Conference noted::equitation

    
    p.s.  Does anyone know where I could go to look at stall mats, either
    at a local distributor or maybe someone has them in their barns
    and would be willing to let me take a peek.  I live in Southern NH, 
    but would be interested in places to look at them in the New England area. 
                                                         
    Thanks Again.
    
    Sherry
    

    I do not own stall mats and have no experience with them. However,
    I did price one of them. The price was $46.75 for a 4' x 6' mat.
    Don't know the measurements of a basketball court but if it is 50'
    x 30' you are looking at 1500 sq feet or about $3000 dollars to
    cover it with mats. 
    

    There is a farm off of route 119 in Littleton Mass which uses stall
    mats with great success. I imagine that the owners would be willing
    to have you come in and see their stall layout. The farm name is
    Proctor Hill Farm. If you would like a telephone number, etc. please
    feel free to send mail!
    
    Linda

    	Hi Sherry!
    
    	Sorry I took so long to find this.. but here goes:
    
    	Chessco (the on that has the factory in Harford) PO Box 7222,
    	Bloomfield, CT  06002 - 203-234-9366
    
    	White Haven Farm - 175 Mechanic Street, Upton MA  01568 - 617-	
    	529-3384 - Donna White
    
    	Linear Rubber Products Inc. - 5525 19th Ave. - Kenosha, WI 
    	53140 - 1-800-558-4040
    
    	I am not sure what prices will be, only Chessco advertized trailer
    	mats (5/8" thickness) for $89.00.
    
    	Hope this helps...
    
    	Susan

    I have just received my first shipment of rubber stall matts from
    LINEAR RUBBER PRODCTS,INC.
    1-800-558-4040
    
    We use them in our use -to-be dairy barn(cement floors) . They work
    excellent .I highly recommend them. If you call the 800 # they will
    send you a free sample. Cost will depend on the volume that your
    buying. Mine started at 2.15 per sq. ft. they come in 5' x 10 /
    5' x 12' / 6 x 10 /6 x12.
    
    

    
    	Hi, can anyone give an estimated cost of stall matts, I may
    be able to afford it as I only have one 10 x 10 stall. Also where
    can they be purchased? And would it be o.k. to put down on a wood
    floor that is not bran new? Its in good shape.  
    
    	Thanks,
                Becky
    		

    Does anyone know where to purchase the black rubber mats that are
    used in stalls, and if so, do you have any idea of price?  I
    believe there is a place around the Foxboro area that sells them,
    but I have been unable to find them.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Linda
    
    

    
    
    Hi there,
    
    My husband saw them at I believe Fitchburg Tire.  They were about
    150.00 for 10x10 or 10x12 boxstall.  I'll doublecheck with him
    tonight.
            
    Linda
    
    
    

    
    
    Call Fitchburg Tire in Fitchburg Mass.  I guess they do have
    them.  My husband mentioned that 8' x 8' is $50.00 so you 
    will want to check for larger sizes.
    
    Goodluck.
    
    Let us know what you find out.
    
    

    Thanks Linda, I'll give them a call.  I also found another place
    in Hanover that is a distributor.  Its called Briggs Stable, and
    they sell 4x6 mats for $42, and if you buy 6 or more, its $40. 
    The number is 617-826-3191, ask for Dick Briggs.
    

    I talked to Fitchburg Tire, and the price they have on a 4x6 is
    49.95, but she needs to order more than one at a time.  If anyone
    is interested in ordering any of these could you let me know and
    maybe we could put a bunch together to make a big order.  I can
    be reached on WJO::KEIRAN or at 282-1702.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Linda
    
    

    
    	I am having a barn built next fall and I am also interested
    	in using rubber mats in the stalls...  (the stalls will only
    	be 10'x10')  I haven't decided if the mats will be over cement 
    	with drains - or over wooden floors...
    
    	I live in Antrim, NH and if anyone knows of a place that sells
    	mats in the NH area - I would 'preciate it!  
                         
    	Susan

Agway stores sell "Happy Cow" mats which are suitable for horse stall
mats.   The price is comparable to others described in this note.
There are three Agways that I know of - one in Peterborough, another in
Keene, and a new one in Antrim (?).

-Melinda

    I asked my vet about stall mats recently. She said to watch out
    for the ones with a smooth surface. She knew of a horse who slipped
    in his stall because water has sloshed out of his bucket and onto
    an area of the mat where there weren't too many shavings. He broke
    his leg. She did say that the kind with the rough surface is okay.

    	RE: .6
    
    	Thanks Melinda..  I will check with the Agway in Hillsboro!
     	I really didn't even give them a thought...  Peterboro and
    	Keene are not far from me either.
    
