Conference noted::bicycle

    Sorry, that's an RST 2 GT...

    
    Chip, is it called RST because if has an RST shock on it?
          I've seen some mail order RST bikes. 
          If you have a good budget, (I know you are not shy when it comes
          to road bikes) Litespeed has some good Ti frames which you can
          build on (best prices for Ti I've seen anywhere).
          Then there is the Grateful Dead frame design from (I think its
          a Gary Fisher) at Buchikas. The bike looks very pretty, but
          it has mid-level components. 
    
          I've been shopping around too, with skis, bikes and cats one 
          can never have too many.  There are so many nice bikes around
          that I think speaking for me, I would find a frame that I like
          and go with the componants that I like. 
    
    Shaw
           

    It is the RST (see .1) by Gary Turner (GT). Believe me, I thought
    of a MERLIN (of course). Building one is fun, but expensive and
    I'm trying to stay within a prie range. The shocks on the RST 2 
    are Judy XC's...
    
    I'm going to ride this bike tomorrow along with the Y22 (TREK) and
    a couple of Proflexes...
    
    Should have a new MB by Saturday!
    
    Chip

    
    
    Chip,  I tried the Y22, it felt a bit hollow inside, (if that makes 
           sense, gotta ride it). A few others to try are the top of the 
           line Kona's , Voodoo and Bontragers, you can't go wrong
           with Judy's. Good luck shopping, I'll be looking in here to 
           see what you ended up with ;-)
    
    Shaw

    thanks, Shaw. I'm hoping to be able to post that very information
    first thing Monday morning! :-)
    
    I have narrowed my considerations to Proflex, Y22 (Trek) or the
    GT...
    
    Chip

Chip,

IMHO,  I went to Mt Snow nationals  and just raced at Bear Brook.  For 
Cross Country,  the only full suspension models in the expert class are the 
proflex 855 and the Trek Y bike (22 or 33).  This is because they are 
"fully active" designs.   Bikes like the GT RTS series and AMP bikes are 
not fully active...the rear shock is locked whenever you load up the 
transmission.  

For example, powering up a hill.  The proflex/trek bikes are engineered so 
that the rear shock helps keep the rear wheel glued to the ground by 
absorbing roots, rocks etc.  Less of a chance of slipping traction

Non active bikes "bounce" off of these obstacles, many times causing loss 
of traction. 

If you like the feel of a rigid bike while climbing, then the RTS is a good 
choice.   If you want a compliant rear wheel when climbing the 855 or Y 
bike is better.   For cross country purposes (from what I saw at the 
races), the Proflex far outnumbered the Trek.   The Proflex costs a heck of 
a lot less also.

You can't lose with either bike.

mike

    
    
    Mike, how much less does the proflex cost?  I thought the Y22 was 
         a great price, at $1800.00 Most other bikes I've tested 
         in that price range, were hard tails. or if fully suspended 
         they mediocre components. 
         There is a bike shop (at Loon) were I do a lot of my mountain 
         biking that has the 855 for sale/demo, but I never cared to 
         price'em or ride them as I don't find the Girvin forks 
         very attractive. For some reason I also thought the 855 would be
         $2000+
    
    Shaw

    Thanks Mike... The prices I've seen were all idential...
    
    The Y22 was priced at $2k and the Proflex 855 was at $1700.00.
    The GT went for almost $2400.00! 
    
    I sure I'm gonna love the Y22...
    
    Chip

    
    
    Chip, Gus international has the Y22 for $1800.00. I am 
        looking at bikes in the same price range, There are  four bikes
        that I'm attracted too, and the Y22 is one of them. 
        
        Please right up a review, when you take it on some climbs and 
        fast Xcountry rides. 
    
    Shaw

    Shaw, will do... BTW, (now that my horse is out of the barn) where
    is Gus International...
    
    Goodale's and Gamache's prices were dead-nut on each other.
    
