Conference noted::bicycle

    
    There is a book titled STRETCHING written by an MD that is excellent. 
    Every stretch needed, the right and wrong way of doing them and
    routines for things like cycling, running, hiking, etc.  I will get the
    author and publisher when I can get to it.  
    
    john
    

    
    The book is written by Bob Anderson and I suppose he is not an MD. 
    But, I have used it for perhaps 5 years now, and more recently the
    cycling routine which has about 18 exercises.  I don't always do it
    before, but almost always after rides and runs.
    
    The books describes the stretch, the suggested length, and how many
    times.  Details include how to stretch in general, what you should feel
    - pulling and not pain - and so on.
    
    I have seen this book at most book stores and some cycle mail order 
    companies.
    
    Stretching
    Bob Anderson
    Shelter Publications, inc.
    Bolinas, CA, USA
    $9.95
    ISBN: 0-394-73874-8
                                                   

    I do not stretch when my muscles are cold , it could hurt you so I 
    am told . You are suppose warm up then stretch .
    I do not stretch in a consistent manner , I know I should after the
    ride to loosen tight muscles , but beer feels better .
    
    Ed

    
    
    	I've got an old copy of Winning that has a feature showing Banana-
    Falcon rider Chris Lillywhite's stretching exercises. Must say I find
    them the best I've done (when I remember) since they were thought up by a cyclist
    specifically for Cycling needs. I'll pass it onto you if you want.
    
    Graham.

As mentioned before, it doesn't do your muscles any good to stretch them when
they're cold.  You should warm up with light-to-moderate exercise for 5-10
minutes before stretching, do your full routine, and then stretch after.

In the winter, it's most convenient to put your bike on a trainer or use some
other stationary machine (a rower, etc), before the first stretching.  Either
that or get on the bike and ride a few minutes away from your home and back
and get inside quickly for the pre-stretching (before you can cool down again).

                                                          -- Mike

Also as mentioned before, Bob Anderson's book is an excellent resource.  His
company also sells wall charts and laminated cards for your gym bag.

                                                           -- Mike

Thanks for the pointers. 


Rod

    The Anderson book is available in Europe too, I bought it at WH Smith.
    I'd recommend it too.
    
    Phil

     I don't stretch before or after, regardless of the intensity of the
    ride. I tried it when I first tried running (yuck!) about 8 years
    ago. Then tried it when I first got into cycling about 4 years ago.
    
     I didn't notice any benefit. I've always been less than limber, but
    I don't really care.
    
     I've read and watched interviews of many world class athletes. A lot
    of them pass, alot them swear by it... I think it's one of those "if
    it works for you" things.
    
     Chip

RE .9

I've also noticed that many people seem to get along fine without it.  I started
because I get sore after hard exercise.  If I stretch, I don't.  That was good
enough for me.  If I didn't get any benefit from it, I certainly wouldn't waste
the time--stretching before and after takes up about 30 minutes of my routine.

                                                             -- Mike

    I, too, do not stretch after biking, except very minimally (2 minutes,
    maybe).  It depends, I theorize, on the type of biking you do (sprints
    vs. long miles, for example), whether you cool down the last few miles
    or blast down to the final wire, and how you've trained your body -
    i.e., the body can learn an amazing amount, or get used to an amazing
    variety of behavior - my body knows it will get no stretching-session,
    and so it makes do.
    
    However... another reason to stretch is to increase Flexibility and
    Range of Motion over time (which are supposed to be good for you -
    safer, etc.).  My Range of Motion is very limited, and I *should*
    embark on a program of stretching (after riding) ... maybe someday I
    will.  :-)
    
    -john

     I agree with John. As soon as I can no longer unbend myself from
    a fetal position, I'll begin a stretching program... :-)
    
      Chip

    
    
    When I started trying to de-spud myself last year I found myself with a
    fair number of sore aching muscles!  I was especially finding myself
    with a sore lower back from doing a lot of climbing or when I murdered
    myself on the rower.  About that time a friend of mine started up a
    Yoga class here...so I took it.  The stretches have been great...so I'm
    using the Yoga style stretches before and after my workouts...and I've
    increased my workout levels a lot with very little pain.  I attribute
    the lack of injuries and/or pain to the stretching.
    
    -Steve

    But maybe that's because Product Managers are just so good at
    stretching things...  :-)
    
    ed

    I've found my knee feels better if I stretch the hamstring following
    a workout. I didn't understand why until the last time I saw my
    ortho doc. He demostrated on the model how the hamstring affects
    the supporting structure of the knee. Seemed to make sense at the
    time...
    
    John

    Thanks Graham, the Winning feature on Chris Lillywhite arrived this
    week. I've tried the stretches and see how they could be good. I'm
    not as stiff as I feared I might be. The only problem is that the
    feature doesn't suggest a routine: do I just do every stretch once?
    
    The article accompanying the stretch descriptions was quite interesting
    and struck a few chords with me. Chris L talked about the performance
    of pro cyclist Joop Zoetemelk (that should date it) on the BBC
    programme Superstars. This prog took various sporty people and ran them
    through a range of competitions and gym exercises to see who was the
    best all-round athlete. Anyway, Lillywhite said that "Zoetemelk, who
    was probably the fittest man in the world as regards heart-lung
    capacity, was pathetic". I remember seeing that! It was long before I
    was a confirmed bikie but I remember being embarrassed at the
    performance of Zoetemelk, who I wanted to do well, but could only do
    five pull-ups or whatever while judo stars were doing fifty. Unfair
    comparison, I know, but still. 
    
