Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Re: -.1
    
    I gotta say this, but in addition to biking I also hike.  
    
    There is already enough environmental damage due to *hikers* on
    most hiking trails (particularly those in parks where a lot of people
    use them).
    
    These trails do not need knobby tires to do even further damage.
     
    Stick to dirt roads, please.
    
    

    You might keep a low profile on the Wachusett Reservoir roads.  On my
    side of the reservoir, the old signs forbade bicycles, and the new
    signs forbid "Anything which may damage the property of the
    commonwealth"(???).  If they decide that you're wrong, the fines may be
    hefty. 
    
    The only paved parking area along rt. 31 has a map showing which trails
    are for hiking, skiing, snowmobiles, dirt bikes...  Motorized vehicles
    are forbidden on the hiking trails.  I would expect bicycles to be
    classified the same.  I'm fairly certain you wouldn't want to ride up
    the trail leading to the climbing cliffs, which has a bad erosion
    problem, and is so steep that I work hard just walking up. 
    
    Hope someone else can give you useful info.
    
    Glen

    re: .1 hiking trails are for hiking 
    
    I don't like being thrown in the same category as dirt motorcycles.
    Bicycles get traction the same way as hiking boots and are as noisy.
    ATB's do not propel themselves with the reactive force of throwing
    dirt backwards.(Nobody *I* know is that strong and fast anyway:-).
    
    I feel *heavily* traveled hiking trails should be avoided for the same
    reason as I avoid "bicycle" trails overrun with foot traffic.(now that
    would be an interesting ban:-))  Courteously passing foot traffic
    is important, and some trails may be too crowded to keep any pace
    going.
    
    Out west here, bicycles are banned from any wilderness area. You
    have to be willing to put up with the noise and dust of dirt razzers
    which are considered equivalent.  I find scheduling my ATB rides
    for early Saturday morning helps.  
    
    Trail impact and aesthetic impact are the only reasons I have been
    able to get out of Rangers etc for banning bicycles.  Somehow I
    don't see the difference between a hiker with waffled boots and
    a 60 pound high tech tubing and accessoried out backpack and a biker
    with waffle tires and 40 pounds of high tech tubing and accessories.
    Unless hikers are restricted to moccasins, cotton/wool clothes, and
    day packs I think it all sounds like simple discrimination in favor
    of a special interest group.
    
    Thom
    (Who also hikes and is still looking for a place to mountain bike
    with out putting up with noise, dust, or risk of arrest.)         
      

    re .3	There are categories and sub categories.  I too resent
    being grouped with "dirt motorcycles", even when riding my motorcycles
    off road.  I too do *NOT* propel myself forward with the reactive
    force of throwing dirt backwards, even when riding the
    aforementioned..,etc.  I too try to not hack up the trail when hiking
    in boots.  The environment can tolerate almost any kind of access,
    four wheel drive trucks don't *HAVE TO* carve up the ground any
    more than hooves.  Traction doesn't come from spinning ones wheels,
    quite the reverse.  The intelligent solution lies in responsible
    use, not in the exclusion of particular groups on the grounds that
    their method of propulsion, or some of their members, could do
    environmental damage.  You're right about the special interest groups,
    the Sierra Club is pretty much exclusively foot travellers.
    
    	Reg
    

    You might consider Crested Butte for a vacation.  It is really a
    great fat tire area.  I believe they have a fat tire week, full
    of misc events in the later part of summer.  Info can be obtained
    by calling the chamber of commerce.
    
    If you decide to do it, you want to be in good condition.  The air
    tends to get thin above 9000 feet.
    

    On route 110 in near the West Boylston/Clinton line I have seen
    signs within the MDC property for skimobiling.  I have also
    seen signs saying no ALL TERRAIN VEHICLES, I am assuming they
    mean motorized vehicles.  
    
    Most ATB riding takes place in lower terrain, where vegetation
    is more durable and less venerable to erosion.  I believe less
    damage is done by and ATB rider at lower elevation that a
    hiker above the tree line.
    
    Hikers, skiiers, bikers have a lot more to worry about our
    environment than the enviromental damage we are all doing.
    Acid rain, human development, and general human neglect for
    our environment is doing far more damage.
    
    It's funny, most outdoor people want society to become
    more appreciative of the outdoors and doing outdoor activities,
    but then we complain that the environment is being ruined
    by these activities.
    
