Conference noted::equitation

    As long as we are discusing this. I saw an ad in one of my horse
    mags for a company that sells a kit for one horse for one year that
    has a schedule and wormer for every other month. It costs about
    $34. I don't remember the name the phone nuber started as 1-800-WORM
    something. Has anybody used this and know if it's good? 
    
    I just bought some NEGABOT-PLUS and plan to use tonight but I'd
    rather have a year long plan. Right now I'm just piece mealing it
    at every other month making sure not to use the same chemical each
    time. liesl

    
    
    Here is the worming schedule from the Rochester Equine Clinic.
    
    February-  Equipar
    
    April-     Ivermectin
    
    June-      Panacur
    
    August-    Equipar
    
    October-   Ivermectin
    
    December-  Strongid T
    
    

    
    
    		ok thats great!!!! looks  like i've been doing things
    right.... 
    		thanks for that schedule, now when i go shopping i 
    dont have to close my eyes and punt. :^)
    
    			wendy.
    

    THE "DEWORMER" KIT FOR $34. I WOULD BE AWFULL CAREFULL USEING IT.
    TO BUY GOOD PASTE DEWORMERS IN A TUBE IT USUALLY RUNS ABOUT $5.00
    AND UP IN COST PER TUBE.
    
    I WOULD ALSO BE VERY CAREFULL USING "NEGABOT" DEWORMERS. THE PAST
    IS STRONG AND I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT IF TO MUCH AT A TIME IS GIVEN
    I CAN HURT THE HORSES MOUTH. 
    
    I HAVE ALL MY FARM ANIMALS ON A DEWORMING PROGRAM EVERY 2 MONTHS.
    AND I ALTERNATE THE MATERIAL BEING USED. BE CAREFULL WITH THE 
    BENDAZOL PRODUCTS. THESE HAVE BEEN USED SO MUCH IN THE PAST THAT
    THE ANIMALS NOW ARE BUILDING UP IMMEUNITIES TO THIS BASE PRODUCT.
    
    REMEMBER, THE NAME ON THE TUBE IN NOT ALWAYS WHAT THE INGREDIENTS
    ARE THAT ARE IN THE DEWORMER. 
    
    AND IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF ANIMALS ON A SMALL AREA, THEN THEY SOULD
    BE DEWORMED AS OFTEN AS EVERY 6 WEEKS.
    
    BUT IT IS ALWAYS BEST TO CHECK WITH YOUR VET AND SEE WHAT THEY 
    SUGGEST.
    

    
    	Re: .4
    
    	Yup!  yer rite about the "negabot" wormers...  When I first
    	bought Cody I wormed him out - but later I found (to my horror!)
    	Bots in his manure... about an inch or so long and as round
    	as my index finger.... yeck!  So I went out and bought a 
    	Bot wormer....  it was a Farnam product...  ended in 
    	"TZ" something...  He colicked very bad... one minute
    	he was standing and the next like his feet were pulled out
    	from under him.  He was very sick for two days - I almost
    	lost him.  It was because he was loaded with them and I 
    	did a mass killing and his system couldn't handle it.
    
    	Susan

    Don't know if negabot wormers should be condemmed. It would appear
    that whenever a horse has a heavy infestation of any type of worms
    the application a wormer may have an adverse effect. This was also
    true foe ivermectin which is supposed to kill worms in the blood.
    The dead worms (small ones) settled in the lower torso of the horse
    and made it appear swollen for a couple days. It would appear that
    if a horse has a bad infestation the vet should handle the treatment.
    
    bobk
    

    Well I did give Taffy the negabot and I must have done it somehwat
    incorectly as she started sticking her tongue out and opening her
    mouth wide. I didn't know what else to do so I took her outside
    and hand grazed her for about an hour. Every several bytes she would
    raise her head and open wide again. As time passed she finally stopped
    and I out her back in her stall and gave her some hay. later she
    seemed fine and there have been no problems since. I'm a little
    nervous about next time though.
    
    About the ad from the super wormer company. They say you get brand
    name wormers. Eqvalan is one they mentioned. I take it no one has
    tried them? I agree the price seems low. I paid $8 for my last tube
    of Eqvalan and $11.25 for the negabot. liesl

    VERY SORRY TO HEAR THIS ABOUT YOUR HORSE SUSAN. I FEEL THAT IN THE
    26 YEARS WORKING WITH LIVESTOCK, MAINLY HORSES, SHEEP, AND A LITTLE
    CATTLE THAT WHEN YOU NOTICE A PROBLEM OR EVEN NOT A PROBLEM THAT
    IT IS ALWAYS BEST TO CHECK WITH YOUR VET. MOST VETS THAT I HAVE
    DELT WITH DO NOT MIND GIVING YOU A LITTLE ADVICE. ESPECIALLY IF
    THEY ARE YOUR ANIMALS VET ALREADY.
    
    HOPE THAT HE'S DOING OK NOW...
    