    Chris L also said he'd played squash a couple of years ago and was
    shattered next day, that many cyclists will feel it in their legs if
    they run for a bus, and that he'd become determined to become more
    all-round fit. I agreed with that too, I played football one day two
    years ago mid-summer when I thought I was fit, and it was *awful* -
    couldn't run for anything after five minutes. 
    
    So cycling produces very narrow fitness if it's all you do. I want to
    be able to run for a bus without worrying!
    
    
    Rod
                                              

    
    	Shame on you! What you doing running for buses when you've got a
    perfectly good bike in the garage :*)
    
    	When I was doing the stretches (that should be 'when I do the
    stretches', but you know...), I was holding the position for 20-30
    seconds, but only doing each one once. That will still take about 10
    minutes.
    
    Graham.
    
    P.S. How many of those Judo starts could climb the Alpe on a bike...
    

    >P.S. How many of those Judo starts could climb the Alpe on a bike...
    
    Well I know one Judo-type who chased me up the Faucille last summer
    (mind you he is crippled right now with a completely inoperative knee).
    
    But Rod has openned up an interesting theme about X-training.  What
    does the panel think ?  
    
    Whilst I logically accept that cross-training is probably a good idea I
    am firstly and foremostly a cyclist - I have very little (non-armchair
    based) sporting interests beyond cycling (probably got a lot to do with
    my complete lack of hand-eye coordination).  The only reason I do other
    sports is to make me a better cyclist and I avoid upper body work since
    I see no reason to carry all that muscle up a hill.
    
    As far as stretching goes: I try to do a stretch morning and night - I
    have no idea how much good it does my body but it helps assuage guilt. 
    Also one of the reasons I still do Aerobics once a week it to get the
    all round stretch that these sessions end up with.

    
    I, too, must confess being feeble in even ordinary-seeming activities
    off the bike.  For example, Christmas shopping at the Malls (with or
    without family) leaves me shattered - it involves *walking*.  Of course
    the psychological cost must also be weighed... :-(
    
    Cross country skiing (skate-style or not) should be very good cross
    training.  It's a good cycling-like motion (kind of) for the legs, plus
    gets the upper body toned, and is tremendously aerobic.  For me,
    though, it's not convenient enough. (Being a cyclist or runner spoils 
    you for sports where you must spend a lot of trouble to go do the activity. 
    The ideal was in Munich, where my apt. bounded a city park, which had 
    lighted cross country trails - Langlaufloipe, Norbert - in winter.)
    
    I'm now starting into running a bit.  Gradually.  The built-up biker
    physique is terrible for running - all those extra pounds in the quads
    and hamstrings to lug around. :-)  But it's aerobic (up hills) and I
    hope it will build up shin muscles and the ankles, which are weak in
    cyclists.  Also, it's outside, so it's easier to abide than working out
    in the gym or at home.
    
    Rollerblading would definitely be worth considering, as an equivalent
    to skating or skiing.
    
    Upper-body build-up seemed to help the East Germans in Olympic cycling
    in years past.  I believe general upper body conditioning (not muscle
    mass) helps.  More critical are lower and upper back and abdomen!
    Also, the neck muscles (for those of us not sitting upright, although
    I guess Robin may need this less, since he's angling up the Alps all
    the time, making him more vertical).
    
    Here's just one way where lower back muscles can increase your speed
    and your pleasure in cycling: heading hours into a headwind, you can
    keep in a tuck (with or without aero-bars) longer, thus expending less
    energy and going faster.  Try this without a strong lower back and
    you'll feel it for sure.
    
    Enough of a treatise...
    -john

    RE: Stretching:
    
    At the USCF development & coaches camps they recommended stretching &
    had us do stretching exercises every morning.  Further input:
    
    o Do each stretch once, holding it for 20-30 seconds, never to the
      point of pain, consciously relaxing the muscle as you stretch.
    o If you want to increase your flexibility significantly, plan on
      stretching three times per day.  Once per day will maintain or
      improve only marginally.  How we fit 3-stretching sessions into
      one day is beyond this working man!
    
    Regards,
    Mark
    
    PS - stretching is critical for anyone that has problems with 
         illiotibial band syndrome (sharp pain in ligament that runs
         from the hip to the outside of the knee); there are stretches
         to gently stretch the ligament.

     I don't think anyone will disagree that cross training is bad. I
    don't think anyone will disagree that any one sport ends up being
    narrow (except the combo-sports, e.g. bi's & tri's).
    
     I think most people who compete will agree that TIME is the problem.
    If you want to be a contender in a sport today, you basically have
    to concentrate on THAT sport to do well (unless you have the time).
    
     I would love to do more x-training, but my first love is cycling
    and that's what I invest in.
    
      Chip

	re: .19

	John, you hit the point. Running is a very good aerobic exercise and
	does strengthen other muscles then cycling. In Winter, and when I 
	have enough time, I prefer skiing (as you told: Langlaufen). The
	exercise is more complete, it hurts less in the ankles and knees and
	you do not feel dangle around the bikie thighs and calfs! But the 
	problem is that one invests as much time in driving to the place as 
	for skiing itself. It's a pitty.

	Norbert