Conference noted::bicycle

    I have had similar problems in the past and present.  Two suggestions:
    
    o Bananas 
    
    o Tums
    
    You could be needed potasium which bananas can provide.  My doctor
    also advised calcium.
    
    V8 juice is also good for electrolyte balance.
    
    Other than that, perhaps rest, stretching, ???
    
    steve

    	I agree with Steve. I've also noticed that once I get a cramp,
    	even after it passes, that particular muscle is much more
    	susceptible to cramping again during the remainder of the
    	ride.
    
    	One of the writers here is a nutritionist. You can get a good
    	dose of potassium from bananas and most citrus fruit, according
    	to her.
    
    	I immediately thought that maybe you pushed too hard for that
    	particular climb.
    
    	Scott

    re: .1
    
    >    You could be needed potasium which bananas can provide.  My doctor
    
    	Watermelon has 5 times the potasium of bananas, and it has
    a better taste too.  
    
    						Jerry

    	>> Watermelon has 5 times the potasium (sic) of bananas, and it has
       a better test too.
    
    	That's one person's opinion. If I had to get all my potassium
    	from watermelon, I'd be in tough shape (instead of just being
    	in bad shape 8-)> ).
    
    	Scott (I don't eat popcorn or watermelon, ever)

    I've heard raisins have more potassium than bananas.  Can anybody
    confirm this?  I'm not a big fan of warm mushy bananas, and raisins
    keep better on long rides.  Its like they grew up in the hot sun or
    something.

    The watermelon is real tough to get into a jersey pocket, too!

    I've gotten these cramps in my calves as well.  I usually stand up on
    the pedals with heels stretching as as far as possible.  LaMaze classes
    talk quite a bit about cramping, not sure if it is a different type of
    cramp?
    
    So is a lack of potassium the answer or a theory?
    
    -ken

    re: -2
    
>    The watermelon is real tough to get into a jersey pocket, too!
    
    	I read this in the Sunday News Paper under Hints from Heloise:
    		
    	The night before the big ride stuff your watermellon balls in a
    plastic resealable baggie then throw them in the freezer.  Next morning
    your mellon balls won't slosh around in your Jersey pocket and they
    should be defrosted around the time you take your 40 mile break 
    (Except for Kevin and Ed that eat all of their *food* in the saddle ;^)
    
    					Jerry 

I get the same problem now and then. I've noticed it usually happens
when I havn't warmed up enough before pushing hard. Also it helps to
get rid of the cramp when I drink enen more water than I usually do
which is a lot to begin with. On really long rides, a combination
of Gatoraide and banannas helps a lot. I also do the stand up and
push down on the pedal to stretch the calves bit as well as vary
my hill climbing between in and out of the saddle climbs. I don't
know which of these is the one that helps my cramps but I can usually
get rid of them.


/Mano

    	I hit my first cramping bout last Sunday on an easy 50 mile
    ride. I drank two full extended size water bottles worth of water
    and was still a bit thirsty at the end. (Also, a Lime Freeze at
    Dr. Davis's)  I know I was really dehydrated at the end because
    I weighed myself before and after the ride - I lost 5 pounds in
    4 hours, despite the frequent sips.  On a hot day, I would advise
    everyone to weigh themselves before and after each ride. If you
    can keep your weight loss to 1 or 2%, you shouldn't have any problems.
    But if it get to the 3 to 5% area, expect some symptoms, like cramping.
    I've never gone over 4%, so I don't know when it gets really bad.
    	The other monitor of dehydration is urine color.  When your
    body is well hydrated, it should be very pale, almost colorless.
    If it is dark, you've lost a lot of fluid.
		- Chris
            

< Note 1263.8 by GSFSWS::JSMITH "Support Helmets for Kids" >
                             -< Believe it or not >-

>    	The night before the big ride stuff your watermellon balls in a
>    plastic resealable baggie then throw them in the freezer.  Next morning
>    your mellon balls won't slosh around in your Jersey pocket and they
>    should be defrosted around the time you take your 40 mile break 
>    (Except for Kevin and Ed that eat all of their *food* in the saddle ;^)
    
I do this with frozen bagels and they defrost just fine... and they keep your 
back cool :^)

Kevin

     I have to vote for potassium too. Long rides require a booster
     bite. For short hops (50 is short) you can get away with eating
     prior to the ride (at least it works for me). I don't stretch
     prior to a ride, but always after the ride. I've had pretty
     good luck. I don't know, for sure, which has the higher
     potassium content - bannanas or watermelon. I know that the
     watermelon is easier in the calorie category.
    
     Chip

    It seems to me that I read in last months mag. that cramps are normal
    when you push to hard..Nowhere for the latic acid to travel to.
    Your body muscle is just being pushed to hard for it.
    

