Conference noted::bicycle

    Main thing is fluid/food replacement.   Besides a good pasta dinner 
    before each day, a high energy drink such as the carbo load version of
    exceed has helped me.  (however I am a diabetic and have other issues
    to contend with)  Hope your gearing is appropriate when you hit a pass
    at the 220 mile mark.  
    
    have fun...bring a masseuse
    
    steve

    I would not change your eating habits the weekend of the ride.
    You probably know that.
    
    I do the Pan-Mass Challenge and find that going 'easy' the last 10-20
    miles the 1st day (like I have a choice!) and starting out easy the next
    morning I do OK!
    
    		- Tim

In either June or July's issue of Bicycle had an article on doing double
centuries which might address some of your thoughts.

Go for it!

	Allan

    as one who has done this more than once, just remember the CAMELBAK
    slogan:  "Hydrate or Die"
    
    If you are wearing the same bike clothes both days, wash those shorts.
    Did I ever tell you how to dry synthetic chamois?  Turn on a light
    in the room, one with a shade and put the shorts inside out over the
    shade.  Turn every hour or so.  Putting them directly over the
    heater works too, sometimes also the air conditioner.
    
    ed

>     I've never done back-to-back centuries before. Obviously, we're going
>     to ride the distance, not press it. Also, we are very familiar with 
>     all the eating and drinking needs for miles like this. Tools, and
>     tubes, and... will also be well planned.
 
    I wouldn't treat back to back centuries any differently than you
    would a single century.  Eating: same.  Drinking: same (hydrate,
    hydrate, hydrate).  Tools: same.  Stretching: same.
       
>     My questions are what can we expect in the way of body reactions?
 
    It all depends on what you're riding now.  If you are doing double
    75s all summer, back to back 125s shouldn't be a quantum leap.  If 
    you are doing one ride/week, expect agony.  
    
>     What are the watchouts?
 
    In general when you exert yourself only for a single day, you can
    afford to mess up a little bit.  If you crawl home after a single
    century and are dehydrated, malnurished and have muscle spasms, it
    doesn't matter since you will be sleeping the next day.  On the
    other hand, if you are going to wake up the next day and repeat the
    whole thing, you need to take care of yourself very carefully.
    
    Probably the biggest "gotcha" is dehydration.  Be sure to drink so much
    you pee your brains out.  Do *not* stop drinking after dinner because
    you don't want to get up in the middle of the night to go to the
    bathroom.  Keep drinking!  
    
    I would also stretch a bit more than you normally would.  In particular,
    give yourself extra time in the morning to stretch on the second day as
    you will be stiff from the first day's ride.  Also, on day 2, start the
    ride out easy for the first couple of hours - let your body warm into
    things.  The mornings on that second (or third, forth...) day can
    really suck.
    
>     Any other advice?
    
    Have fun!
    
    
    				-David

    Chip,
    I'm just back from a ride which sound's like it's in this league (we'll
    write it up in EURO_RANDONNEUR sometime) but for 5 days.
    
    Everyone has there own recipe but what worked well for me was:
    
     pace - keep it gentle.  But since you'll be sleeping more than 
       usual make sure that you have enough time to get fed + do your
       washing + get enough sleep in the day.
    
     liquid - just keep those bottles filled and keep on drinking.
    
     food - I survived on lotsa bread and some coffee for breakfast. 
       pattisserie (french pastries, but no cream) fresh fruit and the
       occassional savoury (a plate of fries even) during the day (eaten on
       the road), and reasonable supper (but *not too big* since digesting it 
       gets in the way of sleeping and has been known to make me
       physically ill the next day).  If leaving from home, a plate of pasta
       for breakfast is great.  On this diet I didn't loose much weight 
       (unfortunately)
    
     training - In the 2 weeks beforehand I had done several back to back
       to back days of between 70 and 120 miles...
    
     Body reactions.  Well 3 days afterwards I'm still dozing and feel
       like eating like a pig at any occassion, but that's pretty standard.
       The key points are the transition from being seat bound to bike-bound,
       as I hinted above, your energy requirement goes way up and if you (I)
       react by just stuffing down huge amount you may find (I have found)
       that your digestive system rejects you in a rather spectacular
       fashion.
    
    I look forward to your report.
    
    Now let's see what the rest of the team say...

    
    One word of warning. Try and not change too much from what you do just
    now. Someone mentioned high energy carbo drinks. I don't have anything
    against these, but if you're not using them now, this is not the ride
    to experiment with them.
    
