Conference noted::bicycle

    I had a Cannondale Bugger.  It was the best thing for giving the kids
    a nap.  By the time I had gone a mile they would be fast asleep.  I had
    little trouble pulling them up a hill, and I could feel them pushing me
    down hills.  On flat surfaces I could hardly tell I was pulling a
    trailer with 2 kids in it.
    
    The kids sit backwards in the Cannondale which I think is good so my
    bike would not kick up rocks and things into their faces.  The
    Cannondale also tracked very good.  I could easily do a U turn on a
    small country road.
    
    There is also a market for used bike trailers, so I don't think you can
    loose much buying one.
    
    Dave

    	The hilliest week that I ever did was a bike tour in Colorado
    with some people who read, but don't write to this file. (Hi!) One
    couple did the entire week pulling a bugger behind their tandem.
    They were geared down pretty low going up, and it looked slow, but
    not too painful.  On the flats and descents (ESPECIALLY the descents)
    they were plenty fast.  Have you thought about a tandem and some
    cash out of pocket for the trailer?  Borrow a tandem before you
    buy one, though.  I've been told that some couples love tandems,
    and for others they cause magnitude 8 arguments.  If it works for
    you, the power is certainly there to pull a trailer at speed.

I towed my two daughters in a trailer (home built) for years - it was
the perfect "equalizer" - a comfortable pace for me pulling the girls
was also the right pace for my wife riding alone.

    Hey, I've done that -- pull a trailer with a baby in it from a tandem!
    Yeah, it works great.  It works great.  And no it wasn't mine.  We had
    swapped bikes and the mom (Sue Notorangelo) was driving my tandem.
    
    Good thing I didn't get diaper duty!
    
    Once a stoker,
    ed

    I use an Equinox trailer.  I believe it is very similar design as the
    Burley.  They claim the trailer can hold 150lbs.  The Equinox also
    converts to a ski trailer, we used it last weekend and it worked pretty
    well.  One thing about buggers, whatever type you have is that the
    time it takes to put everything together and the kid in the seat
    a lot of time is wasted.  I wish we had a garage it would make
    things much easier.
    
    You may consider moving to a tandem with the child pedal extenders. 
    
    steve

It's funny how the tandem suggestion has come into the discussion. 
My wife and I rented about the heaviest tandem I have ever seen 
while on vacation in Nantucket Island a few years back. I worked 
pretty hard (she did too, she claims :-) ). It was a lot of fun. 
My wife was the stoker, and loved being able to gawk at the 
scenery and leave the worries about the road to me. This 
arrangement suited me fine. Since then, I have often wondered if 
we would like a tandem. I tend to think we would. So we look 
longingly at the ads and showroom models. Hey, I wonder if Burley 
would give a "family" package deal on a tandem/trailer combo.

The picture that the tandem/trailer comination paints is a good 
one. I can imagine that it would get some attention from cars 
passing. It is not something you see every day.

I wonder how climing hills would be on that set up? Aren't 
tandems supposed to be slow on the hills in their own right? Add 
a trailer to that and you have a slow climb I would think. 

I suppose some day soon I will have to bite the bullet and test 
ride a burley trailer. It seems like the burley is getting the 
rave reviews in this file anyway.

Thanks for all of the great replies and suggestions!

JC

    The subject of climbing on a tandem is discussed in another note but,
    IMHO it boils down to the fact that two riders on a tandem will climb
    no better than the lesser of the two would do alone and if they have
    really disparate styles it gets worse.  Two good, compatible climbers
    can do incredible things.
    
    Add a trailer and, oh well, dowshift it, will ya!
    
    ed

RE .0:
    
>This year is a bit of a problem. My son now weighs about 38 pounds 
>which is approaching the recommended limit for the conventional 
>seat. So I have two less than ideal choices here. I can take a 
>chance and continue to put my son in the seat or tell him he can't 
>go. So either I risk our safety or break his heart. 
    
    I would definitely not go above the recommended weight limit.  Its been
    a lot of years, but I can remember how unstable it felt to have my 30
    pound daughter shifting her weight in a bike seat behind me.  I sure
    wouldn't want anything much heavier wiggling around that high up behind
    me!
    
    We bought a Cannondale Bugger back when they first came out.  It worked
    EXTREMELY well for us - gave the kid a comfortable place to ride, room
    to store things for her (and us) to nibble and play with, and even had
    a seat belt to keep her in the seat.  It faced backward and my wife and
    daughter would have rambling conversations while we rode.
    
    This was long enough ago that it was during the craze when people were
    putting the long poles with pennants on top on bikes.  We put one on
    the trailer just to make sure cars coming up behind over hills would
    see that SOMETHING was there even before they could see us.
    
>Wind resistance, potholes, how fast can you go?, cross winds, 
>dealing with cars, climbing hills, stopping distances, can you keep 
>a decent pace?

    We never went very fast so pace wasn't a problem.  Wind, however, is. 
    As that previous reply said - into a headwind you'll feel like you're
    on flat tires.  Stopping distances are quite a bit longer and require
    you to think more - just like ANY trailer that doesn't have its own
    brakes.  
    
    We NEVER had a problem dealing with cars.  If you think they gawk now,
    imagine back in 1971 in northern Indiana where nobody even rode a BIKE
    - seeing people pulling a TRAILER!  People used to honk and wave
    (really WAVE not GESTURE) because it was so unusual.
    
>Do the kids like them? Do they stay setteled.

    My daughter liked the trailer a WHOLE lot better than the bike seat. 
    She had definite ideas about what things she wanted to take with her.
    
    
    Now, since we've started riding again, we use it to haul equipment for
    picnics and things sometimes when my wife goes with me.  It works great
    to equalize our speed (which is slow to begin with) since I usually
    pull the trailer about one gear lower than I ride without it.  
    
    It was, and still is, a good investment for us.
    
    Davie Perez

    The Equinox fold down.  However it is not on hinges, so it does take a
    few minutes to fold down and put together.  It has alloy quick release
    wheels.  Weighs in at approx 18lbs.
    
