Conference noted::bicycle

    I agree with .1; although I have a touring bike, I had the same
    problem with saddle soreness.  Getting some good riding shorts and
    a Advocet Gelflex seat made a tremendous difference!  I can now
    ride for hours with no problems.
    
    Worked for me...
    
    Denis

    Thanks for the info.  I'll keep on peddaling and see if it improves
    any.
    
    
    A.

My bottom side eventually got used to the saddle then a new problem has
recently cropped up. My lower back and groin muscles are starting to 
fall asleep after about 10-12 miles of hard riding. I counter by standing
up on all the hills and even the flats when it gets real bad. Has anyone
encountered this? Any ideas on how to cure it? I'm not sure its realated
to the saddle, I am planning a visit to the orthepedist soon.

By the way, I use the sinthetic (sp?) chamoix cloth. It doesn't get hard
or need any saddle creams. Much easier on the back side.


Mano

    Also, make sure the position of your saddle is correct. Once you
    have it set at the right height check the angle of tilt. It should
    be level.
    
    Jonathan

    Its definitely true that you get used to it.  I bought my first
    bike last year and was in a lot of pain for the first month or
    more.  However, even though I'd been using good cycling shorts
    from the start I discovered that even after the initial soreness
    went away that rides of more than 3 hours or so would get quite
    painful.  The remedy was realizing that the saddle that came with 
    my bike (Trek 1000) was a rock. I replaced it with a Turbo and 
    its been fine since.  So, I wouldn't necessarily just suffer on
    the assumption it will go away, check your saddle.  And as one of
    the other replies (.2?) suggested - do raise out of the saddle 
    just a teeny bit over bumps - it helps a lot over a long distance.

Re: 0

If you ride frequently, you can get used to nearly anything. A lot of 
folks who ride frequently swear by stiff, hard saddles like the Brooks 
Pro (which does break in with time). In my early days of riding, I used 
to ride those solid plastic saddles (can't remember the brand) for 100 
miles a day on tour with no soreness. However, if you ride infrequently, 
even a padded saddle will beat up on your behind when you aren't used to 
it. If you ride several X a week, you should be able to ride on that 
saddle FOR THAT DISTANCE pretty comfortably after 2 or 3 weeks. If that 
doesn't do it, consider one of the softer saddles. A word of warning, in 
that some of the padded saddles are considerable wider - sort of like an 
easy chair. These tend to bind and chafe the insides of your thighs and 
can be really painful. Narrow saddles seem best for most folks. Finally, 
the quality of padding on a padded saddle is important - it should be 
quite dense. The inch of pillow-stuffing foam you see on cheap bike 
saddles collapses immediately when you put weight on it, and you're back 
to sitting on the hard shell again....

                                                ken

I have a couple of comments about this. First about the saddle type. 
My wife was having lots of difficulty with soreness. She bought the 
Advocet Gel-Flex seat $29.00 from Nashbar. Worth it at twice the 
price....

She has a LOT less pain. As far as wide seats and chaffing and all 
that goes, the Advocet Gel-Flex comes in several styles depending on 
what kind of riding you do (i.e. ATB, or Touring etc.) and sex. They 
are designed to account for anatomical differences.

I used to have the crotch falling asleep problem. I fixed by doing two 
things. I figured out that my seat was tilted too far back. I figured 
it out last winter when I was using my wind trainer in the basement. 
All the problems are aggravated when using trainers because you spend 
long periods of time without standing out of the saddle. So, tilting 
the seat foreward helped a little. The other thing I did was to spend 
$19.95 on a well designed pair of strategically padded riding shorts. 
This has helped a lot.

I would say check the tilt on your seat. It seemed that when it was 
tilted too far back it cut the circulation off. 


JC

    	I dissagree with "you definitely get used to it".  After two
    years on regular bikes, it was a relief to get a recumbent. To me,
    that's the main benifit of recumbents: comfort!  That outweighs
    the poorer hill climbing, and the increased safety doesn't affect
    day-to-day use.  - Chris
    

    re .0	From your personal name  "ANGE"  I'd guess that you are
    female, if not then accept apology, hit next unseen, etc.
    
    	Else think seriously about a woman's saddle.  Its not just the
    obvious external anatomy thats different, the pelvic bone is wider.
    The points of contact between the saddle and the pelvic bone are
    farther apart for a woman than a man, i.e. women have to sit further
    back than men on the same saddle, but this creates other problems
    since women are proportionally shorter in the upper body and most
    frames are designed for male proportions (relatively shorter legs
    and longer upper body).  Women shouldn't expect to be comfortable
    on slim men's racing saddles, especially on a frame designed for
    men, etc.

    	Reg
    
    { I almost forgot (how COULD I ?) women are also Ahem, soffffffter.}

Unless you're rich there may be a lot of truth to the "you'll get used to it"
school of thought.  You can go to a bike shop or look at a catalog and see
several brands of seats but how do you know what's best?  You can ask someone 
else what they like but saddles are a very personal preference.  Once you buy 
a saddle and take it home it's yours.  

The only exception to the rule is Avocet which guarantees it's gelflex saddles 
for 30 days.  If you don't like it bring it back.  At least that was the case 
last year, is it still true?

