Conference noted::bicycle

I wholeheartedly agree; I am very pleased to see this note.

						-- Tom

    
    As one who was bit by one of those rotten !@*@! mutts on a century,
    in the rain, on a state highway last year,  BULL$#!T to having to
    get off my bike to assuage the brute's feelings! I have no problem
    with dogs guarding their 'territory' when they stay on their owner's
    land, but when they attack me on a public way, their lives may be
    forfit.  I do nothing to provoke them, but when they start nipping
    at me, I'll bring whatever I have handy to bear in self defence.
    (If I came at a stranger with teeth bared and assaulted them, I
    wouldn't bet on my survival.  Why should I treat someone's ill-
    behaved pet differently?)  - Chris

    RE: .0
    
    >    o  talk to it, scratch ears, etc.
    >
    
           As a dog owner who cries during Lassie movies, I believe
    it is more humane to give a chasing dog some negative feedback,
    rather than be this encouraging.  I generally let the dog know
    that I have the potential to do him harm if he persists in his
    attack by first growling, then raising a hand as though to 
    throw something at him, and if all that doesn't work and I'm
    forced to stop, I will pick up something and actually hurl it.
    Flailing pump at a pooch, steering with one hand, is dangerous
    to the rider; but once a poodle was yapping at my heel and
    I pulled my foot straight back out of my toe clip, heeling him
    in the nose and I found that not only was that attack brought
    to an immediate halt, but the dog, who lives right down the
    street, has given me a wide berth ever since.
    
    I guess the point is, you are doing the dog, the dog's owner,
    yourself, and other bikers a service by "training" the dog
    that it is dangerous to be in the street chasing things.
    I am advocating discipline, not sadism though, and verbal
    and body language techniques should procede warfare.
    

    I agree with .2.  I've been chased while running and while biking.
    It is unnerving to say the least.  Believe it or not biking and
    running require some concentration.  There is nothing worse than
    trudging up a hill and have some dog come out after you.  It ruins
    your concentration and can be dangerous.
    
    I've found that (while running at least) throwing a rock, or even
    pretending to throw one can get the dog to retreat.
    
    I've called the home of offending dog owners and voiced my concern.
    I've even called the cops to complain.
    
    A friend recently got $1000 from a dog owner whose dog bit him on
    a run.
    
    I love (well trained) dogs.
    
    Bob
    

	I was bitten by one dog a few years ago, and was saved from
	being bitten by another because my companion, lagging a bit,
	ran over the dog as it ran into the street.  The dog ran away,
	but my companion, who flipped over, had bloody elbows and knees
	and a bent fork.  (The dog was a Doberman, which jumped a high
	fence to come at us in the street.)  The neighbors came out to
	help, mostly from self interest, since they said neighborhood
	children had been getting molested by the dogs, and the owners
	weren't trying terribly hard to restrain the dogs.

	I like cute and adorable doggies, too, but I'd rather have the
	mace handy just in case, since there's little time to react
	if it's one of those few dogs that actually plans to bite or
	pounce.  I guess burning eyes can serve as negative conditioning.
	If the owners want to do something more subtle, fine.  But, if
	they fail, their dog might have to get sterner treatment.  I'd
	prefer the guilt of having maced a dog to a cracked skull.

	I trained my parents' dog to never go into the street alone.  It
	doesn't chase cars or bikes or the mail carrier.  It wags its tail
	and waits for the person to approach or watches him pass.  It's
	a shame a poorly trained dog suffers for the incompetence or
	lack of concern of his owners, but with our help, he will get
	trained one way or another...  -Or, he'll get run over.

    I guess I have to concur about negative conditioning.  I once did
    that as the only option with a St. Bernard when I was a kid of the
    age as to be at eye level with a mouthful of growling fangs.  My
    option was punch it in the nose, which I did, which caused doggie
    to bark from a respectful distance in subsequent encounters.
    
    There is a place past which I bicycle in my neighborhood with some
    serious dogs (3) who always come out, and always lunge and threaten,
    and yes, my concentration goes to hell, and my gut says KILL!, but
    it ain't necessary.  
    
    I guess the thing is to maintain a reasonable balance.
    								John

    
    I have mixed feelings on this...
    
