Conference noted::bicycle

    How much stuff do you have to change to use them?
    
    deraileurs? frewheels?
    
    ed

>>    How much stuff do you have to change to use them?
>>    deraileurs? frewheels?
>>    
>>    ed

argg!!   good question.   The article was just a teaser no real
technical data.    It is quite possible that all the above 
would need to be replaced.   Maybe not the freewheel if the
current Campy system is compatible with Sachs Malliard freewheels
or similar compatible freewheels. 
-Larry

     The current (no-indexed) Campy stuff should be compatible
    with mostly all freewheels.
    
     I thought the article said something like "they always were". And with
    the changes made they continue to be. I'll have to check.
    
      Chip

    	I think you boys are missing the point.
    
    	These aren't "BREAKS", they're "BRAKES". :^))
    
    	Granted they do "break" from time to time.
    
    	The new handle, (singular) is for the FRONT brake & derailleur.
    
    	The right brake handle is used for the REAR brake & derailleur.
    
    	So, the "new" handle has been designed with more "throw" to enable
    	it to control the front derailleur across three chainrings, instead
    	of the usual two. The right handle has been designed for eight speed
    	derailleurs only. But you can set it up for seven speed systems.
    
    	And no, I wouldn't pay the friggin' price the Italians want for
    	these marvels of technology.
    
    	No brakeset is worth several hundred dollars, even if the handles
    	CAN operate derailleurs.
    
    	P.S.	I've seen some recent photos of Andy Hampsten and his
    		Motorola machine. Andy has the Dura-Ace STI set-up, but
    		only on the right side. He still prefers the down tube
    		shifter to operate his front derailleur!

>And no, I wouldn't pay the friggin' price the Italians want for
>these marvels of technology.

rumor mill: i just heard that Sachs is going to offer a Campy style (Campy
*made*) brake/shifter lever. the word is it'll be 75$ less than campy wholesale.

    The November edition of the UK rag "Cycling Plus" tested these. They
    seemed impressed, the general conclusion being that they worked. How
    you like them depends on how you like Ergopower compared to STI or
    conventional shifters. I'm not sure if Campag make them or if Sachs
    just copied/licensed the design. The picture in the mag had S A C H S
    writ-large on the front of the levers. And they're "cheap". L110 in the
    UK now, though by the time they're available the floating pound is
    bound to increase that. I imagine $100 to $150 in the U.S. (levers
    only).

According to Velo 2000, Campag make them for Sachs having reached an agreement.
I think in fact that the Sachs brakes are Modolo under a similar agreement.  It
is also very confusing because the new Sachs chainset is Campag made but with a
slightly different finish.  Further confusion with the C93 set now named I
think Campag Veloce which seems to be a serious attack on the Shimano 105.  This
set makes considerable use of alternative materials such as "resin".

For what it's worth, Velo 2000 says that for a conventional system, it cannot
see any reason for buying other than Shimano 105, - Ultegra and Dura-Ace work
no better and just cost more, especially as the 105 is now available as 8-speed.

More opinions on the Campag changer/lever -
- Less prone to error by braking rather than shifting (!!!)
- Less clumsy-looking
- More than 1 cog at a time (big sprocket to small I think)
- Tidier cable layout
- Easier to use in positions other than on the hooks.

What do I know, or care...  I'm currently using (succesfully!) ::
- 6-speed Sun Tour block (14-23)
- Sedis black chain
- Sun Tour 2000? long arm rear mech (ca. 1980)
- Sachs Jubilee front mech
- Campag Chorus (non-index) levers
- TA 5-pin cranks + Cyclo-Touriste rings 32/38/50 (ca. 1970)
- the one concession to modernity - Look pedals !!

I dunno... I could be interested in the Sachs shift unit if it's that price.
Can it handle a front triple changer? And what implications does it have
for the rest of the drivetrain, like who's derailleur and block do I need
to install?


Rod

>I think in fact that the Sachs brakes are Modolo under a similar agreement.

