Conference noted::bicycle

You're on track with the components except for the freewheel. I would
STRONGLY recommend that you buy a Shimano 7-speed Hyperglide freewheel,
assuming you can find such a beast. For indexing, it's never a good idea
to mix components from different manufacturers.

But you may run into difficulties with frame and wheels. It may be tricky
to find that Shimano freewheel, because Shimano is heavily inclined to
cassette systems. That may mean a new rear hub, which effectively means new
wheels.

As for STI, it's 8-speed and requires 130mm rear spacing on your frame,
which it certainly doesn't have. It'll be 126mm, for which 7-speed is the
official maximum. You'll likely need to have a new bike to get STI.


Rod

     Rod is absolutely right about the freewheel. You really should go with
    Shimano. Even though you may not immediately go to STI (BTW - you can
    still run a 7spd freewheel with their 105 STI and it will work fine)
    the freewheel works with friction.
    
     You don't need to do anything with your front changer. Save a few $$'s
    if it's working. 
    
     You may be able to spread your triangle to accept an 8spd, but now
    you're talking hubs/wheels as Rod pointed out.
    
     Good luck...
    
                  Chip

    
    On my Cannondale , I currently run Suntour bar-ends with a Shimano 
    Deore-LX derailleur and a Sachs-Maillard 7 speed freewheel with NO
    problems. It shifts perfectly every time. I've used the Sachs-Maillard
    freewheel with both Shimano and Suntour derailleurs with no problem. 
    
    When moving from a 6speed freewheel to a 7 speed freewheel, you will 
    need to respace the hub (adjust spacers on either side to accomodate
    a wider freewheel and center the hub on the axle) and possibly
    re-dish the wheel if the rim is moved off center. I have done this with
    a 1987 Cannondale and a 1987 Specialized Stumpjumper. The Stumpjumper's
    dropouts were not really wide enough to accomodate a 7 speed freewheel, 
    so I also had to spread the rear triangle a few mm. 
    You WON'T be able to simply bolt on a new freewheel without adjusting
    the hub spacing/centering.  
    
    So... while your ordering your drive train upgrade, you may wish to 
    order a set of hub wrenches and a freewheel-nut (for removing
    Sachs freewheels), and maybe even some bearings (might as well overhaul 
    them while you are shifting and respacing the hub/axle) and 
    grease. 
    
    
    doug
    

    
    I ride 105 rear mech with a Maillard freewheel. There aren't too many
    problems, but the shift is quite as slick as it could be. I put that
    down to not having a Shimano freewheel. Yes, you can mix and match, but
    it is a risk that may not always pay off. It's really up to you. Do you
    want to play safe, or do you want to mix for some reason or another
    (better performance, cost, etc.) and risk an expensive mistake?
    
    Graham.

    Thanks for the advice.  
    
    Re -.1, I have bearings and cone wrenches as I presently maintain
            my hubs and stuff and intend to get the correct freewheel
     	    removal tool as well.  
    
    	    As far as re-centering in the axle, how does one do that ?
    	    What do you line up with what to insure its correct ?  I've
    	    always kept the cone on one side of the axle untouched
    	    to maintain centering when overhauling the bearings, not
    	    sure how to center a wheel like this.  
    
    Re -.2  The rear spacing is 126mm.  My understanding is to go to
    	    the new rear deraileur, I need to replace the shift levers.
    	    If I try to keep the front derailleur, which does work fine,
    	    will it work with the new levers ?  Can you turn off the
    	    indexing to allow it to work with just friction ?
    
    BTW, I rechecked the existing components, its SACHS Hueret, not
    Fleuret.  Anyone got an old one hanging around they'd be willing to
    part with/sell ?  My original plan was to keep this bike running
    'til I saved enough bucks for a new bike, but its just not working out
    that way....
    
    
    ...Tom

     I would try the 6-7 speed first. I'll bet it'll work without extensive
    (any) wheel work. Generally, there is enough adjustment room to
    compensate for this. I went from a 7-8spd. with no problem.
    
     Chip

    I have been using STI (Dura-Ace) for 2 seasons now, currently with 
    Mavic hubs and a Regina 8-spd cluster and Regina chain.  My first
    months with an STI were 7-spd (7-spd Dura-Ace cluster), with no
    problems.  I've never used STI with a cassette hub, so I can't really
    assess the advantages of cassette.  However, based on my experience with
    non-cassette and STI (10,000 miles), I think the "won't work without 
    Hyperglide" argument is pretty overblown.
    
    Since your frame is steel, you can spread it, but if you do it yourself
    you will probably trash the alignment, so your bike gets a bit
    squirrelly.  It pays to have a pro realign. 
    
    8-spd would definitely require a new rear hub.  A longer conventional 
    axle won't hold up under the stress of the added distance between
    dropouts, so you can't just replace your existing axle.
    
    Some of the mail order houses still carry Dura-Ace clusters, so it's
    quite feasible to go STI 7-spd.
    
    Justin

    This time, you'll actually have to loosen up the nuts on both
    sides of the hub. 
    Like -1 said, put on the new freewheel and fit the wheel into place and
    see what needs doing. If there is enough freewheel to frame clearance,
    your through. In both of my cases, there wasn't.
    
