Conference noted::bicycle

     I know only one buddy with a VITUS frame. He likes it, but tells
    me that the thing "creaks". Particularly noticeable when cranking
    in a sprint or uphills. That's all I know. Reviews in the magazines
    are generally favorable with respect to reliability/quality.
    
     You're asking for trouble on component opinions. There are a million
    notes (and as many opinions) on component of choice and finishes.
    
      Chip  :-)

    Vitus' are nice bikes, if you're not too heavy.  I think 160lbs. is at
    the upper end for a Vitus frame (just my guess).  I've heard that if
    an aluminum frame bends, it's very difficult to repair.  That's your
    only risk with the Vitus.
    
    Component controversy?  Sure, I'll start it up :-).  Dura-Ace is the
    ONLY choice if you go for top of the line stuff.  Campagnolo sure
    looks nice, but hey, it's time to admit it, Shimano performs the best! 
    Any one disagree?  

re -1
>    Vitus' are nice bikes, if you're not too heavy.  I think 160lbs. is at
>    the upper end for a Vitus frame (just my guess).  I've heard that if
>    an aluminum frame bends, it's very difficult to repair.  That's your
>    only risk with the Vitus.

	When I was looking at Aluminum vs Steel awhile back I heard that
the max weight was 150 (In which case I would have required two frames) so 
this frame was not for me, however I wouldn't worry much about the second
point if Vitus is your passion.  Cannondale and most of the other
Aluminum's have a replacement warranty (for a price) where they will
replace a bent frame supposedly at cost (Use to be $150 for a C-Dale
but I'm told its up to $285 on the new 3.0 frames).
    
>    Component controversy?  Sure, I'll start it up :-).  Dura-Ace is the
>    ONLY choice if you go for top of the line stuff.  Campagnolo sure
>    looks nice, but hey, it's time to admit it, Shimano performs the best! 
>    Any one disagree?  

	I agree and disagree.  I'd put Dura-Ace on a Vitus, but wouldn't
think of desecrating something like a Colnago, Tommasini or Masi
with anything non-Italian. Haven't  you see the movie Breaking Away :-) 
    

    Make sure you take the VITUS for a good ride.  The bike certainly
    has a unique feel, probably due to the frame geometry.  I felt as
    if I was over the front of the bike too far.
    
    I have also heard that VITUS frames tend to wear out faster than
    other frames due to the nature of aluminum and the extreme light
    weight of the tubing.
    
    Try a Kestral 200 if you want something special.  It is quite a
    nice frame.
    
    steve
    

    I'm one of the growing number of people who has an Italian bike
    with Japanese (Dura Ace) components.  Of course, like everyone else,
    I had to have SOMETHING Campy on the bike to make it legal.  Rather
    than getting a Campy water bottle, I decided on Delta brakes.  
    
    MATT

    I didn't want to be accused of taking advantage of a divergent
    note to discuss the qualities of components (Paul Goodwin -
    you out there?). Since someone has done it already, well...
    
    I've got nearly 3K on my Chorus gruppo and love it. Admittedly,
    I have no experience with D/A, but to desecrate Campy is, in
    my mind, pure ingnorance :-). We're getting into a Chevy/Ford,
    McDonalds/Burger King, Republican/Democrat discussion. I know
    guys who are very happy with their far eastern bangles. But,
    to say that D/A blows Campy is absolutely sacrilegous! I agree,
    watch the TdF. I'll be the first to admit Campy doesn't do in-
    dexing (first hand) or clipless, but they've got their SH*T
    together everywhere else.
    
     Bye, bye from Campy-land,
    
       Chip  ;-)

    I have have a Vitus 979, but only weigh about 120 lbs so that may be
    some consideration.  I ride a fair number of hilly doubles and did BMB
    last summer but don't race.  I chose the frame based on comfort and it
    seems to be holding up.
                                                                        
    I have Super Record which was top of the line some years ago when I
    bought the frame, but don't find all this stuff about components and
    so on all that interesting - I'd go Japanese if anything wore out and
    the Dura Ace or whatever worked well and was reliable (note the word
    reliable: I have better things to do than tweak and tune exotic components.)