    A dog running out at me on my bike is dangerous and threatening,
    and I feel justified in reacting strongly.  (If the dog ran at another
    animal, the dog would not be treated with understanding.)
    
    On the other hand, the real culprit is the owner.  But they aren't
    usually around to yell at.
    
    Chuck

I've never met a dog who could catch me (from behind), so I've never had to
thump one of the little tikes. I did meet two who just stood out in the road
(like East German Border Police). So I stopped, tried the scratch ears, etc.
Worked great; til I tried to leave, then it was bare fangs again. I was there
for a VERY long time.

BTW, a testimonial from a friend who accidentally got sprayed with HALT
(dog mace). She mentions that it should be EXCEEDINGLY effective, as she
was incredibly miserable for quite a while, no permanent effects tho. Main
ingred. is red pepper oils....

Dogs aren't safe running after bikes, either. Friend of mine hit two
German shepherds that ran out; besides injuring himself/bike, killed one
of the dogs and badly damaged the other.

                                                       ken

The title of this note is "Do NOT assault dogs" but I would say "Dogs,
do not assault me". I have been chased, attacked by german shepards and
even packs of 3 dogs and believe me, the last thing on my mind is:

>    o	talk to it, scratch ears, etc.  

I am literally scared to death and am fearing for my life. In the case of 
the pack of 3, I was lucky enough to outrun them. But most of the time,
I'll do this:

First I'll yell very firmly "NOOOO". Most of the time that works.
If the dog still comes, I'll get off the bike as fast as possible, grab the 
pump, hold it over my head in a treatening position and continue to yell
"NO". To date this has always worked. If the dog attacks, the pump is so 
flimsy that it wouldn't do any good and survival instincts would take over.

I love dogs and never want to hurt one, but believe me, this is no game.

                                         Keith

    I am of the opinion that mistreating an animal should be punishable
    by the unspeakable.  However...
    
    	As with a number of previous replies, who the h*ll has time
        to decide if the dog(s) is only 'bluffing' ?
    
    	A big dog, Doberman or German shepard, can cause damage without
    	using the fangs; mass x velocity...
    
    	Also, given that you encounter that fiesty neighborhood stray
    	who does give you a lil' nip, then disappears into the bush
    	(lot'sa that in New England), what do you tell the doctor.
    	I assume you would at least entertain the thought of rabies.
    	Those shots are painful, I'm told.  And with all the little
    	rodent type varments floating around to impart it to an
    	injudicious dog...
    
    Lots of good reasons to use extraordinary measures to squelch
    a charging dog in it's tracks.  And whether afoot or on a bike,
    _I_ am incapable of out distancing a dog.
    
    
    Dwight

This is worth yet another comment.

I have never, yet, hit a dog that chased me.  Going faster is more fun.
(Recall "Eddie" from American Flyer?)  Eventually, there must be an
equalizing hill that gives some dog an advantage, though.

As for concern for the dog's welfare, New Hampshire has a statewide leash
law and I figure that any unleashed doggie does not have an owner who
cares about it's well-being and is fair game.  Even the local dog officers
just say, "shoot it," when you complain.

    re .0	I see there are nine replies already, but I will enter
    mine before reading them, just to make it an individual contribution
    and not just regurgitate (does that mean "sick-up") everyone else's
    rhetoric.
    
    	Yup, doggies are usually *NOT* looking for a bash with the old
    air stick.  However, they often appear to be playing property defender
    role without a clear understanding of where the defended property
    ends, I think this is what arouses the anger of most cyclists and
    leads to the violence (some real, some dreamed of).
    
    	I agree that there are a lot of friendly dogs and a lot of the
    rest of them can be made friends with, it takes a bit of initiative
    from the rider though.  I find that seeing the dog first is key,
    then I do what a lot of folks regard as THE stupidist thing the've
    ever seen.  I call to them, or whistle, it seems to work, even if
    they start barking, they often come around after a couple of calls.
    
