Conference noted::bicycle

>    then home later.  Just out of curiosity, is this eligible for mileage
>    reimbursement?
    
Don't know 'bout DEC, but it seems like when I worked for Uncle Samuel, 
the gov't had a mileage reimbursement for bike travel. It wasn't near the 
car (4.5 cents/mile vs. 20., or something in that neighborhood). I 
suppose they might've had a rate for motorbikes, too. Even though I 
occasionally rode to help keep our gov't. in action (that's *2* words, 
thank you :-) ), I don't think I ever bothered filing for it, so the 
particulars are a bit furry in my brain....
                                                 ken

    I have submitted many vouchers for travel and no where does it ask
    what type of transportation mode used.  Fill out the form get it
    signed, get your money!  WHY TELL THEM YOU USED YOUR BICYCLE?
    
    John

    I'd say you should get the money, unless you chose not to ride with
    another employee making the same trip.  Why should DEC care which
    form of transportation you used?
    
    MATT

    If I drove my car to another office for a meeting (which I was doing
    a lot this past winter, work in Mt. View, doing work in Santa Clara) I
    wouldn't bother to file.  I guess it doesn't seem worth it, I figure
    it's just part of the job.

    But a bicycle?  I for one don't get self-rightous about why I commute
    by bike.  I ride for one reason, I LIKE TO RIDE.  Well ok, I also don't
    like traffic jams, but that's secondary.  When I'm riding I'm not
    working I'm having fun.  What do I do on the weekends?  Go riding.

    For most people their work day consists not only of the time they spend
    at the office, but the time that they spend commuting.  For many people
    the commuting time can be quite substantial.  However for me, I'm not
    working until I get to the office.  And as soon as I leave the office
    then I'm not commuting, I'm having fun.

    I'm not saying don't try, after all if I saw a $5 bill laying on the
    street I'd pick it up but unless you have a point to make or some
    principle to prove I won't bother.

    Justify it on the extra "fuel" you used.
    
    steve

    It doesn't exactly apply to .0, since he used part of lunch time, but
    remember that riding a bike between DEC facilities takes more time
    than driving. Time that DEC is paying dearly for. Taking that time
    for an enjoyable ride, add asking for mileage on it, is a kick in DEC's
    teeth, if you ask me.
    What if the meeting was 40 miles away, and started at 2? Now you have
    to blow off an hour early. Should you really get reimbursed for doing
    that?
    
    John

    re last:  FWIW, my commute time in, 39 minutes for 15 miles, is often
    faster than I can drive in, especially right at the 8:30/5:00 time
    frame.  I wouldn't ride 40 miles to a meeting during the day, but the
    10 mile range seems to be pretty much a tossup.  See this month's
    Bicycling for some interesting predictions of traffic congestion in
    the future.  Massachusetts already has the most congested arterial
    roads in the nation. -k  

         The $.20 to .26/mile that most companies pay employees for using
    their own vehicles for work related travel is meant solely as
    reimbursement for the fuel costs incurred and for estimated wear
    and tear to the vehicle.  While we cyclists can attempt to justify
    fuel costs (ice cream, banana's etc.) and wear and tear to our high
    tech machines, that per mile cost would not approach the $.225/mile
    that Digital allows.  By seeking the full automobile reimbursement,
    we would not be doing our part to help our company through these
    financially difficult times.

    re: time
    I found that for short rides, maybe less than 5 miles, a bike can be
    faster than a car.  Not going to and from a parking lot on foot, saves much
    time, not to mention the bicycle's occasional advantages in traffic. 
    There are however, many other considerations, pro and con.

    In the computer business, price is determined by performance,
    not by cost.

    Has anybody tried to get a reimbursement through petty cash with
    anything other than 22.5 cents per mile?
    I know of cases where expense sheets were returned because the
    half pennies were rounded up before adding them together.
    A voucher with 5 cents per mile might meet severe resistance.

    There is a special reimbursement rate for using a private plane...
    
    ed

There is an article in the May,June 1990 issue of MIT's Technology Review
magazine about bicycling as an environmentally sound means of transport
and what various cities and countries are doing to encourage it.