    I had to use smaller spacers on the left hand side of the hub to 
    shift the whole hub/freewheel assembly to the left enough to 
    accomodate the new freewheel. If I had not done this, the freewheel
    would nearly touch the chainstay/dropout and I could not shift 
    into the smallest freewheel cog. Because of the increased extension
    of the freewheel on the right side, you will need to add a spacer
    on that side. This leave little or no room on the axle unless you have 
    already taken out some space on the left hand side, and shifted 
    everything left. 
    
    Go to a bike shop and get an assortment of 1mm, 2mm, 3mm spacers and 
    you should be able to achieve a perfect fit. When all is done, check to
    see if the rim is still centered. If not, get the wheel re-dished. 
    

Just one question.

Do you really want to go to all this trouble just to get by until you have enough
money saved to buy a new bike?

Why don't you just buy a new rear derailleur and maybe shift levers and stick with
friction shifting for a little while longer.  Yes I think index shifting is great and
wouldn't be without it but I wouldn't speed lots to make an old bike indexable.

BTW:Sportstown (a national chain) has the old Shimano rear derailleur that don't 
even required the drop out hanger for something like $15.00.  That would get you by
for now and you can save your money for the bike that will work out better.

Just a passing thought,
Tom

    >Do you really want to go to all this trouble just to get by until you
    >have enouh money saved to buy a new bike?
    >
    >Why don't you just buy a new rear derailleur and maybe shift levers and
    >stick with friction shifting for a little while longer.  Yes I think index
    >shifting is great...
    
    An upgrade to 7speed indexed shifting would be less than $90 and less
    than 1 hour of work. It cost only $50 and a half hour more to 
    than replacing the derailleur alone. Since the basenoter is familiar with
    rebuilding hubs, this would be a snap. If he's been running this
    freewheel for as long as he's been running this derailleur, it may need
    replacing anyway. It's a small investment for some really good
    shifting.
    
    doug
      

    Once again, thanks for all the advice and experiences.
    
    I ran out lunchtime to a local bike shop and looked into just
    replacing with a friction derailleur (Shimano RX400) for $30.00.  Would
    still need a new freewheel as max teeth is 28 and current freewheel is
    30 (and yes its the original, 6,000+ miles on it...due for a change, eh).
    I still intend to go to 7 spd, just need to decide on index or not.
    
    The bike shop said even though the derailleur is rated at 28T max, they
    recommend only 26T as a 28T could stress out the derailleur and cause
    the chain or the derailleur to break.  Any insight here as I haven't
    been known to exactly blaze up hills and the more teeth the better ?
    
    As for saving for a new bike, I'm maybe half way to what I need and do
    not want to impact my nest egg.  See there's this Cannondale.....
    
      
    ...Tom
      

If you can get a 28T 7-speed freewheel, go for it. I used a 28T freewheel
with a Shimano 105SC rear derailleur for ages with no problems. And if you
do get index-compatible freewheel and rear derailleur, you might as well
go the whole hog and get indexed shift levers too.

As for the front derailleur, it's not indexed anyway so your old one will
be fine if you are satisfied with its performance.


Rod

    Here's where I'm at....
    
    I ordered the Shimano 105SC Rear derailleur, shift levers, 13x28 Aris
    FW and a Shimano chain from NAshbar Friday.  They arrived Saturday
    morning just as the wife and were trying to figure out what chores were
    on the plate that date.  The bike won.  Anyway, down to the basement I
    wnet, off came the old, on went the new.  No problems with the shift
    levers or derailleur.  FW swap went fine too except I did not like the
    old spoke protector, ran out and got a much smaller one that looks
    better.  Put the wheel on and proceeded to set up the indexing.  It was
    clear there was insufficient room to get to the smallest cog.  
    
    	So, I moved the axle.  Luckily, there were enough spacers to
    correctly position the wheel to allow a shift to the smallest cog. 
    However, the wheel needed dishing.  Since this is one area I leave to
    the shop, it was back to the bike shop.  Dropped it off at 2:30 PM
    picked it up the next morning, put it back on the bike, finished tuning
    in the indexing and it all worked great, shifting smoothly and quietly
    on the workstand.
    
    	Later that afternoon, went out for the initial ride, what a
    grinding sound !   Seems the chainrings are so worn that whenever I
    apply any force as when climbing even the slightest hill, the chain is
    slipping and grinding in the chainrings.  So today, its time to get new
    chainrings.  Despite this problem, on the flats, it was the smoothest
    and quietest ride and shifting the bike has ever done.  I am pleased.
    The only rough shift is coming down from the two largest cogs, the chain
    hangs up in between for a revolution, the pops onto the correct cog. 
    Any suggestions or adjustments that could cure this ?  
    
    	Another question, I did buy the Shimano chain which came with two
    special pins for assembling the chain.  Is this the only pin that you
    use to disassemble the chain and must it be replaced each time with a
    new pin ?  Also, the instructions are not that clear, how does one
    shorten the chain, pop out the regular pins and go.  I have not done 
    this yet as I want to see what new chainrings sizes I get.  The current 
    ones are 40x52.  I read a note in here on setting correct chain length 
    and will follow that procedure.   
    