    	I will check with them and post their prices here..
    
    	Susan

    I called Agway in Northboro, MA and they didn't have them in stock
    but could put in a special order to have one made.  The only problem
    being that it will cost me $70.  To save myself $28 I may just drive
    to Hanover and get one there.

    
    	I did call Agaway in Hillsboro, NH and they carry some sizes
    	of rubber mats in stock... (The person I spoke to didn't know
    	the company's name - but perhaps this is the "Happy Cow" mats
    	that were mentioned...)
    
    	The sizes that they carry in stock are - 47 1/4" x 72" - $58.95
    
    						47 1/4" x 66" - $54.95
    
    	They have others available - but you would have to order them
    	and they would charge you shipping...
    
    	The other info that they offered on them - 4lbs per square foot
    	and 3/4" thick.                
    
    	Susan

    Susan,
    
    I ended up ordering the same mat that Agway in Northboro was going
    to charge me $70 for by getting it through Agway in Chelmsford for
    $58.95.  I guess it pays to call around!

    re:11
    
    	Geesh, you would think that if you call one Agway - they would
    	all charge the same - after all - it is the same company!
    
    	Susan

    
       I am thinking of putting mats in my stalls also.  In the previous
    replys there is mention of full size mats 10' by 10' or 10' by 12'.
    The other size being talked about is 4' by 6' panels.  My question is,
    What would be the best way to go?  Full size (stall size) or panels.
    What would the pro's and con's be?
    
                                    Thanks,
    
                                     Julie

    
    	RE: .13
    
    	I think that I would like the larger ones - but for transport
    	and installation purposes - I will be getting the smaller ones.
    	
    	If you have a large barn (with big doors) and you can get them
    	transported for you - the one piece construction would be great.
    	With no cracks to fill up with various "substances" and no urine
    	leaking to your sub-floor.
    
    	Susan

    Has anyone used rubber mats for aisleways and grooming areas? Do
    they work well?

    
    I just called Linear Rubber Products Inc.
    1-800-558-4040
    
    Their rubber is an EXCLUSIVE volconized nylon reenforced rubber.
    I was told that each mat would pay for itself in 1.5 - 2.5 years.
    This is based on bedding prices of 3.50 - 4.25 for shavings. Also
    you reduce the amount of bedding to 1/2 the amount of you currently
    use after installing the mats.
                                 
    I was told that they are the only company that will ship a 12X14
    stall size in only 2 (6x14) pcs. I asked "what about one piece,and 
    was told that the total weight would be 504 lbs. for 12x14 and too 
    heavy to be practical for shipping and installation. They have been
    in business for 19 yrs and these "top of the line" mats are gauranteed
    for 10 yrs. Shipping would cost $50 from WIsconsin to NH for the
    first mat and $40 for the 2nd and $30 for the 3rd etc. The more
    mats ordered the cheaper shipping becomes.
    
    They also carry what they call "ECONO mats" that are
    (4x6) and do not come with a gaurantee.
    I found it interesting when told that if I used 4X6 mats that with
    all the seams...eventually urine would get under the mats along
    with shaving and expand which causes the mats to curl up on the
    corners and you'll have a stall full of mats with curled up edges.
    The sales persons honest opinion was the ECONO mats weren't worth
    having.
    
    I was quoted $378 for a 12x14 stall of 2 (6x14) pcs.
    and $440 for a 14x14 stall mat of 3 (5x14) pcs.
    
    I hope this information will be valuable to the next person 
    inquiring about mats.
                                              
    

    I talked to Linear also, then I looked at mats locally (PA). I ended
    up getting the local mats because they were 1/2 the cost without
    the shipping charges, the edges were thick enough with ribs underneath
    to prevent them for moving. They came in 5' X 7' peices which still
    required two people to move them. As for the urine problem they
    discribed, it just hasn't happened. The mats are laid over crushed
    limestone just incase anything gets thru the cracks. They settled
    into the stone dust and stayed inspite of having a pawer and stall
    walker on them right from the start. I guess what I am saying is
    shop around, don't beleive everything they say, after all, they
    are trying to sell the most expensive mat I found on the market.
    Sandy
    

    I have recently moved my horse to a new barn which I like very
    much- large, well-lighted stalls, wide aisles, high ceilings,
    and very immaculate. The only problem is that the floors are concrete 
    bottoms, and while the shaving are about 6 inches deep, I notice that 
    the cement in the middle is discolored- like damp. (I had to kick the
    shavings around to find this thought). Now I know the barn owner
    cleans frequently and well. However, I have read somewhere in this
    notesfile about mats that are specifically made for the concrete
    floors. 
    
