Conference noted::bicycle

>    Suggestions?  Basically I'd just like the thing fixed, but that doesn't
>    appear to be an option at the moment.  I'm sure the dent doesn't help 
>    the frame strength any, but how much could it hurt?  Anyone have any
>    similar experience with a shop?
    
 Yep, it happened to me. Only it was done in the jaws of the workstand vise. I
didn't notice it until I got home and I quickly brought it back. They replaced
the frame. The fix is to heat up the brazed area and remove the tube and
braze a new tube in its place then repaint the frame. Much cheaper to get a new
frame, at least for the bike I had. Demand that it be fixed and never get burnt
twice go somewhere else, or do what I did. Get the tools and do it yourself.

Tom

    Yell and scream at the owner until he agrees to fix it. If he won't
    budge, time for small claims.
    On the down side, it's your word against his.
    On the plus side, you have the word of an employee that someone
    rode your bike "just for fun". That may be enough to make someone
    unbiased believe you.
    Good luck, keep us informed.
    
    John

    Another possibility is to mention to them your large circle of friends
    (anybody reading this notes file and spends $$ on cycling) who would be
    happy to hear how this particular store likes to keep their customers 
    happy...
    
    Eric

    Be really careful about mentioning the notesfile to outsiders. I think
    that a bad review in the home_work file closed it down for a while. The
    official word is that no negative comments should appear in notes files.
    
    Just tell them that you do have a large circle of friends and that you
    will be sure to tell them about the service that you have received.
    Then put a note here that says something like, "Please contact me
    directly about this matter." 
    
    This will keep the notes police happy. :-)
    
            Marty Sasaki

    I'm the author of the note.  I'm in St. Louis, so even if I chose to
    play up the DEC notes file angle it wouldn't mean anything.  So
    consider that issue closed.
    
    Fixing the frame doesn't appear to be an option, so the advice seems to
    be to ask for (demand) a new frame.  
    
    I'll probably go see the owner this weekend.  What really sucks is that
    two of his employees have given me outstanding service, are avid
    mountain bikers who have gone out of their way to call me for training 
    rides, races, etc.   I'm trying to balance how much of a stink to make
    given that they've treated me well in the past.
    
    The shop doesn't sell Bridgestone bikes so who knows what they'll say
    about replacing the frame.  
    
    I'll see how it goes.
    
    Tom 
    
    

Greetings

As something of a consumer's rights failure, I don't have any
good advise for this situation. I took a course called "Consumer and 
the Law" the instructor said that the first best thing to do is to 
bring the problem to the store's attention. We consumers always assume 
the worst reaction and generally are scared away from getting the 
store to fix the problem. The rest of the procedures are for after 
the store has proven that they are intransagent. I wouldn't be 
embarrased to expect the store to replace the frame, after all the
frame was fine before they touched it! 

Tragically I probably wouldn't pursue one of these problems, but 
I certianly wouldn't give them anymore of my buisness which is always 
our (us consumers) best defense.

Fred Mudgett 

    I went in and talked to the owner Saturday.  Here's what we agreed on:
    
    - he refunded the cost of the repair that I originally took it in for
      (headset replacement)
    
    - they're having a local framebuilder/repairer/painter do a cosmetic
      repair on the dent (fill the dent, paint the top tube)
    
    - if the frame ever fails, they'll treat it as they would a warranty
      claim and replace it with a comparable frame on a pro-rated basis.
    
    I'm satisfied with this arrangement.  I prefer my frame, dented or not,
    to any of the brands they could have replaced it with.  I was concerned
    with how it looked so that if I ever decide to sell it, it won't scare
    people off.  
    
    In the meantime I've got five races in the next two months so I'll keep 
    riding the sh** out of it and see what happens.
    
    Tom

re: I was concerned with how it looked so that if I ever decide to sell it, it 
    won't scare people off.  

Remind me to not buy this bike if it is ever for sale.  Talk about unethical...