    I also have a Holdsworth framed bike (with fenders and stuff) and
    did in fact replace the crankset on it with a Dura Ace recently, being
    somewhat torqued off that Campy no longer sells replacement chain rings
    for the SR cranks.
                                                                        
    If you test ride the bike, (any bike where you are spending
    serious money) take it on a really fast downhill to be sure it is
    stable.  The one drawback to these light, flexible bikes in fast
    descents is that the frame can vibrate; you may have to hold your knees
    against the top tube do damp it sometimes.  We're talking 45-50 mph,
    below that there should be no problem - but it is a stringent and
    worthwhile test.

    - Jim

	I also have a vitus and enjoy the bike. I'm not a bike races just
	your typical triathlete, low on miles and try to push too big a 
	gear instead of spinning.

	I'm hard on the bike with my style. rough roads with cars equal
	hold tight and ride thru anything. With this banging I have not had
	any problem with the frame.

	I've had the bike for two years (2000 miles last year) and 2500 so far 
	this year.  I use the scott DH bars so my riding style may be effected
	differently from others bars.  All my riding is time trial type (even 
	group rides there is little drafting) and the bike responds well for 
	this type of rides. I feel so much better than after long rides with
	my old team fuji.  

	I love up hills and the bike does well there, I also don't feel as
	comfortable on downhill as I did on the heavier bike (I've never
	liked the down hills).

	I'm currently 150 pounds and have no problems, two years ago over
	the winter I went to 187 (3 months + no exercise over the holidays
	(due to foot surgery) = Blimp) and had no problem with the bike, but 
	then that was for a short time. I rode most of last summer around 160.

	I rode 125 yesterday and felt relaxed in the upper body right away on
	my run, This never happened on the fuji. The legs now that's another 
	story.

	The bike has D-A and 600 mixed.

	If you have other questions give me a call at DTN 291-8986.


	Vance Dean

    My brother and a friend of mine both own a Vitus; one shimano 600,
    and the other Dura Ace. My brother weighs 155 and my friend about
    165. Both have had problems occasionally when riding hard uphill
    out of the saddle - the chain skips on the freewheel to a lower
    cog. Both feel that this is due to the flex in the lightweight frame.
    
    They both have learned to live with it.
    
    Will it happen to you? I don't know, but if I were considering a
    Vitus the first thing I'd do on the testride is head for the nearest
    steep hill, and jam up it ...
    
    Mark

    <RE; .7> Campy, exotic? If anything falls into the exotic (by
             definition, of course) it would be the Japanese 
             entry. Admittedly, they are the innovators in this
             sport. Campy can only be accused of being the corner
             stone of tradition.
    
             To trash a component (unjustifiably) only means a bad
             experience that someone had. Fine tuning. Naw! I'll
             be the first to admit I'm not into it. And I haven't
             been plagued by my Campy stuff either. I'd ride the
             thing if I had to sqeeze the brake pads by hand before
             I'd do an adjustment. If anything, it IS reliable stuff,
             bullet proof and beautiful.
    
             Chip

    Mark,
    
    I had the same problem with frame flex that you described and I
    readjusted my rear wheel a bit further back (that way, the chain wraps
    itself better around the cog) and, voila, the sucker doesn't slip
    anymore.
    
    I do agree with you that you should test ride the bike under harsh
    conditions (fast off the saddle uphill, fast downhill, and fast
    corners) to see how it feels before you plunk down the big $$$ that
    Vitus requires.
    
    Alfonso

    re. -1
    
>    I do agree with you that you should test ride the bike under harsh
>    conditions (fast off the saddle uphill, fast downhill, and fast
>    corners) to see how it feels before you plunk down the big $$$ that
>    Vitus requires.
 
    	Please send me the names of all the Vitus dealers that will
    allow you to *test* ride one of their frames under these conditions.
    Most mountain bike dealers won't even let you do this until they
    have a large non-refundable deposit on the bike.  This IMHO is the
    most important (and frustrating) thing about buying a new quality
    bike/frame.  You have to either go on the advice of others (this
    notesfile) or your taking a very expensive gamble that the bike will
    do what the magazine article said it would.  This would be a good
    subject for a base note.... "Who's Who With What That They Are Willing
    To Let Other People Try Before They Buy". 
    
    					Jerry

>>    	Please send me the names of all the Vitus dealers that will
>>    allow you to *test* ride one of their frames under these conditions.
 
