Conference noted::bicycle

    I grease my crank arms, also. If I don't grease them, I find them
    extremely difficult to remove. By the way, is there some kind of
    puller for the crank arm with gears attached? A two arm puller wont
    do it, but will a three arm puller take it off?  I let the bike
    shop deal with my freewheel. Do pedals need greasing? How does one
    go about servicing pedals?
    
    

    
    	I grease just about everything but the chain and brake blocks.
    I used to wax chains, but with the price of sedisport chains being
    what it is I'd rather buy 'em by the six pack and chuck 'em at passing
    jogg<ooops> when they get dirty.
    
    	Since getting into boat maintenance, sorta via water skiing,
    I've been using marine grease on bikes and cars.  It just DOESN'T
    wash out, of course, even in salt water (also, 'OF COURSE').  It's
    green and makes more mess on clothes than white lithium grease,
    but I don't have enough grease guns to keep every type at hand,
    so I'm using this stuff for everything, just have to be a bit more
    careful about wiping off the excess.  I assemble almost nothing
    "dry", I use anti-seize on parts that will get hot, lock-tite on
    parts that will get vibrated and don't have other adequate locking
    mechanisms, grease on things like crank arms to BB spindles, teflon
    tape on pipe threads, etc.  The major rationale is ease of subsequent
    disassembly and lubrication to get the parts "on tighter" with less
    force.  Most recommended torque settings ASSUME clean and lubricated
    threads and tapers (crank spindles, magneto flywheels, etc.).
    It isn't being "fussey" to run bolts through a die or a tap through
    threaded holes to clean off old thread-lok, its the ONLY WAY to
    get accurate torque settings.

    	Reg
    
    {and yes, Al & Fe  DO  have a tendency to grow together, especially
    in the presence of air and moisture, salt makes it even worse}
    

    	Grease the seatpost and non-sealed wheel bearings, headset
    bearings, bottom bracket bearings, derailure pulleys....
    
    	The *one* thing you dont want to grease is the crankset axle
    where the crank arm attaches!!   At least with expensive cotterless
    cranksets with aluminum crank arms, this is a big mistake!   If
    you grease this surface, you can then draw the crank arm on too
    far with the bolt that goes into the end of the axle.   If you
    do this, the worst case scenario is that the aluminum crank arm
    expands, so that it rides too close to the frame, or even scrapes.
    That crank arm's life can be measured in terms of the number of times 
    you take it on and off.    When you grease it, that number of times
    you can extract it goes way down.    
    
    	Some old cranksets are particulary finikey in this regard,
    like an old Stronglight I had that could only live through three
    or four extractions before needing a new crank arm.   Most other
    cranksets are much better, but can still be damaged if you grease
    those surfaces and then draw that bolt too tight.

    		Alan.

    PS:  The above only refers to 'cotterless' cranksets.  Cranksets with 
         only one flat side on the axle surface, that have a 'cotter pin' 
         to hold the crank arm on, can be greased.

    re .2	.1 reminded me, I built a freewheel grease injector
    from an old hub.  I also have a bearing greaser that works well on
    freewheels, though the cogs have to come off to use it, no problem
    since everything needs cleaning up around then anyway.  I havn't
    tried the marine grease in a freewheel, but don't see why it wouldn't
    work well.
    
    	Pedals are easy, well conventional pedals are, dunno about the
    funny_foo_foo,_no_parts_available,_but_they're_sealed_for_life stuff.
    Just strip everything out, clean, grease and reassemble.
    
    	R
    

    I agree with .3, don't grease the BB axle to the crank for the reasons
    mentioned.  The generally recommended way of "lubricating" this
    area is to wipe the end of the axle with your hands.  The oil from
    you hand will have sufficient oil to keep the crank and bottom bracket
    from forging together.
    
    Another area that needs lubrication heavily is the stem in the head
    tube.  Besides allowing for easy removal, it may quiet any noises
    in this area.
    
    steve
    

    re .3	The old Stronglights had a spec confusion problem.
    For a while it wasn't clear who (other than Campy, who started an
    industry "standard" by default around '53) was making crank arms
    for which spindle taper.  There was a lot of pseudo_technical
    discussion around about the taper in the crank arm needing to be
    a degree or two greater/less than or equal to the taper on the spindle.
    A lot of crank arms were literally split at the eye end by mismatch
    of taper, log splitter sort of effect.  All of this lead to very
    poor acceptance of  "cotterless cranks"  for a long time.  Now that
    the standards are all sorted out (see Southerland's) it can be safely
    assumed that these bicycle parts are subject to all the regular/normal
    laws/rules of physics and engineering.  {Of course those laws were
    never suspended, the parts were adhering to them totally as they
    broke/wore out prematurely.}
    <Translation:  Grease as for ALL tapered assemblies.>      

    	Reg
    
	{BTW,  The term  "Axle"  is generally used for parts that carry
    rotating parts, the axle itself doesn't rotate. 
    
    	The term  "Spindle"  is generally used for parts that rotate
    WITH other parts attached to them.
    
    	Hence bicycle wheels have axles (that don't rotate), whereas
    bicycle bottom brackets have spindles (that do rotate). }
    

    RE: .6
    
    	Admittedly most cranksets are better than the old Stronglights,
    but even Campys' can have this problem if you grease the spindle
    and take it on and off a few times a year.   Particularly the left
    crank arm, which has less metal around it than the right.    A few
    years back I had a 15 year old Campy crankset that had to have that
    one crank arm special ordered for replacement, due to this type
    of expansion.    After many years of coming on and off, the crank
    arm just went all the way on, so that the bolt would be flush
    against the end of the spindle and the crank arm would still be
    loose.
    	This was probably an unusual type of damage though.  That
    crankset had been on two previous bikes and had been raced by
    two oversized (200 lb++) sprint 'monsters', before I got it.
    When I ordered the new crank arm, the best bike mechanic I know
    told me to *never* grease those surfaces.
    
