Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Rick the trunk mount racks will all work, just get a good qaulity 
    one, I got one for $99.00  it goes off and on withing minutes. No 
    damage to the car. just sits on it. 
    The only draw back on trunk mounts (if it matters) is I couldn't 
    find any that are lockable. I just use my ski coil pocket lock to 
    lock the bikes to the rack. 
    
    Shaw
    

    
    There are 2 other options; one is the type of rack that attached to a 
    hitch under the bumper - the rack then extends straight up on a rigid
    pole and holds 2-3 bikes; the other is fairly new - it has a steel
    plate that that mounts behind your license plate and the rack attaches
    to a single point at the base of the license plate. Both are available
    mail order. If you're interested, I can look them up in the catalogs at
    home.
    
    Mike

    neither one of those sounds very sturdy.
    
    ed

    Could you possibly give me some catalog companies phone numbers so that
    I can get on their mailing lists?? I am so new to serious bicycling
    that the mail order companies haven't figured it out yet. Thanks,
    Jonathan.

    	BIKE NASHBAR 1-800-345-BIKE

    
    re: .3 
    	A thick steel faceplate and 2" diameter steel steel upright support 
    attached to a class 1 hitch doesn't "sound very sturdy" to you?
    ohhhkay.. go for the boralyn titanium one welded to the frame :^)
    
    
    	catalog ...Performance Bicycles 1-800-727-2453 (PBS-BIKE)
    		   Colorado Cyclist 1-800-688-8600
    		   Schwab Bicycle 1-800-343-5347

	After reading about carriers in here it seemed that the roof-
    	mounted carriers with fork mounts [front tire comes off] were
    	the best ones to buy.  And for some reason I thought that they
	would be cheaper than the ones with the frame clamps.  But I was
    	wrong.  $300 still, and that's more than I wanted to spend.

	So the kid showed me a Rhode Gear Euro Shuttle, and he also had one on
	his car that I got to take a look at.  It's a rear mount, but not a
	trunk mount per se.  It's a padded metal/plastic contraption that rests
	between the rear window and trunk area and is set up like a roof rack,
	so the bikes face forward.  It uses a fork mount, so the front wheels
	do have to come off ... and I don't know if you can do that.  And
    	the fork mounts are offset, so that 2 bikes side-by-each won't rub
    	together.

	I haven't actually mounted it to the car yet, since the car is very
	dirty and I want to wash it first, but it looks like it should be OK.
	The only thing I'm wondering about is how much trust I want to put
    	into a contraption that's held onto the back of my car with only a
    	set of Nylon straps.  If I'm that uneasy after installing it, I'll
    	take it back and get a REAL roof rack.  I guess a $300 investment
    	isn't too bad considering it's holding $700+ worth of bike ... and
    	maybe twice that if I take someone else with me.
    

RE: <<< Note 2767.7 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Trouble with a capital 'T'" >>>

>	It uses a fork mount, so the front wheels
>	do have to come off ... and I don't know if you can do that.

A $700 bike surely has a quick-release skewer through the front axle to make
it a snap to take off and on the front wheel. (The bike's fork may also have
little safety bumps which prevent a loosely-skewered front wheel from falling
out. My wife's new bike did. I filed them off, since I didn't want to have to
unscrew the skewer so much each time.)

>	The only thing I'm wondering about is how much trust I want to put
>    	into a contraption that's held onto the back of my car with only a
>    	set of Nylon straps.

I bet the straps have a load rating of 1000 to 2000 pounds. Most nylon tapes
which are an inch wide or so are quite strong when new. (If they sit in the
sun forever, or get things spilled on them, their strengh drops.)
						-- Tom

    
    	Please forgive the "I don't know if the wheel comes off" line.
    	That was extracted from something I sent to someone this morning
    	who is also looking for a rack for her bikes and I told her I'd
    	take a look and see what I could find.  And I thought I had edited
    	all the irrelevant stuff out.
    
    	My front wheel does come off with a quick-release.
    
    	And maybe the straps are rated at 1-2K pounds, but how about the
    	thread that holds them together?  8^)
    

    I have a Rhode Gear Euro Shuttle thats I use on my wifes VW Passat.
    
