Conference noted::bicycle

    I use the CATEYE Micro (I think that's what it's capped).  It goes for
    ~$40 in the U.S.  No complaints so far except breaking the cable once
    but you can buy a replacement and not the whole computer set ($20). 
    My friend has a Paramount but he has a lot of problem with it in the
    rain (this seems to be a prevailing problem).
    
    Whatever you do, I strongly suggest that you get one with a cadence
    read-out.  It is the most important function available if you are doing
    any serious training.  Plus the incremental cost is not significant
    over the basic computer.
    
    Eric

    
    I just picked up the Cateye ATC model CC-8000. It is especially made 
    for MTBs. What that means basically is it is more heavey duty and
    has a stronger cable so can take more abuse. It has a stronger memory
    (more storage cabalities). I just used mine this last weekend and
    already love it.  BTW because its made for MTBs doesn't mean that you
    cannot put it on a road bike, it is just more heavy duty. You will
    ofcourse need to reset the wheel diameter. (it comes set for 2030) 
    which is the Mountain bike wheel. 
    Price was $89.95 I picked it up for $76.00
    
    Shaw

    
      I've been running the Avocet 20 for 3 years now.  Had to replace the
    mount once after a year, it cost about 6 bucks to replace.  The model
    20 Gives Speed,Trip Odometer,Odometer and a stop watch.  I used to have
    a cateye that had all the other stuff and it was "cute" but of no real
    use to me.
    
      I think that Avocet stopped making the model 20 and now makes the
    model 30 with the same functions.  Its the smallest, lightest and most
    simple Computer on the market.
    
      But if you do want gadgets the new model 50 has an Altimiter and will
    measure things like total distance climbed and other such absolutely
    indispensible information.
    
    John C.
    

Father Christmas brought me a Huret Multitronic 2.  It does Instantaneous speed,
Trip and Elapsed time on 1 display 'set'.  Pessing the button (or stopping for
more than 8 sec gives you Total mileage, Avg Speed and Max Speed (on trip).

1. It fits on the fork and doesn't clutter up the bars  (BIG PLUS!!)
2. You can pull it out easily and take it in the cafe with you.
3. You can buy extra fitting kits and click it into your other bike(s).
4. It's simple (EXTRA BIG PLUS!!)
5. It MAY not be Japanese.

I disagree on the last note re cadence and the more you look at these things,
the more you stand a chance of hitting something.  I know I have been biking a
long time but I reckon most people should know cadence and speed by feel alone.
I used to be able to get my time for a "25" to the nearest minute without a
watch, but I should add it was on 84 fixed and flat roads!!

PS I didn't ask F C the price......

    A purported advantage of the Avocet is that it does not use little
    reed switches and so suffers from no contact bounce or incorrect
    readings during fast descents.  I have a Cateye micro and it screws
    up under such conditions.  Also rain is a problem - if you cover
    it with plastic that helps.  The problem seems to be the electrical
    contacts on on the handlebar mount, since drying them makes it work
    again.  The Avocet uses magnets & pickup coils and measures the voltage
    generated with an A-D converter, so it can have a problem with very slow
    speeds.  I don't know what it does in the rain, or if the newer
    wireless odos are free of this problem.

    I found the cadence not to be very useful once my curiosity was
    satisfied, and in fact removed the sensor when I had to replace crankset
    and lost the magnet on them.

    A much more useful training aid is a pulse rate monitor.  Recently
    I've seen ads for a power meter, but it looks expensive.  One nice
    thing is that your pulse rate is very closely correlated to power
    output, so for training the pulse monitor is a much more cost effective
    way to go.  For optimizing time trials, the important thing is
    to keep constant power output it seems, and the pulse monitor
    can give the useful feedback you need.

    I think I'll pass that power meter thing on by, but a pulse monitor
    seems worthwhile.

    - Jim

    I've used  a Cateye Solar for 6 years now, and it still works, but
    keeping  the batteries charged is a pain. We put a Cateye Micro on
    our tandem, and it seems to work well. I'm putting an Avocet model
    50  (with  altimeter  and cadence) on my new bike because the shop
    had one around and it seemed neat.

    I find  that  once  I  got  my cadence steady, which took a little
    while,  I  stopped  looking  at  the cadence display. Every year I
    check  it  a bit at the beginning of the year, get up to my normal
    cadence  and  ignore  it  the rest of the year. It really is worth
    checking  your cadence occasionally and getting it up early in the
    year. I 'm putting the cadence readout on my new bike because it's
    my  first recumbent, and the different position might make it hard
    for me to find my normal cadence quickly.

--David

If you're main interest is in riding, and you want to know how far you've gone, 
you don't need cadence.  However, if you're just learning to ride, or trying to 
get in shape, or trying to greatly improve your performance, then all the data 
you can get will help.  Thus I'd recommend a computer with cadence.  Once you've 
learned to pedal at your desired cadence, you will find that you will use the 
cadence feature less.  (Let's not forgot that there are some newcomers to this
sport/notesfile.)

I use the Cateye Micro (w/ cadence) and am relatively pleased with it.  It's
relatively inexpensive ($40) and dependable, though it seems like the mounts 
need to be replaced every year or so due to contact wear causing the computer to
cut out from time-to-time.  

If I was buying a new one, I'd get the Avocet 50 w/ altimeter, since I'm a data-
holic and live and ride in hilly New England.

Kevin

    
    Another vote for the Cateye Micro (the Vectra is the model without
    the cadence, by the way).  It is reasonably rugged, reasonably
    waterproof (subject to temporary outage already mentioned in heavy
    rain), and very cost effective.  Performance has them for $32.
    Also, easy to read.
    
    Robin, what is the mileage limit on the Huret?  I think it stops
    displaying tenths or something after a certain point.
    
    Avocet seems to be slightly more accurate or something at cruise
    speed (in terms of speed, not mileage).
    
    Anyway, the Cateye seems a good, cost effective choice.  I've run
    one for 5 years.
    
    -john

    I have an Avocet model 20 which I bought in 1986, and it's
    still going strong.

    Subsequently, I bought a Cateye micro because I wanted
    cadence.  The micro has since lost its mind, and there
    seems to be no way to get it repaired ( the instructions
    only list an address in Japan).

    At least the Avocet has a US point of service.

I personally like the Cateyes. I have a Mate on my road bike, which has been on
there for over 8 years without any problem. I have a Vectra on my ATB, which
has three years without problems. Ann has a Solar on her bike which has only
shown the traditional battery charging problems. 

My main dislike of the Avocets stems from two grounds. hen they were first
introduced, the date for their issue kept getting pushed back. Yes, I know this
is now historical, but I wasn't impressed that they couldn't more reasonably
fulfill the demand they had created. Also, all the Avocet models seem to have a
maximum one hour elapsed time. I'd be interested to know if this is still the
case. I would find it a real pain after spending a day in the saddle to have to
work out how many hours I had done from a clock.

However, to balance this, I have a good respect for the Avocets and they do
seem to be reasonably reliable. They are small and light. And they come in neat
colours.

I would stay away from any other offerings myself. In my opinion, Cateye and
Avocet really own the marketplace.

Visit a couple of cycle shops and try out the goods on offer. See what you
like. Look at the display and think about how you would react to trying to get
the information you want while riding in traffic. A friend tried out the Cateye
ATB model and told me that the display was too confusing because there were so
many options! Remember that you will often be using it in busy circumstances.

Above all, make sure that YOU like the model you buy.

Cheers,
Tim

    I'll vote for the Cateye's reliability as well. I've owned a few Micros
    and one solar and never had a breakdown (I leave 'em on the bike when
    I get rid of them). I've even used a model (name escapes me) on my ATB
    without any problems).
    
