Conference noted::bicycle

    	The Roller patch is similar to the Dog, Rain, and other non-ride
    patches - if you want one, buy it.  Nobody in their right mind would
    set up a Dog ride, would they?  I did set up an Ice Cream ride and
    sold Ice Cream patches.  (I just bought a Rain patch to commemorate
    the stupidity of a Wednesday evening ride a few weeks ago with NVP
    [remember the monsoon we had one evening at 6:30ish in Maynard -
    about 10 of us NVP types went ahead and rode out around Lake Boone
    and back up 27 in water up to our BB's at times].)  - Chris

    Ah, I see there's a lot I don't know about patches.  Sort of thought
    it was like the cub scouts, merit badges and all that.
    
    I'm also a NVP member (as of a few weeks ago), but didn't see
    where you bought the patches.  Your reply seemed to indicate
    that ride patches are not just bought, but are only available
    thru sanctioned rides?
    
    I guess I thought that all patches were associeted with some form
    of ride.  (The dog ride wasn't in the figure, but after a number
    of dog ride I've had, maybe I should get myself one.  How many
    dogs qualifies?)
    
    Dave

>    I'm also a NVP member (as of a few weeks ago), but didn't see
>    where you bought the patches.  Your reply seemed to indicate
>    that ride patches are not just bought, but are only available
>    thru sanctioned rides?

	Ride patches can be ordered on consignment from LAW.  For major
	rides the ride organizer can order patches ahead of time and
	pay LAW $2 each for patches that are not returned.  The patches 
	might be included as part of the ride or an extra cost option.
	If the ride leader prefers, the participants can pay for patches 
	at the time of the ride and receive them at a later date.

	For special-case patches (Rain, Dogs, etc.) the patches would
	generally be ordered after-the-fact since you can't count on
	weather or animals to cooperate.

	For most patches to be proper, the ride must cover the approximate
	distance noted on the patch or be held within a couple of days
	of the holiday noted on the patch (New Years, Halloween, Easter, etc.).
	Some patches (such as the Rain, Dog and Ice cream patches) can 
	commemorate any ride that the ride leader thinks is appropriate.

	I would think that sale of patches by LAW would be limited to
	LAW members and affiliated clubs (like NVP).

				-John A. Wasser
				President of NVP

< Note 865.2 by CSDPIE::EDGERTON >
                       -< Let's have a Roller Century! >-

I too was thinking of having a Roller C!  Seems like there's some other sick 
people out there.  It would be good to have it sponsored by a club and 
advertised so that we UMCA members could try to get credit for it.  (Don't 
know whether UMCA would credit it...how do you verify someone actually rode 
100m on rollers...with no wind resistance fans on the rollers, 25mph+ is quite 
easy).

Kevin

ps.  Dave, did me meet last Sat at the NVP Fall Century?

    A roller century seems like it would work, everyone would have
    rollers and bike computers.  Plus, you'd be done in 4 hours, right!
    
    I think i'd take a little longer, when I ride my rollers, I fall
    off when I pay to much attention to the radio and not to my riding,
    also, more when I get tired.  I havn't learned to coast yet!
    
    Yes, I was at the NVP Fall Century (were you with Ed Fisher?).
    
    The best time would be after the snow or slush is on the ground,
    but before anyone had totaly reverted to couch potatoes.  Who
    says people don't hibernate thru the winter? ;-)
    
    Dave

< Note 865.5 by CSDPIE::EDGERTON >
                             -< titles are a pain >-

>    A roller century seems like it would work, everyone would have
>    rollers and bike computers.  Plus, you'd be done in 4 hours, right!

Not everyone would have the same equipment.  Some on windtrainers with 
fans/magnets, some on rollers with/without fans.  So everyone would not have 
the same conditions.  It would be like those without resistance devices would 
have tailwinds, and the others headwinds.

I just wouldn't feel right riding a faster C on rollers than I could on the 
road.  Seems like it should be at least as hard.  

It would probably take me longer than 4 hours, since I'd have to get off the 
bike every 45 mins or so.  That's as long as I can go on the rollers before my 
crotch falls asleep and/or gets very painful.  I like to stand alot, and I 
haven't learned yet how to do that on rollers.  (You should have seen me 
trying to learn to ride Scott DH bars on rollers.  I had more crashes this 
year indoors than out! :^) )

Kevin (who was with Ed)

                             -< More on Roller C >-

>Kevin (who was with Ed)
>I just wouldn't feel right riding a faster C on rollers than I could on the 
>road.  Seems like it should be at least as hard.  

This may start a raging argument, but here goes:

A series on PBS, The Ring of Truth, (everyone correct me if I only
get close with the titles here), had a show on the tour de france.

He was showing how the energy equations always balanced and where
the huge amount of energy from what the riders ate went (They eat
a LOT).  The measurement was in jelly donuts (26 or 36 per day).

The point was, after that much intro, that air resistance play
a large part in the energy equation.  Thus, why pace lines
and drafting is used so much.  (This part from LeMonds book).

Thus, I could easily imagine a roller ride being much faster
than a on the road ride.  Especialy at the 6 hour and below
times.

For riders like me, who average 12mph on long ride (just wait
till next year with that new bike!), wind resistance should
not play a large role.

Obviously, fans on the trainer or rollers can be used to
compensate.  This may be why some people (in earlier roller
notes) didn't get the exercise they wanted from the rollers.

Enough said.