    	Reg
    

    re: 1

> The average mutt who comes rarfing out wants its ears scratched.
> Take the time to scratch.  Even the crazies can be dealt with without
> hitting or chemicals or other obscenities by which bicyclists attempt
> to create dogs that are actually dangerous>

    I concede that it may be the case that the "average mutt" who runs into
    the roadway to intercept a bicyclist may only want its ears scratched.
    Since the roadway is not the appropriate place for a pooch I am not
    going to reinforce the dogs behavior by stopping and paying his toll -
    scratching its ears. 

    Dogs in the road are dangerous to both bicyclist and animal (I seem to
    recall LAW reporting 3-5  bicyclist's deaths per year as a result of
    collisions with dogs).  I would suggest it is to the dog's and rider's
    advantage to "train" the dog to avoid the roadway, at least running at
    or after bicyclists.  For the bicyclist the easiest way to "train" the
    approaching dog is by presenting an aversive stimulus. 

    I typical use a loud "NO" or return a "growl" (which has worked on
    occasion by getting the owners attention who then decide to control
    their dog). If this fails then I present a physical aversive stimulus -
    not tire pump upon skull, or mace in the face, but a squirt from the
    water bottle. 

    Squirting can be accomplished from the saddle (takes a bit of practice)
    or on foot with the bicycle placed between as a barrier.   To date,
    this method has at least stop the approaching dog long enough to make a
    clean and SAFE get away; typically the dog retreats a bit bewildered.
    As a "training" method it seems to work; I've seldom had a dog approach
    more than twice to receive the same treatment ... hopefully the
    training has generalized to other bicyclist. 

    This method is flawed since it requires sufficient water in the water
    bottle to work ... which may be a problem near the end of a ride.  This
    method also fails to work with the "crazies" or "kamikaze" dog attacks
    - one in which there is not time for the bicyclist to prepare to
    counter.  Instead the bicyclist must react, which typically means
    swerving to avoid a collision with the K-9, and then sprint to avoid
    further strafing attempts.  These dogs are rare but do exist. 
 
    jbn 
    

	Just a note on rabies.  Rodents aren't known to carry them.
	They're usually carried by things like skunks.  (And bats aren't
	rodents.)  There are two questionable cases (both in California,
	from the 70's, I think) of squirrels possibly giving rabies
	to humans, but the details weren't conclusive.

	And the only cases I remember hearing about of human rabies in
	recent years were research people who had accidents in the lab.

	It's still worth worrying about, though, since the consequences
	of the rare case are pretty nasty.  (Sounds like nuclear power,
	doesn't it?)  So, give the doggie a rap on the side of the
	head just to get its attention.  And grab the skunk by its tail
	and keep its feet off the ground.  (It's supposed to keep them
	from spraying; beats me how you keep them from biting/scratching.)

	-LC

    My two cents worth.
     I was bitten several years ago while running this dog bite resulted
    in 14 day stay in the hospital(from a poddle),rabies series shots
    (yes they are as bad as they say they are)and a skin graft.
    If a dog comes within range of my pump history will be written
    I refuse to take chances with the dog wanting his ears scrached
    if the first swing hits the ears so be it....
    It is the owners job to take care of keeping the dog in the yard
    as well as scratching ears,ect.
    
    				-A DOG LOVER,BUT...
    

    
    good low flames.
    
    I love dogs too, but there is a limit. I have been able to outsprint
    most dogs but there's always an occasional large Dobie or pith bull
    that can run 40 mph. In that case my strategy is:
    
    scream while reaching for bottle
    
    squirt bottle right at dog's eyes
    
    if this fails out comes the pump. I've also found that whacking
    isn't as effective as poking in the nose with the Campy two-pronged
    metal head. A couple of good prods will usually work. If he/she
    bites the end so be it.
    
    The more you provoke the dog the worse chances you have in court.
    
    CdH
    
    

    RE .15 and others..
    
    There is currently a rabies epidemic among wild animals (skunks,
    racoons, squirels).   It is still rare among dogs however, but is
    more likely when other animals have it.
    
    I would be very careful about picking up a wild animal by any method
    by any part of their body.
    
    Chuck
    

  re: -2  
>    scream while reaching for bottle
    
>    squirt bottle right at dog's eyes
    
        This was my policy until.....
Ridind up Harvard Rd hill in Bolton, near the top (puff puff), out came
"Major", a mixed breed (part Pit Bull, part Doberman and part Greyhound).