    I have their wireless model on my road bike now. I'm not all that
    impressed with it. It cuts down at times (mph) and is irratic. I
    don't know if it's due to my brakes (DELTA's - can't get a clean
    line from the transponder to the antenna because of the size of the
    brake case)... or what. I really like the wireless set-up. I know
    othwer folks who have them and don't have any problems.
    
    I will be buying a new one this year for my new bike (soon to be
    completed - I hope) but I'm gonna shop around a little bit...
    
     Chip

    What computer would people recommend for a Cannodale with the 
    big "tubes"...

    re: .11
    
    Hey Chip,
    
    If you go wireless, don't ride in the Needam area.  With those towers
    in the area will make you think you're going 150 mph.  I've heard that
    this is one of the biggest problem.
    
    Eric

    Anybody get their Avocet 50 yet?  I ordered it back a few months and
    the manufacturer keeps on pushing the delivery date back.  Last date
    was 12/31/90.  At least I got the order in when it was $69... it seems
    to have jumped up to circa $89 now.

    My avocet  50  is  in  a box waiting for the bike to come in. I've
    seen  the  units in a couple of stores in the Boston area (Belmont
    Wheel  works  and Lincoln Guide Service). They're selling them for
    around $70. If you look in the Performance or Nashbar catalog, the
    description  gives  a  price of $90, but the table of info gives a
    price  of  $70. Both Performance and Nashbar did this, and I don't
    know what price they would charge if you ordered one.

--David

    Thanks for all the replies - what a great notesfile this is!
    Looks like Cateye will get my money....
    
    Chris

    FWIW, I have been using a Advocet 30, and it's just fine for the basic
    functions.  I've used it in the rain with no problems.  I just
    purchased a model 50 so I could have cadence and average speed
    functions.  I live in Florida, and thus consider the altimeter function
    next to useless...
    
    re: the 50's availability, A few of the shops around here now have the
    50's in stock.  One had it for $69.00 and when I saw in both Nashbar
    and Performance for $89.00, I ran over and grabbed one.  I was in
    California earlier this week, and several shops there have the 50's as
    well.  No one seems to have the cadence sensor though.
    
    re: fat tubes, Advocet's speed sensor ought to work fine on fat tubes,
    the standard pickup mounts on the front dropout.  There is an optional
    rear mounting kit (which I prefer), the sensor mounts on the stay, near
    the dropout.  It is shaped for small tubes, but it would be no problem
    to enlarge the radius for larger tubing.  Alas, I can't comment on the
    cadence sensor.
    
    Barry

     Gee Eric, you mean I haven't been averaging 125mph??? Man, what
    a let down. :-) I knew the UFO's were causing interference, but
    never put a lot of thought into power lines...
    
     Chip

re ,8

John, you are quite correct, the Multitronic 2 does change precision..

English:
	Trip records up to 999 miles
	Up to 199,9 miles it displays 1/10ths, after that whole numbers
French:
	Replace "miles" by "km"

	I find this ideal, I really only measure to the nearest km, and 999 km 
is too much for 1 day anyway, but I realise real mile-eaters like yourself
could find it annoying.  My usual reaction to max speed and average is "Oh,
how very fascinating   yawn,yawn....."  An interesting side-issue is that 
most of us oldies need glasses to read the computers on the bars, in fact one 
of my friends has to stop - get out his glasses, read the display, put the 
glasses away again and then ride off each time.  Having the display down on
the forks put it back to one's "near point".

    got the 50 the other day... haven't tried it on the bike yet, but it
    seems to be pretty good at forecasting snow storms.

    What, is height marked as Set Fair, Changeable, Stormy and so on?
    More seriously, I take it that there's a facility to set your current
    exact height, like aeroplane pilots who have to zero the altimeter
    before take-off?
    
    
    Rod

    Supposedly it is calibrated at the factory, but there is a provision to
    adjust it to local conditions.  As indeed you must, mine, still at its
    factory setting, indicates an altitude of -120 feet.  Florida is low,
    but not quite that low!  I bought it because of the other features, and
    because the mount is compatable with my Advocet 30, so I can switch
    them between bikes.
    
    Barry

	Yes indeed, you'll have to adjust it daily, and maybe several times
	throughout a day depending on the weather if you want to keep it 
	accurate.  Every inch of barometric pressure change will change the
	reading by about 1000 feet.  It's best if you know the true 	
	altitude of places you normally ride from so you can set it.

	chris

         On a given day, your Avocet altimeter should tell you the same 
    total amount of climbing whether you approximate actual altitude 
    (current altimeter setting) or pressure altitude (set at standard, 
    29.92 inches).  Unless you're flying your bicycle on instruments, it 
    shouldn't make much difference.

    
    ...unless a cold front comes through while your climbing an Alp!  :-)
                       +----pressure differential
    
    -john

    ...So we'll wait for the Avocet 70 which will link into the US
    satellite Global Positioning System to give a reading of your current 
    altitude and speed anywhere in the world. The Avocet 90 will combine
    that with a digitally-stored map to tell you how far to the next
    patisserie.
    
    
    Rod

>    ...So we'll wait for the Avocet 70 which will link into the US
>    satellite Global Positioning System to give a reading of your current 
>    altitude and speed anywhere in the world. The Avocet 90 will combine

One suspects that there should be a programmable uplink, so that if your
average speed drops below a certain preset level (Ooops, he's dropped 
below 2 MPH climbing Frojit Mountain!) it would call up your spouse to 
send out a rescue vehicle, spare tire, ice cream, whatever :-)...
                                   ken

    I've had a Cateye Micro for about six months and it hasn't failed me
    yet.  It installs simply, the wires strung so neatly I forget they're
    there.  The cadence option has become a must-have -- and the price is
    right ($29.99 here in Los Angeles).  Accept no imitations (ie: Sears
    sells a cycling computer for $15.99.)  I bought one, thinking "what's
    the difference".  What a joke!  Got my $$$ back and got the Cateye.
    
    LArry

    does anyone have any experience or knowledge regarding the Paramount
    computers.  There are apparently two models, a 10 and an 8.  The 8
    supposedly can tell when you are moving and starts and stops the stop
    watch and trip functions automatically.

    
    re:-1  
    Cateye ATC CC-8000 has the automatic start/stop option aswell.

    How about Vetta computer? Their line is basically the same as Cateye.
    Any experience or comments?
    
    Thanks
    John

    	I've used the Vetta, but have found them to be unreliable.  Within
    1 1/2 years i had gone thru two of them.  A feature which I did like
    which my present Cateye does not have is the auto start / stop.
    

>    	I've used the Vetta, but have found them to be unreliable.  Within
>    1 1/2 years i had gone thru two of them.  A feature which I did like
>    which my present Cateye does not have is the auto start / stop.
    
        I've used  an old model from Performance which, when I bought it,
        was identical in  display,  function, and button configuration to
        what  Vetta was selling  ---  either  Vetta  was  making  it  for
        Performance,  or they were both buying it  from  the  same  third
        party.
        
        The reliability of the unit has degraded with age ---  it  is now
        four  years old, I would say.  About two years ago  I  discovered
        that  it  does  not  tolerate  being  _dropped_  at  all,  as the
        elastomer  interface    between  the  LCD  and  the  PCB  becomes
        misaligned.  Originally  it  was  somewhat tolerant of water, but
        now it's a real _wimp_ --- the batteries tend to short out, an in
        one  instance I discovered that  an  etch  had  "opened"  due  to
        corrosion. A simple soldered jumper fixed that problem.
        
        By making my own repairs I have extended  this  thing's  life  at
        least two years beyond the point at which I  was tempted to throw
        it out.  My next model will probably be a  physically small unit,
        either an older model Avocet or small Cateye.  My old Performance
        gives me current speed,  stopwatch,  clock,  distance travel, and
        max speed;  except for the  max  speed,  this amounts to all I am
        interested in functionally.
        
