11.95   P.O. Box 5739   Santa
    Barbara, CA  93150
    
    People's lives has been at risk to put this book out.  What most people
    think of as soring doesn't touch the tip of the iceberg. 
    
    It might be interesting to note that soring is becoming rather common
    in Fox Trotters also and has been reported in Spotted Saddle Horses
    also.  I also get reports from coast to coast that soring is common in
    Plantation shod walking horses and also now found in some lite shod
    horses.
    
    Big Lick Horses are Big Money and once you understand the depth of the
    politics and I even mean on a state level, you will understand why it
    isn't going to stop under the system in use now.  I did read the Voice
    article and there were a couple of things in there that remind me of
    the double talk that went on when TWHBEA also allowed all those tobiano
    pintos to be registered out of solid mares.  
    
    The fact that I have very little respect for the handling of the big
    lick horse soring situation does not mean that I don't have a great
    deal of respect for the breed.  I have spent a lot of money and time
    promoting our stallion and now he is internationally known.  He has
    gone a long way toward changing the minds of people with a bad opinion
    of the walking horse.  
    
    If you own Walking Horses then soring is going to be a subject that
    comes up.  It if stops being discussed then we can look forward to a
    return to what we had 15 years ago.  People are more clever about
    soring tricks now.  It hasn't gone away.  If the TWHBEA wanted to put a
    stop to soring then why do they keep throwing up all the roadblocks,
    spend so much money fighting to defend the Big Lick so hard, and put
    such limitations on just what can be and how it can be checked?
    
    I have no problem bashing these people since what I do to them doesn't
    compare with what they do the the horses to satisfy their greed or
    egos.  They are in the same category as drug dealers.  
                    

I agree that what those people do is wrong.  I guess I would like to
think that they are in the minority now, and not the majority.  I have
seen the big lick folks getting worried because the lite shod and
pleasure horse divisions are getting so prevalent.

If I saw a horse being sored, I would not hesitate to push that person
the full extent of the law.  This is only right.  And if possible, I 
would force that person to endure what he/she was making the horse endure.

I just wish people would look at TWHBEA for what it is trying to do and
what it has accomplished and try to feel a little good about it.  After
all, things are better.  Over the last 2-3 years the organization has
made a considerable turnaround.  I don't know enough about the DQP process
and other areas like that.  I keep trying to learn more.  And I appreciate
that it was outside groups that forced this to come to a stop.  But, why
punish the majority because of the minority?

I think the membership has shown it's beliefs when it voted against the
use of rim bands and pads for lite shod horses.  They did not want these
horses to be mini padded horses.

I also agree that if a person is found to be guilty under the Horse
Protection Act, they should lose their show privileges.  Maybe for 1 year
with the first occurrence, and more harshly thereafter.  I agree this
would seriously cut down on the happening of this.

What I don't understand, also, is why judges place these high stepping 
horses over the more natural walking horses.  This just does not seem
natural to me.  Am I missing something?

I was thoroughly enjoying the gaiting discussion, although I will admit
that I did not understand all of it.  But, the more I see and learn,
the more that comes into understanding.

I will definitely try to order the book that was mentioned.  I do like to
think of myself as being open-minded.  I guess I get short-tempered when
I perceive someone else being close-minded (and sometimes that is only
my perception and may not be reality).


Ed..

    
    
    	I have a questions on Showing.....????
    
    
    	It seems that when I attend a class in New England for 
    	Tennessee walkers and a Flat walk is asked for (everyone
    	in the class dog walks).. 
    
    	If I have my gaits right, this is incorrect.  In PA, when
    	they ask for a flat walk - That's what you get.. 
    
    	Are you suppose to enter the ring at a flat walk or a dog walk?
    
    	When you line up in front of the ring master are you suppose to 
    	park out?
    
    	If we are doing the wrong thing in New England can we give the
    	steward a list of what TWH are suppose to be doing, before we
    	enter the ring?
    
    	Thanks
    	Donna

    Could you explain to the rest of us what you mean by a "flat walk" and a
    "dog walk"?  To me, a "flat walk" is an ordinary, low, long strided
    walk.  The sort of walk you horse does when he's poking around the
    paddock, or the sort of walk you'd be at on a trail ride.

The Ben Green book "Biography of The Tennessee Walking Horse" referred to back 
in .94 appears in Barbara Cole's latest catalog. Particulars are as follows:
"Nashille, 1960, Parthenon Press, 1st edition; very good condition; $60"

Just to save you the trouble of looking in the Book Dealers topic, her 
phone number is (919)772-0482. She doesn't take credit cards but will hold
the item(s) for you to send a check.

    Thanks for the information on the Ben Green book.  I also got the Ohio
    Pleasure Walking article on gait.  I don't know why all these people
    have to try and make gait so complicated.  When did the running walk
    and the rack become diagonally timed?  These gaits are evenly timed
    gaits.  Also in the Racking horse discription on gait they call it a
    bi-lateral gait.  What on earth is a bi-lateral gait? 
    
    I still have to suggest that wnyone who doesn't still want to be asking
    about the differences in gait 10 years from now should get the Eldon
    Eadie video and follow it up with his series in 4 BEAT magaine.  This
    magazine covers all gaited breeds and anyone who has studied gait the
    way Eldon has or even close to what he has agrees with him completely
    no matter what breed.   
    
    Eldon's video makes it so simple and if you watch it in small sections
    it can become clear is easy steps.  If you watch his video you will be
    able to see what gait a horse is doing no matter what breed.  Most
    gaited horses are multi gaited and can do a fox trot, running walk, and
    trail rack.  With his video you will be able to see what gait the horse
    is doing quickly no matter what breed the horse is registered with.  
    
