Conference noted::bicycle

I'll throw in a few cents worth here, since it seems that the participants
who consider themselves principally mountain bikers (myself included) are 
in the minority in this notes file.  

I currently own 2 mountain bikes (one is for sale if you're interested...
note # 329 ).  My 1987 Specialized Stumpjumper is a dream.  I rode several 
while looking early this Spring, and decided that it had what I wanted at 
a reasonable enough price.  The Stumpjumper was one of the first (if not THE 
first) production mountain bikes, and Specialized carries a pretty good line 
of mountain/city bikes.  For what it's worth, if it's a manufacturer 
recommendation you want, consider that to be mine.

Bike magazines are not really of much use: they all seem to end up praising
every bike they test. Once you have some experience with what you do and 
don't like in the way of componentry, I suppose you might buy a mag to get
a wider exposure, but that's about it.

Basically, take your time and ride as many bikes as possible.  This is the 
same recommendation that has come from several notes here concerning 
bike-buying.  Believe me, THEY WILL FEEL DIFFERENT!  Who cares if steeper 
angles are the current rage if you don't like a particular bike?  For 
example, My Stumpjumper has the new Suntour XC9000 brake lever/thumb shifter 
combination units, and I really love 'em.  But the placement of the 
thumbshifters gets in some people's way.  To each his/her own.

.jim

    I've been out looking at (and riding) mountain bikes the past couple
    of days. I'm looking for something in the $ 500-$600 range. The
    bike 'pedalers' have been telling me that right now you can get
    last years model for 200-300 dollars less. Therefore I could get
    an $800 bike for 500. The only differences being last years models
    where made in Japan and this years models are made in Korea and
    have (SIS). 

             (ie: Mongose ATB PRO this years 799.00 last years 500.00 )

        I haven't ridden on the dirt that much so I don't know how important
    it is to have this positive shift lock. My intentions are to sell
    my trusty touring bike and by a set of slicks for the MB so I can
    ride it on the road also.
    
    
    

I've got a Schwinn Sierra mountain bike. It's my first ever mountain bike
and have only had it a couple months but so far it's been fantastic. I
figure in a couple years I'll know more about what I want/need but until
then, this one has taken me wherever I want to go. It's certainly not
a road bike unless you're not in a hurry to get anywhere. 

For anyone who's interested, I went up to Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown,
NH last week. There's some nice X-country ski trails thru the woods that
are great for biking on.

Jenna

    Well, it's not strictly a mountain bike, but I've been using the
    Motobecane Citi-Becane for the past year.  This is really sold as
    a "city" bike (there's a "Mt. Becane" model for real off-roaders),
    but then, I ride mostly on roads anyway.  I bought this because
    I made the mistake of taking if for a test ride.  I like the feel
    of it so much better than a racing/touring bike that I decided to
    use this for all my bicycling.  
    
    I like the motorcycle-style handlebars, and the feeling of stability.
    This sense of stability probably comes from having a heavier frame, and
    thus, a lower center of gravity. Whatever it is, I like it.
    
    Consumer Reports rated ATBs and city bike last year.  This model
    was the only one of the city bikes that they felt was rugged enough
    to put through their motocross test. 

          
           I keep *planning* to go for a ride on my road bike...
           But there is that one more area I'd really like
           to check out for Mountain Biking....   :-)
           
           I am having more fun than I thought could be possible
           bouncing along on dirt roads, although it may just be
           the refreshing change of pace after many years of road
           riding.  I am trying to come to grips with being
           relegated to only using roads and logging trails which
           are frequented by noisy and and dust producing
           motorized vehicles. It is still a *lot* less traffic
           to contend with than paved roads and they no longer
           have as much of an advantage of mobility. I do
           recommend carrying a simple dust mask in your
           "survival kit" for busy areas. 
           
           My personal opinion on equipment is that index
           shifting and high quality brakes are an absolute
           must. 
           