        QUESTION:    From experience, _durability_ and _water_resistance_
        are major  issues  with  me.    How  are _RUGGED_ are Avocets and
        Cateyes?

    I'm still  using  my cateye solar which is around 6 years old now.
    It  was never great at water resistance, but it doesn't seem to be
    any  worse  now  than  it used to be. I've dropped it a handful of
    times,  and  it's still working fine. I just bought a Cateye Micro
    for  our  tandem, and haven't had any problems, but we haven't put
    much mileage on it either.

    I'm satisfied with Cateye's longevity, and would buy another.

    (The solar  cells  that aren't strong enough to charge the battery
    is a known problem that I won't discuss any longer.)

--David

    Gee, Dave, I've got about 8 Cateye-Solar carcasses sitting around
    if you ever get to the point of needing spare parts.  SOmething must
    be salvageable.
    
    ed

    
      My Avocet 20 is 3 years old and still going strong.  The only thing I
    had to replace was the base unit,  It saw so much wet riding that it
    finally corroded beyond repair.  I get about a year out of a battery
    and I still use it all the time.
    
    John C.
    

My Avocet model 20 is still working fone after 3 years.  It's been dropped, 
frozen, and rained on repeatedly but after my mistreatment I've not had any
problems with it.

Mark

    My old 20 had to have the battery and pickup contacts bent or filed down
    to clean off the oxidization every once in a while, and got wet several
    times, but still works.  It's out of commission now only having been
    replaced by a 50, which incidentally does have the pause-while-stopped
    feature for both avg speed and accumulated altitude gain/loss.  _Kratz
    

    I just installed a Ciclomaster IIa computer on my Merlin.  Although
    it's too early for test results, here are a few reasons why I bought it:
    
    - Has Start/Stop feature with a 5 second delay.
    - Easy to mount.  The sensor is incorporates into a rubber
      "mini-watchband" that attaches around your fork/stay.
    - Waterproof
    - You can buy add-ons like cadence, altimeter, heart rate monitor and
      it will all read on the same screen.
    - The cover can be replaced (multi-colors)
    - Unlike the Micro, you don't need to attach the speed monitor to the
      rear wheel if you want cadence (separate wires).
    - It's made in Germany ;-)
    Prices
    
    Ciclomaster IIa: $ 60.00 (many models that range from $30 to $120)
    Cadence:           10.00
    Altimeter:         60.00
    HR Monitor:       150.00

I just put an Avocet 50 on my MTB, and a Cateye Micro on my son's MTB.
Although the Avocet cost about twice as much as the Cateye ($79.95 for
the Avocet, $44.95 for the Cateye), I preferred the Cateye.  The Avocet
price is the going rate even from mail-order (in spite of advertised
prices that are lower, a phone call will confirm that the price is
as much as $89.95 from most of them).  The Cateye price is quite a
bit lower by mail order (typically, about $29.95), but I like to
encourage my local bicycle shop ...

Both computers offer current speed, average speed for trip, maximum
speed, trip distance, total distance, elapsed time, and clock.  The
Avocet, of course, adds altimeter to this mix (hey, in Colorado, this
is not just incidental information!), and has an optional accessory
that will display cadence.  (This optional accessory is, as nearly as
I can tell, not available yet from Avocet -- every mail-order place I
called, and every local bike shop, said the same thing.)  The Cateye
has cadence as standard, in addition to the list of features in common
above.

Why do I prefer the Cateye?  Simply, it is made and packaged better.
The magnet mount for the Cateye is like a miniature version of the
reflectors that mount on the spokes of your wheel -- put it anywhere
that it will fit (where two spokes are coming together), and screw it
on.  The Avocet is a ring with three clips, which fits only 36-spoke
wheels; instructions tell you to cut off those clips (which I would not
trust to hold the thing on anyway) and use (supplied) quick-ties to
mount it.  This is a kludge, and looks it -- although it probably won't
fly off out in the boonies.

The pickup for the Cateye is in an epoxied housing, with a wrap-around
clip that screws onto your chain stay.  It can be precisely positioned
both laterally along the chain stay to precisely align with the magnet,
and for distance from the magnet (a line on the magnet and on the
pickup assure precise alignment).  The Avocet has a flimsy pickup holder
that is supposed to grip the front wheel drops, held on by a quick-tie.
This MAY work well on a road bike, but it does not on a mountain bike,
where the drops are too thick for the design.  I was able to get this
onto the bike (a Specialized RockHopper), but there is absolutely no
opportunity for adjustment.  On my bike, it works; your mileage may
vary.  The bike shop warned me that this mounting might be a problem,
and volunteered to help me kludge my way through it if necessary; as
I said, in my case it was not necessary.

The pickup for the Cateye cadence is similar to the wheel speed; the
magnet is held to the inside of the left crank with an adhesive strip
and a quick-tie.  The wires of both computers were quick-tied to the
frame.  (The wires for the Cateye were a little thicker than the
Avocet's wires, meaning either their gauge was thicker or their
insulation was thicker, or both.  The Cateye wires were also very
slightly color-coded:  light gray versus charcoal gray.)

The Cateye operates (for most functions) with two buttons on front,
labelled MODE and START/STOP -- making their operation pretty obvious,
at least after a quick reading of the manual (or familiarty with other
computers).  There is a third button behind the computer to select
cadence mode (and also involved in the "master reset" operation).

The Avocet has only the two front buttons, but they are not labelled.
Worse, the mode selector is the RIGHT button, and the START/STOP button
is the one on the left.  If this doesn't seem backwards to you, you
probably belong to the National Association of Left-Handed People.  I
am still pushing the wrong button more often than not.

I mentioned packaging:  the Avocet comes in a large plastic case, mounted
on a white plastic relief map of who-knows-what -- obviously emphasizing
the Altimeter function.  This case could easily hold three Cateyes in
their packages (which are made of cardboard slid over a styrofoam case).
Neither package is very good environmentally, but the Avocet is by far
the worse offender.  (Aside:  wouldn't you think that people who make
their living from something like bicycling would be a little more
environmentall conscious than, say, Cigarette boat manufacturers?)

In operation, the Cateye and the Avocet are equal in readability.  Both
my son (who is 10 years old) and I found the Cateye easier to operate
than the Avocet, mostly because of the unlabelled and left/right
switched buttons on the Avocet.

Quick summary:  the Cateye mounting is a better design; the Cateye is
easier to operate; the Cateye is packaged slightly better; the Cateye
materials seem slightly better; the Cateye includes a cadence feature
that is optional (and presently unavailable) on the Avocet; the Cateye
costs less; the Avocet offers an altimeter (the main reason I wanted
it).  On balance, if I buy another computer (as I will probably do for
my road bike), it will be a Cateye.

Wayne

    Nice summary Wayne. I'm glad I bought the Cateye..... :-) :-)
    
    Chris

    Yes, I own a cateye and haven't had any problems (other than the pickup
    on the rear wheel slipping out of adjustment a little).  
    
    A nice unit at a great price.

You make some very good points.  I agree with you about
the packaging.  The 30's are packaged in a simple cardboard
box, with no foam whatsoever, as I recall.  Regarding the mo
try the rear mount kit.  You still have the magnet ring
to deal with, but the chainstay mount for the pickup 
is much easier to deal with than the the front pickup.

barry

    Some Avocet questions:
    - I might buy a 30 now, and a 50 later on (after the initial field test
      ...), so: are the model 30 and 50 compatible? (can you put them on to
      the same mounting)
    - how well can they take rain etc. (I have a Cateye 3000 now which
      simply stops whenever there is too much humidity in the air; 
      it only works now without complaint when it;s sunny and dry. Yes, I
      wrap it even in plastic to protect it. No, that doesn't help much)
    - are the 50's available in different colors like the 30?
    