When I put together my new bike last year I got an Avocet and like it, but 
then again the previous bike had a Super Turbo which I liked too.  I just 
bought the Avocet because it was new and different.  The only saddle that I've 
tried and not liked was the Concore (or whatever it's called) which has the 
high "fin" in back.  It doesn't allow much movement fore and back.

    
    re:.4
    
    
    
     I'm really amazed that no one has mentioned to you about checking
    the handle bar height in relation to your seat height. You may be
    having to lean over to far. Once you adjust the seat height/for/aft
    position then you'll need to adjust the handlebar height by taking
    a straight edge laying it on the saddle from the back to the front
    and extending over the handlebars,now anyone out there correct me
    if I'm wrong,but I believe there should be approx 2 inches of space
    between the straight edge and the stem. It might be more then 2
    inches,I'm not sure off the top of my head.....
    
      Maybe we'll get a rise out of someone else who knows.....
    
    
    
                            Tom M

    I don't know much about cycling yet, but if I adjusted my handle
    bars as you say, I wouldn't be able to sit up with my back straight
    and hold the tops of the handlebars because they'd be too low and
    I'd strain my back??  Sorry if I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
     I must admit, since I've had the bike I prefer this method of cycling.
     I can't seem to cycle like a racer would for long, because my back
    begins to ache.
    
    A.

.13>    I don't know much about cycling yet, but if I adjusted my handle
.13>    bars as you say, I wouldn't be able to sit up with my back straight
.13>    and hold the tops of the handlebars because they'd be too low and
.13>    I'd strain my back??  Sorry if I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
       
    The replies here do seem to be describing a racing set-up, but you did
    describe your bike as a racer... It's not as bad as it sounds, in fact,
    since you support the weight of your upper body with your arms. If you
    were to set your bars high, so you could sit up straight, you would
    experience a lot more wind resistance. 

.13>     I must admit, since I've had the bike I prefer this method of cycling.
.13>     I can't seem to cycle like a racer would for long, because my back
.13>    begins to ache.
    
    I think racing cyclists are holding the tops of the bars, or the brake
    hoods, most of the time. It's only when they're at the front of the
    pack or on a lone break that they get down on the drops to minimise
    wind resistance. Have a look at the Tour de France coverage on Channnel
    4 (6.30 - 7.00pm all this week) to see what I mean.
     
    Is your behind getting any better?
    
    Rod

If you want to talk about handle bar placement than you should also 
consider the distance for the saddle to the handlebars. This distance 
can have a lot of effect on back pain.


The general rule of thumb is to check it in the riding position with 
your hands on the drop portion of the handle bars. The check is to 
eyeball the front hub while in this position. You either need to be 
riding at this point or have some one hold the bike. When you look at 
the hub, the upper horisontal part of the handle bar should be directly 
over the hub.  


JC

    re .15
    
    Well, I have the Trek 620, a touring bike, and when I look past
    the horizontal section of the handle bars, I see a good one inch
    of space in front of the handlebars to the spindle...  I'm not sure
    if that's because I have a much longer wheelbase, due to the design
    of the bike, or what, although I sometimes feel as if my handlebar
    stem is *too long*, anyway.  (I'm thinking about changing it, but
    it's a real pain, as I'd have to change the spenco grips, and then
    the stem, and might as well change the cables on the brakes, as well,
    and then it becomes a major thing, and I really am doing alright
    on the bike, anyway.... :^)
    
    Another "cute trick" to determine if the seat is properly adjusted
    in terms of fore/back distance is to place your elbow immediately
    in front of the "nose" of the seat, and your middle finger should
    end immediately over the horizontal section of the handlebars. 
    (Mine has an extra inch of stem, and I can feel it...)

    As for the sore ass problem - make sure you also "massage" those
    muscles while you ride.  I don't mean you have to make it obvious;
    just standing up in the saddle, and alternately squeezing and relaxing
    the muscles should help a lot...
    
    Bill.

    re .16  Adjust seat fore/aft postion by using your forearm to the
    handlebar.
    
    I disagree with this method, all that tells you is how long a forearm
    you have. Your seat fore/aft position should be set so your feet
    are in proper position to the pedals, not to accomodate distance
    to the handlebars.  A recommended method is:
    
    1. Tie a weight to a piece of string
    
    2. Get on your bike and get into a comfortable position on your
    saddle.  Move one of your feet to the three o'clock position.
    Let the string hang from the the top of your patella? (front of your 
    lower leg) where it meets your knee joint.  The string
    should go directly through the ball of your foot then through the
    center of the pedal axle.  It is more difficult if you are not using
    cleated shoes.  Move the saddle fore/aft till it is centered. 
    
    
    steve
                      

    > The string should go directly through the ball of your foot <
    
    How do you get the string through you shoe?

    re: .17
    
    The "rule of thumb" measurement that .16 was describing was not
    meant to be a seat fore/aft adjustment. It is a stem sizing
    measurement.  About as accurate as any.....
    
    Stew

    I recently bought a mountain bike and have had problems with my
    hands falling asleep.  This happens after about a half hour of ridding.
    

    	First and easiest thing to do is get a good pair of cycling
    	gloves.
    
    	There are other notes and responses in this conference that
    	deal with the problem you mentioned.
    
    	Scott

    RE:.17
    
    I disagree with a couple of the details of the process you describe
    for setting saddle fore-aft adjustment using a string and weight.
    
    The string should be dangled from a position roughly at the >back<
    of the patella (kneecap).  This location is pretty easy to estimate
    on a bent leg.
    
    While the string should fall directly over the pedal spindle of
    the forward foot, the location of the ball of the foot directly
    above the pedal spindle is a seperate setting.  Cleats should be
    adjusted so that the ball of the foot is located directly above
    or just behind (up to 1" behind) the pedal spindle.  This setting
    is based on personal preference and riding style, and shouldn't
    effect saddle placement.
    
    Jim