    How easy does the Burley fold?
    
    steve

>    The Equinox fold down.  However it is not on hinges, so it does take a
>    few minutes to fold down and put together.  It has alloy quick release
>    wheels.  Weighs in at approx 18lbs.


Which dealers in the Central Mass area sell Equinox? How much do 
they cost?  I have not yet seen them or found a source.


>    How easy does the Burley fold?


I have not seen the folding Burley yet as they have not reached 
the stores yet. 

I saw the non-folding Burley today. It looks like a very nice unit. 
It costs plenty but I think you get a lot of quality for the money.


JC
  

    O'neils in Worcester orders them.  They do not keep regular stock,
    as this is a low volume item.  Prices are highly variable on the
    system because of all of the attachment options, rain shields, wheels
    etc.  For a full blown bike setup, you can expect to pay $350 with
    their best stuff (at a guess).  If you would like to see the system,
    send me mail and I will be glad to show you.
    
    REI markets this brand also, however your options are more limited.
    
    steve

Equinox 800-942-7895

>expect some aggressive pricing on these........ List is $995.
>There is picture of this tandem in the March 1990 Buyers guide from 
>Bicycling Magazine in the 12 hottest new models article.
    
    	Not to get too far off the subject, but has anyone actually
    seen the Trashbar Tandem offered in the new spring catalog?
    It's under $1000.00, looks like a burley, but has an additional
    drum brake controlled by the stoker.  Looks neat but I wondered
    about the quality.  Any day now my daughter will be big enough to
    reach the pedals so the bugger is definately out :-)
    	
    						_Jerry

    A brake controlled by the stoker!  That would be the end of 60 mph
    descents.
    
    ed

>    A brake controlled by the stoker!  That would be the end of 60 mph
>   descents.
 
    	I was thinking pretty much the same thing after
    considering that I'll be riding with a 5 or 6 yr.
    old in the stoker position.  She might think it's
    great watching daddy jerk up and down every time 
    she pulls the lever, even while were riding on the
    flats.  This is one cable that probablay gets
    severed by the pilot after every bike's initial
    ride since I can't imagine even the most homogeneous
    couples both agreeing on when to use the brakes and
    in what amount of force to be applied, it's like
    telepathic feathering :-)
    						_Jerry

    I have (in another note "Baby & me") been considering several
    alternatives to toting our children around.   In researching trailers,
    I've found the following models and $$ available.
    
    o  Cannondale bugger - $250 at O'Neils in Worcester
    o  Burley Delite  -    $350 at Cycle Loft in Burlington
    o  Burley - Lite  -    $300 at Cycle Loft   "   "
    o  Nashbar Trailer   - $170  (similiar design to Equinox??)
    o  Equinox Trailer   - $350 at Performance & Equinox
    
    I've only seen the Burleys.  I'll look at the Cannondales if I think
    its suitable.  The Nashbar trailer is not stored at their store so I 
    will only be able to  "see" it via their catalog.  I haven't found 
    anyplace that has the Equinox's in stock...
    
    Does anybody have the Nashbar trailer??  
    
    How about the newest model of the Cannondale?  Does it have room to
    store anything else other than "the children"??
    
    Does anywhere else have the trailers for less $$$?
    
    I want to be able to tote my 2 1/2 year old and my 9 month old.  Safety
    shoulder and lap belts are a must!!!  
    
    Although my husband will probably be the "horse" on our occasional
    weekend rides, I do want to be able to easily remove the trailer to put
    on my own bike for me to solo with the kids.
    
    Geez, I know I've been asking for advise all over this file, but I 
    seek advise only from those who have had first hand experience!
    
    For those with trailers, please respond.   What trailer do you have and
    why did you choose the one you have???
    
    Thanks, noters.
    
    Laurel 

>    Does anybody have the Nashbar trailer??  
 
         The Nashbar trailer is similar to the Cannondale but
         somewhat lower quality. The wheels look to be smaller and
         are steel. If you haven't seen this style of trailer
         before, the trailer hitches to your seatpost. The kids ride
         backwards. I am not sure if there is much storage room.
            
    Does anywhere else have the trailers for less $$$?

         The only way that I have been able to find to save money is
         to buy either the Nashbar trailer or the winchester. I
         frankly didn't like either one of those two.

    
    Geez, I know I've been asking for advise all over this file, but I 
    seek advise only from those who have had first hand experience!


         I know what you mean. I am sure people are getting sick of
         my notes too. :-)
    
    For those with trailers, please respond.   What trailer do you have and
    why did you choose the one you have???
    
         I have put a deposit down on the Burley Delight. I liked
         the quality and the "foldability". We will soon see how it
         goes. 

>>    For those with trailers, please respond.   What trailer do you have and
>>    why did you choose the one you have???
  
I have a Burley - Lite for the following reasons.

	o Very light 17-19 lbs
	o Trailer hitch mounts to the bike, in front of the rear wheels axel not
	  up on the seat post. This makes for a more stable ride, esp with
	  cross winds.
	o Sling seat is more comfortable. (at least Chris P thinks so :-)
	o Roll cage design bult in.
	o Wheels dished for wider tracking (help reduce roll over) 
	o Storage space behind seat (more than enough room)
	o Totally enclosed rider compartment (keeps toys and bottles inside)
	o High quality workmanship.

Have any questions and want to take it off line give me a call or send mail

Tom 288-6604

    Equinox's can be seen at REI stores.  Due to options, the price can
    vary from $275 to $400+.  O'neils in Worcester have stated they will
    meet or beat REI's price.
    