    Are you planning on doing each 125 mile day non-stop? If you are
    willing to stop, then you will find that you'll get more benefit by
    eating off the bike. Because you are so busy trying to breathe on the
    bike, you tend to swallow much, much quicker than you should. You don't
    get the same benefit from this. If you stop, you'll chew more on each
    mouthful and get more out of 
    
    As everyone says, drink lots. One good guide is when you go to the
    toilet, you're urine should be somehwere between straw and clear. If
    it's yellow, you're dehydrating...
    
    You admit that you are taking it easy, rather than chasing a time. Even
    so, at 125 miles you're body will be getting sore towards the end. Try
    and not just stop and die at the end of the day. For the first and last 
    few miles of each day, take the gears right down and spin. This will
    help get rid of any crap in your legs. You may find that a massage with
    your legs upright against the wall and you lying on the floor will also
    help the legs feel that little bit better the next morning.
    
    What are you planning on doing between now and then? Try and get a
    couple of centuries in between now and then. Try and do a weekend of
    two longish rides, probably around 75 miles, and that will give you a
    dry run with the convenience of spending the night at your own home so
    that you have more to help you if you have found it tough/have the
    option of cutting the Sunday short/have the option of completely
    wimping out of Sunday.... :-)
    
    Graham.

Leman-Nice: I was that (other) man

Paul Vivier "Veloccio"
"don't pedal for ego"
"eat before hungry, drink before thirsty"
"don't be afraid to stop or walk a hill"

Know yourself, don't try to ride at another's pace.

Eat anything, don't get hyped up on poser-food and poser-drink - when you are 
hungry at the top of the Galibier, you can eat or drink ANYTHING, it's just 
a question of getting it down in big enough quantities.  We had all the food 
which is (supposedly) bad for you - I made the trip and lost 2 kg.

Use earplugs to get to sleep if you have problems.

Remember you do it for fun....

    Chip,
      the (fast growing) note 83.* in MOVIES::EURO_RANDONNEUR might give
    you some insight.  I hope to add some reports of the 2 weeks I did
    before in there some time, and with a spot of luck the alternative 
    trip (the one with the plan of stopping for a beer in every pub) should 
    get a writeup too...

   Nobody has mentioned something important - to do a test ride
   with the kind of weight that will be carried on the ride itself.

   It's really annoying how much extra weight is involved when you have
   to carry change of clothes, rain gear, or other stuff that is normally
   not needed for fast training rides, and the extra weight *really*
   increases the fatigue of long rides.

   It sucks bigtime to carry all that weight, but I have found no way out
   of it for long unsupported rides...  but it's still better than
   "touring" - one weekend carrying a sleeping bag and stuff was
    enough to convince me that loaded touring was not my idea of fun.

   - Jim

    Jim, I'm sure Chip's titanium sleeping bag doesn't weigh enough to
    matter.  :-)
    
    ed

    Well, thanks a million for the inputs! Ed, nice idea... I never thought
    of simply washing out the shorts/shirt to avoid carrying the change.
    
    Funny too... I just got back from vacation and did just that to avoid
    a separate suitcase for my riding stuff...
    
    "titanium sleeping bag..." but it does have that heavy nylon zipper!
     :-)
    
     We are planning on a moderate pace (16-17mph) with maybe one stop
     for a real meal and some water. I'm not concerned about the chance
     of undertrained or some other physical restriction. Weather is what
     I want... No rain (coldness is fine and expected in early morning
     hours - especially up in the Rutland Vt area.
    
     We expect to leave early (6:30am) so we can have a decent pig-out
     early, relax, get to be early and blast off early the following
     morning...
    
     Thanks Again,
    
                   Chip

     Well, I lived! The ride was uneventful, e.g. no flats, mechanical
     failures, local-yokel encounters or wildlife attacks :-). However,
     I don't think I've ever seen so many newts (little orange salamanders)
     in my entire life. Literally thousands of the poor little devils dead
     on the side of the road. I even had to pick "parts" outa my cassette
     in Londonderry, Vt.
    
     We did cut it short and did 101 miles the first day and 100 miles the
     second day. My first back-to-back centuries (and first century[s])
     this season. We ended up in Manchester Vt. This is where the Bromley
     Ski Resort area is. I really should've trained for this ride because
     it did take a lot out of me. Still tired today. And the hills! Man oh
     man... Actually, they were mountains. Ought to set me up for Mt. Wash-
     ington. Total ride time was just a little over 12 hours. We took about
     6:09 going up (101 miles) and 6:01 (100 miles) back. 
    