I screamed, and reached for the Halts (tm).

And the owner shouted from his front porch, "Leave him alone! He won't bother
you!".                                     

My reply was a squirt of HALTS in the Major's eyes, and a "He *IS* bothering
me!!!"  to the dog lover on the porch.
Major doesn't bother me any more. Neither does the porch sitter.
and Harvard Rd continues to be one of my favorite killer hills to ride.

    Riding at night in upstate New York some years back, a dog came
    out;  eerie, no barking, just doggie footsteps at full gallop. 
    My sister and I accelerated hard, doggie footsteps continued, 
    then an incredible thump as the dog ran into (a fire hydrant?);
    we continued on...
    
    I rethought my position;	I agree that any means of defending
    				yourself when being assaulted is OK.
    I object seriously to establishing mental habits like dog = evil
    creature to be beaten or bicycle pump = weapon with which to beat
    evil creatures, a lot of which surround me.  
    
    The pump's for filling tires.  If anybody or anything is attempting
    to amputate your foot at the ankle, then other uses for water bottles
    or tyre pumps or whatever become justified.  
    							John

	I'd double-check on squirrels...  Don't give them a bad
	name unless you're sure things have changed recently.

    re.18, exactly that same dog came after me one sunday morning, and
    the owners were out in the yard: "He's OK, he doesn't bite"...well,
    major kept on coming and clamped his teeth around my leg. I bellowed
    some choice words at the dog and he let go; then at the owners:
    "This #!% dog just bit me!". Leg however showed no blood, and I
    was having such a good time going up that hill that I didn't want
    to stop, kept going. In recent year the animal seems to stay in
    his yard, and I may have other riders to thank for that.
    
    One other dog story: On route 62 just west of Gleasondale there
    is a beagle that loves to chase bikes, but usually stays on the
    edge of yard. Well one day he took off after me and I could tell
    he wasn't dangerous, just cruised along ahead of me. He was 
    yelping his fool head off and trying to keep up with me and clean
    forgot about the utility pole at the end of his yard...WHACK.
    One severe headache for beagle; I noticed MUCH less enthusiasm for
    the chase the next time around.
    
    Well, maybe just one more: white German shepard used to chase me
    every morning on commute from Hudson to LMO4. Looked fierce and
    all that, but I did the routine like Reg describes, act friendly
    and whistle and talk to him etc, and after a few days dog decided
    I wasn't dangerous, was just passing through. BUT he didn't stop
    running with me - this dog loved to race! so we'd do the half mile
    sprint every morning, dog running alongside for the fun of it.

    
    This is not a dog story, but relates to .21.
    
    I had a regular running route in Newton last winter.  I noticed
    on some occasions that I would pass a rabbit in this one spot.
    Then I noticed that he would run along side of me.  So it got to
    be a regular thing.  Everytime I went by this one house, their
    rabbit would take up the pace, stride for stride, next to me until
    I got to the end of the yard.  Very cute.
    
    No more bunny though, I looked for him last week....
    
    Chuck 

    
    Chuck, rabbit stew???
    
    I know that beagle in Gleasondale, house is right before the Hudson
    town line sign. Never nipped at me, just ran and barked.
    
    CdH
    
    

    
    	I think the Gleasondale beagle is either dead, disinterested,
    or scared of me.  I havn't seen him in a long time, though I suspect
    that he hides behind the twitching curtain as I approach.  I have
    a major advantage over most of you in that my body naturally secretes
    obnoxious substance, he licked me once and threw up.

    	Reg
    

Heck, what's one more response. I could relate to pretty-much everybody's 
position. I love dogs; I didn't cry thru Lassie, but did thru "Old Yaller". 
I've used my Zefal to threaten, don't think I've ever actually clobbered a dog 
with it tho.

I carry and use Halt now, for the following reasons:

1) It is effective. I have NEVER had a dog persist after a well placed 
   application. In most cases a "near miss" will suffice.
2) It convinces repeat offenders that chasing a bicycling is not so much fun
   after all, rather than simply pissing them off as a bop over the head is
   likely to do
3) No permanent damage
4) Doesn't imbalance me like extending and swinging a pump does
5) Use does not preclude re-use (the case of denting your pump)
6) Dogs REMEMBER. I had one stubborn critter on the last up-hill on the
   way home (right in my neighborhood). Sent me veering into the path
   of an oncoming car. Next time, I blasted him. The next time, he got
   within about 20 fit. I remove the Halt from its carrier. The dog turned
   round, ran the other way. No more problem.