    Equinox design is similar to the Burley.  It can also be adapted for
    x-crountry skiing, running, and other activities.  It folds up (std
    feature)
    
    steve
    
    

We took the plunge for the Burley DeLite, (foldable).  This is a front facing
style which appeals to me, I prefer looking ahead .  It is a big (IMO) ticket
item.  We purchased it from Franks in Framingham and a comment about their
staff in order.  They were all knowledgable, informative and polite.  I brought
my bike and my 42LB, 3 1/2yr old with me.  I was allowed to try it in the 
parking lot next door to see if my son liked it.  After a couple of laps I 
asked, he was beaming all he did is smile and nod  :-).  We made the purchase
including the sun/insect screen, there's also an acetate rain screen available.
The unit is very well constructed and is easily installed.  There is plenty of 
space behind the passenger compartment for a playmate cooler and small picinic 
basket.  The side curtains have acetate windows which is nice for the li'l guy. 
It is equiped with a "Y" shoulder harness, as well as, a lap belt.  Both are 
easily adjusted/fitted to the passengers size, (less than 5 minute initial set 
up) after that it's two simple plastic buckles.  There are accomdations for 
strapping in 2 children but we only have one child so I didn't really look at 
that option.  Attaching to the bike is also realtively easy, not obvious at 
first but easy after having done it once.  It connects to frame members just 
forward of the axle via a heavy duty tightly wound coil spring (~3/4 inch in 
diameter).  This is probably a bit of overkill but I would rather it that way.  
The spring provides for nice flexiblity in all directions.  This allows the 
bike to be leaned or even layed on its side w/o leaning the trailer.  It 
appears that in the event of an upset for the bike that the trailer would 
remain upright, (that's nice to know).  The unit is foldable w/quick release 
wheels easily fits into the trunk of our Ford Tempo.  Soooo how does it pull?

The very first thing I noticed was...... nothing.   Ahhh it's barely noticeable 
on the flats, even in top gear.  I was aware of a slight push down the hills 
but, had no trouble braking with either or both brakes.  I didn't try a panic 
stop but will next time out.  On non-paved roads it was just as easy even on
small grades.  The smaller grades required a two gear drop.  It pulled smoothly 
behind and tracked very well, NO SURPRISES!  

Going up steeper paved grades is a slightly different matter.  The one hill in 
town which I usually avoid, even when solo, was a BEAR.  I have to admit not 
being in biking condition/fittness, not an excuse just a fact this was my first 
time out this year.  I do feel confident that once back in condition it won't 
be all that bad.

All in all, I am very happy with the trailer.  It's a pleasure being able to
have a conversation with Glenn and point things out of interest.  This was just
a local short (~10 mile) trial run.  Glenn was very happy to be out riding 
again (why not it's a free ride :-)!  However, he had had enough and was getting
bored.  It's comforting to know there's ample storage room in the passenger
compartment for him to bring along a few toys, some snack, some beverages, etc.
etc,.  Really there is a lot of room for his personal desires.  There's even
a ~6" x ~14 side pocket on each side, plus room on each side of him.  I will
be adding something to his foot area to prevent excessive wear... one layer of
fabric may not last all that long with him.  We live in Westford Ma. and if
any of you wish to take a look-see, give me a call.

Frank  dtn 293-5626
e-mail 30651::FERREIRA

    Last Sunday we were in Washington, D.C., and spent the day bicycling
    around town seeing the sights.  While on the bike trail near the
    Watergate, I saw a bike with trailer coming towards me (I think it was
    one of those Nashbar buggies).  After our paths crossed I turned around
    expecting to see a cute baby in tow, but instead saw a cute little dog
    having the ride of its life.

         Well we got ours to try out last night. It is the foldable
         Burley. It works great.

         We sure turned a few heads in Northboro:

         "Hey Harry Quick lookit this!"

         "Oh look honey, isn't that cute...."


         Got waves from the guys sitting at the 19th hole at the
         Juniper Hill Golf Course.

         Lots of slow passing cars. I have never been treated so
         well!


         I liked it. Tracks well. Hard on the uphill pushes on the
         downhill. It sure is confusing to figure out what the heck
         to do with potholes though.

         Lots 'o Fun,

         JC

We just came from a mini-vacation in Stowe, Vt.  There's a shop that rents
bikes and trailers.  The following information is taken from literature I
found in our Inn lobby.  BTW we stayed at the Salzburg Inn on rte 108
Tele 802 253-8541 there's an 800 # for reservations that you can get from
800 info, sorry I don't have it.  The people at the in are most hospitable
run a clean operation, hot tub, sauna, indoor and outdoor pools.  At $57/nite/
couple including a continental breakfast was a such a deal, especially the
hot-tub for those tired muscles.  There's nothing in this for me except the
pleasure of having stayed there.  Anyway;;;;;;........

			The Mountain Bike Shop
			Mountain Rd   (rte 108)
			Stowe, Vermont    (802) 253-7919
					1 hour		1/2 day		full day
	Mountain & Road Bikes		$6.00		14.00		20.00
	Single-speed Bikes		 4.00		 8.00		12.00
	Kids Bikes	 		 4.00		 8.00		12.00
	Kids & Baby Trailers		 4.00		 8.00		12.00
	    (buggers)

	(helmets, packs, baby backpacks & maps available)

I didn't have the occasion to stop in, however, I would assume that making
reservations for trailer rentals would be advisable.

Enjoy
Frank

    Another new Burley owner from Northboro.  A neighbor had ordered a
    foldable Delite from Lincoln Guide Service, but while he awaits
    delivery (late August) he got a non-foldable rental unit as a loaner. 
    I took it out for a 10 miler and really liked it.  
    
    So as I walk down Main St. in Marlboro yesterday leaving the bank, I
    passed Steve's Mass Transit and saw a Burley in the window.  I go in 
    and ask about a foldable one, turns out it *was* a foldable one.  Paid
    $375 with the two-child harness and bug/sunscreen.  A bit high, but I
    got to take it home right away.  He won't have more until (you guessed
    it) late August.  
    
    One thing about the Delite is that it is *not* convertible to the
    touring version like the Lite is.  That's because it uses different
    upper frame tubing.  Steve suggested that since it's a new model, that
    Burley will probably offer a conversion kit in the future.  If not,
    well, I'm sure I can always sell it when my kids are too big for it.  
    
    Despite the trouble with hills (as others noted, I run about two gears
    lower than when loaded with one child in a seat) the handling is
    superb, much better than a seat, which gets wobbly every time my
    daughter decides to lean over to look at something.  Plus no more
    getting kicked in the rear end or getting wedgies  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    In central MA, Lincoln Guide Service rents them for $15 a day, and
    believe me a one hour ride is going to tell you more about whether or
    not you can live with a trailer than a couple of laps around a parking
    lot.
    
