Conference noted::equitation

    Oh I forgot all about him.  He is GORGEOUS, unfortunately my mare
    is Grey and I would be asking for trouble breeding Grey to Grey.
    
    Thanks for the info.  I would like to check on the Dun however.
    
    -M-

    RE:  .0   I have decided not to sell the service to Meadow's Hope
    and plan to breed my warmblood mare to him this spring.  I have
    some concerns her getting injured while she is being bred and hope
    that there are some people out there who have had some experience
    in this area that can lend some advice!
    
    I have seen the procedure this breeder uses as I brought another
    mare to them 2 years ago (several attempts didn't work...she was
    later put down due to complications).  This mare was dead quiet
    and it didn't bother me at all when they hobbled one front leg with
    a leather strap.  However, my mare that I plan to take this Spring
    is sensible but not really quiet.  She is also a little uncoordinated
    because of her size (she is 16.3 and very leggy)....shoeing her
    is a major feat...she has trouble balancing herself on 3 legs (although
    she is getting much better).  My dilemna is that because she has
    this type of balance problem on 3 legs, I'm afraid if they hobble
    her she will thrash and hurt herself.  I am not at all experienced
    in the area of breeding.  Is this type of hobbling a normal procedure
    and is it necessary?  Is there something else I could suggest to
    the breeder without offending them?
    
    help
    
    Jeannie

    RE: .9
    
    As a breeder I can tell you that suggesting methods other than what
    I do normaly will fall on deaf ears.  People and horses get hurt
    when you start changing your breeding practice.  My suggestion is
    that if you don't like the breeding management, don't breed there.
    I breed one mare a year outside as a part of my breeding program
    and I can tell you that I won't go near a stallion where the management
    program is not up to my standards.  That includes a program where
    hobbles are used since they create more problems than they cure!
    Thats only my opinion but I wouldn't try to convince someone else
    of that.  Its too much like arguing religion!
    
    Bob
    

    About the hobbles, I agree with -.1 that if you don't like the methods,
    don't do it, especially with a maiden mare who you have no idea
    how she is going to react. Most places where I have sent my mares
    to be bred will have hind shoes pulled, tease from behind a very
    solid wall and then if there is a tendency to kick is shown, a solution
    is discussed between the breeder and I. I have been fortunate in
    finding breeders who were willing alternate methods and also in
    having mares that when they were ready (be it for just 1 day), they
    stood fine. As a matter of fact with my last mare (who normally
    is a kicker), she would only stand still for 1 breeding at which
    time she took.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Linda
    

    re .7
    
    Forgive my ignorance, why is breeding Grey to Grey asking for trouble?
    Is there more to this than color?  Thanks for any light that is
    shed on this.

    I'm also not that informed when it comes to genetics, but yes
    Breeding Grey to Grey is not a good idea as it (from what I've been
    told) may promote Malanoma disease (sp) I'm sorry I cannot give
    the details of this, however I think it may spread like cancer?
    Is there someone else out there who could comment on this more?
    
    Thanks
    -M-
    

    Melanoma is a skin tumor/cancer that can occur in any horse but
    has a higher incidence in grey horses. It can spread, depending
    on where the tumor occurs it can be surgically removed and is not
    necessarily fatal. I wouldn't consider it a disqualification for
    breeding to a grey horse unless its line had a history of melanoma.       

    re:  .11,.12
    Thanks for the advice.....since I have already started losing sleep
    over the thought of my mare getting hurt, I have decided not to
    breed her after all.  Therefore, I am now looking for a broodmare
    to lease or buy inexpensively.  I would like a hunter-type appaloosa
    with a good temperament and nice movement (attractive, too).  Any
    leads would be appreciated.  
    
    
    

    Breeding grey to grey COULD lead to death, usually by absorption,
    of the foal.  In genetics, if white is dominant (WW), the condition
    is termed lethal white.  It's possible to breed grey to grey provided
    there is no white (that is, pink skinned white horses) in the ancestry
    that has caused such deaths -- although I'm not certain how that
    can be found out.  There is an excellent article in Feb. EQUUS about
    the color of horses -- has to do with lethal White, certain lethal
    roan mixtures to avoid, etc.