I think the stuff is great, and I haven't thought of any detriments to it.

-Scott

    After having a large dog cut in front of me Monday on my commute,
    sending me to Emerson with a broken collar bone, I have to express
    an unmitigated "BULLSHIT!!!" to .0 and .1
    
    Fortunately, witnesses and the owner saw it (after originally lying about
    it not being her dog) and is finding out to the tune of $250+ in
    medical bills and bike damage why Littleton has a leash law.
    
    P.S. Since I was going about 25 mph and landed on my head and shoulder,
    had I not been wearing a helmet...

    Kratz Brown
    

    re -.1:
    
    What would you have done differently to avoid the accident?
    Did the dog knock you over or did you lose control of the bike
    while focusing on the dog.
    
    One of the problems I have found in combatting canines
    is that your attention becomes focused on the dog and you can
    easily lose track of where you're headed.  This is worsened by
    the fact that dogs tend to attack from the rear.  And, if you're
    right-handed you'll instinctively reach for your weapon, be it
    pepper spray or frame pump (if someone could only figure out a way
    to have it double as a cattle-prod), with your right hand.  That
    leaves the left hand and front brake to control the bike.  Look
    out.
    
    Reclaiming medical costs is nice, but a preventive strategy is required, 
    because in spite of leash laws, it WILL happen again.
      

Re: .26

BRAVO!!!  Responsible dog owners fence, leash or otherwise restrain their
dogs for the benefit of the dog, others, and themselves ($$$).

If my dog gets out and hurts someone, that is MY fault.  It is not the 
fault of the bicyclist, runner, or whatever.  If I were the dog owner in
.26, I'd consider myself lucky to get off with only $250.  It is my 
responsibility to restrain my animal...it is not a bicyclist's 
responsibility to stop and pet my dog.

I read about one case (Bicycling magazine, I think) where a "harmless" 
dog ran in front of a cyclist and the guy is now either massively paralyzed
or a vegetable.  The settlement in this case was several orders of 
magnitude above $250.

.jim

(Dog owner/lover, contributor to CANINE notesfile, bicyclist, runner)

    re .27
    
    I'm not sure I could have done anything different.  I came around
    a turn and was going downhill.  The dog was on the edge of the other
    (left) side of the road, it saw me, started to run at an intersecting
    angle, and then just cut in front of my path.  I hit it totally
    broadsides and it literally stopped the front wheel (80 pound dog),
    launching me.  It all happened in a flash.
    
    Kudos to Officer John Kelly of the Littleton Police Department
    for his helpfulness following up the accident, talking to the owner
    and supplying me with name and address.  He must have said something
    to the owner that sunk in, because the next day she was all too
    cooperative to pay for my bills.

       Reminds me  of  my  last  accident.  About 10 years ago I was
       accelerating away from a light on a quiet residential street.
       I noticed the car parked by the side of the road, and checked
       that  no  one was inside, so the door wouldn't open as I went
       by.  I  didn't  notice the dog in the back seat, which jumped
       out  the  back  window!! By the time he landed I was about 6"
       away  from  him  and  didn't  have  time  to react. I hit him
       broadside,  throwing  me  off the bike with a few bruises and
       scratches.   He   sort   of  limped  away  while  the  owners
       apologized.   Since   I  wasn't  hurt,  and  they  had  taken
       reasonable   precautions   nothing  more  came  of  it.  I've
       occasionally  thought how unfair it was: I'm prepared for car
       doors to open, and I'm prepared for dogs, but the combination
       just isn't quite cricket.

--David

    	RE: .26
    
    	The staff of Emerson Hospital wishes to thank Kratz
    	Brown for his ongoing support of their fine institution.
    
