Conference noted::bicycle

    What kind of training and what goals have you set for this training?
    
    The kind and the amount you'll want to invest weighs heavily on the
    answers to your questions.
    
    Chip

    I had a turbo trainer a few years ago.  Plenty of pedal resistance and
    smoothness.  But, the fans were very noisy, which made it impossible to
    watch TV or even carry on a conversation.  (watching TV was my way of
    fighting off the boredom).  So, if your hoping to exercise in the TV
    room, I would be cautious about the fans and consider the magnetic
    versions.
    
    Jim

    Re: .1
    
    	Chip,
    
    		I do triathlons and biking is my weakest event.  I wanted
    to do some winter work.  I would probably vary the workouts.  Some long
    steady rides and then some "hill" workouts, some combinations.  I would
    expect to be on the trainer at least an hour at a time.
    
    Re: .2
    
    	Yes, I would be riding while I watched T.V. to fight off the
    boredom so thanks for the advice regarding magnetic versions.
    
    	Cateye makes a trainer with a built in computer.  It goes for $250. 
    Is it worth it?
    
    	Thanks Again,

    
    I'm a firm believer in using rollers rather than wind trainers. I found
    that rollers not only keep you fit, but help improve your pedalling. On
    the turbo, I found that my pedalling style became very choppy as I
    forced the pedals. On rollers, I found that I got a smoother pedalling
    style because any chopiness and you're all over the place.
    
    Some people don't like rollers because they feel that they do not give
    enough of a force to fight against. Personal preferance I suppose, but
    I feel that spinning a 52x14/13/12 for an hour is a far more important
    exercise at this time of the year than trying to turn large loads. On
    the road, you will go for long rides at high cadence just now, so why 
    should you be doing the opposite inside? Rollers will give you the
    heart and lung work out that will allow you to start the heavier stuff
    around easter time, rather than develop the old Easter Knees problems.
    
    Graham.

    <- Ignore this note from that Greg LeMond non-fan! :-)
    
    Seriously, he's right about the rollers "forcing" a smoother cadence/
    technique.
    
    I don't agree with him on the "why would you want to strength train"
    statement. I think anyone will support the notion that your workouts
    should be varied... spinning/intervals/sprinting/hard/easy...
    
    I have the Cyclosimulator (Cateye) that mentioned (about 3 years now).
    I personally like it. I tried rollers. They were okay, but I what I
    didn't like is what Graham mentioned. It's nice to be able to vary
    your resistence wihout disrupting the session.
    
    If you're like me, you'll probably be going onto a trainer with some
    base. I usually take the month of December off and really don't lose
    much. It comes back in 2 weeks and I'm pounding again.
    
    I don't profess that I've outlined your answer. This one's way too
    subjective... My best advice would be to (if you have the opportunity)
    try different ones.
    
    Chip

    Hi Greg
    
    Inspired by the Ironman this weekend?!
    
    I agree w/ the previous replies regarding wind trainer vs. rollers...
    plus there is another good reason to get rollers over a wind
    trainer(that is if the wind trainer is the kind that is secured by the
    front fork).  You can really mess up your headset using a wind trainer.
    
    Regardless of what you get... good luck doing the wind trainer/rollers
    for an hour at a time... they are BOOOOORING!!!
    
    How about buying a MTN bike instead?
    
    -John

    <- Correct... I havn't ruined anything on my trainer yet, but I
       never risk a good bike. My beater goes on it. They're highly
       stressful on the BB.

    >They're highly stressful on the BB.
    
    Maybe the kind that mounts your bicycle directly on the BB, which I've
    seen and used.  Mine is kind of an A-frame which locks from each side
    onto the rear hubs; the fan/flywheel pivot up into contact with the
    rear tire; and there are no other contact points.  Front tire rests on
    the ground.  I don't think this is hurting my bottom bracket.  This is
    also an easily portable stand, the A-frame is hinged, and folds flat
    (well, flat if you take off the flywheel/fan section; otherwise kinda
    lumpy.)  It's made by Blackburn.  45 minutes every morning ;-(.
    
    DougO

    Well, I can tell you that when I'm watching my BB when I'm hammering
    it's swinging like a kid on a set at the local playground.
    
    I'm sure, with the frame being locked in, that much more torque is
    being delivered to the BB. The rest of the frame (tubes) aren't
    in a position to help absorb the force.
    
    My guess is that the ones that do mount to BB are probably not as hard
    on BB given the support.
    
    No matter what (with the exception of rollers), a trainer of this type
    will stress a frame much more than being on the road.
    
    Chip 

I too have one of the A-frame style of trainers, and I notice my bottom bracket
move around a bit when I use it.  I worry more about the dropouts than the
bottom bracket because the dropouts are what is getting all of the stress.  The
pivot point for the stress has moved up about 13" (from the bottom of the wheel
to the axel), and parts that used to be able to move to absorb stresses are now
fixed.

Rich

    Thanks for the information!
    
    Yes John,  watching the Ironman this weekend did inspire me!.....Never
    do an Ironman! :-)  They made it look easy!
    
    O.K. from what I can gather from most of your inputs is:  Rollers are
    better.  Where do I buy them?  Any bike store or are the prices from
    Performance or Nashbar catalogs better?
    
    	Thanks Again!
    	Greg 

    -.1 you'll really ahve to look. Deals are always possible at the local
    shop (you need to ask, however).
    
    Good luck!