    Let's not stop people from enjoying the outdoors.
    
    steve
      
    

First, a comment on the subject:

Though not particularly close by, I understand the Shawangunk (sp?) 
Mountains in New York are a good place to mountain bike.  If you were
interested in taking some vacation, it might be worth it to try them out.
Bicycling magazine had an article on them last year, and I sent in for
some more info.  Didn't get around to going, though.

Now, a couple of cents worth in the "other" issue"

For some background, I have been an off road motorcyclist, and am currently 
a mountain biker and a hiker/backpacker.  So I have had several perspectives
on backcountry usage.  

There's more to "it" than how much impact a hiker has vs. how much impact
a mountain biker has.  Don't forget that a mountain biker can cover much
more territory in the same amount of time, so the total effect is greater.
With motorized vehicles...well, throw in another order of magnitude.

And don't discount the impact of chromoly against flesh and bone, either.
Rough trails shared by bikers and hikers are accidents waiting to happen.
Pack-laden "things", be they people or bikes, are tougher to control in
a tight situation such as blind corners or hard switchbacks.

.jim

    In eastern Mass there is the Middlesex Fells, Sometimes called the
    Medford Woods.  There are a number of trails both narrow and wide
    through this forrest (sp?).  The only place you can't go is down
    to the Winchester public water supply.  For some viewpoints on clear
    early spring days you can see the Atlantic
    
    Joe

    Hi - 
    
    I know this is awfully late to be replying to your June note, but
    nonetheless you might be considering a winter vacation in the West.
     If so, may I suggest some desert biking?  Mountain bikes are allowed
    on the roads (both maintained and unmaintained) in Death Valley,
    Joshua Tree and Anza Borrego national monuments.  Yes, you will
    have to put up with 4WD vehicles, but if you're vacationing here
    it should not be a problem, as you can ride during the week.  I
    personally spent 4 days two weeks ago bicycle camping in Joshua
    Tree and never saw another person, let alone any cars.
    
    If you do ever decide to visit the desert on your bike, I recommend
    the fattest tires you can find and low tire pressure (around 35
    psi).  Also, remember you have to carry a LOT of water!  The other
    advice is not to attempt the desert except during the winter months,
    for obvious reasons.
    
    I wonder if riding in the snow is like riding in  the sand?
    
    Linda
    

re:< Note 351.9 by SRFSUP::KROTENKO >
                              -< Try the Desert! >-


Yep, when I worked on a dude ranch outside Tucson, AZ I rode the horse
trails on my touring bike. It was a blast, I wish I woulda had
a mountain bike at the time but that was a while ago..sigh.. I had to
stop when the rattle snakes came out tho'. And also watch out for cacti,
I ran into one and it wasn't pretty.

Jenna

    Anyone other than me headed to Jim Thorpe, PA for the annual east
    coast MTB Festival?  If so, let me know.  If interested in attending
    and would like more info, I'll start a seperate note.
    
    mh

How about getting this note started up again?  Let's keep entries related
to the subject of places to ride mountain bikes, and try to suppress the 
editorial commentary that sidetracked this note in the first place.

To get things rolling, here are a couple of places in NH:

	- Mine Falls park, behind Nashua, NH High School.  Good for
		an hour or so of pleasant riding.  Not particularly
		challenging.

	- Bear Brook State Park, north of Manchester somewhere(?)
		Extensive trails, maps, variety of riding conditions,
		from "carry it" to dirt roads.

How about ski areas?  Does anyone know of any cross country ski areas that
permit mountain bikes in the warmer months?

.jim

I'm told that Pawtuckaway State Park is Mountain Biker Heaven.  I have
no personal experience there, though.

ed

    Few places that I have had fun recently:
    
    1.  Lancaster town forest - Rt 70 (Lunenburg Rd)
        Not to difficult, some variety, riding along the Nashua waterway
        is pretty.  Allow an hour or two and be prepared to get a little
        bit lost.
    
    2.  Trout Brook Forest - Holden MA - Manning St. - Technical trails
        well marked, can do in an hour or so.
    
    3.  Rutland St Part - Rt 122A Rutland MA - Large area, lot of
        diversity,  interesting (old WWII prison ruins), mainly dirt
        roads,  THE POWER LINES ARE FUN!!!, many motorcyles however.
    
    steve
     

    
    	Any place that has "official" snowmobile trails is good.
    	During the off season time for the snowmobiles, they seem
    	quite well-suited for mountain bikes. The State Department
    	of Parks and Recreation, or some such thing, could probably
    	supply you with lots of maps and stuff.
    