    							Brian

         I noticed on sat. that Landry's new store in Westboro next
         to Somerville Lumber, has a D'lite on display. You will pay
         for it. 

         The trailer with the screen cover option was $380.

         BTW the screen is not an option in my opinion.

         I got mine in late May, early June ? at the Bicycle Barn
         for $350 with screen.

         It seems that Landry's think that these are kinda' like
         Hondas......

         Landry's was expensive on everything. Not even a grand
         opening sale. $85 for a helmet????

         JC

    I've been following this note for some time, and I guess we're going
    to have to get a trailer; I think we're going to take .28's advice
    first and rent one from Lincoln Guide Svc first, to make sure it's
    the way to go. 

    In going back through this note, here's the dealers I came up with
    (we're looking for a Burley, but this includes the Cannondale dealers
    as well): 

       Landry's
       Bicycle Barn
       Frank's in Framingham
       someplace in Sudbury where we went and weren't impressed by the dealer...
       Steve's Mass Transit
       O'Neil's

    All the places mentioned previously seem to be in Massachusetts - can
    anyone name some possible (hopefully Burley) dealers in NH?  Also,
    howzabout adding any Mass dealers I may have left out?

    Thanks,
    Charlie

    Buchika's on Rt. 28 in Salem, NH has both Burley and C'dale trailers.
    
    Pedler's (near Islington St.) in Portsmouth NH has Burley trailers.
    
    Both places have the same prices.
    
    Buchika's probably has better availability.
    
    Naults in Manchester, NH DOES NOT carry Burley's - says they are
    unsafe.
    
    There's a bikeshop in Exeter, NH that carries Burley, I forget the
    name, but it is on Water St.
    
    And that's just about it for the Manchester-Portsmouth-Salem area.
    I know - I called just about all of them.
    
    Phil
    

>    Naults in Manchester, NH DOES NOT carry Burley's - says they are
>    unsafe.
    


         Just curious, but do you happen to have the reasoning behind
         their not carrying it? What is unsafe about Burley's in
         particular, or do they not like the trailers that connect
         to the axel? Do they also dislike the Winchester and
         Equinox? Do they prefer the Cannondale?

         Interesting....


         One place in Natick on route 9 is the Cycle Center.


         JC
 
             

    RE: <<< Note 1431.31 by IMPULS::LAWRENCE >>>
         -< South-Eastern NH Burley dealers >-

    Thanks for the list, and thanks for doing the legwork!
    
    Charlie

    RE: 32, Naults
    
    They didn't say and I didn't ask.  It was the first time I heard
    anyone say they were unsafe, therefore I figured it was one guy's
    biased opinion.  I figured they were safer than others because you
    can't tip them over easily.
    
    Phil

    I saw  a  trailer  (I  think it was a Burley, but I'm not sure) at
    Belmont Wheelworks, Belmont MA.

--David

    I'm looking into the C'Dale trailer, and found that Goodale's in
    Nashua carries them. Price: $269.00
    BTW - What would you expect to pay for a 3 year old unit? I may
    know of one for sale.
    
    John

John,

Perfect timing!!!  I just went out and bought the Burley D'Lite last night, now
I see your note for the possible used trailer.  We got it for (drum roll,
please...) $325, a whopping $25 off list.  I'm sure there are several others
reading this notesfile looking for a used (read: reasonably priced) one as
well, though, so they'd probably appreciate the info.

Such is life...  

Thanks,
Charlie

    re .-1
    I didn't mean I had one for sale. I'm looking to buy, and I found a
    used one. Picked it up last Friday as a matter of fact. It's the
    C-dale model, 3 years old. The owner didn't use it much, and just
    carried his dog around when he did (talk about disposable income!).
    
    But anyway, I tried it out, first with my daughter (about 40 pounds),
    then with her and her cousin (close to 90 lbs total). I found it
    very stable, and enjoyable on the flats. Hills are another story.
    With an ATB, you stay in the granny gear. I'll be swapping chainrings
    for sure with the road bike when I haul this.
    The kids love it. They sit in a very comfortable position, and we
    can carry on a conversation as long as road noise is at a minimum.
    Bumps that would make one unweight on a bike don't seem to bother
    the occupants of the trailer. So far, it seems like this is something
    rideable for a longish haul. I just need to find routes that are
    slightly wider than where I ride now.
    
    John
    

    I just returned from a 10 day trip to Acadia National Park where we did
    a fair amount of biking on the carriage roads.  I borrowed a
    Cannondale Bugger 4 from a friend and pulled my two youngest (ages 4 and
    6) around.  I attached the bugger to my Cannondale Mt. bike.  The two
    kids weigh close to 100 lbs combined.
    
    The bugger is very stable.  I went down the hills fairly fast and the
    roads are somewhat bumpy.  They are mostly gravel, but some parts have
    holes and big rocks.   The bugger was excellent and I highly recommend
    it.
    
    I was talking with a couple who were pulling a Burley trailer.  It
    looked nice, and I especially like the fact that the bike could be laid
    down without the trailer tipping.  However, I'm not sure I like the
    forward riding position of the kids.  I would be worried about rocks
    and dirt being thrown up into their faces.  The couple I saw had an
    infant in the trailer and she was protected by a mesh screen.  They
    also told me about a plastic "window" which could be used instead of
    the mesh.  This is fine for an infant, but I didn't see how this could
    be used with older children.  Does anyone know if the trailer could be
    used with the passengers facing the rear?
    
    /Jim Pappas
               

>    be used with older children.  Does anyone know if the trailer could be
>    used with the passengers facing the rear?
    
>    /Jim Pappas
               


         I have the folding Burley. Unless you wanted to do some
         major modifications entailing moving pipes around I don't
         see how the kids can be facing backwards.


         As far as rocks and dirt goes, I use the screen when
         hauling my four yr and ten month old. They haven't
         complained yet....

         However, I only ride on paved roads, not gravel or dirt.