    Can someone either point me to that file, or give me some info
    about the mat, such as how expensive, where does one purchase it,
    how do they work, and are they worth the investment. 
    
    Thanks ahead of time for your help.
    
    Pat
    

    I have mats in all my stalls, and am quite happy with them.  They cost
    about $45-$50 for a 4'x6' mat.  For a 10x10 stall, this means 4+ mats
    to cover the floor.  While they are an excellent covering for cement
    floors, they do have the problem of not draining.  Neither does the
    cement, of course, which is why you see wet spots on the floor (which
    you would see on *any* floor for that matter).  You will necessarily
    have seams between the mats, and the urine will seep under the mat and
    the stall can get quite "smelly".  This can be avoided by either hosing
    out the stall (not possible in most setups) or using lime or something
    like Sweet PDZ to counteract the odor.
    
    My stalls have dirt floors under the cement, and still I find that the
    mats hold the odor a bit.  I've found another wonderful benefit to
    these mats, however.  I had a boarder in my previous barn whose horse
    stocked up all the time, and for a while he was in a stall with a rubber
    mat with very little bedding.  We had heard that mats would stop this
    problem if used with little or no bedding.  And it *worked*.  Seems its
    the resiliency of the rubber that does this, sort of exersizing the
    legs with each step.  This benefit is lost somewhat with lots of
    bedding, since the horse is no longer walking directly on the rubber.
    
    Anyway, if your concern is the hardness of the floors, rubber is a good
    cushion.   If your concern is a wet spot, you won't get rid of this
    with rubber.
    
    
    -ellie

There's another kind of mat for cement floors which is made of a harder rubber
material and isn't solid so the stuff drains through to the floor.

I don't know anything about them except that I saw them advertised in some 
recent Practical Horseman magazines. I think Bruce Davidson is the celebrity
pictured as using these mats... Its a full page ad; maybe someone who has the
magazine could post the ad???

    I bought Protector stall mats. If you call them at 1-800-282-2822
    they will send you some very convincing info on mats. I have no
    wetness or smell problem with them. I rake off the dry top shavings
    and pick up the wet in the morning and evening. The mats can be
    installed very tightly together and if theres any crack it fills 
    and packs which seals it. I have found that the urine or even a 
    spilled water bucket is quickly absorbed by the shavings and nothing 
    gets through. Most people never lift the mats, even after years.
    
    Sharon S.

    in note 1418.4 I called the #800 you listed and it's not the right
    number.  Could you check the number for us again?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Lisa

    sorry I got them mixed up the 800 # is 800-782-5628. The local #
    is 812-282-2822.
    

    re .3  These mats are for use on dirt floors I believe.  They are a
    method of keeping the dirt from being dug up by your horse.  The rubber
    probably also adds some cushioning to the floor.  
    
    -ellie

    I have the 4x6 solid rubber mats in my stall, and they
    were the best investment ($45 ea-took 5 to do my 10x12)
    I ever made.  They make cleaning the stall a breeze, you
    use less shavings, and they are better for the horse.
    My horse sleeps lying down, and gets burn marks, bald spots
    and capped elbows from the wood or dirt floors.  I use 1/2
    the shavings I used to, and he is fine.
    
    Lynne

    I know this is an ancient note but I have a question about stall mats.
    We have been looking at various brands of mats to put down over our
    existing concrete stall floors. The mats come in a variety of thicknesses, 
    hardnesses and surface textures.
    
    We are sure that we don't want the thinner/harder ones. But we're not
    sure about the surface textures. The types of surface textures we have 
    found are:
         smooth
         diamond shaped indentations
         raised ripples like the soles of orthopedic shoes
         raised pebble texture like small(1/8" or 1/4") rounded pebbles
         raised button texture like 1/2" buttons
    
    Before deciding which ones to buy, I though I'd ask your experience
    with texture. So, the question is: "Which surface texture have you folks 
    found to be the least slippery for your horses?"
    
    Thanks
    John

    I have the "small rounded pebble texture".  It's not completely
    non-slippery, but it's a *lot* less slippery than, say, wood.  I've
    been very happy with these mats.  Also, it's only slippery when it's
    wet and has no bedding at all on it.  I usually keep a thin coat of
    shavings on top, so there's really no slippery spots at all.  
    
    My horses have access to their paddocks and they sometimes take off
    full speed out the door, and have no problems with slipping.
    
    -ellie

    The mats we have are ridged on one side and pebbled on the other...I
    like the ridges best I think although they are all slippery when they
    get wet.  And, whatever you wind up with, I'm sure you're going to
    love them.  I clean 10 stalls every day and the mats have made my
    life worth living again!
    
    gwen
    

    Thanks for the quick response!
    