    	Shrtly after my friend Bill crashed and broke his ribs and arm,
    	his son broke his arm in a fight. Son goes to St. Joseph's
    	Hospital in Nashua. Doctor says, "I thought I just put a cast
    	on the right are of one of the Dobbs!" Wife/Mother, "You did
    	put a cast on my husband's are a couple of weeks ago. This is
    	my son."
    
    	"We thank you for your support." (And I'm not talking about
    	Bartles and Jaymes)
    
    	RE: Helmet
    
    	Knowing how hard headed you are, Kratz, I'm not sure
    	you need a helmet. (Lots of smileys)

    Hi,
    
    I have been seing replies to this note for a while.  I've been a
    serious bicyclist for 15 years and a dog owner since I was 2.  I've
    one very serious accident where a dog jumped a fence and I ran into
    him.  I found the best way, at least in Massachusetts, to get the
    owner to pay up is to remind him/her that you have a write to kill
    a dog which attacks you while you are peacefully operating your
    bicycle on a public street.  Also I've had many dogs try to take
    a piece out of me as I rode by.  
    
    I don't carry HALT, I don't hit dogs with pumps, water, rocks or
    anything else.  The reason I do this is I know that dogs are afraid
    of and want to obey humans, they just dont understand bicycles.
    Unless you're "jumped" the best way is to leave the dog's territory,
    if you can't leave the territory, then shouting "go home" has worked
    most of the time, on those rare occasions when it has failed then
    dismounting and holding the bike between you and the dog and repeating
    the command has always worked.  This technique was publicizied by
    Tom Cuthbertson in his Bike Tripping book.
    
    Joe
    
    PS I often take my dog, large mixed breed, out with me when I ride
    my mountain-bike offroad so if you see large dog right after you
    see a mountain bike please don't spray him or hit him, he's just
    trying to keep up with me :-)
    
    PPS If you want to talk about the real animals oon the road, lets
    talk about those creatures behind the wheel of a car, who always
    say after they hit you "I didn't notice you".

    I'd like to throw my two cents on this one.  
    
    I feel any dog that is not properly controlled by its owner is fair
    game for a dog pump.  I will freely nail any dog that appears vicious
    and is chasing me.  I've tried the dog spray called HALT, but it
    does not seem that effective.  A pump works much better.
    
    Last month, I was riding with my two year old son in the child carrier.
    We were climbing a steep hill in Ashburnham, and while I was passing
    in front of a very dumpy looking house, a growling dog leaped from
    the bushes.  I was caught totally off guard.  My first reaction
    was to jump off the bike and swing my arm in front of my son, who
    was looking a little surprised by all this.  The owner, who was
    standing on the front lawn, started laughing.  I was so angry, I
    wanted to strangle BOTH the dog and its owner.
    
    I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for uncontrolled dogs.
    It's too bad that the dog has to be punished because of its owners
    ignorance, but that's the way it is.
    
    Regards,
    Denis
    

	There was a recent mention in Bicycling about using "Snappers"
	(small paper wads that go off like a cap gun when thrown on
	the pavement) to warn off dogs.  If this works, a cap gun 
	might also do the trick.  I recommend the kind that takes the
	caps that look like small red plastic thimbles.  They are
	very loud and can usualy be loaded with a continuous strip
	or wheel for multiple shots.

	If this upsets the owner you can always point out that you
	have the right to shoot his dog dead if it attacks you on a
	public road or sue his pants off if you had not forestalled
	an attack.

    I belive Mass dosent allow cap guns.
    

And some one (like a cop) might mistake it for a real one...

    
    What is a 'dog pump'? 

    The heavy duty black Zefal is one of the best dual purpose pumps on the
    market, as it's reusable.

    - Jim

    	I recently heard that Dan Henry (the Roller Stripper, AKA Arrow
    inventor, AKA sling seat inventor, etc) carries a small whip under
    his seat for dogs.  I tried to buy a small training whip a few years
    ago, but it wasn't suitable.  Anyone know where I can get a small
    (say total length of 6 - 8 feet) version of a bull whip?  Something
    that would make a whipcrack noise (primary function) and also inflict
    a sting (backup function) if needed?   - Chris  who doesn't mind
    dogs that stay in their yard.

    
    Maybe you could get a chain also.  Then you could hook up, lay back
    in your recumbrent, crack the whip and let the dog pull you up the hill!
    