    							       Mike
    

    On the subject of where to go mountain biking:  does anyone have
    any spots that they know of around the Boston area.  I'm willing
    to ride say 5-15 miles out of the city just to jump into the mud.
    I've got two friends who work at Belmont WheelWorks and we usually
    go out mountain bike riding on Mondays (for those interested). 
    We usually go right there.  There's a exercise trail (which we use
    only to get to where we are headed) that leads to a small park,
    if you want to call it that.  After crossing a brook there is a
    bunch of dirt-bike trails that we ride on.  And there is also a
    very large hill (this is by the 'Looney hotel' in Belmont) with
    a water tower on top.  This hill is a ball to come down (just make
    sure you have a helmet on before going down it, because of a lot
    of loose rocks).
    
    
    So does anyone else know of a good spot around the outer limits
    of Boston???

    I used to ride around those trails in Belmont on my Fuji, when
    it had the cyclocross tires on it.  I even climbed the watertower
    hill.  After a couple of times, though, it got dull -- there just
    isn't that much open land nearby.  I also think I'd avoid the place
    on the weekends with the prevalence of motorcycles in the area.
    Also, don't yield to the temptation to ride the exercise trail 
    near McClean Hospital (accross the street) -- it could really
    screw things up for the people who work out there. [Adjacent to
    it, however, is a series of fire roads that start on Pleasent
    Street (Rt. 60) near the Chrysler dealer, and head up the hill
    to McClean -- there's not a whole lot there, but it's something.]

    Try the Middlesex Fells, Medford Woods area.  This is a large wooded
    conservation area just north of Medford center on both sides of
    Route 93.  The are a lot of good trails and forest roads running
    through the area.
    
    Joe

    Just in case there is anyone else out there in the Reading/Basingstoke
    area (in England)...........
    
    
    Try Bramshill Forest - lots of nice trails ranging from two inch
    wide tracks right up to ones large enough for trucks to move lumber.
    A great place to go (not to many people) but after about three months
    of weekend riding I got a little bored, so next try ........
    
    Crowthorne wood - like Bramshill but about 10 times bigger - absolutely
    brilliant (I get lost nearly every weekend), hardly any other people
    or horses (but please be polite to the ones you meet - I'd like
    to keep riding there !!!).
    
    If anybody wants further info then mail me I will be pleased to
    fill you in on all the details.
    
    Paul

    Also in southern NH, you could try Miller State Park. It's all
    proper road, so not much dirt to get your tires into! Still it's
    fairly steep, so gives you plenty of hill-climbing practice.
    
    Another advantage is sheer pose-value! There are lots of people
    around to see you show off your new bike, and climbing prowess!
    
    Ouch! Those rims get hot on the way down!
    
    Have fun,
    
    	d:){=| Dave.

    Just a note to say that I read in a mountain bike book that
    Massachusetts has a very liberal mountain bike policy at the moment.
    Definitely welcome on all fire roads in state parks and forests. I've
    forgotten the specific wording but it was pretty generous. So I am
    being extra polite so as not to lose the access. I got my bike this
    winter, so I haven't done much exploring yet, but I had a few ideas to
    contribute here. 
    
    I've been studying the U.S. geological survey maps in search of
    mountain bike possibilities. These are available at the Map shop in
    Harvard Square (and probably form the government too). These cover a
    small area but are pretty thorough. 
    
    I think that abandoned rail road grades look like easy going, and a
    good place for us beginners to start. There are several here in
    Franklin that look like fun. I think there is also a group called RAILS
    TO TRAILS that is a bike advocacy group trying to promote this idea. I
    think they also have maps. I don't know if they plan on paving for road
    bikes or just leaving them to mountain bikers. 
    
    The Franklin state forest has some trails, these seem to be used by
    motorcycles? snowmobile? or maybe four wheel drive vehicles? I
    couldn't identify the tread, but definitely not my gentle mountain
    bike. We were biking up there in winter, and had to turn back because
    the tracks left by the motorized vehicles were filled with ice. On the
    way back I had trouble finding my own tread marks except in the snow! So I
    think the environmental excuses are pretty lame. I think that these
    trails will be a good place to check out later in the season. 
     