    					Jan Mulder
    
      even necessary rain:
      

    Yes, the 30 and the 50 take the same mounts.  I'm using my old 30 mount
    with the new 50 now.  However, the optional cadence pickup, not out
    yet, seems to be the reason for the extra pin out the bottom of the 50.
    The 50 only comes in black.  My old 30 seemed to take the rain fine,
    except that the contacts would oxidize faster, and needed to be filed
    down and/or bent to ensure good contacts... same with the battery
    contacts.  Unfortunately, fixing the battery's contacts meant resetting
    everything.  I'd like to keep the 50 out of the rain... 'course I said
    that about the racing bike when I got it too.  But the 50's manual
    does say: "Water Resistance: Waterproof".  _Kratz
    
    

    Has anyone else noticed this characteristic of the Cateye?
    I usually leave it set on AVS so I can monitor my progress on the daily
    commute. I've noticed that the reading sometimes DECREASES by .1 or .2
    after a short burst of acceleration and INCREASES by .1 or .2 if I slow
    briefly, at a junction say. The reading then settles back to what it
    was before. 
    Not really a problem but is this a feature or a bug? 
    
    Chris

    Yes, I have noticed this, the first part at least. No, I don't have
    an explanation. As you say, the reading seems to pan out correctly in
    the end.
    
    
    Rod

    I have  a cateye solar and notice that sometimes the average speed
    moves  opposite what it should. My guess is that they decided that
    it  was  important  that if you rode the same distance in the same
    amount  of  time, you should see the same average speed. With that
    decision, and rounding error problems, you will see this behaviour
    at times.

--David

    My computer (Vetta 2) needs the radius of the wheel entered in MM.
    The chart lists entries for various sizes, but not 700x20. What's
    the magic number folks?
    
    Thanks,
    John

    I recommend that you measure your wheel size.  The value will differ
    depending on your tire brand, pressure, etc.  The easiest way to
    measure is to push your bike along the floor for 1 or 2 wheel
    revolutions.  This will give you the wheel circumference.  The wheel
    diameter is circumference divided by 3.1416.  Radius is diameter
    divided by 2.
    
    Ken
    

    One thing about the Cateye micro that seems annoying...

    I don't think it will let you change the wheel radius without resetting
    the whole thing.  Or am I mistaken?

    - Jim

    I can't answer for the Cateye micro (6000?) but the Cateye vectra
    (7000) certainly does let you change wheel size on the fly, with no
    resetting necessary, even of trip mileage. On the 7000. press the mode
    button and the reset button (on the base of the unit) simultaneously.
    The wheel size comes up, flashing, and can be altered using the
    start/stop button.
    
    
    Rod

    You are mistaken.  I reset the wheel size on my micro every time I switch 
    bikes. However, if forget the sequence of buttons, you can reset the ODO 
    to 0. I reset mine to 0 at the beginning of a new year.

Does the cable for Avocet model 30 detach from the sensor or mounting bracket?
That is without cutting or soldering. I'm trying to mount a computer on a set
of Trimble Rocket Bars. I will cut and solder a mount if I have to. Is the
Avocet easier to solder it wires than the Cateye or harder?

Tom

   Re .53

   Just out of curiosity, how do you do it?

   All I can do is make it show the wheel setting by pressing mode and
   start/stop while it is in odo display, but I can't change it.  I checked
   both of the cateye's I have.  This is what the instructions say to do
   to *change* it, but it doesn't work.

   If you press all the buttons, including the useless cadence button,
   this resets and lets you change the wheel setting.

   I have on both my bikes so it was never an issue except that I noticed
   I had set it wrong when I replaced the battery this year and seemingly
   needed to do a full reset to change it.

   - Jim

Re: .54

The Avocet cable will detach from both the wheel sensor and the mounting 
bracket.  There are simple push-on connectors at the wheel sensor.  At
the mounting bracket, the contacts contain a small springlike 'latch' that holds
them in the bracket.  To remove at the mounting bracket, pull on the wire
slightly and use a small screwdriver to push down on the contact on the side
nearest the wire.  The contacts will slide out of the mounting bracket 
'channel'.  One can then solder a new wire on the contacts and reinsert 
into the mounting bracket. I had to do this after the wire conductor broke 
internally (lasted a year on the mountain bike, not bad considering the 
abuse it took)  Hope this helps...

fwiw - I am very happy with the 3 Avocets that I have owned. They appear to be
very durable, I use both the model 30 and 50 on mountain and road bikes in 
all weather conditions. I like the 'generic' bracket and the ability to 
recalibrate without a complete reset. I did have one failure (model 30 display
problem) over the past 4  years or so and Avocet sent me a completly new 
unit in a timely manner.  I have never owned a Cateye so I can't comment
on relative differences.

    Re: .39
    
    I have converted from Cateye (Vectra & Micro) to Ciclomaster IIa.
    All the advantages mentioned in .39 plus more:
    
     o Magnet mounts on ONE spoke; this is advantageous for trick
       radially spoked wheels, while the Cateye magnet is difficult
       to attatch & hold steady.
    
     o Unit is on sale at some places; paid $39.99 for mine at
       Frank's Spoke 'N Wheel in Framingham,MA. (retail $60?)
    
     o Optional Cadence Sensor part has no problem fitting Cannondale chainstays
    
     o What's good for Greg ....
    
    Mark

    re. 57:
    
    This Ciclomaster has a altitude measuring option like the Avocet 50;
    they were compared in a test reported in our local "Fiets" magazine:
    the Ciclomaster performed very badly. 
    They even got another one from the factory, but that didn't help much;
    one of the problems seems to be to mount the altitude option correctly;
    it should be perfectly horizontal on the bicycle which is of course
    difficult to do (and keep). 
    The measurement of the altitude is based on a different principle:
    Avocet 50 gives the absolute altitude (in Holland there is an
    advertisement showing a cyclist in an elevator); the Ciclomaster gives
    relative altitude, so if you start at 500 mtr. and climb to 600 it will
    give a (relative) altitude of 100. I believe the Avocet should give
    both: altitude = 600, climbed = 100. 
                  				Jan

    It does...  if the accumulated altitude change counter is cleared,
    and you start at 500', the Avocet 50 will say  500/0 in the altitude
    mode.  Climb a 100 feet, and it says  600/000.1  (accumulated altitude
    is x1000).  Descend a 100', and it's now  500/000.2.  Assuming you
    finish at the same altitude that you started, total altitude *climbed*
    should be one half of the accumulated altitude.  -kb

    Are the Avocet 30s difficult to install?  Should a "pro" at the
    bike shop do it?
    
    Thanks - Mike

    They're pretty  easy  IF  YOU  HAVE THE RIGHT HUB AND DROPOUT. The
    ring  that  mounts  on  the wheel fits one size hub. If you have a
    different  size  hub,  you  hold it on with tie wraps. It can be a
    real  nuisance to get it on in the right place with tie wraps. The
    "pro"  that  did  it on my new bike did it wrong, so the tie wraps
    hit the drop out and broke within two miles. I did it myself then,
    and  I  think  it will work. I have Phil Woods hubs, which are fit
    the Avocet  particularly badly.

    They are  also  fairly picky about what kind of dropout your frame
    has. On normal dropouts, they fit fine, but my Counterpoint uses a
    BMX  style  dropout,  and  the Avocet wouldn't fit at all. I use a
    Cateye there.