Apparently Palo Alto reimburses city employees for cycling trips at the
rate of 7 cents a mile.

The author states that Denmark and the Netherlands earn highest honors
for accomodating bicycles because of their high gas taxes (to help pay
for the hidden costs of motoring) and extensive networks of bicycle
highways.

-David Buffo

    This note is going in wierd directions so....
    Wouldn't it be nice if Digital offered MORE cents per mile if
    you rode your bike than if you drove a car! This would be a great
    step forward for the enviormental concerns that most of us have.
    It would benifit many; 
    Rider - better outlook to start the day 
            better outlook to end the day
            fitness
    Digital - more productivity from happy people
              less traffic control trouble
              reduced health benifits cost (there has to be a way !)
              ** and most of all think about the publicity this would
              get..... everyone would be talking about this and how
              wonderful it is for Digital to take such incentive to
              save the enviorment. Finally advertising that would cost
              MUCH LESS than DecWorld!
     Town/City - they would more than likely have a bit less conjestion
                Wear & Tear on roads by bikes can't be as bad as cars
                They to would benifit by people talking about saveing
                  the enviorment.
    
    
     I'm sure this has its flaws also but someone somewhere has to get
    the ball rolling in the right direction, and what better direction
    then toward the most efficient means of transportation known to
    man. And why not in one of the most conjested areas in the USA
    good old MA.
    
    ERIC
    

    	RE: 1635.13
    
    	Eric,
    
    	It would be nice, but...
    
    	Only in your dreams.
    
    	It will take nothing short of $5 gallon gas to even get
    	people to think about something other than their cars.
    
    	Scott

    Eric,
    
    Nicely put!  I love the idea and have thought about the possibilities.
    
    Maybe if more of us voiced our support some kind of small steps
    could be taken.
    
    Keep up the good thoughts.
    
    -Robin               
    

    
>    Wouldn't it be nice if Digital offered MORE cents per mile if
>    you rode your bike than if you drove a car!
    Wouldn't it be nice if DEC made use of all this telecom technology,
    and we didn't have to drive, fly, or bike to meetings!
    If would have all your benefits, and pay off financially in travel
    money saved, and work hours saved.
    
    John

re .13

While reading the August issue of _Bicycling_ it occured to me that we could be
doing a lot more that we are to promote commuting by bike that we are.  If we
got enough people doing it, then we could probably push for some of the
improvements in facilities (bicycle lockers, etc) that we'd like to see.

Our first step would be to organize, probably with a person at each site being
the site's representative to the bicycle commuting committee.  The site
organizer would be responsible for promotion of the idea and providing
assistance (route planning, finding riding partners, etc) to those interested.
After there is a number of people at a number of sites commuting on a regular
basis then we can work on improvement of facilities.

Rich

    Check out this conference.  (I sent my input regarding bikes inside. 
    Unfortunately, no one has back Scott and I)
    
    Maybe you could suggest your idea to "corporate" via this system.
    
    If you agree with a topic, back it!  Show "them" it's not one
    indivduals view.  That it would benift many.
    
    My $.02
    
    Tim B.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
          <<< CAPNET::CAPVAX$PAGE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DELTA_IDEAS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< DELTA_IDEAS >-
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Note 1.0                     Conference Description                   No replies
SCARGO::WEISMAN_E                                    31 lines   5-JUN-1990 16:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
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    .14
    $5 gas price??? no sweat lets start thinking about that also!
    you could have the feds tax the gas as a luxury tax to really
    hike up the price and then maybe we could lower the deficit and
    the pollution!
    
    ERIC

****Memo From:	NAME: Jack Smith                    

  0  MILEAGE - We've grown up with many sites in the Greater Maynard
     area, with some towns having multiple facilities.  I suppose we 
     could have elected to put tens of thousands of employees in one 
     building or town, but we didn't.  We need to think of Greater 
     Maynard as a "VIRTUAL OFFICE."  In other words, everything within 
     a specified area is considered an OFFICE.  What I mean is simple: 
     We should not pay mileage to a Mill-based employee who travels to 
     Marlboro for a meeting, or vice versa.  Obviously, this is just 
     one example.

     EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY:
     AS A NEW POLICY, WE WILL NOT PAY MILEAGE WITHIN A 25-MILE RADIUS 
     OF THE EMPLOYEE'S PRINCIPAL PLACE OF WORK.
    
    *****
    Makes the base note a moot point now.  No payum for gas, no useum gas,
    Jack.  Better get some more racks for my VIRTUAL CAR!  -kb
    
    

I biked, completed the mileage form, got the reimbursement.

Sally

FWIW - $0.225 just barely covered my fuel expenses.

                                                        
    Lessee what it really costs to ride a bike. (on a per-1000-mile basis)
    
    
    I get about 1000 miles on a set of tires + tubes 	$30
    I need two patch kits to get that far		$6
    I go thru 4 cans of puppy mace on the way		$24
    I go thru quarter of a set of wheels		$60
     (yeah, I use good wheels...  so sue me)
    One chain						$10
    One chain cleaner + solvent				$20
    One chain oil + bearing grease			$10
    One set of batteries for the Avocet			$5
    One pair of Hind cycling shorts			$40
    50% wear on the foam Grab-On grips			$5
    30% wear on my derailleurs				$40
    30% wear on my Bell helmet				$15
    30% wear on my bike gloves				$6
    20% wear on my bike saddle				$4
    5% of the fatigue lifetime on my bicycle frame	$30
    0% wear on the brake pads (I never slow down)	$0  :-)
    
    			TOTAL COST PER 1000 MILES-->    $305
    
    
    or a whopping 30.5 cents a MILE in parts and maintenance, completely
    ignoring the additional food (and the initial cost of buying the bike!)
    
    Note that all of these costs are the _incremental_ costs (cost isn't
    incurred if I don't ride the bike), unike the 18 cent-a-mile base cost
    of a car, which is depreciation and insurance, and is incurred whether
    I drive the car or not.
    
    Yes, I'm ignoring a lot of stuff (like personal fitness, personal
    satisfaction, etc)... but having just put over $300 into my bike to
    take care of overdue maintenance, I've become acutely aware of how
    much it really costs to run our high-tech lo-tech toys.
    
    	-Bill
    

    new pair of shorts every 1000 miles?  Well, I suppose it's
    easier than washing them.  :-)
    
    new chain cleaner?  Change your helmet with your gloves?
    4 cans of puppy mace?  Wow, I don't even wanna think about riding in
    your neighborhood?
    
    ed
    (who only dreams about a buck a mile :-))

    
    30% wear on derailleur, etc.?
    
    That would put their lifetime at only 3300 miles.  Barely enough
    to get you across the country.  :-)
    
    The parts on my blue De Rosa have 65,000-70,000 miles on them.
    On the Fiorelli, up to 100,000, before the frame gave out.
    
    Guess they don't make them like they used to.  :-)
    
    -john

    No, John, it's just that you insist on using part for a full year before
    replacing them.  :-)
    
    ed

    
    
    Hey John, which frame did you crack in the U.K. back when we were
    there...as I recall you had a rather large number of miles on that
    sucker too!  
    
    Geeez, I still see lots of old campy record stuff cranking along...
    with a hell of a lot more than 3000 miles!!  Even mine has more than
    that and it all looks 'showroom'!!
    
    -Steve

    I have Campy SR components on both my bikes - the components on my
    Holdsworth I bought *used*, and I ride year round in all sorts of weather,
    about 15K miles/year [a little less this year due to lack of time :-(]

    However, I did replace a crankset with Dura Ace because I was put out
    at what Campy wanted for replacement chainrings.

    This brings up a question.

    It seems to be hard to get freewheels anymore, all you see is cogsets
    these days.  I have several wheelsets with old SR hubs, and one of the
    hubsets is on the second set of rims with another ready for a rebuild.

    So tell me - have I finally been screwed by this planned obsolescence
    stuff with respect to these hubs, and will I have to make up some
    wheels with freehubs just to be able to get replacement cogs?

    - Jim

     There are still tons of freewheels out there. NASHBAR & PERFORMANCE
    still carry Reginas, Shimanos, and Maillard Aris...
    
     Have fun...
    