     I thought we were going to shred the ride back. When we hit Keene, NH
     we had covered approximately 63 miles averaging over 20mph! We just
     blasted through Chester, Bellows Falls, Walpole, and Keene. We stopped
     in Keene for water, fruit, and a little rest. Then, at about the 180
     mile mark something happened. We just died, drained, blew, bonked,
     evaporated... I swear it took us almost 2 hours to get the last 20
     miles in! 
    
     We left in very wet conditions. The day gradually improved however and
     rode at least the l;ast half on dry pavement. No sun (good), but
     plenty of humidity (bad). When we left Saturday morning there was
     wicked, wicked fog in the mountains (Manchester Mt.). In fact,
     visibility was about 20ft. in some places. So thick in spots that
     it was like rain. 
    
     On the way out I cramped B-I-G time around 75 miles. I drank enough
     and ate enough. I just don't know. Both my quads and my ham strings
     on each side. I couldn't stretch one without locking up the other.
     Thank God they went away - No problems whatsoever on the way home.
    
     Don't want to bore you any further. In closing, I would like to
     say that I have gained new insight and enormous respect for the Ed
     Kross' and TdF riders - Eeeeeeeeeyoooooooooooooowwwweeeeee!!!!!!!!
    
     Chip 
    

    Sounds like a blast.
    
    well done !

    	Good job, Chip.
    
    	I hadn't done any riding since  before RAAM. And, I have the
    	Tiverton century coming up. So, I decide to do 50+ miles. No
    	problem until about 48 miles. My right leg wanted to cramp
    	real bad. Like Chip, I couldn't stretch it out because then
    	the other muscle (or set of muscles would cramp). Yeow!
    
    	Those last few miles were painful.
    
    	I agree with Chip. My hats off to these RAAM and stage race
    	riders.
    
    	Scott

    I just came back from the MS 150. We did 100 miles on Saturday (from
    Concord to Waterville Valley with an extra 25 loop) and 75 on Sunday
    from th valley to Concord. 
    
    I really didn't train as well as I should have with my longest of the
    year being a 50 miler the week previously. I expected to be thoroughly
    beaten and very sore. 
    
    The thing that made a significant differnce was the Cytomax I used.
    Boy, does that stuff work great! I had about 3.5 quarts on the way up
    and 3 on the way back. Very little burn during the ride, excellent
    recovery (for a 45 year old "Big Mac" fan), and I'm really feeling good
    today. 
    
    Paul
    
    PS, Hey Justin, that "old Basso" provides a great ride!

   Are some people just unlikely to get muscle cramps?

   This may sound strange, but I have never had cramps while
   cycling, and I all too often break the rules about having enough
   to drink till my bladder bursts and so forth.  Yet I hear about
   this problem constantly.

   Even when I was a little kid, I don't recall cramps when
   swimming after eating (the big no-no!!).

   Another one I don't understand is "bloating"... what is meant
   like this?

   I do have digestive problems sometimes, and a couple times had to
   actually head into the woods and take an emergency dump during a long
   ride, where I got the runs!  Cold weather is more of a problem in this
   area since my lower gut will get "cramped" sometimes on winter rides.
   (And I don't recommend drinking a bunch of Ultra Energy for your first
   time on a 400K BMB Brevet!)

   But muscle cramps in my legs and stuff just doesn't happen.  I go pretty
   hard sometimes too if I'm with other riders or using my pulse monitor.

   - Jim

    re -1
    
    Last year I was swimming twice a week before I started taking my
    cycling a little more seriously.  I didn't swim for maybe five months,
    and cycled over 2000 miles in that time.  During a trip to the pool and
    after 15 minutes of lengths, the worst cramps I have ever had hit me. 
    I was in real pain for a few minutes.  I'm sure it was the breast
    stroke that caused it, kicking the legs into funny positions when
    the're not at all used to it.  This has also happened since, so I try
    not to spend too much time in the pool.
    
    
    Russell

    I may have had to get off my bike once or twice in 6 years.
    But only for a minute or two... These were the cramps from
    hell! Debilitating, gut-wrenching (actually leg wrenching),
    ice-pick-in-the-leg, pain! It took about a 1/2 hour for it
    to go away.
    
    I must have done something wrong that day and was being punished :-)

Like Russell (.18) I've had cramp in my legs a couple of times from
swimming, but never from cycling. This only reinforces my conviction
that I was not born to swim (swimming? just say No). Cramp is scary
pain if you're not used to it.


Rod