         JC

>================================================================================
>Note 1431.39                  Biking with Trailers                      39 of 39
>TECRUS::JIM "Jim Pappas"                             25 lines   6-SEP-1990 20:11
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    I was talking with a couple who were pulling a Burley trailer.  It
>    looked nice, and I especially like the fact that the bike could be laid
>    down without the trailer tipping.  However, I'm not sure I like the
>    forward riding position of the kids.  I would be worried about rocks
>    and dirt being thrown up into their faces.  The couple I saw had an

In fact, the forward facing position was one of the selling factors for me. I
would rather the kids were getting rocks and dirt thrown up by the bike instead
of who knows what thrown up by the cars! This way, I can also talk to them when
we go out with just one bike. Also, the attachment point of the Burley seems
more sensible than the Cannondale. However, there's obviously a market for
both. 

Tim

See note 1649.33

    We have  a  Counterpoint  Opus  tandem  with  a  drum brake. Is it
    possible to attach a Burley trailer to it? When I tried, the hitch
    interfered with the arm of the drum brake. That arm runs under the
    left  chainstay  for about 4 inches, and is how the braking torque
    is transfered from the wheel to the frame, so I can't move it.

    Burley makes  tandems, so I would hope they had thought of this. I
    sent  them  a  letter  asking  a week or so ago, and I'll post any
    response, but I'm also looking for personal experience.

--David

    David,
    
    Of the Five tandems on the last ride I went on (all santanas) four of
    them had the drum removed.  My drum is brand new and still in the box
    (Bob and Sally never put it on).
    
    I would not expect that you would be going REAL fast with a trailer on,
    and would not need a drag brake.
    
    The tandem that had the drum brake on was on a bike used by a couple
    who tour with full gear, and they went to europe with it.  I assume
    that they used/needed it in the mts.
    
    I would like to have some more brake power if I was going fast in the
    hills often.  But for right now my wife gets pissed if I let the speed
    get up over 40 mph, and we don't live in the Alps.
    
    John

    I know  it's  the fad to make tandems lighter, but I also read the
    reports  of  tandems  breaking, and think they're related. Santana
    started  a  trend  to  lighter  tandems with tighter geometry with
    their  89  (plus or minus a year) models, and now don't have a hub
    brake  as  standard  on  any  of  their  equipment.  If  you  read
    "DoubleTalk" (the tandem club of america's news letter) you'll see
    a  lot  of  reports  of rims breaking. Most of those rims are very
    light, and most of them were stock Santana rims.

    As for drum brakes, everyone I know who has looked at it seriously
    recommends  drum  brakes.  Jobst  Brandt  (author  of "The Bicycle
    Wheel")  says that in really steep terrain you may have to stop to
    cool  the  drum  brake  on  some  descents,  and  that it would be
    ridiculous  to  try  them  without  the  drum.  John Allen (safety
    director for Charles River Wheelmen) also strongly recommends drum
    brakes.  If  you  have  a strong stomach, ask him about the tandem
    brake  failures  which  have  gone  to court with him as an expert
    witness.

    The braking  forces  required to slow a tandem are more than twice
    the  forces required to slow a single to the same speed (twice the
    mass,  but  no  more  air  resistance.)  All  that  heat has to go
    somewhere,  and  if  you don't have a drum brake, it goes into the
    rims.  There  are a lot of reports of tandem tires overheating and
    blowing.  A  front  wheel  blowout  on a steep slope could be very
    dangerous, so it's worth trying to avoid it.

    The time  you  most  need a drum brake is when you're not speeding
    down  hills. If you just brake a little for corners, you don't use
    your  brakes  much, and they have time to cool. If you try to keep
    the  bike  slowed  down  all  the  way down the hill, you use your
    brakes a lot more, and give them no time to cool. I think that you
    use  the  brakes the most if you brake to about half the speed you
    would  go  without  braking. Adding a trailer just makes that case
    even  worse.  So  the  time you need a drum brake most is towing a
    trailer down a hill at a reasonable speed.

    I wouldn't  consider taking a tandem on steep hills with a trailer
    and without a drum. We almost never go above 30, so I may be using
    my brakes a good bit more than you do.

--David

    Last year, we had a Cdale trailer hooked up on a borrowed Mel Pinto
    tandem.  We rode a 50 mile loop that included going through Harvard,
    MA.  I estimated the extra weight was 120 lbs.  Although we had a drum
    brake, it wasn't connected and there is no interference with the Cdale
    as long as you have enough seat post and no rack.
    
    Our Marinoni tandem has no drum brakes and we've exceeded 50 mph on
    hills (going down, of course).  If I either don't know the road or know
    that I will need to slow down, I will start applying the brakes way in
    advance, alternating between front and back so the rims do not
    overheat.  I also do not overapply pressure on the brakes.
    
    Eric

Does anyone have any experience with the "Adams Trail-A-Bike"?
This is essentially half a bike that hooks to the seat post of
the whole bike.  It turns your bike into a tandem so that you
can take your 6-10 year old kid on a bike ride with you.

Thanks,
Larry Cohen

Re:                     <<< Note 1431.47 by SMURF::LARRY >>>
                           -< Adams Trail-A-Bike ? >-

>> Does anyone have any experience with the "Adams Trail-A-Bike"?
>> This is essentially half a bike that hooks to the seat post of
>> the whole bike.  It turns your bike into a tandem so that you
>> can take your 6-10 year old kid on a bike ride with you.

  My boy (7 yrs. old) and I have enjoyed our's for about 2 years.  I have it
attached to my mountain bike so we've done lots of off-road stuff, including 
single track.  Every once in awhile, we'll even ride on road and paved trails.  
The only complaint I have with it is that the chain pops off the front sproket 
farily easily.  Otherwise, the setup has been great for both of us.  I can 
feel my boy helping when we are climbing hills, although he doesn't supply 
much power after about 12MPH.

  There are 2 types that come in 2 flavors.  There is a single seat and
dual seat (Yep you can turn your bike into a tridem for the true family
outing).  Both types come in an all steel version or you can get them in
CromeMoly.  The bikes come with a 3 speed rear end, so the kids get to enjoy 
shifting.  They also do not have brakes so you provide the stopping power.
I think we paid ~$450 for the single seat CrMo.

  For me it really beats dragging a trailer around!