    Michele(I think it was you),
    Do those diamond shapes fill up w/ bedding or lime? I would think so.
    If they do, is it hard to clean the gunk out of the diamond shapes?
    
    Ellie,
    Thanks. I would have expected the pbble texture to be pretty
    "non-slip". Are your mats the "Protector" brand or something local to
    your area?
    
    Gwen,
    (Our mats have ridges)...I didn't know "Ruffles" made anything but 
    potato chips! :-)
    
    Seriously though, I KNOW I'm gonna like mats. Thanks for your response
    the rippled/ridged mat was the one Jan thought would be best. But, you 
    must be Super-Woman or something cleaning 10 stalls every day on top of
    a job! That reminds me of two sayings I've heard recently:
    "Science has finally found something to do the work of 100 men! 50 women!"
    and
    "A man who says something cannot be done should not interrupt a woman
    who is doing it."
    
    
    Thanks again
    John

    rubber mats...best thing to have in the stall!
    
    I have the ones that are mini pebbled.....
    
    A 10x12 takes 5 4x6 mats, BTW.
    
    Lynne

    John -
    
    I think mine are the Protector brand, but I bought them from a local
    distributor (Dick Briggs in Hanover, MA).  I would really say they are
    not slippery.  Even when they are wet, the horse only slips on those
    fast starts out the door, and then it's no more than he'd slip on the
    dirt outside.  (He's kinda goofy....8^))
    
    -ellie

    John-
    
    THe diamond type mats we have look like the diamond plate chrome trim
    you'd put on a truck.  They don't seem to fill up with anything, but 
    there is always a little residue stuck to the mat where it was wet.
    
    To clean them we use a snow shovel and each stall takes about a minute
    or two.  We use those light weight plastic pitch forks to pick them out
    if necessary, and a leave blower to clean the isle.

    In addition to the stalls, we have one mat at the cross ties.
    Our aisle is dirt and the mat collects all the little ends
    of nails that the blacksmith leaves.  I'm really not compulsive
    but I don't like the idea of all those little pieces of metal
    just waiting to get into some place bad like a dog or cat paw
    or accidentally ingested (god forbid).
    
    With a dirt floor the mat also provides a clean area to put on
    hoof dressing or paint feet.
    
    State Line has these mats now, in a big stack right outside the door.
    I think they're $50 each.
    
    
    
    gwen
    
    
    

    Thanks again. Your comments helped us make the final decision. I have
    compiled information about 6 different brands of stall mats. 
    Maybe it will save somebody some time. The prices I have given
    are January 1992 prices as quoted by the various companies in their 
    brochures or over the telephone. They'll be higher by the time 
    somebody else needs this info, so consider the prices as "comparison
    only" numbers rather than absolute.


BRAND: Protector(White Horse Trading Company)
PHONE NUMBER: 800 stal mat (800 782-5628)
LOCATION: Kentucky
MAT SIZE: 4'x6'         THICKNESS:  3/4"     WEIGHT: 100 lbs
SURFACE TEXTURE: raised surface like small pebbles
CUSHION EFFECT: Very good
COMMENTS: Bottom surface grooved which may increase cushion effect. They
          will also send an informative booklet about stall mats.
WARRANTY: 10 YR (5 unconditional replacement; 5 pro-rated replacement)
COST FOR 10'x12' STALL: $220 at warehouse in my area(includes shipping) 
                        (5 mats)
COST FOR 12'x12' STALL: $264 at warehouse in my area(includes shipping)
                        (6 mats)
                        They use public warehouses in some areas but have 
                        local dealers in others. Therefore, prices will 
                        vary a bit depending on shipping costs and/or 
                        dealer markup. If you're in an area which has
                        no local dealer, you pay White Horse in KY and 
                        then pick up the mats at the warehouse. I would 
                        save about $18 per stall in sales tax because of 
                        that.



BRAND: RB Rubber Products
PHONE NUMBER: 800 525 5530 
LOCATION: Oregon
MAT SIZE: 4'x6'         THICKNESS:  3/4"     WEIGHT: 100 lbs
SURFACE TEXTURE: Reversible: smooth on ones side; ripples/ridges on the other
CUSHION EFFECT:  Very Good
COMMENTS: Dealers in some areas; Factory pickup or shipping possible
WARRANTY: NONE
COST FOR 10'x12' STALL: $180 at factory + shipping (5 mats)
                        $200 + sales tax at dealer in my area
COST FOR 12'x12' STALL: $216 at factory + shipping (6 mats)
                        $240 + sales tax at dealer in my area