I heard that Sach's new brakes are to be made by CLB.

re -.1  Of course I meant CLB, I just get confused after the big five-0..

re -.2  I think the 8-sp Aris block will work and either Campag or Sachs rear
        mechs.  I suspect it's a move to shut out Shimano, so I wouldn't
        expect Shimano blocks to be compatible.  But on the other hand - I use
        a Shimano 600 with 7-sp Aris.......  Confusing, isn't it?  As for 3
        rings, I dunno, I can't figure out how you can get a "click-shift" for
        the front anyway, I always need a micro-adjust as I go up and down at
        the back.  (Anyone know where I can get a Bartali Simplex rod front
        changer and avoid all this technology?)

        Is this just Rod's way of re-starting the Great Gear Ratio Debate??

 >> (Anyone know where I can get a Bartali Simplex rod front
 >>  changer and avoid all this technology?)

	Rod W would have you believe that I use one on my bike connected to
    an old single chainring (3 is just for show offs) cottered chainset.
    And I still say that Mavic have yet to beat cane rims...
    
    Graham.

I have seen a road bicycle with Campag. STRATOS (or Strator, or Stratus ?)
equipment. It was ergo-powered.

Is this another attempt of Campy, after Veloce, to compete against 
Shimano 105, or do they sell their fabulous reputation to some other 
maker for survival ? 

     I'm not as to the answer you're looking for... Word has it that
     SACHS ergo is, indeed, Campy.
    
     Triple chain ring brakes?
    
     

    I think Stratos is another attempt by Campag to have a low-end
    groupset. Campag seems to have a history of introducing groupsets
    which are supposed to be low-end, but turn out to have just too much
    quality (and cost) to compete in the mass market - see Chorus, Athena.
    Perhaps they now feel the same about Veloce.
    
    
    Rod

No maybe about it - Stratos IS a new low end Campag groupset.  It has a lot 
of resin (plastic) bits in it and its Ergo mech is different in action to the 
rest of the range in that it has only 1 lever which goes up and down the 
block, rather than the 2 which are used in Athena, Veloce etc.

I think we are all being a bit negative about Campag, at least they are doing 
something about competing with the Japanese, rather than the way the French 
and English component manufacturers' acted ie: roll over and cry Uncle....

AND I don't care what you say, my Athena 8 works better than the Shimano 600 
7-speed I have, and here we are talking like for like in price terms.

    Hey, I wasn't being critical, just observational. My Veloce Ergo setup
    is working beautifully.
    
    
    Rod

Hey Rod, you're getting a bit sensitive, but I'll let you off on the grounds 
that you are still suffering from Montezuma's revenge.....

(it's just I personally get a bit fed up with everyone buying this stuff 
without thinking about the consequences - in my opinion, Europe should attack 
the Japanese now they are in a political and economic turmoil and destroy a 
few of their industries for a change.  This of course won't happen because we 
are all just too caring and decent and won't kick people when they are 
down....)

     WHO WON'T KICK WHO WHEN THEY'RE DOWN????    :-)

    
    Well known fact that I've not kicked Lemond since he's been down. All 3
    years of it....  :*)
    
    Graham.

re -.1

...but you can't complain that Lemond has wrecked your industry and taken 
your job....

re -.2

Yeah Chip, let's go for 'em...

    
    re -.1
    
    Complete opposite, in fact. Lemond has motivated me at work. If ever I
    couldn't be bothered getting outof bed in the morning, I would just
    think of all the Lemond abuse I was missing and would be in like a
    flash...  :*)
    
    Anyway, I agree with you in principle. If I can buy what I want British
    (and this doesn't just apply to bike stuff), I will. If I can't but
    it's European, then no problem, as long as they stop burning our sheep
    :*). Japanese comes last on the list, but the problem is that Japanese
    can discover markets never catered for before, and as a result, there
    is some Japanese posessions in my house. My bike is the same. I do have
    Shimano stuff on my bike, because Campag took too long to discover that
    there was a racing market out there who belived that 4 figures was just
    silly to spend on a bike. Now they are, I would equip a bike with
    Campag, but unfortunately, when I wanted stuff for my Gazelle 6 years
    ago, I had to go Japanese. That's Campags problem now. Shimano had a
    problem in the 80s presuading cyclists that it could compete with
    Shimano. Now, with so many converts to the sport in the last 8 years,
    Campag have got the problem trying to persuade punters that they can
    compete with Shimano...
    
    Graham.