--David

    An update on the Ciclomaster  IIa.  After using it for a while, I know
    have a few quirks with it.  I found the "screen" difficult to read. 
    The contrast is not as crisp as I would like.  The mode button is also
    a pain to use (especially with winter gloves).  Then, when, you get
    used to the amount of pressure needed, you have a long loop of various
    functions to go through...  I still have it on my Merlin and although
    there can be improvements done to the screen and buttons, I'm still
    happy with it.
    
    My original plan was to put 2 of these on the tandem but I was only
    successful in putting one on the captain's side.  The cabling for the
    wheel is not long enough to reach the rear wheel so this was not going
    to work for the stoker.  I also realized that I would need a few
    cables spliced in order for the captain to get cadence since the
    spacing between the captain's crank arm and a tube (no chain stays) is
    too far apart and would have to use the stoker's crank arm.
    
    Solution:  I put a Vetta wireless for the captain and my old Cateye
    Micro for the stoker.  This is working out very nice.  The Vetta
    wireless is very nice (wide screen and easy buttons) and includes a
    clock which is a plus when you have a gazillion layers of clothes.
    I don't think that the wireless is as acurate as the Micro but is
    within reason (all computers' calibration are not 100%).  I also had
    the computer next to my HR monitor and did not notice any interference
    between the two (my heart was beating at 21 mph as ususal...)
    
    Eric
    
    BTW, I got the Vetta Wireless for $29.99 and the Ciclomaster IIa for
         $39.99.

    I can't believe I read through all these replies.  If anyone else does,
    here is one more point to consider.  A computer that senses the rear
    wheel, like the cataye micro, will work with a windtrainer while one 
    that works off the front wheel will not.  This is a pretty big deal if 
    you use a windtrainer.
        

    I've been using a windtrainer these past few months with a
    cycle-computer that senses off the front wheel and thus couldn't show
    speed. But that was fine by me. I don't want windtrainer miles recorded
    on my total, the distance is meaningless.
    
    
    Rod

	What really bugs me is that none of these computers registers all the
miles my bike covers on the top of my car...

;>)  1787 km of blood, sweat and tears since Jan 1

    
    My brother wants to buy the Avocet model 50 but is wondering if the
    altimeter sensor is rugged enough to do off-road biking. Has anybody
    succeeded in breaking/damaging the sensor on small mountain tracks ?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Ralf.

    Well, now that you ask, I knew this guy who wanted to measure the
    altitude gained by his valve stem so he attached the computer to his
    wheel.  Sure enough 50 miles or so and the stem had gained 80,000 ft
    but the computer was toast.
    
    :-)
    
    ed
    

    I've been using an Avocet 50 for a few weeks now. Executive summary:
    after some initial worries about complexity, I think it's excellent.
    Reply 40 to this note gives a rather critical review of the 50, and in
    particular criticises the unlabelled buttons, saying it's silly to put
    the start/stop button on the left. I feel this doesn't fully understand
    how the 50 operates.
    
    The fact is that only one function on the 50, timer start/stop, is
    manually actuated. All the others start when the wheel starts turning,
    and stop when the wheel stops. Each resettable function must be
    individually reset. I reset these before I go out, which is a lot of
    button-clicking, but then I can forget about them for the day, which is
    great.
    
    The right-hand button is the major mode-shift, cycling (what else)
    through four displays in large type. The left-hand button is the minor
    mode-shift button, which can toggle various items of subsidiary info
    shown in smaller type. See below...
    
    
    RH button switches        Minor display          LH button function...
    major display through...  then shows... 
    
    1.  altitude              trip climb, or         toggles minor display
                              total climb ever
    
    2.  current speed         average speed, or      toggles minor display
                              maximum speed
    
    3.  trip distance         total distance ever    no function
    
    4.  timer                 current time           timer start/stop
    
    
    The feel of the buttons is excellent: you must push hard, but then you
    get a definite click. The wires and fastenings seem less well thought
    out than Cateye, but I suspect that they are just as good in practice.
    I'm impressed by the weather resistance of the unit, it got absolutely
    drenched in an intense shower yesterday (me too) and it wasn't bothered
    in the slightest (I was). My Cateye 7000 has twice failed in similar
    circumstances. The altitude function is *excellent* and provides
    endless amusement to simpletons like me (the altitude of my house
    varies by up to 100 metres in each direction according to atmospheric
    pressure, at least according to the unit) plus it impresses friends no
    end.
    
    There are other features worth mentioning. There's an arrow, visible in
    every mode, the direction of which indicates whether you are going
    faster or slower than your average speed. The display is updated every
    second, but when the bike is stopped and no button has been pressed
    inside the last hour, only every ten seconds. Resetting your altitude
    to take account of air pressure changes doesn't affect trip climb. Trip
    climb can show either just altitude gain (me) or gain plus loss (for
    lying swine). The setup procedure is OK, you can change wheel size or
    clock time without losing other information. Plus the clock is handy.
    
    Phew. Shoulda done a project plan for this note...
    
    
    Rod

    I've had  an Avocet 50 for a month now, and am of mixed mind about
    it. The buttons work well, and the altimeter is fun.

    The problems are the pickup mount is weak. I finally used silicone
    adhesive (which will peel off later) to glue the damn thing to the
    dropout.  The  magnet  on  the  wheel  was only a little easier to
    mount.  The cadence unit is due real soon according to Nahsbar, or
    August according to the Usenet.  I'll believe it when I see it.

    The average  speed  only  when  moving  is  a  mixed blessing. I'm
    changing  my  mind  to prefer the kind which includes stops in the
    time,  as  there  are always traffic lights, and when figuring out
    how  much  farther  I  can  go before dark I should take them into
    account.  Also,  it's very frustrating to watch my "average speed"
    drop as I walk the bike into a storage area.

    The average  speed is missing the cateye's annoying mis-feature of
    sometimes oscillating rather than changing cleanly.

    It seems  a  bit slow to respond, and it's odd to look down to see
    max. speed 20, current speed 20.5

--David

    BTW .67, the 50's altitude sensor is completely internal; no amount of
    rain or dirt should affect it.
    
    I like mine.  So far this year: 850 miles horizontally, 29,500 feet
    vertically, max 47.5mph (read: lots of rides up/down Mt Wachusetts).

    re:.70:.67:  but running over it every 7 ft is a bummer :-)

    
    
    What..  No note on "cadence"??  Well I guess this is as good a place as
    any....   I just bought a Cat Eye micro computer and it gives a cadence
    readout...  I like it but I'm not quite sure how to use it...  
    
    Should I try for a consistant rpm, regardless of terrain ???  Is there
    a normal rpm range???  
    
    jim o.
    
    
    
    
    

A DIRECT/ALL/TITLE=CADENCE gives the following:

         NEXUS::GORTMAKER    25-FEB-1987   13.8  Cadence indicator...
         HARDY::CONNELL      26-FEB-1987   13.11  Cadence?
        SHALOT::ELLIS        23-APR-1991  280.16  wheel cadence sensor
        EAGLE1::CAMILLI      21-MAY-1987  321.3  Decadence
        TRACER::DUNN         11-AUG-1987  416.8  CADENCES
          AMUN::CRITZ        25-SEP-1987  478.5  Speed OR Cadence
          AQUA::OCONNOR      28-DEC-1987  507.1  They use big gears or high cadences
        STARCH::WHALEN        7-NOV-1988  915.10  Triple could help keep cadence up
          ASIC::NBLIAMPTIS    5-MAY-1989  1137.46  High Cadence Tall Tale
          THOM::LANGLOIS     15-MAY-1989  1137.64  top cadence RPM
          ASIC::NBLIAMPTIS    7-JUL-1989  1137.81  cadence vs mph formula
        LEVERS::LANDRY        8-JUL-1989  1137.83  1XX = cadence
         GUESS::YERAZUNIS     5-JUL-1989  1233.6  Cadence?
         EGYPT::CRITZ        20-JUL-1989  1254.2  Eat, Drink lots; High cadence
        CRBOSS::BEFUMO        3-AUG-1990  1683.7  Hard choice, but cadence is a nice feature
        NETMAN::DRUEKE       10-AUG-1990  1696.1  A related question about cadence
         IAMOK::FRERE         7-JAN-1991  1817.1  CATEYE is good but get cadence
         ULTRA::WITTENBERG    7-JAN-1991  1817.6  Check cadence occasionally
         SALEM::ORRIS        14-MAY-1991  1817.72  cadence question

    I have a Cateye Vectra, model 7000, and I am wondering what the
    correct value for the wheel circumference should be.
    According to the manual, I believe there are 3 ways to find the
    correct value.
    