Paul

    A friend recently picked up the new BoB Yak trailer. This is a 
    single wheel trailer (16" wheel) which has a pretty unique quick
    release/mounting system. Comes with a funky skewer with bearings
    on the outside for the trailer to pivot up and down on. Heavy
    duty swivel. The frame is CroMo and the entire trailer weighs 
    12.5 pounds! 
    
    This is a CARGO only trailer. No kids, no pets. Also comes with
    a large cargo bag (called the Yak Pak) with a carry strap which 
    fits in the bed of the trailer. I just bought the special skewer
    so I can borrow his trailer until I make up my mind if I want one.
    Should be great for camping and hauling a folding kayak.
    
    ~Richard  

    
     
    The replies for trailers (that carry kids) seem to be somewhat dated. My
    note describes my recent shopping experience... 
     
    
    I was in the market for a trailer to tow our 22 month old daughter. I
    checked the prices in a couple of catalogs I get (Nashbar and Providence
    Cycle). Can you say sticker shock??? Ouch...The cheaper units seem to weigh
    a bit much (29+ lbs) and lacked some of the features I wanted.
    
    I went to a couple of local shops (MA) and called a few too. I quickly
    found out that prices on the popular brands (Burley, Cannondale, Rhode
    Gear) are very close to full retail at most shops :^(  Let's just say, I
    *don't* do retail...(Spring probably isn't the best time to buy either.)
    
    I wanted a folding unit (to pack into car), front facing, and lightweight.
    I also wanted a swivel type hitch, that allows the trailer to stay upright
    when the bike goes down. Room for two kids (thinking ahead?), and extra
    gear (2 gallons of water and a case of Powerbars for Dad :^) My final two
    choices were the Burley D'lite ($375 retail), and the Rhode Gear Chariot
    ($300 retail). Rhode Gear also has a Deluxe version which has alloy wheels
    (more like the Burley D'lite) but neither store I went to carried the
    Deluxe model. I'd guess it is probably priced too close to the Burley
    with similar features to bother stocking them both. Burley also has a
    couple cheaper units (under $300).
    
    I really didn't want to spend over $300, and almost bought the Rhode Gear
    for $299. It is *very* similar to the Burley. The $375 tag on the Burley 
    was a bit much to swallow. If I could get the price down a bit on the
    Burley, I'd buy it. I decided on the Burley D'lite for a few reasons.
    It was the lightest (19 lbs. vs. about 24 for the R.G.), has quick release 
    alloy wheels (vs. poly), the frame goes outside the wheels, somewhat
    protecting them (but makes the folded footprint larger than the R.G.),
    and a roomy trunk (for all that water!!!) Burley also has a great rep for
    quality/resale value. (Not meant as a negative towards Rhode Gear, as I've
    been happy with past purchases from them.)  
    
    I was pleasantly surprised to find that O'Neils (Worcester) gave me a
    price of $337 on the Burley over the phone. My local bike shop (Milford
    Bicycle) was willing to match the price (regular $375) and knock a few
    bucks off a kids helmet too.
    
    Now that I've towed it around for 30 miles or so, let me just say I'm
    sorry I waited so long to buy it. We love it!!! Our daughter, Sarah, (26
    lbs.) enjoys riding in her "buggy" (as she calls it) waving to strangers
    like a queen in her carriage. I hardly feel it behind me on flat ground
    and my mountain bike gearing makes climbing as easy as its going to get.
    (Sarah's only going to get bigger). As mentioned in previous postings,
    avoiding large bumps and potholes can be rather tricky. Now that I'm towing
    a trailer, my wife finds it a bit easier to keep up with me too, so we ride
    together more often. Setup and tear down (when loading in my Pathfinder)
    is pretty easy too.
    
    I have a new set of problems, riding with a trailer on busy roads in
    Massachusetts doesn't appeal to my wife or myself. We've been doing
    2-3 mile laps of our neighborhood but that's getting old. I am in search
    of places with wide paved bike trails (or wide/smooth/hardpack) for
    day trips or possible vacations in MA,NH,RI (anywhere in New England).
    The closer the better for day trips. I've heard there are many good
    bike trails on Cape Cod but when I think the Cape and summer, I think
    crowded. I'm not sure if the trailer presents a problem on most bike
    trails (extra width). I'm sure there must be maps/books available, any
    suggestions?  Any existing notes topics?
    
    Thanks,
    Charlie
    
    

    You can probably count the dedicated paved bike trails that actually
    go somewhere in New England on one hand (the Cape's, Minuteman,
    Amherst).  Some of the state parks (Chicopee, Blue Hills, Myles
    Standish,...) also have paved trails.  If you *do* have to go on a
    road, look for routes with very wide breakdown lanes... such as 
    around the Wachusetts Resevoir (140/12/62/70). .02 Kratz 

    We also just recently purchased the Burley d'lite.  After looking at
    all the Burley models, the two Rhode Gears and one of the Cannondales,
    we felt it was the best choice for us.  After checking out many bike
    shops, we purchased ours at Bicycle Alley in Worcester.  They had all
    the Burley models set up on display and also the Rhode Gears.  We
    purchased ours with the added all weather cover, which comes standard
    on the Rhode Gear.  The trailer, cover, and a helmet for the baby cost
    $400.  Ouch!  
    
    The owner of the store told us he sold one to a guy who was going
    biking in Switzerland.  He bought the d'lite to tow his child and his
    gear.  After his biking adventure he sold the thing over there for over
    $700.  I know they have a great resale value here and that it's
    virtually impossible to find a used one, but I guess they are even more
    in demand in Europe.
    
    We started out with 3 mile jaunts around quiet neighborhood streets,
    just to get the feel of the trailer and to see how our 9 month old would 
    adjust to this new riding environment.  She pretty much zones out in there
    with her little helmet on and falls asleep.  Now we are attempting
    longer rides, but I am very choosy about where we ride as I really want
    to avoid high traffic streets.  
    
    I find that I get out of hand when my husband and I venture onto the
    main roads.  I am very safety conscious and I feel that my
    husband is a pretty reckless cyclist.  I just this past year got him to
    wear a helmet.  He refuses to install the rearview mirror I bought him
    and gets very frustrated with my constant calls of when cars are coming
    up behind us.  When it was just the two of us riding, I could bite my
    tongue most of the time and we enjoyed our rides or I would ride in
    front of him so I couldn't see what he was doing.  Now that
    he's towing precious cargo though, I find that I can't help myself.
    