    I have a 13.2hh mare and rather than sell her and look for something
    bigger, I might consider putting her in foal.  I have a few queries
    though:-
    
        To produce a foal to reach 15.1-15.3 how high should the stallion
        be?  Will this be dangerous to her having a Stallion that might
        be too big?  What is the best time of year to put her in foal?
    
    Grateful of any comments you may have?
    
    Barbara

    
    When you start with a 13.2 hh mare and want a over 15 hand offspring,
    you would probably spend a lot less money and a lot less emotion by
    going out and buying a horse that is already 15+ hands. 
    
    There are no guarantees that you will get 15+ even if you would
    breed to a 17 hand stallion.  You could get anything in between
    in terms of height...  And who knows what as far as conformation.

    I encourage you to read some books on breeding horses.  Both on
    genetics, selecting the proper stallion for your mare, and on care
    of mare and foal.  Ensminger has a good book on general horse husbandry
    that has a section on selection.
    
    If you really like your mare, why not breed her to something of
    similar size and type and raise some pony hunters?
    
    Mary Jo    (who tried and tried to get a 14.2 hand baby out of her
               13.3 hand mare)

    I agree with Mary Jo...if you're specifically looking for size,
    you would be better off going out and buying a new horse.  If
    you love your mare and would like something just like her only
    bigger, it is possible that she would produce that for you.  But
    Mother Nature's motto is "you pays your money and you takes your
    chance."  You could get anything.
    
    I think what you will find if you talk to vets or do research on
    what happens when you breed a small mare to a large stallion is
    that nature will protect your mare.  I have a friend who bred her
    Shetland pony mare to an Arabian stallion with no problem.  As I
    recall the only trouble they had was convincing the mare to stand
    on a box. 
    
    Good luck, whatever you decide.
    
    Gwen
    
    p.s.  I just read my previous reply (.3) and noticed an error in
    my facts.  The 1987 Arabian National Champion Mare was Sheyteyna.
    She is by Bey Shah and out of Forteyna (by *Fortel).  And she is
    incredibly beautiful!
    

    Just to confirm what was said in the last two notes:
    
    We bred our 14.3h mare to a 15.1h stallion - and got a 14.3h mare
    out of that breeding.  We were hoping for at least 15 hands.  Since
    then we decided we will *buy* height instead of trying to breed
    for it.  We bought a 16.1h gelding for much less than it cost to
    breed the mare and raise the foal for 3 years!
    
    						Jan

    Breeding for size.  I agree and disagree with the past couple notes.
     You can upgrade the size of the foal from a small mare but it takes
    some research.  The most important thing is to breed to a stallion
    who has a history of throwing size.  For instance the Arab stallion
    Pomerol consistently improves on the size of the mare through his
    offspring.  I have seen several of his babies and all were an
    improvement in height. I also have a 15.1 hand filly by Pomerol
    out of my 14.2 hand mare.  A little research into Pomerol,s background
    shows that his dam was easily 15.1/15.2 and this is where the size
    is coming from in that pedigree.  The most important thing to remember
    si that traits don't "average out",  a 12.2 hand mare bred to a
    15.2 hand stallion is not going to give you a 14.0 hand foal.  So
    find a stallion that throws size, hope for a filly, then breed that
    filly to another stallion that throws size and you'll make progress.
     That is the challenge of breeding!

    
    I agree that in many cases if you take your average 14 hand mare
    and breed to a 15.2 or such stallion, your going to get something
    around the 14 hand range. There are some stallions however that
    just seem to be extremely prepotent to size. Leola the dam of First
    Secretary (Appaloosa) was only 15.1. Secretariat the sire was only
    16.1. First Sec stands 17.1. 80%+ of his foals are 16 hands or better, 
    many being 17 hands. These coming from mares of all sizes. If I
    could be assured of a foal reaching 17 hands, I'd breed my 15.3
    hd mare tomorrow. But somewhere along the line I think Murphys law
    would get me...
    
    Marianne