    	1. Measure the radius of the wheel. From the ground to the
    	   middle of the tire.
    	2. Marking the ground, say where the valve stem meets the ground,
           doing a complete rotation, and measure the distance.
    	3. Read the tire size on the side wall.
    
    Anyway, when I do the above 3 measurements, I get 3 different values,
    ranging from,
    
    	1. 215
    	2. 213
    	3. 217
    
    I think the second value would be the most accurate, measuring the 
    distance the wheel is traveling, but shouldn't I be getting 3 identical
    values, or is this just insignificant and values from 213 to 217 is
    close enough.
    
    Just curious,
    Scott...

    I would for no 2 myself, since it should be the most accurate (and will
    also give you the fastest speeds...). Whatever you set, you should try
    and cycle some distances that you know are exact, and see how your
    computer measures them so that you can tweak the calibration value if
    necessary.
    
    
    Rod

>================================================================================
>Note 1817.74                     Which computer?                        74 of 74
>TRCA03::MCCONNELL "SMcConnell"                       25 lines   6-JUN-1991 16:46
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Anyway, when I do the above 3 measurements, I get 3 different values,
>    ranging from,
>    
>        1. 215
>        2. 213
>        3. 217
>    
>    Scott...
>
Scott,

There will always be some variation in the measurements. Things like tire
pressure, rider weight and real tire size will affect this. Therefore, when I'm
setting the calibration scale, I pump my tires up to their normal pressure.
Then, I enlist a willing volunteer and sit on my bike normally. This is all to
help get as close to real a reading as possible. Then, I measure three rotations
of the fron wheel, measure the distance and divide by three. Using three
rotations help to cancel out some of the individual variation.

Anyway, to answer your other question, I don't find the sort of variation you
mention to be excessive. In fact, I'd be almost surprised that it is that
small.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Tim

    Actually, the middle one will give you the slowest speeds....  It's the
    lowest number, and the computer calculates speed on the bases of RPM x
    distance travelled/revolution....
    
    	I would use number 2 as the best measurement, provided that the
    tires were inflated to normal pressure and you were actually on the
    bike when you measured how far the tire went per revolution.

    Re .77:  How right you are, how wrong I was. But at least you agree on
    method 2...

    Yes my tires are at the right pressure, but no, I wasn't on the
    bike when I rotated the tires.  I'll try that tonight and see if
    I get a different value.
    
    Thanks,
    Scott...
    

My Cateye Micro has been dying a slow death, so this weekend I put it out of
its misery and sprung for an Avocet 40.  The Avocet 40 is basically the same
unit as the Avocet 50 without the altimeter, cadence option, and price.

I was told by the guy in the shop that the Avocet will be more accurate
in top speeds than the Cateye.  Plus, it has the automatic on-off
feature when computing average speed (computation of average speed not
taken when the wheel is stopped).  When I asked about cadence for the 
Avocet 40, he said that if I really wanted a useful training tool to get
a heart monitor (oh yeah?).

The nice thing about the Avocet 40 is its clean setup on the front fork,
the wires on the Cateye kept drooping on my down tube, and everytime I
changed the back wheel the sensors needed adjusting.

The only drawback of the 40 is that I had to mount it sideways on the stem
because I have arm rests on the handlebars for my tri-geek setup.   After
the season is over, the bars come off and the Avocet is mounted normally.

Road test tonight!!

AAA

    Hmmm... earlier I mentioned that the AVovet 50's owners manual
    says "Waterproof".  Well, mine, about 4 months old, died in a
    torrential downpour.  Display gone, plus the left button lost
    it's tactile feedback click.  I'll lightly scratch an obscure
    place, like the inside of the battery  compartment, to see if
    Avocet gives me the same one back...  _kb
    

    My steam-driver, prehistoric avocet has this,  I have almost thrown it
    out several times.  Then I just replaced the battery and it limps on.
    
    rod
    
    [..
    
    I think that this is one of the first avocets into the country (UK) and
    I have had a lot of problems which I have since read in this conference
    to be well known teerthing problems, unfortunately as far as this
    consumer goes they have a bad image for quality now...
    
    ..]

    Well...
    I didn't try replacing the batteries, and I mentioned that in my little
    note to them.  The owner's manual says they should last 1.5-2 years.
    If they went dead after 4 months (included with computer), I'll let
    THEM replace the batteries.  -kb

    
    	I've got a problem with the new Avocet 40 that I've just bought.
    Every time I ride on roads with an uneven road surface (even just the
    Shellproof stuff that seems to be everywhere in Fife), the computer
    moves in it's handlebar holder switching itself off and requiring a
    gentle push back to get it going again.
    	I've got a slight angle on it to try and stop this, but it doesn't
    seem to make any difference.
    
    Graham.
    

    Re prev: 
    
    This isn't meant to be insulting, but are you sure you've pushed it
    fully home (hmmmm)? I have an Avocet 50, same box really, and it has a
    *very* positive click before it engages fully, after which there isn't
    the slightest chance of it's jumping out. If, when you push the A40 on,
    you don't feel a click, push harder!
    
    
    Rod

    Anyone know whether the cadence kit is available for the Avocet 50?
    I haven't bought a new toy in quite a while.
    
    
    Rod

    
    the cadence kit is listed as optional in Performance catalog, and sells
    for $9.95

    Nashbar just  cancelled  my backordered Avocet 50 cadence kit. The
    last  rumors  I heard were in April, and people were talking about
    September  then, but I haven't heard any rumors in a while. I also
    haven't seen one yet.

--David

    uhoh, more vaporware...

    I bought Avecet 50 at the beginning of the summer with the intention
    of getting the cadence kit, but couldn't find where to get it. 
    I tried Performance, Nashbar and others.  Finely called Avocet and
    spoke with the national sales manager.  He told me they blew it
    by announcing the product and not having perfected it.  He told
    me it should be ready to by Augest, and because of my inconvenience
    would send me one for free.  I havent seen it yet and am getting
    ready to call again.  I'll let you know how I make out.
    
    Tom

I know that the A50 launch was delayed, and I understand that perfecting the
altimeter could be a good excuse, but why is Avocet finding it so difficult
to provide cadence? It's not as if it's a major first, after all.


Rod

>================================================================================
>Note 1817.91                     Which computer?                        91 of 91
>RUTILE::MACFADYEN "Enough laxity, we need more strictity" 6 lines   1-SEP-1991 06:49
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I know that the A50 launch was delayed, and I understand that perfecting the
>altimeter could be a good excuse, but why is Avocet finding it so difficult
>to provide cadence? It's not as if it's a major first, after all.
>
>Rod
>
Yeah, I'm having a hard time understanding what planet the Avocet people really
inhabit. When they introduced the Avocet 30 computer many years ago, it was
advertised in magazines for at least a year before it was available. Fair
enough, we all make mistakes. But now they are doing exactly the same thing all
over with this cadence kit! It make me glad that I went with Cateye instead.