    I guess the best solution would be for me to tow Katie, but I need to
    build up more stamina before attempting the reservoir route with her
    behind me.  In the meantime, I don't think my husband will change. 
    Last weekend he was talking about taking the baby's helmet off!~ NOT!
    
    So I think we'll be doing most of our summer riding on some backroads
    in Rhode Island and on bike paths.  The problem with the bike paths
    though, is that they can be more dangerous than the main roads
    especially if you're riding on the weekends.  So I think we'll be
    taking some nice weekdays off to do the Cape Cod Canal and the East Bay
    bike path in Rhode Island.  They're not as hilly as the reservoir loop
    either!
    
    Kristen von Campe
                                 

    
    
    re: last  >>>I am very safety conscious and I feel that my husband is
              >>> a pretty reckless cyclist. 
    
    Kristen,
    
    Sounds too familiar :^)...Although I have worn my helmet for several years,
    and recently added a mirror, my wife probably considers me reckless in
    comparison to herself...I take it "easy" when pulling the trailer, but
    still go too fast, etc. etc. for her liking. She's always yelling when
    cars are approaching too :^), it doesn't bother me...BTW, removing the
    babies helmet is not an option with me/us!!!
    
    
    >>>After checking out many bike shops, we purchased ours at Bicycle Alley
    >>>in Worcester.........The owner of the store told us he sold one....
    
    Was his name Dave? I believe the owner of my local shop (Milford
    Bicycle), bought a shop in Worcester, I thought it was Bicycle Alley.
    Nice guy...
    
    >>> I know they have a great resale value here and that it's virtually
    >>> impossible to find a used one 
    
    If saw a five year old (non-folding) Burley (Exc Condition) for sale
    for $250 and the guy wouldn't budge. I really wanted the folding unit
    and could have bought a new (non-folding) for about the same $ so I 
    passed.
    
    >>> So I think we'll be doing most of our summer riding on some backroads
    >>> in Rhode Island and on bike paths.  The problem with the bike paths
    >>> though, is that they can be more dangerous than the main roads
    >>> especially if you're riding on the weekends.  So I think we'll be
    >>> taking some nice weekdays off to do the Cape Cod Canal and the East
    >>> Bay bike path in Rhode Island. 
    
    Yeah, we'll probably try to avoid these popular places on weekends too..
    
    Could I get you (or anyone) to enter a brief description of the East Bay
    bike path, (length, beginning/ending points) and a good place to park the
    car and get on it. The closer to MA the better. Similar info for the
    Cape Cod Canal path would also be appreciated.
    
    Happy Trailering!!!
    Charlie
    

    
    Directions how to get there would be appreciated!!! Sounds like a nice
    ride. How wide is the path?
    
    /Charlie

RE: <<< Note 1431.55 by OOU812::LEIBRANDT >>>
    
>    Directions how to get there would be appreciated!!!

Sorry! If you have a Rhode Island state map, you'll find a railroad line along
the east side of upper Narragansett Bay. It passes through Barrington RI,
that's the only town I recall. I can't remember the roadway which goes along
the upper part of it, but it's something like 134 or 114.

The path is perhaps eight feet wide -- typical for the modern bike paths I've
been on, like the Cape Cod Rail Trail or the Minuteman Bikeway.
						-- Tom

    I usually start the bike path on the Bristol end, but if you're coming
    in from the north, you'll probably want to start from the East
    Providence end.  To get to the  East Providence parking lot (which is
    actually about 1/2 mile from the end of the bike path), take 95 south
    to 195 east.  Take exit 4 (Riverside).  Bear right off the exit onto
    Rte 103.  Follow this road up a hill and you will see a parking area. 
    If this area is full by some chance, there is another small parking area
    about 1/4 mile further on the right.
    
    The bike path is about 14 miles long and runs from East Providence
    through Barrington, Warren and then into Bristol.  I find a nice,
    scenic detour from the route is Colt State Park in Bristol.  This park has 
    nice wide sidwalks, quiet roadways, pretty bridges and little beaches. 
    It is accessible from the bike path.
    
    Kristen

                                     
    Thank you all...It sounds great. I'll plan a weekday trip!!!
    
    /Charlie

The last few would be of more use to future noters if moved
to a more appropriate topic...

Last Memorial Day '94  I took my family to the East Bay Bike Path.
My wife & 7 yr old son on their own bikes & myself pulling my 4.5
yr old daughter in our "vintage" rear facing cannondale trailer.

The path was quiet enjoyable with the trailer.  Plenty wide enough.
There are numerous cross roads.  The path is pretty 'straight' but as
you come to a crossing the path kind of S's up to the stop.

We rode from the Providence end eastward.  We pack a picnic lunch. 
Rode ten mile out the the State Park (Bristol)  Enjoyed our lunch & 
came back the ten miles.  The path has a slight rise heading East, so 
it was a (very) gradual "decent" on the way back.

Only minor stuff:  1 guy riding (on aerobar) crabbing about kids on the 
path.  He seemed out of place.  And kids (teens) "out horsing around" ,
passing on the grass.

I, basically, followed the direction given earlier, 195 to Riverside (?)
but ended up passing a few parking area and parking on the street.  In 
front of a bike shop actually.

Bottom line, I would recommend this path.  Even on Memorial day it was
not too crouded.  But that was last year.


Tim Brightman    Franklin, Mass   

(PS: I also, recommend the Milford bike shop.  Ask for Joe. 
 Tell'em I sent ya!  :-)

                                                  
     We had a good time on the East Bay Bike Bike Path on Sunday afternoon.
    Fairly crowded until about 5:00, then it was empty. Biggest problem was
    oncoming Rollerbladers hogging the path (2 abreast at times). Let's just
    say they moved if they had to ;^).
     