BRAND: Underhoof(Atlantic Construction Fabrics, INC aka ACF, Inc) 
PHONE NUMBER: 800-448-3636
LOCATION: Virginia
MAT SIZE: 4'x6'         THICKNESS: 3/4"        WEIGHT: 100 lbs per mat
SURFACE TEXTURE: raised buttons(about 1/2" diameter)
CUSHION EFFECT: No sample but probably similar to the preceding two
COMMENTS: Bottom edge wavy and they claim this makes it stay put better.
          Smaller sizes available. Same compamny markets EQUUSTALL floor 
          grids
WARRANTY: NONE
COST FOR 10'x12' STALL: $260 + freight (5 mats)
COST FOR 12'x12' STALL: $312 + freight (6 mats) from Richmond VA, York PA
                               Chicago IL, Orlando FL, and Baltimore MD



BRAND: Black Beauty Mats
PHONE NUMBER: 800 969 3234 
LOCATION: Texas
MAT SIZE: 4'x6'         THICKNESS: 7/16"       WEIGHT: 60 lbs each
SURFACE TEXTURE: Diamond shaped indentations in smooth mat
CUSHION EFFECT: No sample to check but it's the same material as most of the
                3/4" thick mats so I'd guess it provides less cushion than 
                they do.
COMMENTS: Has recesses on underside that they claim increases cushion effect
WARRANTY: None
COST FOR 10'x12' STALL: $155 plus freight(5 mats per stall)
COST FOR 12'x12' STALL: $186 plus freight(6 mats per stall)





BRAND: Muth Mats(K.W. Muth Company Inc)
PHONE NUMBER: 800 MUTHMAT
LOCATION: Sheboygan WI 53803
MAT SIZE: 5'x6'         THICKNESS:  1/3"      WEIGHT: 55 lbs per mat
MAT SIZE: 6'x6'         THICKNESS:  1/3"      WEIGHT: 65 lbs per mat
SURFACE TEXTURE: smooth
CUSHION EFFECT: Hardest sample we received. May not be a good enough 
                cushion for stalls with concrete floors.
COMMENTS: Rubber and polymer composition. UPS shipment - in cartons
WARRANTY: 10 years
COST FOR 10'x12' STALL: $238 + UPS shipping (4 mats per stall)
COST FOR 12'x12' STALL: $285 + UPS shipping (4 mats per stall)





BRAND: Soft Stall Mats(Linear Rubber Products)
PHONE NUMBER: 800 558 4040 
LOCATION: Kenosha WI 53140
MAT SIZE: 5'x12'        THICKNESS: 5/8"       WEIGHT: 180 pounds per mat
MAT SIZE: 6'x12'        THICKNESS: 5/8"       WEIGHT: 220 pounds per mat
SURFACE TEXTURE: Diamond shaped indentations in smooth mat
CUSHION EFFECT: Second hardest sample we received. May not be a good enough 
                cushion for stalls with concrete floors.
COMMENTS: Largest mat on market; seams overlap + glue together
WARRANTY: 10 YR 
COST FOR 10'x12' STALL: $258 + shipping
COST FOR 12'x12' STALL: $310 + shipping

    FYI -
    
    There is an ad in the "Want Advertiser" selling rubber stall 
    mats for $39 ea.  This is an excellent price, if they are
    what you are looking for....
    
    (I have the name/tel#, if you want it contact me offline)
    
    Lynne  

    OK. I've ordered our mats. We're wondering how we must/should change
    our stall management from what we're doing. What do you all do?
    
    Here are some of the things we thought might need changing:
    How much bedding do you use over the mats?(Every mat manufacturer had a 
    different recommendation) Any difference over concrete floors like we 
    have? How frequently do you clean up their wet spots and re-bed them? 
    How do you wet down their hay(for dust control) without getting the 
    mats/bedding wet and slick? etc etc etc
    
    Thanks
    John
    
    

    How much bedding?
    I think we tend to use a little less with the mats, but it depends
    on the horse.  I have one mare who rubs hair off the side of her
    hocks if she isn't bedded deeply enough.  In general though, I just
    dump one bag of shavings in if the stall has been stripped.
    
    Wet spots?  Every day.  Don't forget, the mats prevent the wet from
    seeping down into the dirt.  I move the dry stuff away and pick up
    the wet with a shovel.  If it's truly gross, I sprinkle lime.
    Especially in the summer.
    
    gwen
    

My personal feelings are that you don't really change the amount of bedding that
you use, but that the mats do a wonderful job of protecting the horse from 
what is under the mat.  It provides a pretty even surface (watch out for 
errant mat corners - if the mats don't fit tightly, shavings/sawdust get 
underneath and raise a corner) so cleaning goes pretty fast - you don't have to
worry about ramming a rock with your pitch fork ;^). On the other hand, 
if you have horses that pee a lot, there is no longer any drainage, so the 
shavings/sawdust must absorb all the  wetness, possibly requiring *more*
shavings/sawdust than before, unless you don't mind the entire stall being wet.