Not only that, but I keep hearing from the U.K. importer of the Cross tires
that they will be arriving in two weeks. The fact that I've had a pair on order
for over four months is immaterial. There are times that I regret that they
make such good stuff! Then again, I suppose they have to to get over this bad
public relations side of things. Sound familiar?

Tim

    Well, I got around to calling Avocet, and guess what???
    The date slipped!!!!
    I was told it was real solid for October, and the 'molds' were already
    made.
    Oh! Well maybe by Spring. 8'(
    Tom 

    I needed a new computer this spring since my venerable Cateye Vectra
    bit the dust...  
    
    So I ordered the CM500 from Performance.  This unit has several
    displays  - on all the current speed and cadence are always displayed -
    with a choice of elapsed time, trip distance, total distance, or clock. 
    One of the nice things is that you can switch the cadence between
    current, max, or average at any time.
    
    So far the unit seems to be reasonably rugged and works fine.  One of
    the other nice features is that the reset requires that a button be
    pressed and held like the Vetta rather than just momentarily hitting
    both buttons like on the Cateye - which I did at LEAST once a week in
    the middle of a ride.

    Re .94
    And what is the price of the CM500.
    
    Also anyone know anything about the Vetta C20?  It seems to be a new
    model and Mountain Equipment Coop here in Vancouver is cataloguing it
    at CAD$39.95 though their stock hasn't arrived yet.  This seems to be a
    good price since their ad says it includes a cadence facility.
    
    Next cheapest with cadence that I've seen here is the Cateye Micro at
    CAD$49.95
    
    	Owen

>    And what is the price of the CM500.
    
    It was on sale from Performance for $47.95.  I think in the most recent
    catalog it was $49.95...  So far I'm impressed with it.  It seem sturdy
    and works well so far.

I was resetting my Avocet 50 last evening to put in a new calibration 
number (got some nice Conti Supersport Ultra 700x20 I want to try) and
noticed an unexpected "feature" of this computer.

In brief: if you change the calibration number, you will also change the
accumulated distance the computer shows!

What I actually saw was that distance had been 270km (haven't used this 
computer since February, honest) and when I put in the new, smaller 
calibration number, my accumulated distance went down to 255km. Gobsmacked,
I was. The Avocet must count wheel revolutions as its basic unit and multiply
this by the calibration number to arrive at the distance displayed.

You can check this yourself easily enough and at no risk to your stored data.
First make a note of the accumulated distance. Then go into calibration mode
by pressing and holding both buttons simultaneously until all LCD 
segments come on and then the screen clears apart from the legend "miles" or 
"km". Now release the buttons. Use the right-hand button to step through the 
functions. When you come to the calibration number, use the left-hand button
to change it. Press the right-hand button a few more times to come out of
calibration mode. Then look and see how the accumulated distance has changed.

Now you know how to cheat with an Avocet 50.


Rod


PS  Any news on the cadence kit? (Fat chance.)

    Got the Avocet 50.
    
    Got the Cadence Kit.
    
    The computer is excellent. It's definitely a significant improvement
    over the Cateye Micro I had before.
    
    cheers,
     /Rich

    
    
    Re. 97
    
    	Great! Now I know how to impress everyone with my computer.
    Increase my calibration to 330 metres!  :*)
    
    

   The C20 finally arrived down at the CO-OP.  Price turned out to be
   good at CAD$34.75.

   Quality seems to be OK but time will tell...  The buttons are large
   enough but their feel will take a bit of getting used.  Parts were
   to fit and align on the bike.  Relative to various points made in
   other replies :

   Display seems fine with lots of contrast - secondary mode labels
   are a little small to read but I guess one gets used to them by
   their relative position on the screen.

   It's a pain having to click forward through each display mode in
   sequence -  speed/clock, speed/cadence, speed/stopwatch, avg.
   speed/trip, max speed/ODO,

   Cadence displays occurs simultaneously with current speed and +/-
   relative to average. ( I think the Micro gives cadence only in this
   mode)

   Wheel circumference can be changed without affecting accumulated
   totals.

   Auto-stop/start seems to function smoothly.

   Display digits - speed to 0.5 km/hr, trip distance to .02 km, ODO
   to integer km, stopwatch to 9 hrs 59 mins 59 secs.

    

    I'm looking for a new computer, because my old (a cateye cc-6000 micro)
    doesn't work propably any more. I've tried many things but the current
    speed very often drops to zero. Does anybody know a solution for this
    problem. 
    If not I'll buy a new one. I like the avocet 50 because of the altitude
    options. Can anybody tell me some more about it. I have an oversized
    ATB. Does the equipment easily fit on my fork and handle bar. I also
    read that the magnet disk only fits on a 36 spokes wheel. Mine has 32.
    What about the cadence unit. Is it an extra box, you can put on the
    handle bar next to the speed unit ??
    
    Cheers,
    
       Robert.

    >I've tried many things but the current
    >speed very often drops to zero. Does anybody know a solution for
    >this problem?
    
    Sounds like the revs are not being picked up by the pickup.
    But you have probably tried repositioning the magnet on the spokes,
    that type of thing.  Could be a frayed wire?  Check and see...
    though usually that's an all-or-nothing type of failure.
    
    I guess I'd opt for a whole new unit, if your measures have failed.
    Did you take the computer off its mount and make sure the contacts
    were clean?
    
    -john

    	I believe Justin's Bicycle Basement Outlet Store (JBBOS)
    	has a new micro for very little.
    
    	Scott

    re: -2
    
    I've cleaned the contacts, reinstalled the sensors and still the
    problem came back.
    So maybe it is a frayed wire. I didn't check that. But if this is the
    problem, how do I solve it. Put a new cable between the computer and
    the sensors ?
    
    Thanks for your replies,
    
    
      Robert

    
    If it is a frayed wire, as happened to me recently, I'd get a 
    new mounting unit (set of sensors & wires).  I didn't think it
    would be reliable trying to fix it.  As we've said, mounting
    units aren't that much less expensive than computer + mounting unit.
    
    Sigh.
    -john

You can buy a transmitter for a 32 spoke wheel from Nashbar for just a couple
of dollars.  I did that when I went from 36 to 32 spoke wheels.  Look on the
page with the computers, it's listed in a little box at the bottom.

Sue

    Is it just me who is getting bored with replacing (expensive) haresses
    for Cateyes ?  I have a feeling I'm going to have to put my fourth one
    in 3 years on...

    
    I'm not happy about it...

    re .101

    > Does the equipment easily fit on my fork and handle bar. I also
    > read that the magnet disk only fits on a 36 spokes wheel. Mine has 32.
    > What about the cadence unit. Is it an extra box, you can put on the
    > handle bar next to the speed unit ??

    Yes, I also have a magnet for a 32-spoke wheel on my road bike.  I switch
    the Avocet 50 between my mtn bike and my road bike.

    The cadence unit is not an extra box.  You can buy the cadence sensor
    kit as an add-on, it includes the magnet for your crank, sensor for the
    chainstay, wire, and a new mount which goes on the handlebar.  Then you
    just go into the setup-mode on the Avocet 50 and turn cadence on.
    When you have the Avocet displaying your velocity, there's a smaller
    number below which will display cadence, max speed, or avg speed.  Push
    a button to toggle between those three options.

    Good morning,
    
    Saturday I went to the Bike shop. My intension was to buy the Avocet 50
    but they didn't sell it. I think my country is to flat, so there's no
    market for such computers with altitude features. 
    
    They could order the M50 but it would cost me 250 guilders. That's
    about $125. It seems quiet expensive to me, because in this notes file
    I've seen other prices.
    