           I would not want to hit a fast, rough transition
           between a downhill and a hard climb wondering if I was
           in gear or "floating". The good news is that even the
           inexpensive Shimano "light action" system will work
           with index shifters and I am certainly happy with my
           basic indexed Deore system. 
           
           For serious ATB'ing I would not want any less braking
           power than an equivalent to my low end "U" brake.
           I am not real sold on the dirt collecting chain
           stay placement, but there were times on last weekend's
           3 mile section of 18% average grade descent on a
           logging "cat" track that a little more braking
           power would be nice.
           
           My only complaint, so far, with my Diamond Back
           Ascent EX, which handles perfectly for my needs,
           is that it comes with *steel* chainrings on the
           Sugino "Cycloid" cranks (how Tacky:-). I switched
           the 2 inner rings for Aluminum at *considerable*
           expense and kept the outer steel, for rock
           splitting:-). 
           
           Thom
           
           
           

    
    	This spring I purchased a Bianchi Grizzly from Goodale's in Nashua.
    	The bike has Shimano indexed shifting; the Deore group, a Biopace
    	crank set, RM20 wheels and IRC tires.  The frame is fully lugged 
    	Tange 9000 chrome moly and the fork is Tange MTB.  The bars are
    	aluminum with no rise.  The bike is manufactured in Japan. Color,
    	Celeste, of course.
                   
    	I bought it after many months of wanting a mountain bike.  I
    	looked around some, read a few magazines, and then one day I
    	walked into the shop and decided, this is it!  One test ride
    	confirmed it.  It just felt right. I have since cut down the
    	handle bars about one and one half inches each side, and cut
    	the shoulder off of the grips where the come up against the
    	brake lever perch.  I kept having trouble in tight trails. The
    	bars would get caught up in the brush and I'd get sucked right
    	in for the crash. 
    
    	I really like the SIS system.  I find that I can shift while	
    	climbing and accelerating, partly because I can keep my thumb
    	on the shifter even when standing, but mostly because it's so
    	positive.  I prefer Shimano controls over Suntour.  I don't
    	like the integrated shifter/brake perch, personally, it puts
    	the shifter too far forward for my short reach.
                                         
    	If you're going off road you'll need a bike two or three inches
    	shorter than your road bike.  DON'T buy it too tall, you'll
    	hurt yourself if you have to jump off the saddle on uneven ground.
                                         
    	There are several good bikes available at reasonable prices. 
    	The Jamis Dakar, Specialized Stumpjumper, Schwinn Sierra to name
    	a few. The Grizzly goes for $579.00.  I'm happy with mine.
        
    	Ed.
               

Ed,

   Since you bought at Goodale's, I assume that you live in the area.  Where
do you ride?  Anything good locally?  I live in Nashua and haven't found much, 
tho I haven't spent much time looking.  My girlfriend and I have a matched set 
of Specialized Rockhoppers.

Kevin

    
    One place I rode through just last week was Mine Falls.  There are
    several small trails and a lengthy dirt rode, as well as a paved
    bicycle trail.  I gain access to these trails from the Nashua Senior
    High School.  Also, you can get to them easly if you go to the end
    of the mall road at exit 6 on route 3.  You'll see a play ground
    there, cross the foot bridge and you're on.  Once you ride through
    there, you'll see that there are several access points.  
    
    The roads run along a small river into the center of town.  Sort
    of a right angle to route 3.  I didn't see any signs prohibiting 
    mountain bikes on the trails, so I can only assume that it's okay
    to ride them there.           
    
    The trails aren't very challenging, but it's a nice place to take a 
    refreshing ride in the shade and out of traffic.  If you ride in
    Nashua you know how bad it can be to try to get across town.  If
    you need to cross route 3 it's downright dangerous.
                                                          
    Wanna take a ride sometime?
    
    Ed.
                                       

	I just received my first Nasbar Catalog.  I see lots of references
	to this company in several notes.  Are their prices reasonable?
        Basically i'm referring to the prices for their MTBs.  I have no
	idea what reasonable price vs. options are, thus, have very little
	bargaining power at bike shops when it comes to comparison shopping.