    (I still like the handheld boat horn....when a dog comes after me
    it gives me great pleasure to not only scare him off but to also
    disrupt the entire neighborhood!)

    Gee, fellas, I always thought that dogs-a-chasin' were a good time
    to do some sprint training.  Thank goodness most dogs don't have
    the killer instincts that cats have.  Dogs usually make a lot of
    noise while they're coming on to you.  Can you imagine how it be
    to ride, say in India, and have a leopard jump ya?  
    
    My response has always been to out-run them.  If that doesn't work,
    give them the ol' Toshiro Mifune death stare with accompanying loud
    war cry.  I've never had to revert to Plan C - the ol' bottle squirt
    or Plan D - the surface to surface missile.  I still keep both handy
    though.
    
    BTW, I have a friend who was a serious racer despite getting nauseous
    at high speeds.  He told me how he once puked on a dog who just
    happened to chase him at the wrong time.  I wonder what the owner
    thought when he saw the spectacle!
    
    ALfonso 

    A real rasberry to the jokers who want to hurt an animal. The issue
    is the owner/legislation or both! If you need to fill a macho desire
    to reach a power plane go and buy yourself a gun and a hunting license.
    The problem is the animal owner not the animal!! If the issue really
    bothers you, do the right thing, not the brutal thing. I have war
    stories during cycling and have also experienced the grave misfortune
    of hitting a dog on my motorcycle - killing it and almost me. Damn
    the owner (there is a leash law where I live) and I was heartsick
    about the animal. I agree that outrunning is preferrable and most
    time a dog is only good for a short distance anyway. It is very
    rare that a dog will be vicious enough to attack you if you stop
    and make friends. Again, if the owner is an idiot (and probably
    is) REPORT HIM! The owner is also putting grave risk to the animal
    as well (motor vehicle traffic). Intellect wins out. Try it!
    
    Chip

    
    What's this crap about Macho desire, and power planes????  We're
    talking about a dog attacking a person, and that person defending
    him/herself!!!!!!!!  Pure and simple.
    
    First I'll take care of the dog, by getting away from him anyway
    I can even if that means giving him a shot in the head!  THEN I'll
    go looking for the owner!!!
    
    First things first
    

First, let's take a look at the tone. Second, there's attack and then
    there's chase. Aside from some people's fear of animals the right
    thing is the right thing. Self defense from personal injury is fine.
    How many times have YOU reported incidents, or just live with them!
    
    CHIP

    re .42	If you're SO hung up about attacks on animals why do
    recommend people go get a hunting licence ?  I have NEVER been chased
    by a deer, either while riding a bicycle or any other time, so I
    feel it would be unfair to shoot at them, that WOULD BE an unprovoked
    attack.  I feel differently about dogs however...

    	R	

    
    When I see a Doberman heading at me full steam I don't have time
    to decide with this is an attack or a chase!  I'll do what is 
    necessary at the time!  As for ME reporting incidents...  I guess
    I've been lucky, and haven't been bitten, or had a Dog CAUSE an
    accident.  If I had I would certainly report it!
    
    As for TONE, didn't you start by saying we're all on MACHO trips
    and looking for power planes (or something like that)???  Well,
    I think that's approaching an insult!!  
    
    Stew
    

    Self-preservation instincts can tend to make us conservative
    in taking risks with what looks like a mauling-in-the-making.
    Certainly certain classes of dogs (Dobermans ... Dobermen?
    do come to mind) look from their conformance and gait that 
    they can only mean to inflict severe bodily harm.
    
    But, true, in most cases I've found dogs to be either very
    friendly once you adopt an amicable (in dog terms) attitude,
    or just automatically defending their turf in dog fashion
    (which means running up and barking).  In both those cases,
    where the dog hasn't been *trained* to attack, there's virtually
    no risk (he said...).  Most dogs just like to chase things -
    and, face it, you may be the high point of their day... especially
    if you stop and pet.  From my side, it's sometimes been the most
    social and humane encounter of the whole day (in contrast to
    pickup-trucks, say).
    