My horse has been on mats for 4 years.  I like them, but would *prefer* to see 
his stall bedded a bit deeper (other than that, I basically like where I board, 
though).  He's big, and fills his stall, so as he walks around, all the 
shavings end up on the edges and he gets bare spots in the middle, where he 
sleeps.  In the summer, when he is not blanketed, he gets a scurfy spot on his 
hip from lying down on essentially bare mat (and if he weren't orange to start 
with, he'd have a yellow left hind quarter. ;^))

Some people with mats just sprinkle a few shavings where the horse pees and 
leave the rest of the stall bare. You'll have to experiment a bit and see 
what works best for you.  I'm curious to hear what you prefer.

(Our mats are over stone dust.  As far as I know, there has been no floor 
(below mat) maintenance done since the mats were installed (4+ years in the
section I'm in, longer for other parts of the barn).

    one wheel barrel of shavings goes in the corner each week, give or take 
    a few days- dependant on the horse.  We then pull as much as needed to
    cover the surface of the mat, more in wet areas, less in feed areas.
    If the horse pees in the stall alot, then more is required for
    absorption.  We haven't noticed anyone rubbing hair off from laying
    down.  Lime stalls as needed.
    
    In my own barn, I will probably use the same pratices and may use more
    shavings, but it will depend on cost I suppose.
    
    Clean up is a cinch with a snow shovel.  6 stalls can be cleaned in
    15-20 minutes.  It dosen't matter if the are messy or not, beacuse
    you can take the entire bedding out in a few shovel fulls and replace
    is just as quick.
    
    For 6 stalls we tend to fill 2 wheel barrels of used bedding and waste
    material.  

    My gelding is big, and lies down a lot, so I tend to keep
    his stall deep, even with the mats.  
    
    Pretty much on the lines with .45
    
    Lynne

    
We got all the mats installed. So I thought I'd post a note about the 
installation so the next folks that tackle this know what their in for. We 
used the 4'x6' 3/4" thick rubber mats. They weigh about 100 pounds. If 
you're used to handling hay bales and 50 lb feedbags, you won't have too much 
trouble moving the mats. Ya just sorta slide/drag 'em around rather than 
lift/carry them. However, CUTTING them is a different story! You will get 
very tired and most likely sore too from the cutting. More about that later.

Time: about 15 minutes per mat to measure, cut and install each mat;
      For a 10'x12' stall, you'll install 5 mats which will take about
      1 HR and 15 minutes. 12'x12' 1:30 ; Allow another 15-20 minutes
      for setting up and cleaning up. So, 1 stall would take 1.5 to 2 hours

      If you're putting mats in an occupied stall, you'll have to strip the
      bedding out, sweep up the fine stuff and maybe level the floor. In our 
      case, we had 8" of bedding over concrete. It took a little over an hour
      to clean out each stall. We only had one stall where the floor wasn't 
      level. The concrete job was pretty bad in the corner of that stall.
      It had a couple humps that stuck up above the rest of the floor.

      I just took some mortar mix (the stuff that's used between bricks and 
      cinder blocks) and poured it around the humps. I didn't mix it with 
      water; just used it for fill. Then I smoothed it out to blend the 
      humps into the rest of the floor. You could do the same sort of thing 
      for hollows in concrete floors but I'd mix it w/ water for hollows.

Tools:
     1. A HEAVY DUTY utility knife - A "cheapie" will break doing this kind 
        of job
     2. LOTS of extra blades for the utility knife - I ended up changing 
        blades after each cut
     3. Tape measure
     4. A piece of chalk for marking measurements on the mats. I used regular
        blackboard chalk but tailor/dressmaker chalk might work if you have
        that instead.
     5. 4' metal ruler/straight edge
     6. A long piece of 2x4 lumber (7' to 8') 
     7. A short piece of 2x4 lumber (3' to 4')
     8. Carpenters chalkline(optional but a real help)

Procedure:

     We were told to start at the door and not to have a seam in the 
     doorway. We were also told that it's best to cut the mat into the 
     doorway. So the first one looked like this:
       ________________________
      |                        |
      |                        |
      |                        |
      |                        |
      |                        |
      __                 ______
        |               |
        ________________

      Take the measurements for the "tongue" that sticks into the door. 
      Transfer those measurements to the mat, marking with the chalk. I
      like to see what I'm gonna cut off so I actually drew the lines. You
      can do that with the chalk and straightedge but if you have a chalkline
      it's much easier. You stretch out the string over two marks(one at each 
      end of where you want the line), pull the string tight and then snap it 
      against the mat. You snap it by pulling up the string somewhere between 
      the two marks. 