    Dave,
    
    Since the cramps happened about 20 minutes into the ride, I doubt that
    they were caused by dehydration.  I think that Mano has it right with
    his suspicion that you didn't do enough stretching/warming up prior to
    the ride.
    
    Kevin,
    
    Thanks for the frozen bagels hint. I never thought of doing that.
    
    Alfonso
     

    re -2
    
    >It seems to me that I read in last months mag. that cramps are normal
    >when you push to hard..Nowhere for the latic acid to travel to.
    >Your body muscle is just being pushed to hard for it.
    
    	Right, the article also stated that you can eliminate
    muscle burn by taking two tablespoons of Baking Soda
    before your ride.  Problem with Baking Soda is that
    it acts as a laxative on most people.  But wouldn't this
     have the double effect of getting you to where you want to
    go *faster*  :-)
    
    						Jerry

    	To reopen an old topic.... I managed to cramp up on a ride this
    weekend and I had two people tell me that it was probably because I
    wasn't breathing right.  Any thoughts on this possibility?
    
    	BTW, I think it was dehydration myself, but the
    lack-of-oxygen-to-the-muscles is a new one to me.
    
    
    larry

     Were you concsious when you cramped? :-) Just kidding. I'd vote
    for ruling out the lack of oxygen thing too. It's a new one on
    me... Dehydration and (or) potassium levels would be more like
    it.
    
      Chip

    Hey Everybody,
    This is a definition taken out of my Anatomy and Physiology book (I am
    going to nursing school). "A cramp within a muscle is an involuntary,
    painful, and prolonged contraction.  Cramps can occur while muscles are
    in use or at rest.  The precise cause of cramps is unknown, but
    evidence indicates that cramps may be related to conditions within in
    the muscle (e.g. calcium or oxygen deficiencies) or to the stimulation
    of motor neurons".  Taken from Concepts of Human Anatomy and Physiology
    Second Edition Kent M. Van DeGraaff/Stuart Ira Fox.  Wm. C. Brown
    Publishers Dubuque, Iowa 1989
                                 Keep Pedallin'
                                      Bob
    P.S. This is not against the rules and regs of the note file is it?

    try drinking some shaklee Performance or that Exceed stuff and see if
    that helps.  I know it has helped me to use Performance on biking and
    hiking trips.  (no i'm not a dealer, my wife buys it for me cause she's
    afraid i push to hard and wants me to stick around). 

    Hey Everybody,
    Re: -1  Yes sports drinks do help.  With the explaination out of my A&P
    book I do not see a correlation, but they do help.
                                                      Keep Pedallin'
                                                          Bob

     The correlation is probably the chemicals sports drinks put back
    into your body... Potassium deficiency is thought to produce cramps.
    
     Most sports drinks have a concentration in them.
    
      Chip

    I read this string and 1600.* for information on my leg cramps.  I
    don't think it was dehydration as I was only 6 miles out when the
    first one started, the weather was only in the 70's, maybe low 80's,
    and I was drinking as I normally do.  I wonder if it was due to a lack
    of some chemical my body requires.

    O.K. here's one for y'all.  What do I do about replacing the chemicals
    my body loses while riding?  Sounds easy, right?  WRONG!  I HATE fruit
    and vegetables!

    When I ride from my house or within a 15 minute drive, I fill one water
    bottle with water and the other with Gatorade.  When I ride farther
    away, like last week, I fill my water bottles with water and rely on
    the sports drink supplied at the rest stops.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Bob

    
    Bob, you're probably doing many things right... certainly enough
    right things to expect a smooth ride.  Maybe with more miles, things
    will just get ironed out.  (I'm being serious.)  Another thing you
    could look at it saddle position, maybe?  Maybe you're cutting off
    blood flow.  Are you spinning enough (low gears, not high ones)?
    
    -john (who satisfies his salt needs lately with BBQ-flavored Fritos)

    
    Bob,  you may be getting cramps for reasons other than
    dehydration/nutrition. I sometimes get leg cramps if I just push it
    (especially up hills) till my legs sieze up. I think it has something
    to do with a build up of lactose in the legs. Afterwards, all I can
    do to keep riding is sit and spin. If I try to stand up an push
    again, they'll sieze up on me again. Perhaps your going out too
    fast for your legs' capabilities?
    
    doug
    

    re: .24 and .25
    
    Maybe I was pushing too hard.  Since I didn't have my cadence it was
    hard to figure out how I was doing.  I'll see how I do this weekend,
    since I have my cadence back.
    
    Bob

    	
    	How about Cytomax or Choline?
    
    	Roger

     The chemical (lack of) commonly connected to cramping is potassium.
    However, (and this is purely my unprofessional opinion) I'd bet the
    farm that it's something other than a chemical depletion issue if
    we're talking about an attack after 6 miles...
    
     Chip