	Also, are the oval crank sprockets (i think they're called biopace?)
	a useful feature or just another frill?

				-jim-

Speaking strictly from the quality of the componentry, Nashbar bikes seem to
be *very* competitively priced.  Trouble is, you give up the opportunity to
"take it out into the parking lot for a spin".  And the way the bike feels
to you is the most important criterion as far as I'm concerned.  I'm sure 
there are people with Nashbar bikes who will contribute actual experience,
so I'll let it go at that.

Biopace chainrings?  I really like them, but it is hard for me to 
quantify that opinion.  Compared to other bikes with round chainrings, the
Biopace rings make my pedaling motion seem much more fluid, and hills seem
less of a task.

I have noticed that when I really stand up and "honk" on pavement, the 
noise from the tires is a more constant sound.  On my mountain bike with
round chainrings, the same action will yield the same sound, only it will
vary more in intensity, depending on where I am on the pedal stroke (if
you understand what I'm getting at).

.jim
 

I haven't got one yet but I rode a Specialized StreetStomper last 
weekend and loved it. I ride a motorcycle and I like the way these
Mountain bikes feel. I believe that at first I will use it mostly
for street riding but knowing me I will eventually start tossing
it around in the dirt (I used to ride a dirt bike too)... 

What do you think ? 

/ted

    
    The StreetStomper is not a Mountain Bike, it is a Beach Cruiser
    with gears. The frame of the bike and the rims are not strong enough
    for off-road use. If you plan on getting dirty, or using the bike
    alot, spend the extra $100 on a HardRock. The HardRock is the first
    actual Mountain Bike in the Specialized Line. If you can afford
    an extra $200, GO ROCKHOPPER!
    
    Very, Very Happy with my RockHopper...
    
    						--- Neal

>    If you can afford an extra $200, GO ROCKHOPPER!
>
>    Very, Very Happy with my RockHopper...

If you can afford an extra $300, GO STUMPJUMPER!!

Very, Very, VERY Happy with my Stumpjumper...

.jim

< Note 383.13 by STAR::TEAGUE "I'm not a doctor,but I play one on TV..." >
                           -< Why stop with a 'Hop? >-


> If you can afford an extra $300, GO STUMPJUMPER!!

International Bike in Brighton (I think) has Stumpjumper's on sale for $489, 
or thereabouts.  Not much more than I paid for my Rockhopper.  If only I had 
waited!  But I do love my Rockhoppers (my girlfriend and I have a matched 
set!).  I saw the ad for the sale in the Globe.

Kevin

    If they are '87 StumpJumpers, that's a great price. Beware '86s.
    
    						--- Neal

    
    I have a KHS Montana which was a steal at $489, but beware 
    the poorly built wheels. Its has all the right parts but
    assembly was where the bargain came in. After the wheels were
    rebuilt it has been a great bike. I use it to ride the Mt
    Tamalpais and Marin headlands trails, as well as the fireroads
    of the Santa Cruz Mts.
    

>>    Vetta seat/straight, narrow bars
>
>Straight, narrow bars: yes.  But in my opinion (and a lot of others) the best 
>seat going is the Selle Italia Turbo seat.  The Specialized Stumpjumper 
>Competition ($1400, hand built in U.S.) comes with it.
>

By the way, it may be the Stumpjumper Team, rather than the Stumpjumper
Competition.  Whatever it is, the point is that the top of the line 
mountain bike from Specialized, a production racing model, comes with the
Turbo seat.

.jim

    A bike you are somewhat describing is the Diamond Back Arrival,
    which comes in with all Deore XT components.  The frame geometry
    is 70/72 and it comes with flat bars.  My wife just purchased one
    and it is one lively bike.  Retail is around $850.

Re: .20
    Out of curiosity, is the Diamond Back Arrival an aluminum bike?  I
    honestly can't remember.  It is one fine bike, so I hear: I've never
    ridden one.  