>Remind me to not buy this bike if it is ever for sale.  Talk about unethical...

Actually, from the sounds of it the ding should have no effect on 
durability or the handling of the bike. Our shop sold a new bike that 
recieved a similar ding in shipping to a guy we knew - we gave him $25 
off the new price and he never mentioned having any kind of problem. He 
was a pretty substantial fellow, too. Sounds like the shop owner did 
pretty well for you.

As suggested previously, it would be nice if you DO sell it someday to 
mention that it had been repaired / painted, in case potential buyers 
have a problem with it....
                                          ken

    Re: .9  If I do decide to sell it, it's going to be after another 1000
    miles of off-road riding.  If I can't break it by then, I'd have no
    qualms about representing it as a sound frame, assuming it stands up to
    a close inspection not just of the top tube but everywhere.
    
    And I'd also have no concerns in telling a potential buyer of the dent
    and its repair.
    
    So spare me the unethical b.s., and consider yourself reminded not to
    ever buy this bike.
    
    Tom

    Well, I just ran into my first problem with the bike.  And I found out
    the hard way that the folks I bought the bike from weren't the right
    people to take it to for service.
    
    I brought the bike in for what I thought was a routine adjustment.  I
    was having a bit of trouble getting it to shift down into the lowest
    gear in the front.  It would go in eventually, but I was having to use
    more force on the thumb shifter than I thought was normal, and the
    chain would spend a few seconds rubbing against the derailler before it
    finally shifted down.  The inner adjustment screw on the derailler was
    already out to its limit, so I decided I'd better have the shop take a
    look at it.  The owner assured me it was a simple cable adjustment, and
    that I could pick it up on Monday.
    
    So Monday, when I picked up the bike, I noticed that the derailler
    cable was frayed where it was screwed into the derailler.  I pointed it
    out to the owner, but he assured me that it was OK.  So off I went for
    my evening ride.
    
    Now, not only hadn't they fixed the problem, but now I had a whole new
    one to worry about ... the rear gears were spontaneously popping down
    to the next lowest gear, in a most violent fashion.  Not only was it
    disconcerting, but I can't imagine that the violent unloading/loading
    on those gears is doing them any good.  So yesterday morning I brought
    the bike back in and insisted that they fix the rear derailler problem,
    replace the frayed cable, and fix the problem I brought the bike to
    them in the first place for.
    
    The first thing he tried to tell me was that I wasn't using the bike
    properly.  He said I wasn't supposed to use the front derailler at all
    while riding ... that I was supposed to decide what kind of terrain I'd
    be riding in, set the front gears, and leave them alone while riding,
    shifting only the rear gears.  When I told him that I had a real hard
    time buying that line of B.S. he got real defensive and tried to
    impress me with the number of years he's been in business and that I'm
    the first dissatisfied customer he's ever had.  I told him to just fix
    the bike and that'd satisfy me.
    
    When I picked it up yesterday, the cable had been replaced, and it
    looked like they fixed the front derailler problem by removing the
    spacers between the large and middle gears (?!).  He said they'd
    adjusted the rear derailler and test rode the bike, and that it was
    fine.  So off I went for my evening ride ...
    
    Well, the rear shifting problem is still there.  And now the front
    derailler is terrible.  It shifts into the lower gear OK, but when I
    shift from the middle to the top gear the chain against the derailler
    makes this terrible grinding noise, and if I'm not careful I throw the
    chain right over the gear (I found this out the hard way).  It looks
    like he bent the derailler in a way it wasn't meant to bend, and the
    shifting isn't at all smooth like it used to be.
    
    So today I've got to find another bike shop to fix all these problems
    and make this bike work right again.  Someone here at work suggested I
    take it to Fritz's in W. Boylston.  Any comments or recommendations ???
    I'll probably take it there at lunch time.  I really don't care what it
    takes ... a new derailler if that's necessary.  But I really liked the
    way this bike shifted before all this started, and I want it to be like
    that again.
    