    Chip

    
    Chip, Gus International is on Root 1 in Hampton NH. original owner
          was Gus many years ago, when John bought if from him he never
          changed the name. If you ever go up that way it is a purple 
          building on the right. John, know quite a few of the folks in
          here , including Mr. Ed Fisher ;-) 
          He has some bikes worth seeing. Including an aniversary edition
          road bike with old campy stuff (collector's item) for $7000.00/bo
          (I think the frame is a Bianchi, I'm not sure though)
         I have always got great deals from John, when he rings up my 
         purchases every item that he rings up is always less than what 
         the discounted price on the sticker is. He himself is a 
         strictly road biker, but has many real nice MTBs also, like the 
         Y22-33 and Voodoo, Bontrager, Kona...
    
    Shaw

    
    
      As an Proflex 854 owner (and a Merlin road bike owner) I can say
    you'll be happy with the 855. I can say that but it -  might not be true
    ; and this is an unbiased opinion :-).
    
     An area of concern you might have is the rear suspension. Proflex
    makes different densities of elastomers and I found the ones in my
    off the floor 854 where too soft. I didnt notice this right away and
    had to shell out the extra bucks later for denser ones.
    
     Also remember the Vector fork comes with its own stem in I think only
    2 lengths so if you cant fit theres not many options.
    
     If you've read the reviews you'll see the Proflex bikes continually 
    rate high in the "value per dollar" class.
    
    
    I'd sure like to here your analysis of how the different bikes you test
    ride stack up. The Trek Y series sure is getting a lot of press.
    
     -regards
     Wayne V
    

    Well Wayne, I went with the Y22. I didn't have the extra $-K for
    the Y33 :-)... Besides, I liked the Ice Red color much more than
    that bleah blue (ya right).
    
    I thought the Proflex and the GT rode very well. One thing I really
    didn't like about the Proflex Girvin (sp?) shock was the "diving"
    sensation I felt when the shock was radically depressing (front).
    It felt like the whole bike (and me) was moving forward.
    
    All 3 bikes handled very well. I twisted and "hard" cornered all of them
    with no noticable flex from the rear boom/sway arms. They were equally
    comfortable in the "absorbancy" area. I did feel a better fit on the
    Y22. I also felt more comfortable climbing on the Y22. I rode the
    Proflex and the Y22 up a very steep grade (approx 20 degrees).
    Initially, the Y22 "squatted" more than I liked with every pedal
    stroke. I brought it back and whined about it. Then took the Proflex
    out. When I came back they asked me to try out the Y22. They had pumped
    more air into the FOX shock. It felt great and I didn't feel any loss
    in its ability to soak up road/curb/pothole shock.
    
    The jury is still out on the grip shifters however (Y22). I am v-e-r-y
    used to the rapid fires. I am giving them a chance. I can always dump
    them after a season if I don't grow to like them. I can't see myself
    ever accidentally shifting with these. I am the the kind of rider that 
    twists the grips around a few times on a ride. They are stiff enough
    so that won't happen. I did notice that the grip shifters do not 
    shift as crisply as the rapids do, but I need to ride more.
    
    Maybe Tomac or Tinker might be able to supply much more in the way of
    an editorial, but this neophyte can't. I may be able to do a supplement
    to this after a few hundred miles.
    
    Chip 

when you're test riding mtn bikes, are you going to shops that are close by
to challenging trails, or do you throw the bike in the car and drive it
somewhere?

when i bought my current bike (1990 Specialized Rockhopper) i was a novice
biker and was content to just take some advice from friends and test ride it
on easy terrain near the store.  but when i finally get around to upgrading
to a better bike (every year i keep saying that it will be "next" year), i plan
on getting something roughly in the $1000-$1500 range, and i'm not about to
spend that kind of money on a bike unless i can seriously put it through its
paces first.

- rich

    If you find a shop that will let you take a brand new bike off to the
    artillery fields (especially a $1000.00+ machine) please post here.
    My guess would be it ain't gonna happen. 
    
    You'll have to find someone with the desired bike or do what I did... I
    took the bikes out of the store and looked for every conceivable
    man-made and natural obstacle I could find and attacked them. You
    can get plenty of "feel" on how the bike will perform by doing this.
    
    Granted, it isn't exactly the same, but you can simulate a lot of the 
    conditions. 
    