Re: .17 
    As long as we're in the mode of suggesting bikes, even if they are
    not exactly according to your "specs", I'll put in a plug for the
    Specialized mountain bike that is 1 model up from the Stumpjumper.

    I have a Stumpjumper, and they're running around $600.  The next
    model up (the Stumpjumper Competition, I think) is around your
    price of $850.  It is mostly, if not all, Deore XT.  


Two good bikes: it'd be hard to go wrong with either.

.jim

re: .21
    The Arrival is an Aluminum frame with a steel front fork.
    I chose it for my wife because it weighs in a couple
    of pounds lighter than comparable steel frame.  I also
    don't feel comfortable about purchasing a TIG welded
    hardened steel frame.  When I used to sell bikes, we explained
    the benefits of brazing versus a welded frame, the steel
    doesn't become brittle.  Why are all new mountain bikes
    now TIG welded (Unless you spend big bucks)?
    
    steve
    

    
    I can't believe nobody has mentioned the BEST mountain bike because
    actually it is made in the Boston area.
    
    It is the Fat Chance by Fat City Cycles and is the recognized leader
    in mountain bike design.
    
    One heck of a ATB and a local product no less!
    

    I've gotten hooked on mountain biking (after not riding a bike forc
    18 years!), and am trying to save some money by buying an 87 model
    now, before the spring rush.
    
    I'm currently leaning toward a a trek 830S (1987), with full chromoly
    frame, and mainly deore components.
               
    Does anyone have any comments pro or con about the trek 830 or trek
    in general?
    
    Steve-in-Colorado
    

< Note 383.25 by 8798::SUSSWEIN "He Who Dies With the Most Toys Wins" >
                               -< TREK 830S ??? >-

I also would like general comments on TREK.  I'm looking at a TREK 1500 road 
racing bike.  It seems like the perfect bike for me.  But lately I've been 
hearing that TREK's quality control, esp alignment, is not good.  Of course, 
the source of this info is another dealer who's been trying to sell me a 
custom frame for a long time.  Don't know if I can trust him.

Any thoughts?

Kevin
    

re. .25 aand .26

to : 8798::SUSSWEIN "He Who Dies With the Most Toys Wins" 

        I saw a bumper sticker that said:

                SHE WHO MARRIES
                He Who Dies With the Most Toys Wins

I don't own a Trek myself but they are a very popular brand out here and I know
several people who do own them and they are unanimously satisfied with them.  I
can give a personal recommendation for the Specialized Stumpjumper if you can
get a good deal on one of them. 

to .26  You might also take a look at the Guerciotti oversized aluminum frame
set (not to be confussed with the complete bike (with normal sized tubes) they
make).  It is light, very stiff but just a little more comfortable then the
Trek (In my opinion).  I noticed that Nashbar sells a Guerciotti frame that is
aluminum/carbon fiber which is this frame with the main tubes wrapped in carbon
fiber to make them stiffer.  To me this is an overkill.  I'm 6'1" and 185 and I
can't imagine wanting it any stiffer. 

    
    	I bought the 1500 early last year and LOVE IT!  Somewhere else
    in this file are more comments about the TREK 1500.  A friend bought
    one towards the end of last year and he likes his.  I know of three
    people with 1500's and no complaints here.
    
    Would the other dealer be Paul R. at Cat. 1?  He told me the same
    thing about alignment.
    
    Ed

< Note 383.28 by TALLIS::EBARTH >
                                 -< trek 1500 >-

>    Would the other dealer be Paul R. at Cat. 1?  He told me the same
>    thing about alignment.
    
That's right.  Its seems to me that Paul never has anything good to say about 
stuff he doesn't carry.  That bothers me.  On the other hand, I think he's a
good mechanic.  I just had him align my Fuji and now it feels great!  He did 
an excellent job.

About the 1500... After looking at the way TREK makes their bikes, compared to 
how steel bikes are made, I would think TREK's would be more likely to be well 
aligned than steel bikes.  Any time you have to heat something up, as in 
welding or brazing, its bound to warp.  If TREK's jigs and internal lugs are 
good, then the bike should be good.  Anybody have any other thoughts about 
this.