                 Chip

    
    
    
    They sure are!  In fact I'm going with Mavic components with freewheels
    to keep the cost a little lower!  If I tried to order the Cassette hubs
    et al I'd be in divorce court real quick!!  I'm using a 7 speed
    Maillard on my ancient Reynolds now with my old Record
    equipment...works just fine!
    
    -Steve

    I finally found a Maillard Aris that wasn't too expensive; it would
    be cheaper to make new wheels than to buy very many Regina or
    Dura Ace freewheels!  What is irritating is I used to be able to buy
    just a cog or two from Gamache rather than a new freewheel.  Then
    they stopped having those.  What really put me out was finding
    nothing in the size I wanted that wasn't insanely expensive recently.
    No more of those cheap Suntours that were good for grinding to
    powder whilst riding thru the New England winters here.

    I'll probably go Japanese and put together freehub wheels next, if
    it will be possible to get individual cogs that have worn instead of
    a whole set each time.

    - Jim

WEIRDNUZ.331 (News of the Weird, June 10, 1994)
by Chuck Shepherd


* In May the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that
George Puzak, a member of the city's Park and
Recreation Board, had requested reimbursement for
official travel at 29 cents a mile despite the fact
that he travels by bicycle.  State Rep. Phyllis Kahn
said she has billed the state for official travel by
bicycle since 1979 but not at the maximum rate.  She
said she always requests a per-mile rate that covers
the cost of the bananas and yogurt she eats for "fuel,"
plus a penny a mile for bicycle depreciation.
[Minneapolis Star-Tribune, 5-4-95, 5-5-94] 


Copyright 1994, Universal Press Syndicate.  All rights
reserved.  Released for the personal use of readers. 
No commercial use may be made of the material or of the
name News of the Weird.

    COOO-ULL...

    Given that a cluster and chain (about $50, or 5000 pennies, and
    that's assuming low end components) lasts about 3000 miles, that
    penny a mile reimbursement for depreciation she asks for is a gift.
    Go through two tires (again, about $50) in those 3000 miles, and
    you're at $100, or .033/mile, already more than triple the
    reimbursement.  Some handlebar tape, some brake pads, cables,
    pulleys; not to mention a major component or two biting the dust
    every year... I figure I'm closer to .10/mile.  kb

    I always chuckle when "saving money" is listed as a reason to bike to
    work.
    
    Let's see, so far this year it's been tires, chainring, cable,
    degreaser and lots of spray, new raingear and a camelback.
    
    I still have a new set of shoes and cleats to go this summer, and a
    better light setup when it starts to get dark again.  My helmet's
    getting pretty grundgy, too, not to mention new shorts and gloves.
    
    And I STILL had to get a brake job on the lousy CAR this weekend!
    
    I say go for the entire automobile reimbursement allowance!   :-)

     Okay, good point but... Would you be cycling anyway? Wouldn't
     we be buying cloths and lube, and tires, and tubes, and biffed
     replacement parts, and, and, and??? 
    
     Granted, the expense might (and use this word cautiously) be a little
     more than serious recreational riding. Look at the bennies... You're
     being green (EPA tested & approved), you're getting healthy, you're
     promoting the sport/activity (sometimes without even knowing it)...
    
     Am I off base?
    
     Chip

RE: <<< Note 1635.36 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>

>     Okay, good point but... Would you be cycling anyway?

For me, yes certainly. But not as much. Last year, according to my log, about
half of my 3K mileage was commuting (62 days, at about 25 miles round trip).
This year, I expect it to be about 70% commuting (due to reduced opportunity to
ride other times). 

All the benefits you mention are true for bike commuting. I really enjoy it.
						-- Tom

    .36
    
    I'd be cycling, but nowhere near as much.  Last year commuting would
    have been unsafe, so I could not do it.  It was pretty much all I could
    do to put in 15-20 miles a week.  Now I get bummed if I can't do that
    in a day.
    
    I have always counted the financial savings as long term.  Better c/v
    fitness, better musculo-skeletar fitness, reduced stress, and so on. 
    
    Oh, and one other very important side benefit of commuting.
    
    FEAR TRAINING!  ;^)
    
    Mike