      Once you have a line, you use the metal straightedge as a guide and 
      score the mat along the line using the utility knife. After you score 
      the mat, slide one of the 2x4's under the mat along the scoreline. Use 
      the long 2x4 for most of the cuts and the short one for the short cuts 
      around the door. 

      Have a helper press down on the mat to open up the cut you have just 
      made. Continue cutting the line. You can't cut very deep at once so 
      you'll have to cut over and over until you finally get through.

      The procedure is pretty much the same for the rest of the mats. The 
      rest are easier to set up for the cuts as most only require 1 straight
      line. But, the cuts are 6' long so they take a while.

      I measured and cut our mats to the nearest 1/16" so we'd get a tight 
      fit. That made it a little hard to put them in place because they 
      wouldn't just "flop" down. They'd catch on the edge of the other mats
      or walls. Here's where the 2x4's come in handy again. Stick one of the
      2x4's under the mat with the skinny edge up. That will bow the mat up
      in the middle. Get the edges in place and have your helper stand on 
      the edge of the mat. Twist the 2x4 so it turns flat and pull it out.
      (Brute force will help here but a woman can manage it; Jan did some of
      these tricks w/ the 2x4) You may still have to stomp on the edges to 
      get them completely flat.

      Plan your cuts so that the cut edges go up against the wall and the
      factory edges form the seams. That way even if you "goof" and your cut 
      comes out a little ragged, the seam will have a nice straight edge.

      If you're a desk jockey as opposed to a construction worker, you should 
      also plan on being tired and sore after you get done even if you do barn 
      chores regularly. My cutting arm and wrist took 2-3 days to get back to 
      normal. I also had a case of "housemaid's knees" from crawling around
      on the mats. ;-)

    
    Way back when I asked how those who already had mats managed their
    stalls, somebody asked that I tell you what we ended up doing. We're
    still experimenting but here's how we've started out.
    
    We had been using 8" of sawdust over the concrete to keep the horses
    from being injured by the floor. We were using 6 wheelbarrows of
    bedding per week in the stall of 1 horse(she doesn't drink much) and 8-9 
    wheelbarrows per week in the others.
    
    We've started off w/ about 1" of sawdust over the mats. We're not being
    real frugal about saving bedding when we clean stalls, so we've been
    using 2 to 4 wheelbarrows of sawdust per week in each stall. That's at
    least a 50% reduction in bedding use!
    
    Even better is that we save time! With 8" of bedding in the stall,
    mucking out was like digging for buried treasure! :-) We're saving
    about 1/2 hour daily plus 2 to 2 1/2 hours on Saturday which is when we
    would clean thoroughly and re-bed the 8". So, that's about 5 hours a
    week less time cleaning/rebedding stalls AND we get Staurday morning
    back!
    
    The time savings in stalls is really more than that but some of it got
    used up by other changes in management like hay. We've been wetting our 
    hay to control dust for years and years. We had been shaking it out in 
    the stall and then squirting it with a hose. We had to change that 
    practice for two reasons:
        1) The mats would get too wet and slippery
        2) I read an article in the Chronicle which said that squirting hay
           was much less effective than soaking hay for dust control.
    
    I couldn't think how I was gonna soak this stuff and then get it to the
    horses. Then, I remembered the "Horse in Sport" series that PBS
    broadcast a couple years ago. Ginny Leng's mother said something like:
    "We always soak our hay for 24 hours before we feed it out." The camera
    panned to somebody dumping hay bags into a bathtub filled w/ water.
    
    We modified the idea a little. We use nylon hay nets and one of those
    big old fashioned galvanized washtubs. We dunk each haynet for about 24
    SECONDS(not hours) and then hang it up to drain and do the next one. After 
    they drain, we dump out 1 net in each stall. Then, we refill the nets so we
    don't have to listen to TOO much angry stomping and whinnying at the next 
    feeding. 
    
    Anyhow, the result is thoroughly wet hay with no dust AND a dry stall.

    I put 2 of the 4X6 mats in my trailer, and boy what a chore that was.
    Cutting the first mat was tough, but after that it was a snap.  When
    it comes time to do it in my barn, I think I'll have to get some
    helpers :^).

    Re the amount of cutting to install mats.
    
    How much you cut will depend on the precise measurements of your stall.
    If it measures exactly 10'x12' or 12'x12' you won't have to cut at all
    unless you want the tongue into the doorway. 
    