    In the meantime, I'm planning to write letters to Schwinn and to the
    Better Business Bureau about this other shop.  Those folks butchered my
    bike, and they shouldn't be allowed to just get away with it.  I
    realize I can't mention who it is in here, but any of you who plan on
    buying or getting a bike serviced in the Marlboro/Northboro/Shrewsbury
    area can send me E-mail and I'll tell you who it was so you can avoid
    this kind of pain for yourselves.  I know next to nothing about bikes,
    but even I could tell these folks didn't know what they were doing.
    
    Hopefully I can be back on the road and happy in a coupla days.
    
    ... Bob
    

	Hi Bob......

	Ain't it hell being a complete novice in a new
	sport!

	Anyway although they are a little far away, Chelmsford
	Cyclery does a very good job, and it does carry
	and service Schwinn..

	-dick

    If the  bike was a Schwinn, call Schwinn directly. They used to be
    very  good about helping out customers, and, while I haven't dealt
    with  them in a long while, I have no reason to think that they've
    changed this policy.

--David

    Well my participation in this Notes conference has already paid off.
    
    On the advice of someone who read my note this morning, and also of
    a fellow Noter who I work with, I took the bike to Landry's, in 
    Westboro.  The technician fixed the bike while I waited, explained 
    every step of the process, and had me take it for a test drive in the
    parking lot before I left.  The thing's shifting smooth as can be.
    
    Basically, the reason for the front derailler jamming was that they had
    pushed it down so that it was rubbing against the outer gear.  There was
    considerable wear to both derailler and gear.  I had him replace the
    derailler with a Shimano Deore LX ... an upgrade I was considering
    anyway.  He also swaged the new cable, which had not been done at the
    other shop, and realigned the gears to spec.  The rear derailler was a
    simple cable adjustment.  While he had the bike on the rack I had him
    raise the handlebars slightly. I hadn't done it myself because it 
    required an adjustment to the front brake cable, which he told me was
    improperly routed in the first place.
    
    While I was there I purchased a pair of padded gloves and padded shorts,
    which are on sale at the moment.  Walked out of there feeling like I
    had dealt with folks who knew what they were doing, who took the time
    to educate me about my bike, and who assured me that their work was
    guaranteed, and not to hesitate to come back if there was anything I
    wasn't happy with.  What a big difference from that other shop ... ;^)
    
    Can't wait to get home tonite and go put a few more miles on it now.
    
    ... Bob
    

>================================================================================
>Note 1813.15                The shop injured my bike                    15 of 15
>BOOKS::BAILEYB "Let my inspiration flow ..."         30 lines   7-AUG-1991 14:09
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  -< on the road again ... (already) ... ;^) >-
>
>    which are on sale at the moment.  Walked out of there feeling like I
>    had dealt with folks who knew what they were doing, who took the time
>    to educate me about my bike, and who assured me that their work was
>    guaranteed, and not to hesitate to come back if there was anything I
>    wasn't happy with.  What a big difference from that other shop ... ;^)
>    
>    ... Bob
>    
Hey Bob,

I'm glad it's all worked out so well. This helps reaffirm my belief that when
you're buying a bike there are three main things to sort out. 

Number ONE is to find a good shop to deal with. This means not only reasonable
prices, but excellent after-sales service. Again, this is the result of
experiences like yours. I used to shop around to find the most bike for the
money and figure I could go to some other shop for service. Not any more. Now,
I find the shop I want to deal with and figure out what bike they have that
suits my needs. Of course, this gets blown out of the water sometimes, but it
minimises the risks, especially for people newer to the sport. However, it
diminishes a little as you do more of your own maintenance.

Number two is to figure out how much you're willing to spend. Then, number
three is to sort out what you want to do with the bike. By the time you've done
that, you should be able to walk away feeling that you've gotten the bike you
want from a shop you are happy to fund.

Best of luck with your new source of expenses!

Tim