    Anyway, most dogs' territorial automatic behavior is engaged
    as you move onto their turf, and heightened as you continue
    *moving* in it... but these behavioral automata tend to be
    thrown for a loop if you calmly slow down or stop - it's
    hard to chase someone who's just standing there.  And besides,
    the dogs who are a real threat will easily be able to catch
    you if you try hightailing it - Dobermen again come to mind.
    I feel very vulnerable with my back turned on a vehicle that
    is inherently able to tip over at any moment... standing or
    walking slowly is a much more defensible position... so I stop.
    
    "Mean dog quotient" varies with the neighborhood and the macro-
    and micro-culture.  Lots of problems in backwoods US (NC, SC,
    MD, NH...) - virtually none with any breed of dog in Europe,
    for example - as others have said, this reflects human- not
    canine-culture of the region.
    
    Gotta go...
    
    -john
    

    If you see NAC::CAMPBELL's Rottweiller coming after you, you better
    has a 25lb bag of Eukanuba on the back of your bike if you plan
    on making friends.  If you plan on "assaulting" it, I hope you have 
    a cast Iron frame pump.  She picks her teeth with Zefal's.
    
    He's really a dog lover, but he does carry 2 pumps on his training
    bike.

    ;^) throughout...
    
    JD

    Injury to people and dogs don't generally happen by getting bitten
    but by running over the dog and meeting the pavement.  I know multiple
    cases of people getting broken bones because of this.  A cyclist
    must keep the dog away from the bike, whatever way is possible.
    I know myself I have threatened to call the police/dog officer after
    being chasen, but I calm down after the endomorphins kick in at
    the end of a ride.  The most effective way to solve this potentially
    dangerous problem for all riders is for every cyclist to contact
    the local police and place a complaint.  Besides, guns are too heavy
    to carry.
    
    steve
     

    re .42..... I really don't care who the dog's owner is or what the
    particular laws are in the city/county/state I'm in, if the dog
    comes after, I am going to do something about it. It has nothing
    to do with macho attitudes, it has nothing to do with wanting to
    harm animals. What it does have to do with is me, the dog, and the
    10 to 60 seconds it takes to pass him. If he has the jump on me,
    and violence is appropriate, then the dog will get a mount full,
    gut full and face full of violence. You are extremely naiive if
    you think that owners give a rats a** about bicyclists. There opinion
    is that a guy on a bicycle will be there for 10 seconds, and Rover
    will be caught half-a-sleep and will never know when he went by.
    These people "could not bear" to fence rover in or put him on a
    leash for a bicyclist. I have ALWAYS lived in an area with leash
    laws, and I ALWAYS see them broken.  When the dog comes after you,
    it is irrelevent where the police are, where the owner is, where
    the town is or where the country is: It's between you and the dog.
    It's got nothing to do with macho, its got nothing to do with kicks,
    its got nothing to do with strength, and its got nothing to do with
    guns or the law. When it's me or the dog, I have to choose me.
    

    One comment: I now of situation were a dog run out, over shot, got
    in front of the bike, rider flipped over the dog, broke his back,
    now all he can ride is a wheel chair.
    
    Personally, I have a silca pump with a metal campy head. I know
    its not the dogs fault. (I should use the pump on the owner) However,
    I want to teach the dog to NOT chase bikes. One shot of the pump
    to the nose and the dog never chases me again. 
    
    About stopping... When you are out on a hard training ride it is
    not in the plan to stop and say hi to each dog. 

    It seems as though 51 opinions should do it. Shouldn't it?
    
    Jonathan
    

    It's been my experience that a good crack on the head will *sometimes*
    teach a dog not to chase.  Usually just sprinting away suffices though.

    Agreed that dogs are just following their instincts.  And I as a cyclist
    will follow mine...

    - Jim

    Well, I can finally reply to this note. This past Saturday I got
    chased by a junkyard Doberman. It was after doing a 20 mile training
    ride and I was on my way back home, going up hill. My legs were
    burnt. Then MR. TEETH started after me. I don't know were the energy
    came from but I out sprinted him, going up hill. Maybe I should
    hire him as a coach;-)
    
    That was the first time I got chased and I put 2,000 plus on this
    year. It must be during the summer they can smell me coming and
    they think NA TOO SMELLY TO CHASE.