    Try Townsend State Forest off of Rt. 13. Take the left after the
    Townsend Police Dept. and park in the big dirt lot just down the road. 
    In the forest you'll find many trails varying from tight singletrack to
    open fire roads. Be careful not to get lost because the trails lead up
    into New Hampshire. Good luck 

    We took up the suggestion in an earlier NEMBA issue and rode Townsend
    this weekend.  We did close to 13 miles and rode very little of the
    same terrain over again.  We ended up North and East of Fessenden Hill
    Rd. somehow.  We were essentially lost :-).  We popped out into a
    small subdivision and asked some folks where we were.  Brookline NH as
    it turned out.  Finally got our bearings and the navigating got better. 
    Not too challenging especially south of Dudley Rd. and behind the
    middle school.  Some moderate climbing North of Dudley Rd. but we
    encountered nothing really grueling.  We did find an a couple of 
    intersting bits of singletrack going downhill.  I imagine if you rode
    in the opposite direction it would be very challenging or unrideable in
    a few spots.  
    
    The terrain is mostly double track and jeep trails.  Relatively little
    single track from what we saw.  A good place for a fast ride through the
    woods or someone with a new bike getting used to it.  Find the map in
    one of the issue of the NEMBA newsletter with the Douglas State Forest
    ride summary.  It is fairly accurate though I suspect not complete :-).   
    There is also some more terrain across Rt 13 which is not mapped out.
    
    The other nice thing about the area was with the exception of one other 
    rider, we were the only ones back there on Sunday.  We did encounter one 
    dirt bike and a few kids strolling around but that was close to the
    school only.    
    
    Brian

    Conference $user2:[mcgowan]mtb
    Check out the "MA Mountainbiking" note.
    

    How do you access it?  I tried OPEN/NONO ENQUE::$user2:[mcgowan]mtb and
    got an error message for insufficient privelege.
    
    Brian

    Ooops.  Sorry 'bout that.  You can access it now.

    
    For a very challenging MB ride, there is very pretty place I take my
    horse (and my hubby follows on his MB)  It's called Mt. Pisca - it's in
    Berlin, MA off RT62.
    
    The terrian is very hilly (not for the beginner) and a few areas are
    washed out - but most of it is very very nice.  There are 3 look outs
    where on a clear day you can see the Pru in Boston and you can look
    over Northboro.
    
    There is over 80 acres to travel
    
    Directions:
    
    rt496 to the rt62 exit (exit #26) at ramp go Left into Berlin.  At
    blinking yellow light (before fire station) take a Left then at the
    fork go Right onto Linden Street.
    
    About 1mi up on the left is a dirt pull off.  Park there and either
    take the trail from there or walk up about 10feet (around a bad cornor)
    and take the next trail on your Left.
    
    Louisa

    I ride there also!!  I live in Northboro and it is real convenient. 
    The overlooks are great and some of the hills are more than
    challenging!  There are trails created by and predominately maintained
    by ATVs.  It is sort of like narrow double track in these areas.  There
    is also some single track.  All the trails have some variety from fast
    to boulder fields to technical.  I would recommend it for intermediate
    riders and above (I would not take a pure beginner there.)  
    
    I hope to see you out there some day!
    Rick
    

    
    Rick, if you see a chestnut horse and a grey horse and riders w/ purple
    helmuts - that's me!  (the one w/the helmut) :-) tee-hee
    
    Lou

	We checked out the Mt. Pisgah area yesterday. We rode out to the 
	trailhead on Linden St (about a 25 minute ride), and sort of randomly 
	selected trails until we met a guy who knew the area. He took us up 
	past the two overlooks, and showed us a trail that ends on Brewer St 
	(not far from the I-290 overpass). This trailhead is only an 8 minute
	ride from our house 8^). 
	
	Thanks a bunch for posting info about this place. Great trails, with 
	some good climbs. The overlooks are real nice, too. We ride past there 
	on road bikes all the time but never knew about it. 

	/ken

    ...also, the nearby aquaduct can take you all the way to inside of 495
    and back if your butt lasts that long (don't freak when crossing the
    Assabet; long drop).
    

    
    Glad you checked out Mt. Pisqah and liked it :-)
    
    Louisa