Jerry,
        Vitus dealers...
	Try Bicycle Alley in Worcester MA 752-2230 (assuming you're in the
	area) They carry some real nice bikes there that you can ride 
	as well as the Vitus, such as the Specialized, TREK, Centurion carbon 
	fiber bikes, a aluminum tube Gerciotti(sp) or a SLX BASSO. This should
	give you good comparison. Plus they have a good short steep hill near
	by with some rough pavement.


>>    Most mountain bike dealers won't even let you do this until they
>>    have a large non-refundable deposit on the bike. 
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
	They don't need my business then. I can see leaving a drivers license
	if they don't know you.

	Happy Hunting

	Tom

    Re .12
    
    I agree with Tom that a store that asks for dough up front just to test
    drive the bike is probably not the kind of store you want to do
    business with.
    
    When I bought my bike at International, I asked whether I could take it
    for a short hill ride.  The manager declined but I still did it anyway 
    because I knew that I could get away with it without him noticing.
    
    Alfonso

    Give Colorado Cyclist in Estes Park a call (number in back of most
    cycling mags).  They sell bunches of Vituses.  Last time I counted they
    had 85 frames hanging in the showroom.  They could probably tell you if
    you weigh too much and what to expect.  They will probably give you a
    price also.
    
    Steven Le Blanc

    Thanks for the inputs.  Where I live there was nothing available to try
    so I am going on your inputs.  I did talk to colorado cyclist and they
    said that 180lbs was about the upper limit on weight.  I am ordering
    the frame from nashbar so that if I have a problem I can use the "100%
    satisfaction" guarentee.  I also used the price matching with colo.
    cyclist on the frame and headset.
    
    thanks again
    
    mike

    Surely the upper limit for Vitus is decided by frame size rather than
    rider's weight, as a bigger frame is less rigid. I was interested in
    one, but was told that 59-60 cm (23-23.5 ins) is too big for a Vitus
    frame (I am 6'0" and weigh 160 lb - not particularly heavy). I got a
    steel one in the end.
    
    The upper limit I heard was 56 cm (22 ins), after which the frame
    flexes when you climb hills (it is very hilly here).
    
    Here in France Vitus is very popular, but Frenchmen are smaller than
    Americans and I would guess that most Vitus frames here are around 22-inch
    or less.
    
    John

    
>	Try Bicycle Alley in Worcester MA 752-2230 (assuming you're in the
>	area) They carry some real nice bikes there that you can ride 
>	as well as the Vitus, such as the Specialized, TREK, Centurion carbon 
>	fiber bikes, a aluminum tube Gerciotti(sp) or a SLX BASSO. This should

	Tom, I'm in So. N.H. where the shops are limited and the pro bike
dealers aren't into demonstration rides, except on their Fuji's and Shogun's
that is.  I'd like to check out Bicycle Alley.  Can you post directions
from 290 South.  I'll swing buy on my next trip to Ct.....Thanks.


>    so I am going on your inputs.  I did talk to colorado cyclist and they
>    said that 180lbs was about the upper limit on weight.  I am ordering
>    the frame from nashbar so that if I have a problem I can use the "100%
>    satisfaction" guarentee.  I also used the price matching with colo.
>    cyclist on the frame and headset.

	Mike, since you talked to Col. Cyc I'm assuming that you are
aware of the special "Vitus Golden Opportunity" ?  Its a Gold colored
special edition with full 600 Ultegra, Campy Rims, etc. for $899.99.
This is at least $100 less than the comparable set up from Nashbar
(Last time I checked prices).  IMO....anyone offering a quality,
Ultegra equipped pro-bike for under $900 deserves real *serious*
consideration.  But if you want to go DA right away, I can see picking
up the frame from Trashbar, just remember, the prices in the store
    are no longer the same as the catalog *they are higher*.
    Just my $.02 .
						Jerry

    RE:.18
    Thanks, yes I did look at the "Golden Opportunity" and it is a good
    buy.  I am going to Dura-Ace (why? I guess I just want to) on the build
    up from the start.  I ordered a 52cm frame yesterday and nashbar
    expects to ship the frame in about a week with the headset installed.
    
    on a separate issue....any one have any experience with American
    Classic seatposts??  I am thinking of using one instead of the dura-ace
    aero.  any comments?  I understand they are lighter but don't have any
    reliability info.
    
