Conference noted::equitation

    
    	boy i dont know, i know how to work them so that they
    trot and not pace....
    but canter...??$#@!!. she is an older horse!! i had a x-pro barrel horse
    (25 yr old) and you couldnt teach her anything, she was old and
    figured you do things her way or not at all.
    
    the only thing i can think of is to lunge her with a whip, or
    get her when shes really high and lunge her, or
    if she jumps rush her thru a jump and see what the out come is.
    or just trot her til she breaks?????
    
    god i would proably leave her the way she is i have such a soft
    spot for foals and older horses.
    
                	wendy o'
    

    I used to have a standardbred-cross mare who I got when she was
    of indeterminate age, but at least 16. When we first got her, it
    took 4 people to keep her from doing whirlies when you tried to
    climb up. She did eventually learn to "pseudo-canter" but it was
    never a true canter, unless she was jumping. She did however have
    a wonderful trot (as yours does) and an even better pace (which
    was GREAT on long trail rides!) I guess that unless you plan on
    showing her, why bother trying to teach her to canter? It will probably
    be a very uncomfortable gait for her and with her being a little
    older, discomfort is probably not what she really wants. Not to
    mention the fact that she has probably been bred and trained that
    it was taboo to canter so.... enjoy her trot and pace!
    
    Happy rides,
    
    Linda

    
    I agree with Linda, trying to teach her to canter now, at her age
    and after all the training she went thru learning how NOT to canter,
    would be so unnatural for her. 
    
    Re-training her and changing her already developed techniques could
    risk her attitude, she may not enjoy being riden if she is constantly
    pushed to do something that is so wrong for her, rather than confuse
    her and put a damper on an otherwise enjoyable ride, I would let
    her be the way she was trained to be for 18 years.
    
    Enjoy - Standardbreds can be super riding horses!
    
    Jenny             

    I had the same experience as Linda....my first horse was a standardbred
    cross and he had a wonderful trot and pace....he also learned a
    pseudo-canter which was EXTREMELY uncomfortable and unbalanced.
    Nevertheless, I had many fun years of trail riding and hunter paces,
    etc.....at the trot.
    
    By the way, he was only 9 when I got him and never raced!  I doubt
    you'd ever convince an 18 year old x-race horse to canter.....
    
    Jeannie    

    
    
    
    As one who owns and breeds STandardbreds, I took my trotter off
    the training track and converted him to saddle.  Even though he
    trots versus pacing, the cantering problem was there.  I also
    had an 18 year old broodmare (pacing) that wouldn't canter.
    Remember that these animals have been trained to only trot or
    pace and most have been reprimanded for cantering.  Cantering
    or galluping is a no no.  It is pychological, not physical.
    It takes time, patience, and persistance.  I even talked to my
    blacksmith about shoe weight, toe lengths, and heel angles and
    changing them to encourage cantering just as they can be modified
    to encourage trotting or pacing.  Also, most of these critters
    will canter and gallup gleefully around the paddock when you are
    not on their back.  My standardbred stallion associates the
    saddle with the harness.  It's business as usual!  When under
    harness or saddle, you do not canter.  However, he doesn't
    regard riding bareback as the same thing so if you're brave
    enough to try it bareback without getting thrown, you can try
    that.  The only other way I can recommend to break a pacer into
    a canter is that every pacer has a top speed at which they pace.
    If you can push them at the pace fast enough they will eventually
    break into a canter just as they do on a track when they've hit
    their pacing speed limit.  This method has been the most successful
    because the horse figures you've pushed them past what they can
    do and it's o.k. if they mess up and center.  But make sure you
    let them know that what they have done is o.k. with you by
    rewarding them with praise so that it might get easier and easier
    to canter in the future.
    
    Happy cantering!
    
    

    I have owned several standardbreds off the track, that I have used
    as competative trail horses.  The method I have used to teach these
    horses to canter is actually quite simple.  Take the horse onto
    a trail or in an orchard where there are small hills, and trot 
    down the hill.  As soon as you hit the bottom, give him an extra
    push, and he should fall right into a canter.  Give him plenty of
    praise, and before long he will get the idea.  Right now, I have
    3 standardbreds that have come off the track, and I have taught
    them all to canter this way.  Standardbreds are wonderful horses,
    and I am sure you will enjoy yours!  Good Luck.  
    
    Linda
    
    

	Thank you all very much for your help and suggestions. I
	was a little discouraged when I read "don't do it" so many
	times. But I've thought a lot about this, and I'm
	afraid that 18 years old isn't "over the hill" for a horse.
	I get the impresssion that some think so. It's just into
	middle age, and if I was told I couldn't learn anything
	new when I was 50 I'd be upset! Especially when it seems
	to be coming up on me fast! Yes, I understand that it's
	not only the age, but the fact that she's had 18 years of
	"behavior modification" and it's not going to be easy to
	modify it in the opposite direction.

	At any rate, I'm going to try to get her to canter, with
	gentle but firm encouragement, tricks (a la reply .6!), and
	rewards. If she is terribly uncomfortable actually cantering,
	then I will not persist. But I have to try, especially since
	I've SEEN her canter in the paddock!!

	I've talked, now, to quite a few people who have gotten
	standardbreds off the track and "taught" them to canter, and
	all but one feel that the horse enjoys it. And seeing her	
	reaction to having to cross water the first time (just a
	trickle!), having to go into the woods the first time,
	being patted and coddled, I KNOW she likes new things! And
	I bet she'll rise to the canter!

	So, whether I take your advice or not, I want you all to know
	that I appreciate the time and effort you put into giving it.
	I think this notes file is one of the best things that could
	happen to a horse owner. Thank you!

	-julie

    Julie,
    
    Just have to comment on the "age" bias.  I am totally on your
    side!  I have a 19 year old TB/QH gelding.  I've had him 7 years.
    He used to be an eventer and last year he got a back injury which
    totally eliminated eventing and dressage (first prognosis was
    total elimination of everything but walk/trot)  However, at
    18 he was still fighting for his right to jump!  He overcame
    all odds, and started jumping again.  
    
    We switched to low hunter.  We are now talking a whole new
    discipline for him -- he no longer can jump and make it --
    he has to look pretty and put in proper striding and he
    loves it.  He looks upon it as a whole new game and something
    new to learn.  He's placed at almost every show he's been in
    and he at 19 and me at, well -- well over 35!, are both having
    fun learning new things.  I've had to switch from dressage seat
    to hunter seat to accomodate his back and he does have to show
    at lower fences at shows (However, at home he does 3'6" and 3'9")
    but he's not bored because he gets to really jump and for
    the first time in his life he's in an arena with lots of
    horses (those flat classes can be b-i-g!).  So at 19 he's
    learning and experiencing new things and he and I figure 
    he's going to continue doing this for a long time.
    
    So I say forget the age of the horse -- it's the attitude that
    counts and if she's willing, go for it.
    
    Dawn