    Chip

    
    Like Chip said,  Shops cannot just give an expensive bike to someone
    to bring out in the woods or the mountains and bit the crap out of it.
    However when you get certain amount of experience, taking the bike out
    on some trails in the back of the store and a little hop over objects
    and stuff will give you a feel for the bike. I have switched around
    with my friends this way I have managed to try out quite a few very
    good bikes.  Also the bike shop in the parking lot at Loon mountain
    has rentals, for regular mountain bikes and preformance moutain 
    bikes, their rentals go by the day or two hours, for a preformance 
    bike (ProFlex) it is $35.00 for the whole day I don't know what the 
    rate is for two hours. In the town of Lincoln, there is also a 
    rent/demo/buy shop that has skis in the winter and bikes off season. 
    They carry Barracuda's and I don't know what else. The Loon shop is 
    limited to Trek and ProFlex.  I'm sure there are other shop too. 
    
    Shaw 

    The store in Lincoln is the Lincoln Guide Service, I believe.  I rented
    a Trek MTB there last year.  The price was reasonable although I do not
    remember now what it was.  I had heard that some of the nearby trails
    there had been closed.  For the most part the trails were faster and
    not very technical.  There was some climbing and ample opportunity to
    check out the bike.
    
    Rick

    
    Rick, the store I'm talking about is new this year! It is a small
    white building just past the mill. In winter it is called the 
    Great American Demo/buy.... there are quite a few store there that 
    rent out bikes. There are very technical steep trails both off of 
    Loon mountain ski area and the two Xcountry trails east and west. 
    The Ski and Bike Barn (or is it warehouse) in Lincoln, also carries
    KHS, one of my most favorite mtb frames ever, classic looking, light
    weight and beautiful. 
    
    BTW, for whatever its worth, this weekend, Jul 1-2 there is the 
    great American festival at Loon. With all kinds of American food
    and two live bands, Bluegrass music.  Rides up the gondola and 
    zoom down the trails. plenty of all ability mountain biking, food and 
    ice cream on top of the summit. If anyone goes up, I'm planning on
    being there this Sat. We are actually thinking of camping out by
    the old man of the mountains, unless there is a lot of rain in the 
    forecast. 
    
    Shaw

I think .17 is referring to Lincoln, MA and .18 is referring to Lincoln, NH...

    Well, I finally took the Y22 out for a beating last night. I am
    definitely in love! In fact, the ride was almost as good as sex.
    
    I was out for about an hour and half and could've stayed out for
    another 5 with no problem. My intent was to get out and do a 
    "fit" ride. You know, seat adjustment, stem, etc... i made two
    seat adjustments and then found myself hammering away!
    
    Of course, the thing is absolutely awesome on really bad descents.
    What a screamer! <- I know, more of the sex thing... :-)
    
    I found the thing was f-a-s-t, period. I was burning over climbs that
    I found difficult with my TREK 7000. The thing accelerates like my
    '71 Roadrunner with the 440 Wedge did! 
    
    I was very anxious about the grip shifters, but I think they're going
    to work out just fine. I still have to think about what I need to do
    unlike the rapid fire shifters which had pretty much gotten to be
    instinctive.
    
    I think the geometry of this bike is much more suited to me. I
    immediately felt like all the power was going to the pedals and I was
    very comfortable applying that power. I kewn I was going fast because I
    was on a trail I do regularly and was checking times at certain points.
    I was going fast with a lot less effort.
    
    Immediately after the ride I noticed how "un-tired" I was. I felt great
    and not beat up. 
    
    Needless to say, I was extremely pleased and very relieved that I had
    gone with the Y22.
    
    I'm not particularly fond of the Tioga's (pedals). I might try and find
    some old M747's. I am going to check out new 747's, but I just loved
    those old 747's.
    
    Chip   

    
    Chip,
    
    It really seems that you're gona buy this Trek Y22. I guess you have
    the M747 on your "old" bike so thats easy to change.
    I'm also in for a new bike (maybe Marin) just because I don't want to
    ride on a old bike. Sounds a bit stupid but my bike is now 3 years old
    and still riding well but sometimes you're just up to something new.
    Thats also a reason I don't marry.
    Maybe I gona try a Y22 (I love sex).
    
    Greatings,
    
    Ray

    
    
    I demoed in a real environment ;-) a couple of bikes,