Ed,  have you done any high speed descents on the 1500 (40+mph)?  If so, was 
the bike stable?

Kevin

                        
    	I am more than alittle behind in my noting.
    
    	I have ridden down Temple Mt twice at over 40mph and
    felt the bike was stable. On many shorter but steeper hills
    I have never felt concerned about the bikes stability, maybe
    my mental stability, but never the bikes :)
    
    Ed

    
    	A friend of mine just purchased a Panasonic MC 4500, which I
    	just got back from riding. What a blast! I would've prefered
    	the enhanced visibility of daylight hours, though, but it was
    	still a lot of fun. Now I need to buy one. I knew I shouldn't
    	have ridden it.
    
    								 Mike
    

    
    	I've been riding a Trek 850 mountain bike since 1984, and my
    road bikes have been gathering dust ever since!!   I'm *entirely*
    satisfied with my Trek.    But I hear these days half the Treks
    are coming from overseas, whereas in '84 they used to all be made in 
    the USA.   I hear the new import Treks are not quite as fine as the
    old ones.   
    
    	I have the Biopace chainrings, and I like them a lot.   I think
    the Shimano Deore deraillur system is a *lot* better than the
    suntour systems, and I reccomend it highly.   A mountain bike may
    get stressed beyond anything you would ever do to a road bike, and
    in my experience, only the very best components hold up to the abuse
    of real difficult trails.   If you're really going to get up into
    *mountains* with it, I'd suggest planning to put out more than $500
    for it.   Many brands of mountain bike are as good as my Trek; a
    friend has a Miyata (sp?) he is in love with, and stumpjumpers have
    a few models that are entirely adaquate.   Get the *lowest* gears
    you can;  I am using a 26 front chainring with a 34 on the rear.
    
    	I reccomend *only* canteleiver brakes or drum brakes, and would
    advise people to aviod those U brakes that go down under the bottom
    bracket.   Those U brakes can limit the size of tire you can fit,
    and if you wear out a lot of brake shoe, they begin to dig into
    the sidewalls of the tire.  Also they do collect a lot of dirt and
    trash.   A friend of mine got a bike with one of these brakes on
    it, and it has not proven to be worth it in the long run, although
    they do work very well when in adjustment.    There are many tradeoffs
    in the brake department though...   Cantelievers can dig into panniers
    if the frame is short, and this is the *only* excuse for those U
    brakes under the bottom bracket, since they are well away from the
    pannier area.   Some custom mountain bikers around here prefer the
    drum brakes, which are actually made for tandem bicycles, and have
    to be turned down on a lathe to fit the standard dimensions.
    
    	I often ride my mountian bike up Barr trail, right up the side of
    Pike's Peak, here in Colorado Springs.   Next summer I'm planning
    to ride the mountain bike to Alaska, since it is the most versatile
    touring machine I've ever owned.   Every weekend I hit the trails,
    and hassles with traffic are becoming a thing of the past.   I finally
    am selling my all Campy road bike, since it has only gone about 300 
    miles in the last two years.    The mountain bike is *it*!
    
    	Alan.

My experience was just the opposite of the previous note.  I have both a road
and mountian bike and although I love the MB I'm primarily a road man.  In fact
I sold my first mountain bike because it was the one collecting dust.  But as
soon as I sold it I knew I had made a big mistake.  My new one is great but
it's primarily a winter bike.  I did the commute all winter on it since I
didn't want to have to change a flat in the dark and I just couldn't bring
myself to put lights and fenders on a Guerchotti.

All this is besides the point.  I take exception with the advice to stay away
from U brakes.  My opinion is that 1) they collect much LESS dirt when under
the chain stays, 2) one good reason that they are there is that it is the
strongest place on the bike where all the tubes come together as opposed to in
the middle of the seat stays, 3) they are stonger, 4) they fit over 2.125"
tires just fine and 5) they are quite easy to adjust.

My '87 stumpjumper has Suntour duraillers, and they work just fine.