    Mike

>	Tom, I'm in So. N.H. where the shops are limited and the pro bike
>dealers aren't into demonstration rides, except on their Fuji's and Shogun's
>that is.  I'd like to check out Bicycle Alley.  Can you post directions
>from 290 South.  I'll swing buy on my next trip to Ct.....Thanks.

Jerry,
        I'll give you the easy directions, it is a mile or two longer but
avoids all the traffic lights and urban warfare driving.

Rt290 to Hope Ave exit (The exit after Holy Cross Col, Mass Electric, and across
from the 30' Polar bear)

end of ramp bear right-

straight until next intersection bear right (still on Hope ave)

Follow this street between the two cemeteries, about a 1/4-1/2 mile on your
left will be Bike Alley next to HUNANS and after the fire station. This is the 
same road you want to use to take you test rides on, you'll notice the nice 
short steep hill on the way there.

Ask someone a BA for directions back to 290, Hope ave only has an exit.

Tom
                                            

	

    RE: .18
    
    I bought a Trek 1000 from Bicycle Alley a month ago which I think was a
    very decent price.  However I have had very bad luck with their
    service.  In my opinion, they did a very poor job on the installation.
    At certain gears, the chain kept skidding and made a lot of noises.
    Also in the highest and lowest gears, the chain kept rubbing the front
    derailleur.  (There are other problems with the bike which I am not
    going to enter here)  It took four trips and one near major bike
    accident for them to do it right.  In my last and final visit there
    last week, their attitude was really bad  (Right, they must think I
    like bringing my bike back to bother them once in a while!). They finally
    changed some components and did the adjustment right, and all the
    problems were gone.  Now, I am really enjoying my bike. Personally, I
    would stay away from their service.  But then it might just be bad
    luck for me.
    

    RE: .19 ( AMERICAN CLASSIC seatpost instead of Dura Ace).
    
    I replaced my Dura Ace seatpost with American Classic (200mm).
    The D.A. post was just a bit too short (180mm), and the A.C.
    post gave me that extra length, and some weight savings.
    
    I haven't had any problems with it, and it is extended to
    the 'MAX' line too. I'm using it on a Tange Prestige frame.
    
    Mark

    RE: .19 (American Classic seat post)
    
      I have an A.C. seat post on my mountain bike.  This is the exact
    same post as a road bike just alot longer (280mm).  The type of
    frame that I ride (sloping top tube) is notorious for bending seat
    posts due to almost all of the 280mm being out of the seat tube.
    The A.C. has performed very well with no bends or cracks.  It is
    also very easy to adjust and stays in place.
    
    						Norm

RE>> < Note 1250.21 by ANT::WCHIN >


>Personally, I would stay away from their service.  But then it might just be 
>bad luck for me.
    
 I'm sure it was just a bad day. They do have very good service department that
takes pride in their work, but I have noticed that they can get very busy and
if you want something taken care of fast your better off doing it yourself. Or
leaving it there and telling them to take there time on it and your not in a
rush. This will put you on good terms with them. They will bend over backwards
for a good customer. I'm sure there is a bike store out there that does
everything right the first time and requires no attitude adjustment, but I have
yet to see it.

Tom 

    Forget it guys, just get a nice 531 frame and you're in heaven.
    
    Richard

    
>	Try Bicycle Alley in Worcester MA 752-2230 (assuming you're in the
>	area) They carry some real nice bikes there that you can ride 
>	as well as the Vitus, such as the Specialized, TREK, Centurion carbon 
>	fiber bikes, a aluminum tube Gerciotti(sp) or a SLX BASSO. This should
    
    	Bicycle Alley is o.k., but I have found a dealer in N.H. (finally)
    that extends this kind of attitude to customers *and* whose prices
    are competative with the catalogs.  I just purchased an Aluminum Frame
    (Cannondale) ATB from Dave at Nault's in Manchester, and he really got
    me good deal.  The thing that amazed me about this shop the most is the 
    little things that I have become accustomed to paying for at other
    shops.  Like finding an odd size allen wrench for an old Campy stem (See 
    my note on the old Le Jeune Racing Bike) and *giving* it to me when
    I already had my hand on my wallet.  In addition, this shop has a full
    line of Campy in additon to the normal Shimano showing and he carries
    Italian Pro Bike's (e.g. Colnago) in additon to being a Cannondale,
    Klein and Schwinn Aluminum dealer (Can't help it if I'm becoming
    an Aluminum Junkie).  I understand he also sponsor some of the
    Manchester area Dirt Bike races (Temple Mtn.) with Specialized.
    Needless to say a lot of my future notes will be on dirt issues :-)
    
    	Oh, the really great part....he gives 10% discounts to Granite
    State Wheelmen members.  (I got my $10 annual membership fee back
    on my very first purchase).  If you like Bicycle Alley but you'd
    like to try a Sales Tax Free alternative look up Naults in Manchester.
    