    		Alan.

    I got a Campagnolo chainset and bottom bracket recently. The whole
    BB spindle (to use the approved terminology) came coated in a thick
    grease. Does this show Campagnolo's view on the matter?
    
    Rod

    I don't think it means anything.  Many metal parts are stored with
    coatings of grease just to protect them from corrosion.

    re .8	Sure it was grease ?  I thought they used something
    more like  "Cosmeline"  (sp ?)  which is sort of a very thick version
    of WD-40.   
    
    	Reg {who still believes that these tapers are no different to
    any others}
    
    

    Re last (Reg): 
    
    I wouldn't recognise Cosmeline if you threw me in a barrel of it, but
    the stuff on the BB spindle was brown and gooey, so I assumed it was
    grease. When I put the cranks onto the spindle, they went on very
    smoothly, so I didn't use all my force to tighten the bolts. Does
    that seem sensible?
    
    Rod

Re: assorted.  FWIW, this comes from a former professional bike 
mechanic.  I spent several years in that business.

Nobody bothered to answer the question in .1 abuot pullers.  There are 
pullers specifically made for crank arms.  The puller consists of a part 
that screws into the arm using the dustcap threads, and another part 
that screws through the first one like a bolt through a nut.  You take 
out the crank bolt, screw the puller in place, and then screw the inner 
part against the spindle to force the crank arm off.  Bike shops should 
have these - Park makes a "universal" one, and most crank makers have 
one that fits their own (and sometimes some other) cranksets.

As to the initial question, i.e., grease or not, .3 is right.  *Don't*
grease cotterless crank tapers.  Reg, the reason this is different from
all the other tapers is that it is almost unique in having aluminum
pressed onto a square steel taper.  The marked dissimilarity in
mechanical properties will cause a greased crank taper to fail
eventually, for the reason described in .3.  I know, I've been there. 
Once.  What actually happened to me as the crank was drawn on too far
was that the crank split, just as if I'd been using a commercial
nutcracking tool.  It was a Sugino crank on a Sugino spindle.

About 13-15 years ago, Nervex made some steel cotterless cranks.  These
had to be greased, or the crank would never go on far enough to keep
from loosening.  But almost nobody understood the problem, and the
product died rather quickly.  The last bike I know to have used them was
the '75 Raleigh Super Course. 

If you're dealing with cottered cranks, then it's okay to grease the 
crank and spindle, but *don't* grease the flat, the cotter hole, or the 
cotter itself.  It's not the nut on the cotter that holds this assembly 
together - the cotter is supposed to be *pressed* in before the nut is
assembled on, and friction is the order of the day. 

- Dick

    I'd just like to say that experience has now taught me that the advice
    contained in .3, .7 and .12 is totally correct - don't grease
    cotterless cranks. 
    
    The LH crank of the bottom bracket I referred to in .8 (I think)
    continually went loose after every tightening (I had assembled it with
    the grease that was already on it). I got sick of this a few weeks back
    and did what I should have done in the first place; remove LH crank,
    clean all the grease off the flat parts with white spirit, use a bit of
    nose-grease to hinder any corrosion locking problems that might occur,
    and re-assemble. During 200 miles since then, no problem.
    
    This is a Campy Triomphe crankset, and it does illustrate a
    problem/feature with Campy cranksets that I think has been aired in
    other notes - this is that the LH crank sits very close to the bottom
    bracket cup. No doubt exacerbated by my incorrect assembly in the first
    place, the crank now has a millimetre or less of clearance. Am I right
    that Campy cranksets are often like this?
    
    
    Rod

RE; .13     Rod,
        
>    This is a Campy Triomphe crankset, and it does illustrate a
>    problem/feature with Campy cranksets that I think has been aired in
>    other notes - this is that the LH crank sits very close to the bottom
>    bracket cup. No doubt exacerbated by my incorrect assembly in the first
>    place, the crank now has a millimetre or less of clearance. Am I right
>    that Campy cranksets are often like this?

    	This was one of the problems I had with the super record campy
    crankset I had described in .3.    In my case, the clearance was
    so close that occasional bits of gravel would get in the crack
    and scrape things up.     I discussed it with the pros, and they
    thought at first that I had ruined the LH crank arm by drawing
    it on too far.    Rather than order a new one, we sanded off the
    little lip, on the inside of the cranck arm,  which had about 2 mm 
    to spare, thus adding that much clearance.    I then used it
    that way for several years, so it was an effective fix.
    
    	Then later during a rebuild, we checked the specs and discovered
    that the wrong spindle had been installed!   There are many sizes
    of campy spindles available, and the one I had was just too short
    on the left side of the bike.   It must have been a mistake caused
    by confusing the various diameters, and threads used by Italian, 
    French or English bikes.   This was a Swiss bike and no one knew
    what was supposed to go on it.    Installing the correct spindle
    was the *real* fix, in my case.   It turned out there had really
    been nothing wrong with my crank arm, and it doesn't seem to
    miss the gram we sanded off.  :-)
    
    	Hope this helps you some.   I don't think it's *normal* to
    have such a clearance problem.   When we were fixing it, my mechanic
    friend said;  "At first I thought your [ ? ] was in backwards,
    as that happens a lot on these campy cranksets..."  It may be
    that the spindle or the cups could be in wrong, or backwards,
    to cause some misalignment.    In my case, I'd have never found
    it without the help of a friend who looks at lots of these
    campy cranksets, and knew what to look for.

    						Alan.