    Tell me some more about "Nashbar". Is it an order company in the
    states ? As is, will they also sell to foreign countries ?
    
    Cheers,
    
        Robert (Hup Holland Hup)

>================================================================================
>Note 1817.107                    Which computer?                      107 of 109
>MOVIES::WIDDOWSON "Its (IO$_ACCESS|IO$M_ACCESS) VMS"  3 lines  26-JUN-1992 11:18
>
>    Is it just me who is getting bored with replacing (expensive) haresses
>    for Cateyes ?  I have a feeling I'm going to have to put my fourth one
>    in 3 years on...
>
Well Rod, I have a 10 year old Cateye Mate which has worked fine until about 3
months ago. In this case, it is the main unit which seems to have pulled apart.
My wife's Cateye Solar is another blast from the past. It has finally given up
displaying anything on the panel after a mere 10 years. In both cases, we have
only replaced batteries. I now have a Vectra and a Mity-2, Ann has a Micro.
These are too recent to comment on longevity, but I'm hoping for the best.
Anyway, I can't complain about the service these computers have given me. I
only wish I know how to guarantee it!

Tim

    
    Hi Robert,
    
    Yes, Bike Nashbar is a mail-order company (see notes in this
    conference).  I don't know if they'd ship outside of the States.
    Import duties might be a problem.  I just looked, and the Avocet 50
    is $90 in the Performance Bicycle Shop catalog (comparable to Nashbar),
    so you might save $35 (Hfl 70?), which is something, but the shipping
    and import duties might take most of those savings away, if you were
    ordering it directly from them.  Of course, if someone happened to
    have a used one and happened to be coming to Holland and would like
    to give it to you, then that would be another matter. :-)
    
    cheers,
    -john

    When my computer (Cateye Micro) stopped displaying speed, that means
    that it's time for a new battery.

I picked up one of these recently when I found that it only cost FF100 
(I had really only meant to buy another mount kit). It's such a simple
piece of equipment; why did Avocet take so long to bring it out?

It's not difficult to install although having another wire trailing down
the frame is a little bit messy. It works fine.

I haven't really discovered any surprises about my cadence. It's about 90 
when I'm going easily, about 70 on a climb, up to 120 or more if I'm running 
out of gears. I prefer to have the Avocet showing actual speed most of the
time so cadence has become my preferred piece of secondary information to go
with the speed display (the other choices are max speed, but that's too 
static to be interesting, or average speed, but that's too depressing.)


Rod

    
    Hi,  my mountain bike computer was ripped off last weekend. A
         Cateye CC-8000. I have called a few places to no availe. 
         I  don't want to transfer the computor on my road bike to the 
         MTBs. What is the best MTB computer in the market now a days?
         I go threw a lot of water (brooks and stuff) fall occassionaly
         in mud ;-) so am looking for a good waterproof one. 
         
    Shaw

    I've had an Avocet 50 on my mtn bike for two years, including
    winter commuting, and this last winter was pretty harsh.  There's
    also one on my road bike, which got inundated this last week in a
    downpour (the kind where you can't breath).  No problems with
    either.  kb 

    
    Well I went shopping Friday night, and brought home a Cateye cordless
    after messing with it for a while realized that it is not practical
    mounting on the Rock Shox with the brake stuff in the way of it.
    So no good signal could be picked up. 
    Saturday I picked up an Avocet Altimeter 50. Used it the three days
    like it, however I wish the Elapsed time was auto start/stop. 
    I tend to forget to either stop or start it, especially when you have
    the display in a different mode. 
    
    Shaw

  I'm in the market for a new computer and am considering a wireless model.  I also
  have a Polar HR monitor and was told that there is a possibility that the wireless
  computer will interfere with the HR monitor.  I'm looking at the Cateye Cordless 2
  right now.

  Anybody know if this will be a problem or where I can some facts?  I checked with a
  few bike shops but couldn'tget a definitive answer.  Any experience with cordless
  computer and HR monitors?
  

   thanks,
    bob

    my cateye cordless and Polar HRM's talk to each other.
    
    ed

 -1

>my cateye cordless and Polar HRM's talk to each other.

  That's what I thought might happen. I read a few articles and called Cateye to
  confirm this. According to the Cateye rep I spoke with, the Cateye cordless puts
  out a narrow signal but the Polar uses a broad signal and picks up interference 
  from the Cateye. So I guess it will be a computer with wire for now - at least I 
  can easily get cadence included.
  
   thanks,
    bob

    
    	Well, I ended up going with the Specialized [made by Cateye, so I'm
    	told] wired model.
    
    	I asked for a Cateye wireless, since all I saw on display was the
    	Vetta wireless ... and the kid at Landry's told me that the wire-
    	less was susceptible to signal fluctuations due to power lines,
    	etc. ... and I noticed that for a $30 savings I could get a wired
    	model.  So wired it was.
    
    	Installed it Thursday night when I got home.  Installation wasn't
    	bad, once I figured out the correct combination of fork mount [the
    	medium one] and rubber spacer [none].
    
    	And by Sunday morning I even had the mini-trip functions working
    	correctly [pays to read the directions, eh Chip?  8^)].
    
    	No problems yet.  68 miles on the computer, and about 78 on the
    	bike [rode about 10 miles in the 2 nights BC ... Before Computer].
    
    	Well, except for the fact that I can't set the clock time.  It
    	would seem that you toggle the display until you see the clock, and
    	then you hit the set button and move the hours/minutes with the
    	mode/start button ... but the clock never displays until the unit
    	"shuts down" after an hour of non-use.  Oh well ... I'm going down
    	to the bike shop today or tomorrow and I'll ask them.
    

my cateye goes into clock mode by holding the mode button
when the elapsed time is displayed

--roger

    
    	I did go back yesterday ... and this one goes into "clock" while
    	holding down the mode button in AVS mode.
    
    	So my clock works now.  Of course, I wear a watch anyways, so I
    	don't have a need for it ... but it's good to know it works.
    

    I think the kid at Landry's is susceptible to power surges from
    power lines (must be the plate in his head) :-)
    
    As long as you're happy with it that's all that counts!
    
    Good riding...
    
    Chip

    
    	Well, in some other note I mentioned that I had plotted a route
    	and then tried it, and was off by 1.3 miles on 12, and had blamed
    	it on the map.
    
    	Well, it turns out that the map is very close to being correct.
    	Close enough to attribute the error to dental floss calibration,
    	at least.  8^)
    
    	The problem was that I used the table in the computer's manual to
    	set my wheel circumference.  The table indicated that a 26" wheel
    	should have a circumference of 208/209 cm, so I used 208 cm.  Well,
    	yesterday I rolled the bike along a tape measure and came up with
    	220 cm ... or 1.058x what I had before.  So that's a 5.5% error
    	rate, so I'll have to modify my totals.
    
    	And when you reset the circumference on this computer, it doesn't
    	modify the mileage accumulated thus far ... it keeps the original
    	total.
    
    	No wonder I'm so sore ... I've gone 15 more miles than I thought
    	I had in the last 3 weeks.  8^)
    

RE: <<< Note 1817.125 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Trouble with a capital 'T'" >>>
    
>    	The problem was that I used the table in the computer's manual to
>    	set my wheel circumference.  The table indicated that a 26" wheel....

You really have a 26" wheel/tire? Interesting. If it's a knobby tire, then I
would think that the outer circumference of the tire would be quite different
(bigger) than that of a road, slick tire which fits the same rim.
						-- Tom

    
    	When I bought the computer, I measured the height of the tire
    	just to make sure ... and came up with a diameter of 26" top
    	to bottom.
    
    	Either the chart in the manual is wrong or my tape measure is
    	as much out of calibration as the dental floss I used.
    
    	8^)