    I'll jump in with my .02 worth. I like several of the previous replies
    have tried both rollers and mag trainers. I had a mag trainer that
    connected at the fork and bottom bracket. Recently I decided to get
    rollers again and got a set of the Kreitler Challenger rollers with the
    headwind attachment. Without the fan attached you just have to ride a
    bigger gear. With no fan I can ride a 53 x 12,13,14,15 and you are
    going about 27-33 mph. With the fan on, and closed all the way, I can
    do a 53X19,17 and get 22 mph, open halfway or more and you can't ride
    the big ring. My best so far with it full open is to ride a 42x16 at
    about 18 mph. I hold a steady 90-100 cadence with all loads. The fan
    makes a heckava wind!
    
    When I shopped for the rollers I deliberated between the Kreitlers and
    the American Classic Hybrid (4drum) model. I posted a note in here on
    that earlier. Now Kreiter has come out with a new set of rollers called
    "dynomite" where there the same type of kreitler 3 drum arrangement,
    but the drums are 2.25 inch diameter instead of the 4.5 inch on mine.
    This built in resistance, and no need for fans. Had they been available
    when I was looking, I would have got them. The fan gives you some
    flexability for your ride. I usually to a warm up with a low fan level
    for 5 or 10 min, then open the fan up full for the "hard" section of
    the ride and then spin out with no fan at all for 10 or 15 for a cool
    down. The fan would give you this flexability. However, I don't see it
    as being much different than using a resistance roller and just
    shifting gears up and down. The only problem you might have with the
    american classic or dynomite rollers would be is the standard
    resistance is too great, then you wouldn't have the range of resistance
    possible with a fan or mag unit.
    
    Well, maybe that was 10 cents worth!
    
    Ron

On Tuesday evening, February 11, 1997, a friend and I journeyed to
Hamilton, MA to Bay Road Bicyles to try out their head-to-head
computrainer racing system.  A very impressive setup!

Reservations are required
Cost is $5/racer for a maximum 1.5 hour session, 2 racers

The system includes two computer-controlled resistance units and stands,
a front wheel block (bolted down), two nice slip-resistant platforms,
two control pads, a TV monitor, Nintendo (for video control) and a dual
fan unit (a bit lacking in air volume), all in a fenced off area.  The
fan, TV monitor and Nintendo unit are all housed in a nice unit in front
of the two bike stands.

They require a 5-10 minute warm up to heat the tires, which are cleaned
with rubbing alcohol to insure the best grip on the resistance unit. 
Each unit is calibrated with a 25 mph spinup, to make sure the
"unresisted" resistance is the same (pressure on the tire,
essentially).  The weights of rider+bike are entered for each racer to
allow for accurate uphill and downhill simulation.  There was a very
slight slippage ONLY when starting from a standstill.  I never once
slipped the tires while actually racing.

I would strongly recommend you bring or borrow an all steel skewer.  My
plastic (RX100) rear skewer didn't hold too well and I broke the
derailleur hanger.  The guy at the shop gave me a new one without a
hassle.  I offered to pay him his cost which he accepted.  Once we fixed
that and put on a full metal skewer, the bike stayed put with no further
problems.

The display is broken into 3 main sections.

In the middle, there are two racers on bikes, one in a red jersey, one
in white, on a road, pedalling, etc. to show the pace.  If you stay 6 to
15 feet behind the lead racer, the resistance goes down (and your racer
moves behind the leader) to simulate drafting.  If you get too close, or
fall off, your racer moves back to your side.

On the top, the course profile, showing two "flags" (representing each
racer), which move along the course as you do.  Also up top is the grade
at this exact moment, + or -.

The bottom area is reserved for the stats.  MPH comes from your wheel.
Heart rate comes from an ear lobe pickup.  I wore my Polar and the ear
thing was within a few beats very consistently.  In fact, they were dead
on during the constant efforts where my HR was not moving around.  If
you have a cadence sensor, they have a neat device which they rubber
band to to the chain stay that relays the cadence signal to the
racermate system, AND it passes it through to your pickup so your
computer will continue to work.  They show instantaneous power in watts,
average power in watts, average speed, distance travelled, instantaneous
speed, "lead" (the gap) in feet, all per racer (except the gap).  Along
the course are quarter markers 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 that come by as you pass
them.

My only complaint was there was not a clear indication that the finish
line was coming up, or if so, I missed it (no 1km kite, or 200m
banner).  I had broken away, so I wasn't going to lose, but I did want
to sprint from 200m just for the practise.

This system gave me one serious workout.  We raced a triathlon course of
23.9 miles, the first half was mostly up hill.  I think I finished in
1:08:xx.  The store guy shut it off before I wrote down the data. There
are many famous courses already included.  You can program your own
course, including intervals.  There are lots of course profiles around
on the internet for courses which are not included.

re: .14 

	You too can own this technology ... and network with others via
	modem.  Checkout http://www.computrainer.com.

	CycleOps also sells a computer based trainer.  The computer mounts
	on the bar and has a display ... so it's not as nice as having the
	display on a TV monitor.  They have several "cards", that you can
	swap, to tailor your workout.  The cards listed in their flyer
	include Road Racing, Mountain Biking, Triathlon, Better Hill Climbing,
	and Better Sprinting.  	You can also take a different computer 
	(avocet style) out with you and record your rides then bring them 
	back and use them indoors.  These guys are at http://www.cycle-ops.com

	Prices run ~$1500 for computrainer, $995 for CycleOps.

PR