    It works very well, as I have been up to speeds of 80-90 mph with two
    bikes on the back.  I find it to be very sturdy with no real swaying or
    scary happenings.
    
    It takes me about 5-10 minutes to put it on and about 2 minutes to
    remove it.  
    
    The only real problems are that there is no way to lock it to the car,
    so it could be stolen (this has not been a problem yet?).  There is
    also no lock for the bikes on the car, but we never leave them alone
    when the bikes are on the rack.
    
    we are usually hauling between 4-8K worth of bikes when we use the rack
    and I have no concerns about them being there.
    
    The other thing to note is that the clearence can still be an issue.  I
    cannot drive the car into the garage with the bikes on the rack.
    
    Scott

I've used a Rhode Gear cycle shuttle for transporting my bikes by car for many
years now.  It used nylon straps to hold it to the car, and the bikes mount
across the back.  I've gone on long trips (Western NY from Worcester MA) with
no problems.  I don't normally leave the rack on the car, so there is little
solar damage to the straps.

As for the strength of the stitching; it's more the stitch pattern and length
than the thread strength that matters.  The straps are stitched together with
a box-X pattern (an X with a box around it).   This is a very strong pattern for
the width of the strap.  A box-W is stronger, but requires a wider strap.  (The
seat belts in your car are most likely stiched with a box-W.)  The stitch length
used looks reasonable (I have not desired to count the number in an inch). If
the stitch length is too short, then you weaken the straps because of the number
of needle piercings.

Rich
who once was considering studying for a parachute riggers license.

    
    	I couldn't even fit a motorcycle in my garage, with all the
    	crap in there now ... so this is definitely not an issue.
    
    	8^)
    
    	My Supra has a LONG sloping rear window, and looking at the
    	position of the forward-most strap holes and the angle at which
    	the straps will be, it's hard to believe that the contraption
    	will be very secure.  I do have a pair of "Shuttle addendums"
    	[forget what they're actually called ... little plastic and
    	rubber "dumbbells" that are used to disperse the force of the
    	contraption against the inside of the rear window] so hopefully
    	that's 1 load off my mind.
    
    	Looking at the design, it would appear to work best with a car
    	with a trunk, so that the forward-most clips can be attached to
    	the forward-most trunk lip.
    
    	We'll try it tonight and see.
    

RE: <<< Note 2767.12 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Trouble with a capital 'T'" >>>
    
>    	My Supra has a LONG sloping rear window....

and

>	...force of the contraption against the inside of the rear window....

Most rack manufacturers advise against having much weight pressing on glass. (I
can't tell if your rack is laying on the car's rear window or not, but it seems
like a possibility from your description.)
						-- Tom

    Another vote for the Euro-shuttle with some watchouts.  I've used mine
    for almost 3 years without much trouble or wear on the rack.  It holds
    securely to the car given you set the rack up to fit your car.  By that
    I mean the foam bumper position and stability.
    
    I've used mine on a '93 Celica GT and a Taurus, both of which have
    curved windshields.  I've had to adjust the foam bumpers to maximize
    the lateral stability.  You can do this by taking the rack apart and
    adding or takin away the foam pads OR you can place smaller pads under
    the permanent pads to take up the space.  Either method works.. I
    usually add some foam under the pads.  You'll notice some movement
    around corners, as long as it's not too loose. ;-)  I've had times
    where mine has looked like a boat on the water and it's held at highway
    speeds+20 MPH.
    
    
    Other tips:
    	- large cable lock to go through the rack, bike and detached tires.
    	- lower the seats (or remove) as mentioned earlier.
    	- mark the position for each car.. it can vary and speed up things.
    	- keep a bag with extra foam/rubber pads and the velcro strips
    	- take an old rubber tire and cover the metal clips with pieces of 
    	  the tire.  This should minimize the chance of chipping paint.
    	- check your rear bumper for places to attach the clips.  I had to
    	  widen a couple holes on the inside of the bumper to easily attach
    	  the clips.
        - when set the rack up have a friend help you move each section. 
    	  I still have trouble with the ratcheted section, once you get
    	  this then the other is easy.
    
    As far as the rack resting on the glass.. I wouldn't worry about it. 
    The foam pads are a good 4 Inches wide and spread the weight out over
    the rear glass.  I use 4 pads for the rear window of the Taurus.