     We got a late start so we started in Barrington, went to Colt State Park
    (Bristol) for a picnic lunch. It was cloudy and a bit cool by 3pm (with a
    stiff ocean breeze.) Rode around Colt a bit, went to the end of the path
    (Independence Park) and headed back, past our vehicle (commuter parking
    off Rt.114) for a few miles and turned back, called it a day at 7pm.
    Total ride, about 16 miles. The toddler slept during most of it! What a
    life...BTW, as suspected, we saw several other trailers (some carrying
    cargo only, like coolers and portable gas grills). 
    
     Looking forward to a return trip, and a longer day of riding already.
    
     Thanks To All,
       Charlie

We just got a Rhode Gear Chariot this past weekend, $299 at Gear Works in
Leominster (this is a new, upscale store, just opened this spring in the 
shopping center at Rt 12 and 2). We have been thinking about a trailer ever
since my son, now almost 5, was born, but could never bring ourselves to spend
the bucks (as my wife would say, that's a *car* payment!). But we finally broke
down now that we have a 16-month old daughter. The alternative was a kiddie
seat on each of our bikes, but my wife was not very confident about the high,
added weight, and she is not a strong rider. We looked at a Huffy trailer at
BJ's for $160, but then decided the extra cost was worth it, since the Huffy
was very bulky and was a hard plastic shell instead of the sling seat, and
generally did not appear to be as good quality (natch, for half the cost!). It
probably would have been adequate, but a pain to handle.

The trailer is great! While my wife played softball Saturday, I took both kids
for a couple of ~45 minute rides. I immediately found the granny ring and was
able to navigate the hills. I probably wasn't doing 5 mph, but I was staying
upright and steady and survived to the top. This is not riding for speed, it is
riding for sheer pleasure. If you are trying to get somewhere, you just have to
plan for slow travel, but you'll make it.

The ride was very smooth, as others noted, you barely notice the trailer except
on the hills. The kids spent most of the time giggling in the back, although my
daughter did start to get fussy after a while, especially after a few rough
spots in the road. For the second ride I put my son on the shoulder side, so
that if I got too close to the road edge he would get most of the bumps, not
her. And the big knobby tires on the mountain bike mean I just head straight
into potholes! Unless they're wider than the trailer...

I really like the feeling of being able to take both kids by myself when my
wife is working late or can't/doesn't want to ride. I get to go for a ride and
spend time with the kids while doing my baby duty.

The trailer folds/unfolds easily and appears to have very good safety straps
and pins. It uses a lever-cammed clamp to attach to the chainstay, on a ball
joint so you can lay the bike down. Overall, very easy to use and feels good
and secure.

I would also like to add a request for good places to go in eastern Mass. I
don't think we should move such discussion somewhere else, since riding with a
trailer requires extra consideration. I was riding on far Rt 2A, at the
Fitchburg/Westminster line, then off on some back road that goes by a
reservoir. The 2A traffic was very light after the Rt 31 cutoff, and there is
an excellent shoulder, smooth and wide with a white line. The back road was
also lightly traveled, but no shoulder, so I was thankful for the flag on the
trailer; all the cars gave us plenty of room (I imagine the obvious picture of
dad-out-with-the-kids makes drivers a little more tolerant). We will be on the
Cape in two weeks, and I also plan to check out some of the Littleton/Concord
area.

    Re: Previous - I am also interested in routes that
    would be good for a trailer.  Suggestions???
    
    Nancy

    In north/central MA, a nice loop would be to start at the Lancaster
    Town Hall, or Lancaster Middle School.  Go south on Rt 70 through 
    So. Lancaster, up Sterling Rd. Bear right at fork, go to Rt 62.  Take
    62 into Sterling.  From Sterling, go 12 North almost to 190, then right
    (forgot name of road) back to 62.  Mandatory stop at ice cream stand.
    Go 62 for about 1 mile further, left on Deershorn which takes you back 
    to Sterling Road.  Left on 70 back to start.  Probably 15 miles.
    1 mild/moderate hill.  
    
    steve
    
     

    I was in a bike shop the other day and I saw a tandom bike add on for
    kids who get to big for a trailer. It hooks up to the seat post and 
    has a seet and pedals for kids.  As my son wants to take the dog along
    on trip (only a puppy? 50 lb) I thought we should make him pedel now.
    Has anyone seen or used this device.  I would like to know how it
    handles on back roads.  Its not bad in a parking lot.
    
    Gary

    I saw these recently on Nantucket with kids pedalling from the add-on
    stoker position. Not sure how well they would work for dogs.
    

    You are adding weight (probably not much in comparison with a trailer),
    and you need not expect too much help with the work, but parents (few) I 
    have chatted to seem satisfied.  However serious tandom people claim
    the flexibility is a big lose....

    If you are just tooting around, it should be ok.  I have heard they
    are extremely snake-like feeling.  If you are serious at all, consider
    a tandem with a child stoker setup...however it is not cheap.   My
    6 year old and I can average 16mph.
    
    steve

    I wrote a small review of the trailing bike I bought (Alley Cat) in
    1102.2.   
    It is a bit snakey as suggested.
    They are becoming very popular at tourist areas from what I can tell.
    Up at Bar Harbor every shop was renting them.
    They are orders of magnitude cheaper than a tandem setup.  The Alley
    Cat can be purchased for about $160.
    I'm not sure how the tandem setups for kids work but the trailing
    bikes allow the kid to freewheel ... so they only pedal when they
    want to.  I also think its easier to transport this setup than a
    tandem.  Clearly nothing beats a good tandem for performance though.
    A very cheap tandem costs about $1000 add to that the cost of a kiddy
    adaptor ($150?).   
    
    I dont think I could take my kid out on a 50 mile ride with the trailing
    bike ...  But she loves it and provides me with the opportunity to
    share my passion for cycling with her.
    
    -Larry 
    

    Borrowing a friend's Burley D'lite, we gave our 7 month old princess a
    ride to sleepy land.  She normally resists daytime naps and makes life
    interesting for my wife.  This trailer managed to knock our daughter out
    within 5 minutes and she stayed that way for an hour.  Not a peep out
    of her, even on some bouncy, dirt trails.  
    
    I visited a local bike shop and picked up our trailer today.  It now gives 
    us the freedom to ride together as a family.  Raise that trailer flag
    and ride !