	Lastly, how well lubed are new components out of the box.  Though
    they all seemed lubed, I'm not sure how long to go before servicing.
    Any suggestions ?  
    
    Thanks
    
    ...Tom
    

    re: .13, Shimano chains...
    
    There was a discussion of Shimano chains and pins a few months back,
    try  DIR/TITLE=CHAIN and see what you come up with.  I don't remember
    the upshot, except that it was more complicated than it seemed it
    should be...
    
    Andy

      Try micro adjusting that one gear using the barrel adjustment on the
      derailleur. One gear can be a little off and the rest appear right
      in.
    
      Stuff is usually lubed well, however I have a big problem
      (personally) with the stuff they use for the chains. I strip
      the stuff and dab on PEDRO's...
    
       Chip

Re Hyperglide chaina: I think the deal is that whenever you break the chain 
you have to throw away the rivet where you broke the chain with a new black
rivet. 

Re setting the indexing: as Chip says, fiddle with the barrel adjuster to
see if that helps. The b-tension adjustment screw may help too, I usually
set this so that the derailleur jockey wheels run as close as possible to
the block. Also check that the limit screw on the derailleur isn't 
inhibiting the shift to largest cog.


Rod

    Here's where I'm at with the upgrade:
    
    	From past attempts, I new I could not easily find new chain rings 
    for the bolt pattern on the Stronglight cranks.  The bolt center to
    center measurement is 74MM.  So, to make the upgrade complete, I went
    and ordered the Shimano 105 cranks, 175's (up from 170's) with a 39x53 
    gearing.  I also said, what the heck and ordered the front derailleur 
    too (so the new bike will have to wait....).  I installed the components 
    last night and took a quick spin around the block.  The grinding is gone 
    and the system shifts very smoothly.  I tuned in the barrel adjuster for 
    the larger cogs in the rear and that seems to have solved the problem.  
    I plan a good test ride today at lunch to shake it out a bit further.  
    The only remaining adjustment is to set the correct chain length, I've 
    left it long until the gearing was complete.  I will likely adjust it 
    tonight.
    
    	Another question: The new cranks came with allen bolts to hold the
    arms on, no dust caps, as there is a gray rubber washer that seals the
    threads.  The bottom bracket on the bike is a Shimano sealed cartridge
    installed earlier this season.  It had 14mm bolts and dust caps.  Is
    there any difference in strength or holding power.  My concern is
    generated because I have had previous problems with the left crank 
    working loose (several seasons ago) and do not want a repeat.  I like
    to set it and forget it.  Going to carry the correct size allen wrench
    in my seat bag for a while to be sure.
    
    	An curious observation, when I was adjusting the front derailleur,
    the instructions seemed incorrect in terms of which adjustment screw
    moved the cage.  When I followed the instructions, I got it to the
    point where the cage would not move off the small chain ring.  When I
    reversed the procedure, it tuned in fine.  Either I was too tired and
    read wrong, or the instructions are incorrect.  Anyone have similar
    experience or did I do something totally wrong ? 
    
    	Another surprize was just how little difference a 175 crank arm is
    compared to a 170.  I got my metrics screwed up a was expecting a
    bigger difference.  It just doesn't seem like all that much though
    one of my riding friends says it will help me climb better (I'll take
    anything that'll help in that department).  We'll see.....
    
    ...Tom  
    
    
    
    	

    The first time I went from 170 to 172.5 I found that I had muscle aches
    on both top and bottom of my quads.  I attributed this to a slightly
    greater use of the muscle.  Never had any difference since.
    
    The current "low profile" DuraAce crank also has an Allen bolt.  At
    first I was worried about getting enough torque on it and used the 14
    mm hex head to do the tightening and then removed that and put the
    allen head bolt in for the final step.  I no longer do that.
    
    ed

I went from 170 to 175 cranks last season with no problems. Like many things
in cycling, whether they actually deliver 'better climbing' is very to measure;
it certainly wasn't as if I was suddenly going 2kph faster on every hill.
But they do feel more natural for my leg length.


Rod

    
    Yesterday at lunch was the first real test.  Went out of ZKO and did
    19 miles.  Only one way to describe the performance.......SWEET !
    The bike has not felt that smooth or shifted that cleanly and QUIETLY !
    since it was brand new.  Even then, it was not as quiet as the ratchet
    in the new FW is quieter then the old.  
    
    I went out at what I thought to be a leisurely pace and ended up with
    one of the best times for the 19 mile route this season.  I was very
    surprized as I took care not to push the new components too hard until
    I get some confidence in my handiwork.  No special aches from the
    longer crank arms.  The only real notice is one shifts from the 53
    chainring to the 39.  Its clearly a different jump then the old 52 to
    40.  I found myself wanting to stay in the 53 more, gotta watch the
    knees.
    
    Overall, I must say I'm glad I put out the bucks for the upgrade.  With
    it riding this smoothly, I can live a bit longer without the new bike 
    (like I got a choice). 
    
    Thanks again to all for the advice.
    
    ...Tom