    However, reality sets in... Most barns have the stall size determined
    by part of the supporting structure of the barn. By the time you
    subtract out that kind of stuff and the thickness of the planking on
    the walls and stall partitions, a 10'x12' quickly shrinks to about 
    9'6" by 11'6". Therefore you end up cutting 4 of the 5 mats you
    install. In a 12'x12' you get lucky and you only cut 4 of 6 ! ;-) ;-)

You can also soak hay in muck buckets.  Fill haybag, stuff into muck bucket, 
and then fill the 'gaps' with water.  A bathtub is probably much better if 
you're soaking for more than one horse, though.

As far as mats go, I think that the folks that own our barn did the cutting 
with a power saw, rather than a utility knife.

    I still keep a good thick layer of shavings even with the mats. I found
    that my mares hocks got the hair rubbed short if I didn't.  She likes to
    lie down a lot and I'm sure it's more comfortable for her too.
    
    In a previous reply it was mentioned soaking the hay for 24 hours. I
    can imagine pulling it out after that length of time and seeing a tub
    full of brown nutrient filled water. I would think all the goodness of
    the hay would be lost to the water. Of course if your going to give
    them that water to drink I guess it wouldn't matter...? 24 hours seems
    too long.

    Re: cutting stall mats w/ power saw. All the mat manufacturers I talked
    specifically told me NOT to cut the mats with a power saw. One of them
    told me why but I have forgotten the reason. But, I do know that a
    friend of mine cut her mats with a chain saw and I didn't like the
    results! Crooked lines, ragged edges and big gaps(The cut of a chain saw 
    makes is about 3/8" wide!) Kinda like trying to do brain surgery with a 
    meat cleaver.
    
    Re: 24 hour soaking. Great minds think alike ;-) I also thought that
    soaking hay for 24 hours would leach out all the nutrition in the hay.
    That's why we settled on 24 seconds! I was quoting Ginny Leng's mother
    when I mentioned soaking hay for 24 hours.

             We cut our mats with a power saw and had no problems.
    It was very easy and quick.  The only thing is you must be
    very careful because the saw will bind up, also the stench of
    the rubber is awful.  Just be sure to have someone experienced
    do the cutting and you sho0uld be all set.
    
                  Bob

    I forgot to mention the most important benefit I've seen from
    installing stall mats. The horses' fetlock joints no longer get puffy!
    
    I had attributed this puffiness to age(they're all 16+) and lack of
    exercise because the puffiness would disappear by the time the walked
    to the far pasture(5 min?). Boy, was I wrong! 
    
    It must have been the deep bedding over the concrete. Now, their joints
    look as good as any 3 yr-old's

    Has anyone encountered problems with uncovered rubber stall mats 
    and boriums?
    
    This past summer we installed mats in the barn aisle and tack room
    (although not in the stalls, which I didn't feel was necessary),
    over a clay base. I do not use shavings or anything else on top of
    them, but I suppose I could if it would protect them.  Someone told me 
    that I may want to pull them up for the winter before they get torn up 
    by my mare's winter shoes - but this 'source of info' isn't the most 
    knowledgeable person in the world so I thought I'd ask a few more 
    opinions first. :-)  My pony/fugitive-in-diguise is barefoot, but my 
    older mare wears borium in winter and does a lot of traveling over 
    the mats every day - I'd rather pull them up now than go to the 
    expense of replacing them next spring.
    
    

    Hi Linda,
    
    I've always used rubber mats in my stalls, and though there's sawdust
    over them, my horses also wear borium in the winter.  I've never had
    a problem.  The rubber that my mats are made of is so dense, I can't
    imagine it getting dug up.  I'd keep an eye on them, if it looks like
    they're getting damaged I'd pull them up.
    
    Linda

    My mats have been down in the stalls for 4 years, the boriums don't seem
    to be causing any problem.  There is a slight wear at the center of the
    door wear the horses come in and out all day (they have a free run and
    are never locked in).  Where I bought the mats they were showning them
    to me, they had them in the aisles.  These did have excessive wear (the
    marbled top was worn off), but they were over 10 years old.  
    They still did their job though.
    
    I've heard some mats are thin and can't take much wear, I have the
    "Protector" stall mats, they seem thick and rugged.
    Sharon

    I also use stall mats, and you'll find that the 4x6 size is
    too heavy for one person to handle!  Any bigger and you'd
    never move them!  The mats at stateline seem to be pretty 
    heavy duty, but you'd need 6 to do one stall, and at around
    $50 each, that can add up quickly!  In the past I've put one
    4x6 right in front of the door and covered the rest of the
    stall with sawdust.  That seems to work pretty well also, just
    use enough dust so that you adequately cover the floor so the
    stonedust isn't getting dug up by the horse moving around the
    stall.
    
    Linda