    						Jerry
    
    

Hi,
I'm considering buy a used VITUS that is virtually new
(only a few hundred miles).  Given that it fits me and
I think it will.   Is $800 a reasonable price for a 
VITUS frame with Ultegra components?  
The reason I'm looking at VITUS is because it is light
and supposedly has a soft ride for an Aluminum frame.
I dont race ... just want to tool around on a really
nice bike.
Thanks for any input,
Larry Cohen

Larry,

Try it before you buy. The price sounds a bit high. You can get a really
nice 600 Ultegra bike for the same money, brand new. The Vitus fames are not
that good in my opinion. They flex too much when climbing and are all over the
road when descending. Although the new Vitus frames have ovalized tubes to help
give the frame some lateral rigidity. 

I've seen carbon frames with 105 in the same price range ($795 Epic @Landrys)

Tom

re Tom's remarks on Vitus..

If it's good enough for King Kelly it's good enough for me!  As for "...all over
the road downhill..." - I seem to remember he won the '92 Milan-San Remo by
out-descending Argentin on the Poggio.  Having been up and down this evil piece
of road I cannot believe this statement.

Another hobbyhorse of mine is to attack the misconception that one can buy
fitness, performance, skill etc...  It is _nice_ to have a flash bike but in my
opinion 95% is down to the rider, so unless you are in the category where the
odd gram, kg/mmsq or second matters, then concentrate on yourself rather than
equipment.  Now, would I knock anyone who fits his bike out with Ti???  I suspect
going without breakfast would have the same effect on weight and would save
money as well...

...........only joking, Chip.....  ;>) - honest!

    While I fully agree with you, there is also the psychological effect of
    having a neat bike.
    
    A cyclist of my aquaintance has just swapped his old chromoly for a
    cute new specialized allez and his improvement has been far an beyond
    that which the difference in bike would make feasible.  I reckon this
    is mostly psychological since he now drops me on his chomoly frame as
    well....
    
    Mind you I think I have the edge on him down hill since I started the
    whispering campaign about glue melting....
                                              

    I bought a Vitus framed bike some years ago, based on riding
    comfort for long (doubles and stuff) rides.  I have to agree
    about the flexibility (which gives some of the comfort) and
    especially about handling on fast descents.

    Still, I'm not a racer so I'm happy with it.  (I still have
    Campy SR components, no aero stuff so I'm not into the equipment
    end of things...)

   - Jim

>>Another hobbyhorse of mine is to attack the misconception that one can buy
>>fitness, performance, skill etc...  It is _nice_ to have a flash bike but in my
>>opinion 95% is down to the rider, so unless you are in the category where the
>>odd gram, kg/mmsq or second matters, then concentrate on yourself rather than
>>equipment.  Now, would I knock anyone who fits his bike out with Ti???  I suspect
>>going without breakfast would have the same effect on weight and would save
>>money as well...

I agree 100% ... but I still want to replace my aging Lotus with a "neat"
bike.  I think the Vitus has some interesting characteristics that suit
my size, weight and riding style.   I'm very apprehensive about plunking
down $800 for the very reason that I agree with you and this would be
a very expensive toy.  
Thanks for the input.  
BTW.  I rode the bike this weekend.  Its a gorgeous frame.  Unlike
other aluminum frames it has a classic look about it.   It fits
perfectly.  I didnt notice any downhill instability although I never
got up to 40mph.   I'll probably buy it but I have to agonize for awhile.

-Larry Cohen

     Hi Robin... Thanks for the article in the Gitane carbon fiber
    machine. Your right about weight and just skipping breakfast.
    
     For TT's I like the "have 2 cups of tea and purge the intestines"
    for those afternoon events :-)...
    
     I keep working on the motor, but I think I'm losing compression!!!
    
       Chip