    The discriptions of timing were wrong in the Ohio article.  The Fox
    Trot is not 1-2-3-4.  It does have 4 beats, but the timing is 1--2 3-4. 
    It is not an even gait, it is diagonally timed.  Idealy the running
    walk and rack are even 1-2-3-4.  The Peruvian gait is 1-2 -- 3-4.  All
    these gaits are 4 beats, it is only the timing that changes.  The
    footfall pattern is the same.  The timing dictates what gait the horse
    is doing not registration papers. 
    
    I believe that there are two reasons for so much confussion around
    gait: First, if people saw how simple it all is and realized that all
    gaited horses are multi gaited, then it makes it harder to justify the
    "Mystery" of a breed.  Second, so many people write articles parroting
    information they don't undersand rather then making a study of gait. 
    It is just so much more fun to throw terms around then it is to
    understand them.  
    
    All I can say is that since Eldon's articles on gait and on the
    genetics of gait my own breeding program has leaped ahead by
    generations.  I know that all the information gets confussing and
    sometimes you just want to give up, but Eldon is the ONLY one that
    makes sense because he backs up every statement with video footage to
    prove it and clearly defines his terms.  His genetics of gait theory
    also works for all gaited breeds and he sure has taken the hit and miss
    out of my breeding program!  

	Took this from this morning's paper:

	The New England Tennessee Walking Horse Association is sponsoring
	a Walking Horse Hey Day/Play Day on Silk Farm Road, Concord [NH], on
	June 27, starting at 9 a.m. (rain or shine). Points from this show
	will be accepted for the National Versatility Program for Tennessee
	Walking Horses (TWHBEA). The judge will be Dale Seidel. Visitors
	are welcome and will have an opportunity to see Walking Horses of
	all sizes and descriptions performing in 24 classes, including
	Pleasure Driving, Gambler's Choice Driving, TWH over Fences and
	Trail Class (2 gait, E-Z Rider). For information, call [603] 225-4848.

    
    
    	I am interested in joing Northern Tennessee Walking horse
    	Club.. 
    
    	Can someone give me the address or the phone number to 
    	call for a membership form.. 
    
    	Thanks 
    	Donna

    After reviewing all of the entries, it appears that the Tennessee
    Walkers enthusiasts have all gone away.  I hope this isn't the case.  I
    have 3--2 geldings (5 and 13) and 1 yearling.  Anyone keep up with the
    events showing Tenessee Walkers?  We are having trouble cennecting with
    the right folks.  I would be interested in
    hearing about your Tennessee Walkers.
    Chris Haughey
    

    
    
    
    	I am still here... there is not alot of show walkers can attend, in 
    the ma/nh area.. I can give you a listing for area of about 10 shows.. 
    
    I show my mare in showmanship and explain to the judge that she is a
    walker ( I do okay but they really don't understand the breed, I guess)
    this is in normal class c/b show.  
    
    I will gladly send you the information..
    
    Donna

    
    	I'm still here, too. I just threw away a class list for a WH
    	afiliated show in ME, do you want it?
    
    	I taught my horse to trot last year [he can also still do a 
    	running walk], so we are showing hunter instead of walker.
    
    	Sherry
    

    Donna,
    There is a show August 7 not far from here.  Are you planning on
    attending?  My wife and I have hooked up with another stable who breeds
    Tennessee Walkers.  He says that there are special classes for them in
    New England shows.  The one next month I will be showing one of mine
    (my wife will show him) and riding for the other stable.  He has a
    stallion that is >17 hands and needs a fairly big rider.
    Anyway, off to a conference call.
    
    Chris

    Sure.  I would like to see it.  I have a couple of geldings and a
    yearling that I want to show, but am at a loss for show dates.  Some
    friends of ours up here breed them and show them not only here, but at
    "the Celeration" in Tennessee.  I'm not sure that our yearling will be
    ready for it, but one of my boys might be.  I have heard that the
    classes for Walkers are quite small.  Is this true?
    Chris

    
    
    
    	Walker class - are usally around 6 or less.. in New England.
    
    	The show your talking about is Keene NH right?
    
    	I tried my saddle suit on the other day and with being 4 1/2 month
    pregnant I can say its a little snug.. 
    
    	We might be going up to watch.. show entries are 15.00 a class. 
    
    	Donna
    	

    Yes.  Keene is the place--where ever that is!
    
    Chris

    Keene is in the SW part of New Hampshire. It's about 50 miles west of
    Nashua on Route 101. There's a fair grounds on the south side of the
    "city" which is where most shows are held.

    
    
    
    	It's not really far from westminister- 
    
    	donna

	From Westminster, take Rte 140 West (north?) to Rte 12 North.
	12 goes to Keene; it might take 40 to 45 minutes. The Cheshire
	Fairground is actually on Rte 12, before you get to 101. It's on the
	Swanzey line (in my brother's backyard - there's a trail
	through which you can get into the fairground for free...but
	don't tell anyone!)

	I have the show announcement at home - I'll try to remember to
	bring it in tomorrow and enter it in the events note.

    I'll probably be at the Cheshire Fair August 6, acting as groom for
    my friend.  She's hoping to take her Freisan colt in his first show (well,
    second as he was 'tested' as a weanling by the Dutch registry people
    if that counts as a show).  She'll be taking him in the Open Colts and
    Fillies division.  Anyone who's going, look us up, if you a see a Freisan
    around it's likely us, and she drives a dark green Dakota towing
    a grey/white Keiffer.  Hopefully Boaz won't act up badly and we
    wont be embarrassed to have visitors. :-)
      

    It looks like I will be showing a friend's stallion in the two-gait
    class.  I don't think you could miss us.  He is a black stallion 
    over 17 hands and I am
    6'5".  My wife might be showing our gelding (Coin's Black Boy) but I'm
    not sure that he is ready.
    Chris