    TERRY

    CHECK YOUR INGREDIENTS,
    
    IN JUST SITTING HERE THINKING I DO BELEIVE THAT EQVALAN AND IVERMECTIN
    WILL TAKE CARE OF BOTS. I AM GOING TO ASK MY VET TOMORROW.

    My vet told me that sometimes the Ivermectin/Eqvalan offered through
    catalogs is priced per 1000 lbs.  The price seems low until you
    realize that those products come in, I believe, 1200 lb/treatment
    tubes!  So, the actual cost per tube is more expensive!
    
    Merrie

    Re: .10
    
    We buy all of our wormer (cases of it) by vet supply houses and
    have always found the price to be as advertised.  That is to say
    that if you by a tube with multiple doses, it is advertised at the
    tube rate as opposed to the dose rate.  Sometimes however they do
    make comparisons with other suppliers so read the fine print.  I
    prefer to use the extended base products because there is less chance
    of the horse working all of it out.  The multidose tubes apply such
    little doses that a flip of the tongue and you've lost half of it.
    
    In regards to a horse sticking out its tongue, opening its mouth,
    or "flemming" (turning up of the lips) after application.  I wouldn't
    worry since it seems to be a normal reaction at least half of the
    time.  Take a little taste of any of this stuff and you'll understand
    the reason why.  It tastes just like...  Well you get the idea.
    
    Ivermectin does kill bots but there is some discussion of whether
    it takes care of strongyles esp. in young horses.  Bottom line is
    to rotate active ingredients on a schedule and stick to it!
    
    Bob
    

    
    
    My understanding from the clinc was that if the schedule they
    set out was followed, bot wormers weren't needed because the
    other wormers would get them.  My vet also cautioned me that
    all but the bot wormers can be used frequently, sometimes
    overdosing, without any ill-effects.  However, the dosage is
    very important with bot wormers and they can cause problems
    if too much is given.
    
    I have decided to follow the clinic's worming schedule with
    bi-monthly stool checks.  I think this is the best way to
    find out what type of worms are present (if any) so that you
    know what to worm for.  A stool sample check is around 7.00
    and can be dropped off at the vet's office.  For my three
    horses that are pastured together day and night, I do one
    sample and assume they've got pretty much the same worms,
    except for the babies which probably have ascarids which 
    aren't found in adults.
    
    I've decided that rather than guessing what wormers to use,
    it's best to check for what type of worms to worm for.  This
    is probably the safest way.
    
    Linda
    
    

I just called my vet last week for her recommendation for a worming program.
She cautioned me against using any products with Trichlorfon (ie: Negabot) as
many horses have a toxic reaction to this drug which includes excessive 
salivation and a droopy incoherent behaviour and she has treated many horses
with these symptoms.  She said many tackshops and feed stores do not carry 
wormers with this ingredient because of it's toxicity.  She suggested rotating 
Ivermectin/Strongid/Telmin/Eqvalen/Panacur.  My horse is due for Telmin and at
the feedstore I found Telmin-B with Trichlorfon!  This IS confusing!  I 
purchased Telmin not Telmin-B and called the vet about it.  She said not to use
Telmin-B.  

As someone else said in this topic, you really have to do your homework with 
all these different products and know the name of the drug!  

I asked about stool samples and she said not to put too much trust in the 
results - the stool may not show eggs/worms because the worms might just be
dormant/non-active at that time and your horse could still be infested.

Now my question - I have a tube of Telmin and a 6 year old gelding who is not
patient about anyone fussing with his mouth.  How do I get said tube of Telmin
in said horse without wearing it or ingesting it myself?  A friend holds her
horses tongue to do it.  I highly doubt he will cooperate with this.  Any 
suggestions are appreciated. 

JB

    Hi Janice,
    One of my horses is like that about her mouth and worming, and if
    I ever tried to hold her tongue I hate to think what would happen.
    the way i handle it, and it's worked every time, is to let them hold
    their mouth closed, come into the mouth from the side, where the
    bit lies and squeeze.  She seems to get less upset if the syringe
    is in the side of her mouth vs. touching the end of her tongue and
    over her teeth.
    
    Good luck
    karen  

    
    	re .13
    
    	If all else fails, I've cut apples in half and then cut out
    the centers place the wormer in the middle then place the cut out on
    top. It takes two or three apples to do this and it's been a life
    saver for me! Good luck,
    
    	Becky

RE: 293.14

	Hi Karen,

	With someone's help we did it the way you explained.  He just stood
	there and swallowed!  No problem.  

	Thanks,

		Janice

    The following worming schedule is from the Nashoba Valley
    Vet Hospital.
    
    Jan-Feb   Fenbendazole (Panacur)
    
    Mar-Apr   Ivermectrin (Zimectrin or Eqvalan)
    
    May-Jun   Mebendazole (Telmin)
    
    Jul-Aug   Pyrantal Pamoate (Strongid-T or Imatal)  Double Dose
    
    Sep-Oct   Oxibendazole (Equipar)
    
    Nov-Dec   Ivermectrin (Zimectrin or Eqvalan)
    
    Karen