While I'm sure I don't have as many miles on mine as you I do have a lot
of miles in adverse conditions.  Mine is my "Oh boy, let's go play in the
mud" bike.

    	I am thinking of buying mountain/city bikes for my wife and
    I.  Most of our riding will be done in the city but we do plan to
    vacation with them this summer either in the Finger Lakes Region
    or in the Adorondacks and maybe some weekend trips to local state
    parks.  Could somebody suggest some bikes for us to look at in the
    $300 price range.  We have already looked at a couple of Schwinn
    models and they seemed nice but I'm not sure what I'm looking at.
    
    thanks Rick
    
    

    I personally own a Ficher Mountain Bike ( the Hoo_Koo_E_Koo ) but
    its a $700 bike.
    
    I'd suggest looking at Peoget (The spelling on that doesn't look
    right to me).  From what I hear and see there are a lot of them
    on the city (Boston) streets and they will do fine in the back country.
    8^)

    There are so many good bike available in your price range that I'd
    suggest you start by looking more at features and less at particular
    brands.
    
    Outside magazine had a review of entry level mountain bikes in one
    of the last 2 or 3 issues; that would be a good place to start.
    
    Steve
    

    	May have found the bike for me.  It is the DIAMOND BACK, FLEET
    STREET. For the money this bike seems to hsve it all ($289)
    
    		CRO-MO FRAME 
    		ALLOY RIMS
    		INDEX SHIFTING
    		CANTILEVER FRONT BRAKE
    		U-BRAKE REAR
    		30 LBS
    		18 speed
    
    Does anyone have any experience with this bike ?
    
    
    rick
    

    No experience with the Diamond Back but the equipment sounds good
    for the price.  What store did you find it at.  I am also looking
    for a bike for my wife with index shift, rear Ubrake, CRO-MO and
    alloy rims for around the $300 mark.  What index system did it have,
    SunTour or Shimano?
    
    
    ...Ed

    I found the bike at the Bike Loft in north syracuse n y , may not
    be around the cornor for you but I'm sure they sell everywhere.
     The bike does have Shiamo index with a friction release.  I looked
    around for quite a while and this bike had a lot more than any other
    bike in its price range
    
    Good Luck
    
    P.S		I did end up buying two, a Fleat Street for my wife
    		and a Topanga for myself.
    
    
    rick
    

    
    I've read thru all of the replies and couldn't find any notes on
    SCOTT Mountain Bikes.  I checked one out a few days ago and it
    seemed to ride real smooth.  It had Exage Derailleurs and Brakes
    with Shimano shifter, freewheel and Biopace chainrigns.  
    
    Has anyone had any experience or have any comments on the SCOTT
    bikes ??
    
    Thanks,
    Newc

    SCOTTs are supposed to be primo Colorado style mountain bikes.  Seems
    that each area has its own particular "perfect ATB".  If you ride in
    Arizona, you look for a Tallon, if you're from the North east you look
    for Fat Chance, Colorado has Richey, Fisher and Scott...
    
    I have a Fisher CR-7.  Here in Florida (Boca Raton) we have single
    track and lots of mud.  The Fisher also performed during my vacation to
    Durango and the Colorado Trail.  All around, the Fisher is the best
    I've had the opportunity to ride, most of the 'biker rags agree.

>>  SCOTTs are supposed to be primo Colorado style mountain bikes.  Seems
>>  that each area has its own particular "perfect ATB".

    This is VERY interesting, I know absolutely no one that would admit to
    owning a SCOTT!  FISHER, SPECIALIZED, and TREK seem to be the most
    popular bikes in the Colorado Springs area.

    SCOTT's are sold at the local sporting goods stores and not at the bike
    stores.

    I've got a chance to pick up a new 1991 Bridgestone MB-2
   (XT equipped) for $800.  I think the 1992 MB-2's go for $1000.
   Any comments on the MB-2, or it's price?

   Thanks!
   Sue
   (BTW, I'd be getting it this weekend, so quick comments are welcome!)