Dave

I remember seeing that program a while back. The man who narated it
was some famous Physisist (sssssp?) He equated a riders intack of food
in jelly donut units. Each donut equated to one energy unit consumed.
Riders on the tour ate as much as 10,000 calories a day! I guess they 
need it though. If I remember correctly, only one or two of the 36 'units'
was used for powering the bike over the road. Something like 6 or 7 were
used to overcome wind resistance. There were also some others that were
used up for misc. things. But, the majority of the 'units' were wasted
in keeping the body temperature at equilibrium or in other words, heat.
It was something close to twenty 'units'. In the Deadelis (sp?) project the
engineers spent a LOT of time figuring out how to control the cockpit
temperature so that the riding would not have to spend energy trying to keep
his/her body temp up. They had to provide enough flow though to ensure that
the heat generated by the person could be converted to the surrounding air 
so that the rider wouldn't burn up. It seems that heat is a BIG byproduct
of exercise. We just ain't efficient beings are we? Hope I didn't sway this
note too far, I found the program very interesting and thought some of you
might be interested.

enough rambling
Mano

< Note 865.7 by CSDPIE::EDGERTON >
                         -< Faster than you may think >-

> Thus, I could easily imagine a roller ride being much faster
> than a on the road ride.  Especialy at the 6 hour and below
> times.

I agree totally.  I just couldn't in good conscience say I rode a Century on 
rollers that don't have any resistance device attached.  The problem with my 
rollers is that even with just 1 of the 2 fans attached, my average cruising 
speed is reduced from 20+mph to around 17-18.

Of course, by the end of the winter, with all the weight training I'm going to 
do, I'll be able to push BOTH fans at 20+mph for 100 miles EASY! :^)

Kevin

    .8 summarised:
    
    cyclist's energy output in notional units:
    
    	powering bike                            2
        overcoming wind resistance               7
    	heat production                         20
        miscellaneous                            7
                                                --
    	total                                   36
    
    Assuming that points 1 and 2 are what constitutes the 'useful work'
    part of the energy output, then that makes us about 25% efficient.
    Isn't that in line with any other heat engine? 
    
    From what I can remember from engineering, car engines, power stations,
    and any other device that can be classified as a heat engine, all have
    a maximum efficiency of about 30-35%. Thermodynamics predicts that
    any heat engine will have a maximum efficiency of about that level,
    so it's not down to poor engineering.
    
    I suppose the question is, can humans be validly defined as heat
    engines for the purposes of this discussion?
    
    Rod

    If I put a couple of books under the back end of my wind trainer,
    I can coast for the whole Century?  Perhaps watching a couple of
    football games on tv and pedalling only when there's "action" on
    the field.  That should work out to 24 minutes for 2 games, unless
    I also pedal whenever there's a commercial that shows a bicycle,
    that'll make 26.
    
    ed

    Then if I put my trainer behind another one I can pretend I'm
    drafting.
    
    The Ultra-Marathon Cycling Association is now considering rules
    for implementing an indoor ultramarathon division -- for those
    of you who like spending more than 6 hours at a time on a trainer.
    
    ed

    And I suppose it will then get to be an Olympic Event!
    
    Wouldn't that get more than 2 minutes of TV time.  1min 30sec's
    showing the rollers, 5 sec's for the ride and 10 for the awards.
    
    The parody of the current coverage is intentional.

Two notes on Roller riding:

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Path: decwrl!labrea!rutgers!uwvax!speedy!shekita
Subject: Re: Rollers
Posted: 5 Oct 88 03:13:59 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept
 
[Stuff removed comparing rollers to wind trainers - DE]
 
Gene
 
PS: I heard a rumor that Lon Hadelman (sp) and his wife once celebrated
    New Years by riding a "roller century" indoors. Ooowe, what a partying
    couple, eh... Then again, Lon might have taken off the friction unit
    and was able to blast along in the trusty ole 85x11 (borrowed from
    John Howard, no doubt) at 60 mph.
 
PPS: Anyone know what the roller speed record is?

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Path: decwrl!purdue!mailrus!cornell!uw-beaver!uw-june!wiebe
Subject: Re: Rollers
Posted: 5 Oct 88 05:32:56 GMT
Organization: U of Washington, Computer Science, Seattle
 
I read in one of the cycling rags that Lon Haldeman used to train for RAAM by
riding his rollers in the dark in his basement for 8 hours at a time. No light,
no music, no TV, nothing except the hum of the bike. He said it helped develop
his mental toughness for those long nights on the road. I can see why it would!
 
-- 
wiebe@cs.washington.edu			Dept. of Computer Science, FR-35
{decvax,ucbvax}!uw-beaver!wiebe		University of Washington
206-543-8993				Seattle, WA 98195

    I noticed that someone asked what the speed record is on rollers.
    According to the May issue of Bicycling it's 129.1 mph. Set by 
    Jim Baker of Tucson, Ar during a basketball half time. The bike
    had a 269-inch gear, it was a double reduction gearing system that
    had a second bottom bracket and chain ring on the seat tube. Looking
    at the picture reveals that there was no resistance unit and the
    bottom bracket was bolted to the roller frame, also he had a disk
    rear wheel. With that kind of set up he must of topped out in cadence
    not from friction.
    
    
    Tom

    Does anyone out there have any experience with American Classic
    rollers?  I'm thinking of buying some.  What is a good price?
    
    Phil

    re: -.1
    
    Yes, I use American Classic rollers, and like them.
    They offer more resistance than regular rollers, and are almost
    as quiet.  I do not think they are quite as smooth as the best
    large cylinder rollers.
    
    I had some problems with the parts loosening on me after several
    rides.  I fixed this by replacing the original bolts with 1/4 inch
    longer bolts and adding nylon washers w/ a lock nut to those parts
    where metal contacted metal.  Its worked great ever since (and the
    cost of new parts was only about $1.50).
    
    The other nice aspect of American Classics is the low profile. 
    It seems to make it easier to learn.
    
    /Larry